Bnei Brak, Israel – The conflict among the two opposing camps in the Viznits Hasidic community in Bnei Brak doesn’t include stealing money or ideological arguments; instead, the Hasidic way of quarreling entails “swiping” shtreimels and bartering their return.
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The shtreimel is worn without fastening, a significant factor in the latest street fights in the Viznits neighborhood. Those looking to humiliate a Hasid snatch his shterimel, forcing him to return home with a lowered head sporting on his yarmulke.
In recent weeks, the brawls between the camps have intensified, with both sides snatching each other’s shtreimels. During the peacemaking, each camp returns the other’s goods stolen in the last strife.
The barters, one of which took place two weeks ago, also include returning torn shterimels that were intentionally spoiled and torn in the heat of battle in exchange for ones in mint condition.
In each fight, the Viznits Hassids try to snatch as many shterimels off their opponents’ heads, so as to have as many bargaining chips as possible ahead of the next barter.
An entire book can be written about the background leading to these street fights in the Viznits community. When Hasidic leader Rabbi Yehoshua Moshe Hagar fell ill, a world war was ignited between his sons – the elder Yisrael and the younger Menachem Mendel – on who will succeed him.
iznits Hasidism is divided between the “Yisraelists” following Rabbi Yisrael and “Mendelists” supporting Rabbi Menachem Mendel. The walls in Kiryat Viznits are filled with defamatory posters. Rabbi Yisrael controls the synagogue and the community institutions while Rabbi Mendel reigns over the neighborhood.
Until about six weeks ago, the status quo between the two camps had the Mendelists come to pray at the central synagogue of “Torat Chaim” only on Fridays. They would stand on their seats during the tish (a Hasidic gathering of Hasidim around their Rabbi) held by the ailing Rabbi.
But then the visiting Mendelists’ seats were broken down, and the Yisraelists prevented their entrance to the synagogue. In response, the Menedlists tried to stand on the Yisraelists’ seats, waging war once again.
The recent street fights – mainly during weekends – included more than 100 participants hitting each other and trying to grab the shterimels. One brawl follows another, sending dozens of people to hospital.
The police claim they are doing their best to calm the atmosphere, but they are ill at hand, as each camp complains the police is siding with its opponent. Legal counseling has recently been applied to the case, when Attorney Moshe Meroz was approached by some Mendelists. Meroz immediately sent a letter to the Tel Aviv Police, asking them to handle the pogroms issued by the Yisarelists against the Mendalists.
In his urgent letter, Meroz claims that the Mendelists’ complaints about the pogroms are not being handled by the police. He further says that hundreds of Yisraelists attacked Rabbi Mendel and his followers, beating them mercilessly – completely overlooked by the police.
Meroz ends his letter by saying that some 20 shterimels have yet to be returned to the Mendelists, and that real danger is at hand due to the police’s continued disregard of the matter.
The police responded by saying they were well aware of the strife and is handling the case without siding with either camp. The police also claim they have arrested Hasidim from both camps after the last fight.
Mi K’amcha Yisroel…….left the fold a while ago thank the one above……
Terrible, & the father is still alive…
MP4s are assur but stealing, beating, destroying property of another yid is ok.
What a messed up people.
Agree with Anon 10:05 – what principle of Torah is being upheld here? What example is being set for children, for the non-frum? In what manner is this not Chilul Ha’Shem? Shonda, shonda.
I shandeh indeed.
But for your pesimist out there, its nothing so unheard of that 2 parties split up and a little brawl occures. Lehvdil after a yankee and red sox game worst things happen. you must keep in mind that these are 15-20 trouble makers out of a chasidus of over 5,000.00
“KI ODEM AIN TZADIK B’URETZ AHSER YASSEH TOV V’LOEH YECHTU”
what example are they setting for the FRUM and non frum it is soooooo sad to see chassidim fighting can someone explain to me why chassidim fight that this what do the chassidim have out of it? (so there rebbe wins the fight and becomes rebbe now they are degradedand disrespected in the whole world and then what????)
let’s ban shtreimlach!
what example is this showing to FRUM kids?? is chassidus all about who fighs harder to win being rebbe??
what do these chassidim have out of all the fighting can anyone explain this to us?
when your rebbe wins and becomes rebbe he has a shul he has a name now why continue fighting the other party WHY NOT JUST MOVE ON? i cant understand it can someone please explain it to me thanks in advance
It’s a wonder that their kids are going off the derech. As sais earlier, MP4 are assur and this is normal behavior? Obviously sactioned by Srul and Mendel. At least using the concept of Rebbe poruso.
B4 chasidus became a corporate LLC whichever son of a Rebbe was a talmud chochom his talmidim would stay with him & a NEW chasidus was born. But nowadays there’s 2 much Real Estate involved
maybe we should encourage another viznits sect eppis! why not we have multiple chassidim in different parts of the world with same name different rebbe. I think they can reclaim some land in viznits proper as well, and wear their streimels in the cold once again (if not snatched….)
It’s “mamesh GESHMAK” to see them fighting with each other-not with any other Chasidus or Kehila. They say real brothers are meant to fight with each other, so let them fight each other, and we’ll stand aside enjoying the Shtreimel storys & more…At least it stays between them…
Such a chillul Hashem happens over and over and over with chassidim. They should make takonos to ban Chasidus.
AHAVAS YISROEL. That is the supposed slogan of Vish-nits! But then again, it whent like this in most chassidic cults back in europe and even the litvishe would put opposing sects seforim (i.e. mussar movement seforim) in the toilet. Same old same old. Nothing new. The big guys sit pretty while the sheep mentality plain folks slug it out at own expense. Jews deserve what they get.
wow satmat, viznits i feel so proud to be a frum jew sometimes thank you for your ‘holy fight’
These episodes do not bode well for the future of
Klall Yisroel. Everything has boiled down to worshipping $$$$$$$$$$$$$. The new generation sees this and we will be lucky if we are left with any emesdige yorai shomayim yidden in a few generations. Unfortunately yiddishkeit has boiled down to a mode of dress and some customs all external – while the penimius is busy with figuring to accumulate maximum wealth $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ any way any how with utter disegard as to the consequences.
same old, same old indeed. these kind of fights go back to long before chassidus & included messira, etc. the difference is that today it’s a small world & everyone knows in an instant what’s going on all over the world…
please everyone, let’s all say a few kapitlech Tehilim daily, so that this nonsence fights should end asap. (instead of putting more wood to the fire)
we have to think & act with our heads, not with our hearts!
I have an idea Chassidim should start wearing Kutchmas. Shtrimel in the house . IN SHUL YOU WEAR A KUTSHMA. Imported kutshmas from china is only $10 no incentive to rip it of a chosids head
this is ok, but g-d forbid they should allow concerts
Anon 11:20 Said:
“Such a chillul Hashem happens over and over and over with chassidim. They should make takonos to ban Chasidus.”
Tell us you’re not biased. Last I checked Ponevezh was not immune not this kind of stuff.
To all of you who opine that this is exactly what occured years ago with sects splitting up and spats occuring. I vehemently disagree that we have a comparison here.
Until now it has never been about money. It was always an argument over ideals and principles on matters of Yiddishkeit or otherwise. Even the Satmar/Belz and the Satmar/Lubavich battles were also about principles on Yiddishkeit. The recent fights in Satmar, Bobov, Vishnitz etc. has nothing to do with ideals. It is all about money! The main contenders do not even attempt to hide it!
What prevents the contenders in Satmar, Bobov, or Vishnitz from separating and opening their own Kehilla? Why do they need to keep the same name? The answer is very simple: Money. Nothing more. Nothing less. They want the buildings. They want the assets.
It’s not even about Kovod! They will get as much Kovod – or perhaps more – if they simply separate and open their own Kehilla!
So, I ask you, why should any sane human being fight over someone else’s accumulation of wealth? What do we gain from this? If the fights were about morals and ethics, then I fully understand why you may wish to get involved and add your 2 cents. But for money? What’s the logic???
Please, I beg for an answer here. A true answer please. And please don’t try to say it’s for Kovad Hatorah etc. when the key player in this battle has no motive other than the acquisition of assets.
This story is way way exaggerated, an illustration of a whole process of snatching shtreimlech and make a deal for their return.. there were two or three instances where 10-20 people engaged in a heated dispute, so when someone threw a fist, another snatched the shtreimel instead of taking out a gun (as it would be the case in most such cases by non jews or by chilonim). it is very wrong and a big chillul hashem, but the “anti-charedi Y-Net” (source of this report) loves to blow up those smaller incidents by the frum into a bigger deal than it is, to draw a bad image.
It the olden days, the gedolim would run away from the responsibility and kavod of being the leader. He would want to just sit and learn undisturbed. He would have to be begged to take the role of rav or rebbe…what has happened to our leaders?
Total insanity…have they gone completly nuts or what? All I can say as an outsider reading this SHAME ON ALL OF YOU!!!
Maybe this is a huge Kiddush hashem?
Rabosai – when do the goyim do when they have machlokes? Look at the Sunni and Shite? They kill each other!! In India, different groups within the same sect often have bloody fights and kill each other. Catholics and Protestants in Ireland have been at it for hundreds of years with thousands dead.
Look at this and similar hasidish machlokes, they steal fur hats and run!! Rabosai, this is gevaldik. No death squads!! This is a kiddisuh hashem. Even in our worst fighting, we never hurt.
To Leider, Leider.
Im not sure if youre a chusid or not, but our history you for sure dont know. the fights btween the varios chasidc sects were in the most part for MONEY AND MONEY,
1. the schoctim issue going back to the KOSOV-KITEV fight.
2. reb meir baal hanes pushkas
3. installetains of rabbonim from diffrent sects, (BELZ – MUNKATZ)
so please dont blow things out of proprtion, its just history repeading itself, and althogh ugly, its far nicer than any other cult under the sun!!
We need to WAKEUP!!! and stop focusing on SHTUSSIM!!! our Rabonim are banning this and banning that….they should focus on AHAVAS YISRAEL!!! don’t we want to get out of this bitter galus???? Tisha B’av is comng up…
instead of banning LIPA or MP3 players… They should ban fighting… and the funny part is how can the rabonim set an example for us when they themselves are fighting with each other?
THE BAIS HAMIKDASH IS CRYING!!!!
unfortunately this is nothing new,it is universal,it is the human condition,remmember kain and hevel,joseph and his brothers,gaon of vilnah and the baal hatanyeh,sanz and rizhin
munkats and belz, belz and satmar etc.etc.etc.
To Old Monseye’er.
I am a full-fledged Chassidishe guy with a shtreimel and bekishe. I speak primarily Yiddish and my kids go to real Heimishe Chassidishe schools.
I am very intimately familiar with the ongoing fights amongst the Chassidim (and a bit about the Litvake’s as well).
You will rarely have found that the Rebbe’s were openly and unabashedly fighting about money. I must admist that I am not familiar with the Kosov-Kitex machloikes, but I would suspect that the Rebbes involved (assuming the Rebbes were indeed involved) did not openly do it for the sole sake of acquiring cash.
Try to stand aside for a moment or two and really look at what’s going on here. It’s embarrasing! Even if they were fighting for Kovod I would understand. But they are openly fighting over buildings! They don’t even pretend otherwise! And I’m not talking about the Chassidim, or Shochtim, or any other offshoot of a Chassidus. I’m talking about the Rebbe’s themselves!
There is no way you can justify this pathetic ridiculous behaviour in 2008 based on the fact that there were machloikes as well in 1808.
anon 2:11, I’m glad you know exactly what’s important and what’s not, the Rabonnim don’t know nothing, they have no priorities, you have and you know.. LOL.
I see the spin doctors are out already (anon 1:22)
Mr Leider,
Youre right about the money issue in Satmer and maybe a bit Bobov. but not so Viznitz vs Viznitz or Toldos ahron vs toldos AY.. thyre fighting who should take over their old rebbe, and should lead from his place.
how and wehre does money come into the picture??
anon 2:11, you’re so naive. Wake up, this is Yiddishkeit.
when a chasidus grows there can develop 2 different mentalities in the same chasidus which dont blend well together. this is a normal development and has happened in bobov, satmar and vishnitz. of course the 2 rebbes each represent one of the respective groups. by default there are conflicts on how to split the realestate which is needed to run mosdos. this is a very normal argument and very hard to solve especially since it is dealing with emotions and feelings. lets be real and give alittle more justice to the situation not steriotyping the argument with stupidity and nonsense as if shtraimel snatching is the name of the game. like they say “give me a break” if you want to be a jerk be one on your own. thanks for listening.
Every Chasiddus HAS to split up eventually! How can one person be Rebbe to so many Chassidim? It should be a very NORMAL process to split up. The only problem is the dirty fight that some CHEAP Chassidim carry on…. In the early days of Chassidus, one Rebbe didn’t have so many Chassidim… He had followers, but people went to other Rebbes as well and the Gabboim didn’t become hysterical…
Wouldn’t it be lovely to see two brothers, splitting up, yet staying friends… so that the chassidim can stay friends & all those families involved can stay besholom! And Moshiach can finally come?!
obviously if the split would be an accepted fact you would be right, but naturally it is not a planned split ( like after 3500 chasidim we make parralel chasidus ) therefore a it usual goes with conflict,anyone realistically and honestly examining these split will understand both parties. nonetheless I am not undermining the terrible consequences of machlokos and chillel hashem, I am just asking the readers for some understanding.
First of all since when do we take the word of the press at face value. If they didn’t blow it up way out of proportion they probably wouldn’t sell much papers. Secondly I would think that most of the Machlokes between Rebbes are the fault of the Gabboim and Mekorovim. On the pretext that they are watching for the Kovod of the Rebbe they inflame the chassidim with all kind of bloneys. And that’s a FACT.
leider leider leider…. ..in the past, the fights w. … … … were ideologic fights, about Yiddishkeit… Baloney!!! They were also fights for the sake of fighting, because the Yedei Eisav were itching [for a fight]! It was only cloaked [by the yetzer hora] in the name of Torah and Yiddishkeit!!
Now we have adults at risk? Gee wiz!
Maybe Rabbi Horowitz can open a center for these sick people?
Moshiach must be coming because this stuff is not made up!
TORAH? Chassidus VS. Yiddishkeit?
Torah im Derech ERETZ,613 MITZVOHS,that is the IKKAR!
are they just for jokes and pranks?
WHO NEEDS SHTREIMELS?
EHRLICHKEIT FIRST!
Im no chossid but this doesnt suprise me at all. You see this so called yiddishkeit has lost all direction. What is heilig is not middos but the size of ones shtreimel, must be of a certain height otherwise chollila it says I belong to a different sect. The bekeshe got to be this type and not that type, veisse zocken inside or outside, shoes with laces chollila, yarmulkah velvet or shiny full blown size or bit smaller white knitted with pom pom on the top or not.
You see all this shtussim, not to mention shtreimel and bekeshe are clothes of goyim, the cossacs no less. Look at some historical pictures of a cossack on his horse youd mistake him for a chossid were it not for his sword and intention of killing yidden.
Yidden today especially the erlicher have become “Virtual Yidden” just like everything on the internet is virtual. They dont want to work the land cholliala thats only for goyim. They dont want Beiss Hamikdash Hashlishi when you have the beis hamedrash. They dont want responsibility of governing in the land of Israel, just take the shgootzims $$$$$$$.
Many of chassidim today are fakes and their rebbes are no better. It is said in achris hayomim many from the so called frimmer will actually be from the erev rav and yes including their so called heilige rabbonim. Its all about dollars, monies, wealth, real estate, power, ego, koved nothing to do with what being a real yid is and longing for eretz yisrael and building the beis hamikdash be’yedayim. Leave it all to others including Hashem.
I predict whether you like to hear what I say or not the terrible demise of chassidim especially in New York. NY being No.1 target. No Im sorry to say chassidim today are not part of hakodosh baruch hu’s plan for am yisrael, they are mostly put themselves michootz lamachene with their narishkeit. Hashem Yeracheim.
The people will follow whomever they want to, and nobody can force them either way. The real issue is assets and money. Aaron Teitlebaum had to start from scratch in Williamsburg to build a cheder, yeshiva, and kollel. This is where the fights are really taking place.
BTW, the Divrei Chaim (Sanz) was vehemently opposed to children inheriting the father’s rabistava. He wrote against the Heilige Ruhzner for dressing his children in rebbaishe clothing. He argued that since the Baal Shem Tov, it was talmidim who took over, and they were chosen by the people. It is tragic/comedy how the biggest machlokes today are his grandchildren fighting over yerushos [Bobov, Satmar, Klausenberg]
Did any of the readers validate the story? Am yisroel kedoshim and if a tiny percentage falls through the cracks is all of viznitz to blame?
May we all merit in the Zechus of Ahavas chinum seen by all the various chesed organizations, run mostly Chassidim, to Mashiech BBA.
Raboisa we need new rules,,,,Rule # 1 a rebbi cant have kids Rule # 2 a rebbi cant have assets…the mosdos that he puts up could only be in rented building where the rebbi himself pays the rent….If the rebbi pays the rent he will think twice,,,no more owning millions worth of property
anon 9:56! how dare you call the holy of the holiest grand rabbi aron teitelbaum just by his first name aron? shame on you & all of u guys here that didn’t come out to protest this anon 9:56, if someone calls the biggest tzadik in our generation by his first name without even writing rabbi, a guy like this must be an apikores!
anon 9:56 where did the divrei chaim write against the heilige rizhiner? and if he was opposed to children inheriting the father’s rabistava, how is it that his very own children inherited his? and in any case, when was the last time (in any chasidus) where there were children, where a talmid inherited the rabistva?
You had satmar fighting like dogs now you have vishnitz fighting like dogs, you had previously bobov fighting like dogs. In each and every case, the common denominator is $$$$$$$. I am sick and tired of people preaching from podiums and pulpits but when it comes to money, they are the first ones to throw away this entire religion. These chassidic movements are getting stupid. They make the satmar rebbe and his fighting brother to be tzadikim. Give me a break. these guys went into the goyishe courts to fight it out. And these are tzadikim. NO WAY. Their only claim to fame is that they had the same last name as the true tzaddik, Yoel Teitlebaum.