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New York - Brooklyn Man Hopes Potential State Lawsuit Will Force Basic Secular Education In Chasidic Schools

Published on: November 27, 2014 10:34 AM
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FILE - Naftuli Moster, founder of Young Advocates for Fair EducationFILE - Naftuli Moster, founder of Young Advocates for Fair Education

New York - Almost 18 months after taking out a billboard to raise awareness for the lack of secular education for boys in the Chasidic community, a Brooklyn man is making plans to sue the New York State Department of Education in an effort to change the status quo.

Naftuli Moster, founder of Young Advocates for Fair Education, took out a billboard on the Prospect Expressway in June 2013, reminding parents of their biblical obligation to educate their children, as previously reported on VIN News.

Since that time, the 28 year old Moster, who grew up in Borough Park and was educated in Belz yeshivos, has taken his concerns to the New York City Board of Education, but he quickly discovered that the root of the problem lay elsewhere.

“New York City actually has very little to say about non-public schools, other than being forced to divert some funds in that direction,” Moster told VIN News.  “This is actually a common misunderstanding, thinking that if it is a Brooklyn school it must be a city matter, but it’s not. Non-public schools are actually under the state’s jurisdiction.”

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Legally non-public schools in New York City are required to provide all their students with a secular curriculum that is substantially equivalent to that of the public schools.  Moster said that he met with Department of Education officials in Albany in either 2011 or 2012 and asked them to enforce the law, but with no changes or improvements forthcoming he plans to take things to the next level.

“I want to start by informing the right people, the right parties, like the governor and the attorney general,” said Moster.

“If they can make things happen then there would be no need to move forward with litigation.  But while we pursue less confrontational methods, we will also be preparing for the event that those won’t work and are working on our case.”

Moster acknowledged that finding parents who are willing to take part in the legal action is no simple matter in the Chasidic community, where many are afraid of retribution if they take on the current system.
                     
“The people with the most standing for legal purposes are parents who have kids currently in the system, but that standing can quickly disappear if they speak out publicly because it might get their kids kicked out of school,” said Moster.

Moster hopes to include several types of plaintiffs in his law suit, including parents who prefer to remain anonymous and those who are willing to give their names, with both current students and former students being represented in the suit.

“The statute of limitation may not apply here because those who have graduated have never stopped being affected by their lack of education,” theorized Moster. “As far as the law is concerned, yesterday is when it happened.”

Moster acknowledged that while he himself may be a somewhat controversial figure, his goal is a universal one that is rooted in the Torah:  offering children a proper education to help them succeed later in life.

“This isn’t about me,” said Moster. “It is about an important issue that needs to be addressed.  We are talking about bringing in better teachers, taking things more seriously and advocating for things that were the norm 30 years ago like basic history and geography.”

Both quantity and quality are crucial when it comes to education according to Moster.

“It is about the number of hours per day, the number of subjects being taught and the number of years they are being taught for,” said Moster. “Also the attitude of the kids, the parents and the school are important as well as the competence of the teacher. I see the value of hiring rebbes for teachers but it they themselves can’t string together a sentence than they are just not qualified.”

Moster hopes that others parents will come forward to join his suit and noted that he isn’t taking aim at the yeshivas but is just advocating for students of Chasidic yeshivos.

“Only positive things can come out of improving the educational system,” said Moster.

The potential law suit was first reported last Friday by the NY Times.(http://nyti.ms/1xE1gdG)



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Read Comments (79)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Nov 27, 2014 at 10:42 AM Yaakov Says:

Hatzlacha Rabba! Hashem should give you much success! A real "Oisek b'tzarchei tzibbur".

2

 Nov 27, 2014 at 10:48 AM zooog Says:

Correction His name is NAFTALI MOSSER

3

 Nov 27, 2014 at 10:49 AM The Professor Says:

Hear, hear! It's about time. I have to deal with many of the functional illiterates who are products of certain Chassidishe yeshivahs. They are brilliant young men who are unable to read, write and speak grammatically correct, college-level English. Their primary shortcoming was their inability to marry into a rich family that would put them into a business, so they must go to college to eventually be able to support their families. It's high time that the chareidi communities took charge of their own lives, and took concrete steps against the denigration of limudei chol by their son's yeshivahs by members of the Hanhallah who most often have the same skill-set as described as in the second sentence of this thread. I challenge anyone to bring down a mekor for such instiitutionalized am-horatzes.

4

 Nov 27, 2014 at 11:05 AM chayamom Says:

Hatzlacha Raba! This is something that has bothered me for years! Kudos for taking on such a tremendous need. My son went to a chasidish (not satmar) elementary school and does not know basic math. Math is a very basic subject needed for gamara as well as for our day to day needs.

5

 Nov 27, 2014 at 11:09 AM lipa21 Says:

he doesn't know what he's talking about. I studied in Chassidic Yeshivos and Mesiftas, graduated Elementary and HIGH SCHOOL from this Yeshiva & Mesifta, even took some NY State Regents exams along with many other students from this Yeshiva/Mesifta. We all got great marks - between 95 - 100. I worked in Wall Street firms for the entire time of my career in upper management jobs. B"H that I got a great education in my CHASSIDIC YESHIVA & MESIFTA.

6

 Nov 27, 2014 at 11:15 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
zooog Says:

Correction His name is NAFTALI MOSSER

1. He has zero issur of mesira. Your allegation is foolish and primitive. Go learn a little.
2. His challenge is the State.
3. You are free to disagree. That's one of the benefits of having a comment section on VIN. However, your name calling that implies personal judgment of hiim is actually an issur. Study the Chofetz Chaim a little.
4. We, the innocent public, have been abused by you and your ilk who know nothing about the issurim of mesira or arkaos. Yet, the inflammatory and accusatory statements fly. You should be embarrassed. Most situations labeled as mesira or arkaos by the ignorant public have no connection with either of these two serious issurim.
5. Lastly, there have been well meaning efforts by several to bring decent education to our yeshivos. Our graduates have no reading or writing skills. They may not need to go to college, but they certainly need to learn how to interact with the outside world. If we leave our kids excelling in ignorance, we have failed the instruction of Chazal to teach our children a trade so that they can become baalei parnosoh. Have you a better way to insure this, or are you trashing holy words of Chazal?

7

 Nov 27, 2014 at 11:24 AM brooklynyid Says:

Reply to #3  
The Professor Says:

Hear, hear! It's about time. I have to deal with many of the functional illiterates who are products of certain Chassidishe yeshivahs. They are brilliant young men who are unable to read, write and speak grammatically correct, college-level English. Their primary shortcoming was their inability to marry into a rich family that would put them into a business, so they must go to college to eventually be able to support their families. It's high time that the chareidi communities took charge of their own lives, and took concrete steps against the denigration of limudei chol by their son's yeshivahs by members of the Hanhallah who most often have the same skill-set as described as in the second sentence of this thread. I challenge anyone to bring down a mekor for such instiitutionalized am-horatzes.

hello, all those big business i.e. RE developers, plastic factories, major distributors, retailers, online merchants, many of them from the chassidic community, who were educated in belz, satmar, bobev,

so what exactly are u talking about so called professor?

8

 Nov 27, 2014 at 11:15 AM Sholi-Katz Says:

Naftuli, you are a tzaddik. One thing I could never understand, why don't the Chassidisa Yeshivas get normal speaking English teachers for their children. Why do the children have to grow up, here in America, speaking broken English with a heavy accent. We live her in a country of chesed, why is it wrong to learn to speak a normal clear English. I know of a Chassidisa Rov that can indeed speak a good and proper English, but when he gives a drosha he uses the Yiddish/English accent. Does he assume, it is something wrong to speak a proper English and that his status will somehow be diminished? In Europe all the frum Yidden spoke a proper Hungarian or Rumanian, but here in America , Oh NO , you are somehow not so frum if you speak a proper English. Why sound like a moron when you have to go out deal with the world? What is wrong to say "wait for me" instead of saying "vayt me".

9

 Nov 27, 2014 at 11:30 AM cholent Says:

Breaking news!!
There are fabulous large out of town communities that have all the infrastructure necessary for a Torah life. There are mikvaos, kosher food and most of all.......... phenomenal day schools!!!
I grew up in Brooklyn and attended a chassidishe school. I moved oot, and my children attend the local day school. Their English reading and writing skills, math skills and general science and world knowledge is far superior to their (very nice) cousins in NY and NJ. And NO, their Torah learning is NOT compromised. The learn less hours a day but the average 8th grade graduate attends many top flight yeshivos in the NY/NJ/MD area and they don't just do well, but they thrive!
Don't fight the system. Move oot.
Gotta run. My turkey will burn. Lol.

10

 Nov 27, 2014 at 11:35 AM yossi Says:

Reply to #5  
lipa21 Says:

he doesn't know what he's talking about. I studied in Chassidic Yeshivos and Mesiftas, graduated Elementary and HIGH SCHOOL from this Yeshiva & Mesifta, even took some NY State Regents exams along with many other students from this Yeshiva/Mesifta. We all got great marks - between 95 - 100. I worked in Wall Street firms for the entire time of my career in upper management jobs. B"H that I got a great education in my CHASSIDIC YESHIVA & MESIFTA.

Lipa that is not true. You could never have worked at wall street firms writing things like " I worked in Wall Street firms for the entire time of my career in upper management jobs" You would not have survived very long. Also it is not true that you all got 95-100 on regents. I was once privileged to teach high school secular subjects in a chasiddic school in BP and I know exactly how the children did. Please do not make up stories.

11

 Nov 27, 2014 at 11:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Lipa 21,
You either were in a chassidsha yeshiva a long time ago or you were not in a fully chasidsh yeshiva rather more like a hiemish yeshiva like Novominsk. Facts are the chasidisha yeshivas do not teach english in High school. Thats a verifible fact. You may argue so what you'll catch up later when in college. Thats a rareity and a tough thing to do. Perhaps you did that as you do sound like a bright guy but I don't think the masses can do that.
Brooklyn yid,
Those are the few lucky ones that struck it rich. The majorty need to be provided with the skill set taht will enable them to succeed as middle class income earners in areas such as accounting, nursing, lawyers etc..
More generally, If all these kids were learning torah bhasmada a whole day you can make a counter argurment. But come on most of these ninth graders don't have zitz fliesh to learn gemara a whole day. So why not teach them some light math, history etc.. rather than having them kreitz in the mikva till 11 in the morning.

12

 Nov 27, 2014 at 11:49 AM Frish Says:

I admire your courage and hope u succeed.
But one thing I warn you! Mk sure u are doing it purely "leshem shumayim" and not to undermine the torah or its institutions. Because if thats the case u will not succeed. And it would be a pity for u to fail in ur brave efforts. I reccomend u consult with competent daas torah and wish u great hatzlochah in ur endeavor.

13

 Nov 27, 2014 at 11:53 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
brooklynyid Says:

hello, all those big business i.e. RE developers, plastic factories, major distributors, retailers, online merchants, many of them from the chassidic community, who were educated in belz, satmar, bobev,

so what exactly are u talking about so called professor?

They may have been 'educated' in belz etc., but other than start their own business, or work for a business - after someone was kind enough to sponsor them for a cheap job, what can they do? Become a doctor? A lawyer? A hedge fund manager? etc etc.
Many, many chareidi go shnorring (and don't tell me it's not true). And since they mostly don't have insurance, if the head of the household dies, och in vei, they come shnorring for the orphans.
LEarn Torah AND get a good education, so you're not a burden !!!!!!!

14

 Nov 27, 2014 at 11:54 AM klal gadol amru Says:

When someone says, "It isn't about me," IT SURE IS!!!!!!

15

 Nov 27, 2014 at 11:53 AM Ari Says:

I thought the time of non-frum Jews forcing there education and pow on us is over (in 1870). Shame on and his narrow-minded view that secular education is batter then ours. Statically, all in all, our children are much batter off (even Materialistically) then secular education.

We let him do what he likes, so should he and his friends let us do what we like, is that America?

16

 Nov 27, 2014 at 12:01 PM Nobody Says:

If he wants to sue anybody, it should be his parents. The parents want the lack of secular education and choose the school on that basis.

I went to public school. Let me tell you, you didn't miss anything in Belz. They don't give you an education there. But like the Maskillim in Russia, some people want to insist that Jews get full secular educations while not caring how illiterate the non-Jews are.

And the idea that this law suit isn't Mesira is laughable.

17

 Nov 27, 2014 at 12:07 PM Ari Says:

Reply to #13  
Says:

They may have been 'educated' in belz etc., but other than start their own business, or work for a business - after someone was kind enough to sponsor them for a cheap job, what can they do? Become a doctor? A lawyer? A hedge fund manager? etc etc.
Many, many chareidi go shnorring (and don't tell me it's not true). And since they mostly don't have insurance, if the head of the household dies, och in vei, they come shnorring for the orphans.
LEarn Torah AND get a good education, so you're not a burden !!!!!!!

99% of the social programs in NY are spend on people who got secular education.

Many large business in NY and elsewhere are owned by Chasidim and Yeshivisha ppl.

So what the hack are you taking about be "being a burden"?

18

 Nov 27, 2014 at 12:21 PM sighber Says:

Basic reading, writing, and math skills can be taught to elementary students. Most students in secular high schools will tell you that a lot of the coursework that they are taught are not necessary to get a good job. How many jobs use the knowledge that students gained from learning history, geography, algebra, or geometry? The most important courses that are not taught in yeshivas are gym and health. Many yeshiva students are out of shape. Many have inadequate levels of vitamin D because of being indoors most of the day. How many students know about nutrition or about various diseases, including STD's? Students need to be taught to live.

19

 Nov 27, 2014 at 12:33 PM Choice Says:

Parents have a right to choose which school to send their children to. The school is not the problem it is the parents. When will people start taking responsibility for their own actions.

20

 Nov 27, 2014 at 12:37 PM yossele Says:

As someone educated in the public school system, I can tell you that you are GROSSLY OVERESTIMATING the value of secular, public education.

22

 Nov 27, 2014 at 12:47 PM Anonymous Says:

The sad truth is that some yeshivos don't give a good Jewish education either. There is very little oversight over what teachers teach and how they teach. Some teachers don't even teach-they rely on chavrusahs. Also students are not given a chance to ask questions they may have about Yiddishkeit because if they do, they may be punished.

23

 Nov 27, 2014 at 12:51 PM on-its-head Says:

It's about time our yeshivos learned a lesson or two from our Bais Yaakov Schools. They provide an excellent education for our girls in both limudei kodesh and limudei chol - and in a lot less hours per day than the yeshivos. If I had one complaint to Mr. Moster it would be that he didn't go far enough. I think he should sue the yeshivos for child abuse - 13-14 hour school days is outrageous! 7:30 - 9:00 every day - and they can't even manage to find a little time to teach some limudei chol.

24

 Nov 27, 2014 at 12:58 PM Anonymous Says:

while he's right in everything he said about the hasidic Yeshivas not teaching secular subjects (at least enough in order to get a job and not become a ganuf).

His suing Yeshiva over this most likely will lead to the destruction of Yiddishkeit in America even in Yeshivas that teach secular subjects.

NY state law passed a few years ago mandates schools teach pro homosexuality courses. (voted on by almost every single legislator representing Jewish neighborhoods). This law has led to girls upstate being forced to ask each other to kiss.

in Belgium after that neturai karta guy sued the school system they started to go into Yeshiva with the gay curriculum.

recently in Britain they had inspector go into Beis Yaakovs and ask the girls if they knew that 2 men can get "married" this happened partly because they "discovered" that some Jewish schools are not teaching secular studies. If the liberals retake the parliament it would take a neis galuy for Jewish schools to be able to stay open and be run according to the torah.

This is coming to America if we don't fight it, but what we call "daas" "Torah" said we should support homosexuality

25

 Nov 27, 2014 at 01:12 PM CHANA1 Says:

I disagree with this. Students that come from homes where such legislation will not be supported will not be encouraged or helped by their parents regarding their schoolwork and their attitude will certainly not influence their studies positively. The Yeshiva cannot and should not be forced to put their time efforts and money to secular studies; whatever they are doing now is quiet dismal in most chassidisha mosdos and a waste of time. Options the community may want to consider is opening a separate learning or tutoring center after yeshiva hours run by qualified staff. And it should be optional--but that would be the program the govt should help fund!

26

 Nov 27, 2014 at 01:16 PM Chaim Eliezer Says:

Reply to #23  
on-its-head Says:

It's about time our yeshivos learned a lesson or two from our Bais Yaakov Schools. They provide an excellent education for our girls in both limudei kodesh and limudei chol - and in a lot less hours per day than the yeshivos. If I had one complaint to Mr. Moster it would be that he didn't go far enough. I think he should sue the yeshivos for child abuse - 13-14 hour school days is outrageous! 7:30 - 9:00 every day - and they can't even manage to find a little time to teach some limudei chol.

Our daughter got a much better education at Bais Yaakov than our boys did in mesivta. Perhaps that's because she couldn't be force-fed Gemara all day, so she became proficient in Tanach, Hebrew grammar and halacha. Why do we expect all of our boys to be expert in one particular area of learning? It's like training them all to be nothing but chess masters.

Back in the 1960s and 1970s the mainstream yeshivos such as Chaim Berlin and Torah VoDass had first-rate secular programs. Together with serious physical education, they produced many healthy, literate talmudei chachamim. Nearly all passed the Regents with honors. Some of them went on to make ArtScroll a tremendous success. Who is going to be qualified to take their place.

27

 Nov 27, 2014 at 01:18 PM Maven Says:

Even if he is right lets not get fooled by this Moster guy. He is not concerned for the well being of our dear kinderleach. The point he is trying to make is one thing only:
to defame,slander,malign and besrimch the entire orthodox community where he grew up.

28

 Nov 27, 2014 at 01:20 PM Motti_sun Says:

First and foremost we must understand that secular education as it exist in America is not the entire solution to everyone in our community magically becoming successful. How many people graduate from universities throughout the country? A lot. How many of them get jobs right away? very few... State colleges and universities are a business and their job is to take more students and keep them their longer. Less than 40% of college students finish in 4 years. Most students when they finish are in debt.

As a community we should educate our children in things that will help them be successful. English math (various levels of math) and possibly science.

Is there a problem in our community yes, but also in the general population.

For the young people that blame the chassidishe yeshiva system, well grow up and take responsibility for your own future. There are so many programs out there to help you get an education if that is what you think will make you a super star. If you are married it will be a big financial sacrifice, like kollel. No country houses, no vacations, sell your car, etc...

29

 Nov 27, 2014 at 01:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
zooog Says:

Correction His name is NAFTALI MOSSER

Are you sure it's MOSSER? I think it's MONSTER

30

 Nov 27, 2014 at 01:29 PM DOVE1 Says:

Mr Mosser .Dont know exactly what you do for a living .but I grew up in BP CHASIDISH YESHIVA.I won't say my English is perfect but so is my Peru or Russian customers, I run a nice size business BH ,

31

 Nov 27, 2014 at 01:37 PM fat36 Says:

I finished yeshiva I went to get a GED graduated masters living the good life and it was no problem. the guy is just a loser so blame everyone else. Maybe I'm wrong I don't know this guy

32

 Nov 27, 2014 at 01:38 PM Moish Says:

The real missing component in our yeshivos is giving the children a love for Torah and Simchas Hachayim. If everything is what you have to and can't do, instead of recognizing and fulfilling our true roles in serving Hashem, people will always be complaining. If we instill the love for Yiddishkeit, the faculty and students would be more enthusiastic in both Limudei Kodesh to directly fulfill our roles here, and in Limudei Chol to allow us to properly function in society. If we want change, we need to focus and adjust what people should want, not arm-twist with a lawsuit.

The goals of this lawsuit do not justify the means. A successful lawsuit may force the inclusion of secular education in mosdos hatorah, but will not yield a proper educational curriculum and program without the community thirst and respect for the knowledge. You are more likely to prevail by opening new heimishe schools that cater to chassidishe families that respect a proper education, than by forcing the education on those that resent it.

33

 Nov 27, 2014 at 01:46 PM boroparkermom Says:

Reply to #22  
Anonymous Says:

The sad truth is that some yeshivos don't give a good Jewish education either. There is very little oversight over what teachers teach and how they teach. Some teachers don't even teach-they rely on chavrusahs. Also students are not given a chance to ask questions they may have about Yiddishkeit because if they do, they may be punished.

Wth are you talking abt? Get punished for asking questions on yidishkeit?? I dont know where you went to yeshiva/school or sending your children to, but maybe start learning some emunah ..... hashkafa seforim & btw STOP blaiming yeahivas for e/t!

34

 Nov 27, 2014 at 01:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Pretty unquestionably mesira. Highly ironic that's basically his name also.

35

 Nov 27, 2014 at 02:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #29  
Anonymous Says:

Are you sure it's MOSSER? I think it's MONSTER

Do you actually know this guy, or are you proving that you know where to find some letters on the keyboard?

You're definitely not funny. Angry, maybe. What is really your issue?

36

 Nov 27, 2014 at 02:02 PM I know Says:

Yeah, he won't change a thing.
As long as the parents are ok with things the way they are, nothing will change.
And frankly, it's not his business anymore. He should have much mazel in his new community, but he should stay out of our Mosdos.
He's not trying to help us, only to help himself besmearch the Chassidic schools.

37

 Nov 27, 2014 at 01:49 PM shameonyou Says:

While the issue at hand might be a very important one that needs to be addressed but let's take a step back and see who is the one addressing the issue. I personally know Tully Moster I grew up with him. Behind the little black kippa (which he does not wear on a regular basis only for ths photo shoot) is a rotten apikoris that does believe in god let alone the Torah a while back he posted a picture if him eating pork on Yom Kippur. And is full of hatred torwards the orthodox community. Let not he be the to teach us on how to educate our kids and not be fooled that he has our community best interest in mind

39

 Nov 27, 2014 at 02:07 PM ... Says:

To those calling him names and making him out to be a bad guy, I'm wondering how you would have characterized him had he started an organization that hands out food or jobs.
That's essentially what he is doing! "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day; teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime"
But people find it convenient to smear him in order to discredit him.
Mr. Moster should be praised for his work.

40

 Nov 27, 2014 at 02:11 PM shvigger Says:

The purpose of a secular elementary school education is to get kids into high school where the goal is to get as many students into college. The secular educational system is a huge scam.

41

 Nov 27, 2014 at 03:01 PM Real Estate Man Says:

I have grown up in the established Community within Brooklyn, Chassidshe style English education, with Heimishe Teachers, similar to Satmar Bobov etc...
All I can say it - that it was perfect for what we need, we came out enough wise.

The result:

Thank God, I am a successful Real Estate Dealer, with over $200 Million value of Acquisitions within the last 24 months. Thank God my level of understanding and deal structures are very appropriate and like wise all my business associates, I am considered a principle and Directorship role, along with most of my staff who were all from the same establishment as I am.
Law Attorneys and accountants alike admire our Level of knowledge and skills, without going through and spending years in college.

The architects - Building experts - tax advisors - and all or most of the services my business uses, are companies service providers established within our communities local young professionals within this system,

To me the system is perfect but can use some uplift. To say it's a NO system,
That's a lie - as the proof is all these professional companies.

Not to mention that the Life Insurance industry - within the Heimishe Brooklyn companies are the biggest and most successful within the USA in terms of rates and value of policies.

Please join the successful jewish people...if you can't fight them....join them....
The worst case....you will have some extra $$$$$

42

 Nov 27, 2014 at 03:02 PM LebidikYankel Says:

I wonder aloud: does Mr Moster have a track record of klal work, or is this his only cause?

43

 Nov 27, 2014 at 03:04 PM hashomer Says:

It's idiotic that he's suing NY State Ed for not complying with a law that 99% of frum families don't want. Maybe he should be suing the yeshivas that get state funding but don't educate their students with a minimum of secular knowledge. And a Happy Thanksgiving to all who don't know that today is Thanksgiving in America.

44

 Nov 27, 2014 at 03:07 PM curious Says:

Reply to #15  
Ari Says:

I thought the time of non-frum Jews forcing there education and pow on us is over (in 1870). Shame on and his narrow-minded view that secular education is batter then ours. Statically, all in all, our children are much batter off (even Materialistically) then secular education.

We let him do what he likes, so should he and his friends let us do what we like, is that America?

Is that what you take away from this?
Institutionalized ignorance is what causes geneivishe shtick. The gemara says that if you don't teach your child a profession, it's as if you teach him theft. It rings so true today! There are practically no professions today for the future cation ally illiterate.

45

 Nov 27, 2014 at 03:07 PM a-simple-jew Says:

What's all the fuss about. If Mr. Moster wants a more intense English studies program for his kids, he should simply enroll them in a more modern Jewish day school. Problem solved. The Chassidishe mosdos are providing the type of chinuch that their parent body wants to have for their children. And they have every right to do so. No body is forcing Mr. Moster to send his kids to those mosdos. Let him just go elsewhere. He has free choice like anyone else. He is making a lot of trouble for nothing. Perhaps there are other motivations that are driving his campaign?

46

 Nov 27, 2014 at 03:15 PM bubii Says:

Reply to #40  
shvigger Says:

The purpose of a secular elementary school education is to get kids into high school where the goal is to get as many students into college. The secular educational system is a huge scam.

Not bigger then the yeshiva education for sure,in the secular world they educate to go out and earn a living not in the hassidishe schools,there they educate you to go out and collect sec.8 and welfare .

47

 Nov 27, 2014 at 03:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Noone says that the secular education system is at all better that our system. In fact its far worse. But noone is proposing a full day of secular education as was the case in Volozin. All we are proposing is to incorporate the advantages of the secular system in our yeshivas. There is no question that in the corporate business world one is required to have a basic understanding and knowledge of these subjects. That does not mean its our life or ideal values but its an important tool.
That being said the argument that the public school system is worse is a silly argument. Because noone is suggesting that we model thier system rather that we incorporate the advantages of the system.
Those that argue they run a business without an education. True thats possible but you won't be able to get a middle class job in the corporate world without a normal education. You can't assume that we are all capable of opening sucessfull stores.
For those invoking Czarist Russia arguments its very different in nature. Those gezaras were enacted by maskilim who wanted all jews to become enlightened and secular. Here in the USA noone is asking you to shmad just to obtain the proper skills for a job

48

 Nov 27, 2014 at 04:28 PM Anonymous Says:

You can hire private tutor any time or tutor yourself. My husband has an excellent english from listening a lot of high vocabulary English after his wedding. He has all state/ federal documents to operate his trade. So as you see, he caught up beautifully. His brother is in a different trade. Checks on Word in the computer the spelling if he has a hard word but that I do too and I went to a Bais Yaakov . My Goishe workmates do too. That brother also makes a very nice living.

49

 Nov 27, 2014 at 04:49 PM Anonymous Says:

This is the good part of a private school that they decide what to learn. Of he wants he can send his kids whenever he wants to. He should not tell me how to educate my kids.

50

 Nov 27, 2014 at 04:57 PM on-its-head Says:

Reply to #26  
Chaim Eliezer Says:

Our daughter got a much better education at Bais Yaakov than our boys did in mesivta. Perhaps that's because she couldn't be force-fed Gemara all day, so she became proficient in Tanach, Hebrew grammar and halacha. Why do we expect all of our boys to be expert in one particular area of learning? It's like training them all to be nothing but chess masters.

Back in the 1960s and 1970s the mainstream yeshivos such as Chaim Berlin and Torah VoDass had first-rate secular programs. Together with serious physical education, they produced many healthy, literate talmudei chachamim. Nearly all passed the Regents with honors. Some of them went on to make ArtScroll a tremendous success. Who is going to be qualified to take their place.

I can't praise the Bais Yaakov school system enough. It is a system that's successful in every aspect and with hashem's help it should continue to be successful. The yeshiva system, in glaring contrast, is a complete failure in every aspect. I remember when I had a hard time writing notes in yiddish for my son, I asked my husband (a chassidish yeshiva "grad") to write them instead. I was shocked to find that I, a Bais Yaakov grad, was able to write yiddish better than him.

51

 Nov 27, 2014 at 05:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #41  
Real Estate Man Says:

I have grown up in the established Community within Brooklyn, Chassidshe style English education, with Heimishe Teachers, similar to Satmar Bobov etc...
All I can say it - that it was perfect for what we need, we came out enough wise.

The result:

Thank God, I am a successful Real Estate Dealer, with over $200 Million value of Acquisitions within the last 24 months. Thank God my level of understanding and deal structures are very appropriate and like wise all my business associates, I am considered a principle and Directorship role, along with most of my staff who were all from the same establishment as I am.
Law Attorneys and accountants alike admire our Level of knowledge and skills, without going through and spending years in college.

The architects - Building experts - tax advisors - and all or most of the services my business uses, are companies service providers established within our communities local young professionals within this system,

To me the system is perfect but can use some uplift. To say it's a NO system,
That's a lie - as the proof is all these professional companies.

Not to mention that the Life Insurance industry - within the Heimishe Brooklyn companies are the biggest and most successful within the USA in terms of rates and value of policies.

Please join the successful jewish people...if you can't fight them....join them....
The worst case....you will have some extra $$$$$

Another liar. you're gods gift to the world dealing with 200 million in acquisitions but you're sitting wasting your time commenting on vosizneias.

52

 Nov 27, 2014 at 05:25 PM To Lipa Says:

Reply to #5  
lipa21 Says:

he doesn't know what he's talking about. I studied in Chassidic Yeshivos and Mesiftas, graduated Elementary and HIGH SCHOOL from this Yeshiva & Mesifta, even took some NY State Regents exams along with many other students from this Yeshiva/Mesifta. We all got great marks - between 95 - 100. I worked in Wall Street firms for the entire time of my career in upper management jobs. B"H that I got a great education in my CHASSIDIC YESHIVA & MESIFTA.

That's wonderful to hear. Which type of school did you go to?

53

 Nov 27, 2014 at 05:40 PM yechiel Says:

Reply to #41  
Real Estate Man Says:

I have grown up in the established Community within Brooklyn, Chassidshe style English education, with Heimishe Teachers, similar to Satmar Bobov etc...
All I can say it - that it was perfect for what we need, we came out enough wise.

The result:

Thank God, I am a successful Real Estate Dealer, with over $200 Million value of Acquisitions within the last 24 months. Thank God my level of understanding and deal structures are very appropriate and like wise all my business associates, I am considered a principle and Directorship role, along with most of my staff who were all from the same establishment as I am.
Law Attorneys and accountants alike admire our Level of knowledge and skills, without going through and spending years in college.

The architects - Building experts - tax advisors - and all or most of the services my business uses, are companies service providers established within our communities local young professionals within this system,

To me the system is perfect but can use some uplift. To say it's a NO system,
That's a lie - as the proof is all these professional companies.

Not to mention that the Life Insurance industry - within the Heimishe Brooklyn companies are the biggest and most successful within the USA in terms of rates and value of policies.

Please join the successful jewish people...if you can't fight them....join them....
The worst case....you will have some extra $$$$$

Please consider you point. You were not successful because you learned nothing but rather in spite of it. The fact that you were successful without an education is great but that is not the normal expectation. As any intelligent person knows the best investment you can make is in your education. Nothing else will pay off more in all likelihood on average in the long run. That from a successful business owner as well.

54

 Nov 27, 2014 at 05:56 PM Anonymous Says:

For all you know it alls I was a teacher at. Machon Leparnasah when Mr. Mosster first came to the school. He tried really hard to keep up with his classes but it was really hard for him to keep up with the basic college courses due to the 4th grade education he received in Belz. I used to mentor him and try to guide him during a very tough time for him. He is a prime example why yeshivas including Lakewood yeshivas have kids off the derech. They are so frustrated by their lack of education they completely turn off from yiddishkite.I do give credit to Mr. Moster for not giving up and continuing his education despite his hardships. Unfortunately his yiddishkite did suffer but as an educator I see more chasidim going to collect and becoming accountants and therapists. It won't be long before we see a doctor who came from such a chassidish background.

55

 Nov 27, 2014 at 06:57 PM Geulah Says:

Reply to #3  
The Professor Says:

Hear, hear! It's about time. I have to deal with many of the functional illiterates who are products of certain Chassidishe yeshivahs. They are brilliant young men who are unable to read, write and speak grammatically correct, college-level English. Their primary shortcoming was their inability to marry into a rich family that would put them into a business, so they must go to college to eventually be able to support their families. It's high time that the chareidi communities took charge of their own lives, and took concrete steps against the denigration of limudei chol by their son's yeshivahs by members of the Hanhallah who most often have the same skill-set as described as in the second sentence of this thread. I challenge anyone to bring down a mekor for such instiitutionalized am-horatzes.

The mekor is gelt, who gets it and who disburses it. Start with the nepotism that goes on in the chassidishe yeshivas and you get most of the mekor right there. Marrying into a rich family, replete with nursing homes or real estate, is no guarantee for the next generation to be able to support themselves. The denigration of everything starts with the am-horatzes in the home.

56

 Nov 27, 2014 at 07:38 PM judith Says:

Reply to #2  
zooog Says:

Correction His name is NAFTALI MOSSER

He's telling the truth to save lives.If that's moser, so be it. You can report a child abuser to the authorities/

57

 Nov 27, 2014 at 07:47 PM NITZRECH Says:

Reply to #41  
Real Estate Man Says:

I have grown up in the established Community within Brooklyn, Chassidshe style English education, with Heimishe Teachers, similar to Satmar Bobov etc...
All I can say it - that it was perfect for what we need, we came out enough wise.

The result:

Thank God, I am a successful Real Estate Dealer, with over $200 Million value of Acquisitions within the last 24 months. Thank God my level of understanding and deal structures are very appropriate and like wise all my business associates, I am considered a principle and Directorship role, along with most of my staff who were all from the same establishment as I am.
Law Attorneys and accountants alike admire our Level of knowledge and skills, without going through and spending years in college.

The architects - Building experts - tax advisors - and all or most of the services my business uses, are companies service providers established within our communities local young professionals within this system,

To me the system is perfect but can use some uplift. To say it's a NO system,
That's a lie - as the proof is all these professional companies.

Not to mention that the Life Insurance industry - within the Heimishe Brooklyn companies are the biggest and most successful within the USA in terms of rates and value of policies.

Please join the successful jewish people...if you can't fight them....join them....
The worst case....you will have some extra $$$$$

Can you borrow me some money?

58

 Nov 27, 2014 at 08:14 PM anonymous23 Says:

Reply to #41  
Real Estate Man Says:

I have grown up in the established Community within Brooklyn, Chassidshe style English education, with Heimishe Teachers, similar to Satmar Bobov etc...
All I can say it - that it was perfect for what we need, we came out enough wise.

The result:

Thank God, I am a successful Real Estate Dealer, with over $200 Million value of Acquisitions within the last 24 months. Thank God my level of understanding and deal structures are very appropriate and like wise all my business associates, I am considered a principle and Directorship role, along with most of my staff who were all from the same establishment as I am.
Law Attorneys and accountants alike admire our Level of knowledge and skills, without going through and spending years in college.

The architects - Building experts - tax advisors - and all or most of the services my business uses, are companies service providers established within our communities local young professionals within this system,

To me the system is perfect but can use some uplift. To say it's a NO system,
That's a lie - as the proof is all these professional companies.

Not to mention that the Life Insurance industry - within the Heimishe Brooklyn companies are the biggest and most successful within the USA in terms of rates and value of policies.

Please join the successful jewish people...if you can't fight them....join them....
The worst case....you will have some extra $$$$$

Is everyone in Kiryas Yoel (which was rated the poorest village in the usa and highest food stamp recepients in the USA)successful as you?

59

 Nov 27, 2014 at 08:16 PM maybe123 Says:

Guys. His cause is great but his intentions are not good......

Besides, i grew up with this systems, i see no problem with it, better is always appreciated but not to make a big deal out of it, i have 5 kids running a business b"h all with my broken English. .

This shmok is getting his 15 minutes of fame. after, he will write a book and life will move on with out him....

60

 Nov 27, 2014 at 08:54 PM Sociologist Says:

Reply to #5  
lipa21 Says:

he doesn't know what he's talking about. I studied in Chassidic Yeshivos and Mesiftas, graduated Elementary and HIGH SCHOOL from this Yeshiva & Mesifta, even took some NY State Regents exams along with many other students from this Yeshiva/Mesifta. We all got great marks - between 95 - 100. I worked in Wall Street firms for the entire time of my career in upper management jobs. B"H that I got a great education in my CHASSIDIC YESHIVA & MESIFTA.

Upper management? Surely you jest.

61

 Nov 27, 2014 at 09:59 PM jewishgirl123 Says:

While I agree that poor secular education can be debilitating for the future success of the Chassidish community, I don't like this organization's approach. I have read articles put out by Mr. Moster's wife that bash the frum community and completely seem like they have a real vendetta against the community as a whole. A better approach is to create vocational training programs for Chassidish youth and to push leaders in the Chassidish movement to adopt a more openness to education. I also know that him and his wife are no longer frum and I'm pretty sure they are Atheists too. People like this will only make us look bad, not actually help the people they claim they are trying to help!

62

 Nov 27, 2014 at 10:05 PM commonsense99 Says:

Reply to #37  
shameonyou Says:

While the issue at hand might be a very important one that needs to be addressed but let's take a step back and see who is the one addressing the issue. I personally know Tully Moster I grew up with him. Behind the little black kippa (which he does not wear on a regular basis only for ths photo shoot) is a rotten apikoris that does believe in god let alone the Torah a while back he posted a picture if him eating pork on Yom Kippur. And is full of hatred torwards the orthodox community. Let not he be the to teach us on how to educate our kids and not be fooled that he has our community best interest in mind

the man is lowlife who ditch his wife two week after they married and then went off the derech. I has a chasidisher educated i went on to college and on to a successful career. I see men in stramlech who are doctors, lawyers, paramedics, CPAs. Bankers and elected officials. shame on you Mr Moster

63

 Nov 27, 2014 at 10:29 PM Anonymous Says:

I'm a recruiter who tries to place these yeshiva graduates and they can't write a basic sentence. Not one has passed basic math. A second grader in public school knows more. Truly they will always need support from family.

64

 Nov 27, 2014 at 11:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #41  
Real Estate Man Says:

I have grown up in the established Community within Brooklyn, Chassidshe style English education, with Heimishe Teachers, similar to Satmar Bobov etc...
All I can say it - that it was perfect for what we need, we came out enough wise.

The result:

Thank God, I am a successful Real Estate Dealer, with over $200 Million value of Acquisitions within the last 24 months. Thank God my level of understanding and deal structures are very appropriate and like wise all my business associates, I am considered a principle and Directorship role, along with most of my staff who were all from the same establishment as I am.
Law Attorneys and accountants alike admire our Level of knowledge and skills, without going through and spending years in college.

The architects - Building experts - tax advisors - and all or most of the services my business uses, are companies service providers established within our communities local young professionals within this system,

To me the system is perfect but can use some uplift. To say it's a NO system,
That's a lie - as the proof is all these professional companies.

Not to mention that the Life Insurance industry - within the Heimishe Brooklyn companies are the biggest and most successful within the USA in terms of rates and value of policies.

Please join the successful jewish people...if you can't fight them....join them....
The worst case....you will have some extra $$$$$

1. For every success like you there are likely 1000's that went through your very system and will never touch your level of success
2. A likely contribution to your success is the fact that others in the heimishe community aren't well educated. If satmar or bobov would produce men by the 100's with potential to obtain MBA , Phd in engineering, degrees in architecture your kind would be a very dying breed, and no one would take your seriously without a college education.
3. Personally, I am in the health care sector and doing very well but just the other day I had a chassidishe yingerman (satmar educated) come to me and . asked me " I vant to come vith partnership vit you ,,,," just from the way he spoke that first sentence it was over I couldn't take him seriously he would not be able to present his case to investors or to other board memebers.

65

 Nov 27, 2014 at 11:42 PM COMPASSion Says:

Many of you commenters here are the best argument for improving secular studies in our yeshivas...your grammar is abominable, your spelling, when correct, is clearly by spellchecker, and the structure of your English is so poor you sound like you stepped off a boat a year ago rather than being American-born. Your grandmother spoke better Hungarian than you do English, and she was probably pretty proud of it too. Incredibly, there was a time when fluency in the language of one's country was seen as a positive thing and it wasn't that long ago either.

You may brag about your achievements in business, dubious or not, but look around you and see that for every successful businessman there are 3 or 4 heimishe men struggling to make ends meet, handicapped by their lack of education. Poverty levels hover at over half in our communities, at least. Even if 90% of men would go on to become successful businessmen, it is still unfair to the remaning 10% to deprive them of the educational basics that would enable them to seek a parnassah fairly.

Increasing numbers of heimishe men are getting college degrees, true. But they start out with distinct disadvantages, unnecessarily.

66

 Nov 27, 2014 at 11:46 PM Anonymous Says:

i don't understand why all the blame is being directed to the "chasidishe" yeshivas. In Lakewood there are no mesivtas with secular studies either. On the other hand until a few years ago chasidishe yeshivas had english as part of regular curriculum so its just the competition between mosdos thats doing this.

67

 Nov 28, 2014 at 12:15 AM Judith Says:

Reply to #65  
COMPASSion Says:

Many of you commenters here are the best argument for improving secular studies in our yeshivas...your grammar is abominable, your spelling, when correct, is clearly by spellchecker, and the structure of your English is so poor you sound like you stepped off a boat a year ago rather than being American-born. Your grandmother spoke better Hungarian than you do English, and she was probably pretty proud of it too. Incredibly, there was a time when fluency in the language of one's country was seen as a positive thing and it wasn't that long ago either.

You may brag about your achievements in business, dubious or not, but look around you and see that for every successful businessman there are 3 or 4 heimishe men struggling to make ends meet, handicapped by their lack of education. Poverty levels hover at over half in our communities, at least. Even if 90% of men would go on to become successful businessmen, it is still unfair to the remaning 10% to deprive them of the educational basics that would enable them to seek a parnassah fairly.

Increasing numbers of heimishe men are getting college degrees, true. But they start out with distinct disadvantages, unnecessarily.

Not to mention the invitation to dishonesty when a Parnassa so elusive.

68

 Nov 28, 2014 at 02:06 AM Micka Says:

Bust!
No, really that is how I feel sometimes in regard to the irrational spewing on the topic of education in Chasiddesh Mossdos . As a veteran English & General Studies Teacher and Administration employee in a Chassidesh Mossed in Boro Park, I uniquely have an insiders perspective.
The mossed want's to please parents (the majority or "powerful ones"), and will do whatever the parent body wants. The Mossed could desire to teach Shakespeare and the theory of relativity, but could only give what the parents and children want to receive. Now you'll say that parents want that their children should have the best education... Beh, that's what they say when everything is going great. The moment you carefully, and sensitively begin to discuss the possibility that the child should work harder to bring up his grades or behave himself, they all start whining, "oh you have to understand he is still a child", "it's the end of the day", "we are focusing on Yiddish", or my favorite one "you have to make it more interesting" (maybe I'll bring a Disco light and something combustable).

69

 Nov 28, 2014 at 02:19 AM Micka Says:

Continued
As long as the mentality that English studies are not important prevails, they truly are unimportant! If English is the time you take your kids shopping, to learn Limudai Kodesh (because by night he needs to play for 4 hours straight), or every fifteenth cousin wedding, you are showing your child, "Neh it's not really important". You could insist to the contrary, yet your actions speak volumes.
There doesn't have to be a competition or comparison with Limudai Kodesh. They are serious and important in their own way. We can't constantly lower are standards, because soon we will have none left. Experience has shown me that when you control your class, and make it enjoyable and rewarding, you could push standards slowly higher and higher.
In conclusion, it's a mentality that has to change by parents, followed by their children, then we have a chance to teach.
Next we'll talk about WHAT to teach and why.

70

 Nov 28, 2014 at 02:36 AM Micka Says:

Reply to #65  
COMPASSion Says:

Many of you commenters here are the best argument for improving secular studies in our yeshivas...your grammar is abominable, your spelling, when correct, is clearly by spellchecker, and the structure of your English is so poor you sound like you stepped off a boat a year ago rather than being American-born. Your grandmother spoke better Hungarian than you do English, and she was probably pretty proud of it too. Incredibly, there was a time when fluency in the language of one's country was seen as a positive thing and it wasn't that long ago either.

You may brag about your achievements in business, dubious or not, but look around you and see that for every successful businessman there are 3 or 4 heimishe men struggling to make ends meet, handicapped by their lack of education. Poverty levels hover at over half in our communities, at least. Even if 90% of men would go on to become successful businessmen, it is still unfair to the remaning 10% to deprive them of the educational basics that would enable them to seek a parnassah fairly.

Increasing numbers of heimishe men are getting college degrees, true. But they start out with distinct disadvantages, unnecessarily.

Deprived!? By whom may I ask? By their parents and them themselves. Those that "are deprived" chose to ignore the education we offered them, at least the basics that would help them latter in life. They in their immaturity rejected our offer, and now in their immaturity are looking for a scapegoat.
I see boys that work very hard every day, boys that don't have a single English book at home, yet read at the top of their class. Do you know why? Because they and their parents take it seriously. Than you have a clown that comes from a English speaking home, yet does nothing but disturb himself and the class. Fast forward ten - twelve years he is blaming the school, his teachers, his parents - everyone but himself. It is time to man up and take responsibility for one's actions.
Post Scriptum. What do you have against spell check? I am slightly dyslexic and for the world, have a difficulty with spelling in any language (I know a few). Spelling is a skill, what we teach is vocabulary there is no spell check for that...

71

 Nov 28, 2014 at 08:12 AM Judith Says:

Reply to #10  
yossi Says:

Lipa that is not true. You could never have worked at wall street firms writing things like " I worked in Wall Street firms for the entire time of my career in upper management jobs" You would not have survived very long. Also it is not true that you all got 95-100 on regents. I was once privileged to teach high school secular subjects in a chasiddic school in BP and I know exactly how the children did. Please do not make up stories.

Dottn forget, it's the teachers at the yeshivas who mark the test. They are known to inflate and even falsify results.

72

 Nov 28, 2014 at 08:16 AM rescue Says:

Reply to #26  
Chaim Eliezer Says:

Our daughter got a much better education at Bais Yaakov than our boys did in mesivta. Perhaps that's because she couldn't be force-fed Gemara all day, so she became proficient in Tanach, Hebrew grammar and halacha. Why do we expect all of our boys to be expert in one particular area of learning? It's like training them all to be nothing but chess masters.

Back in the 1960s and 1970s the mainstream yeshivos such as Chaim Berlin and Torah VoDass had first-rate secular programs. Together with serious physical education, they produced many healthy, literate talmudei chachamim. Nearly all passed the Regents with honors. Some of them went on to make ArtScroll a tremendous success. Who is going to be qualified to take their place.

Artscroll is going to continue be a success by the kids of parents who realize that a secular education is important and not rely on the schools to provide it.

73

 Nov 28, 2014 at 09:11 AM Micka Says:

Reply to #71  
Judith Says:

Dottn forget, it's the teachers at the yeshivas who mark the test. They are known to inflate and even falsify results.

That is just preposterous I don't know where you had such experience, but surely that is the outmost anomaly! I am sure that IF the story is true, this person would cheat in all business and all area of life, not necessarily as a teacher.
Now for some reason (the obvious) I feel that this story is second hand, if not pure fabrication stemming from your Mossed issues.

74

 Nov 28, 2014 at 10:17 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #41  
Real Estate Man Says:

I have grown up in the established Community within Brooklyn, Chassidshe style English education, with Heimishe Teachers, similar to Satmar Bobov etc...
All I can say it - that it was perfect for what we need, we came out enough wise.

The result:

Thank God, I am a successful Real Estate Dealer, with over $200 Million value of Acquisitions within the last 24 months. Thank God my level of understanding and deal structures are very appropriate and like wise all my business associates, I am considered a principle and Directorship role, along with most of my staff who were all from the same establishment as I am.
Law Attorneys and accountants alike admire our Level of knowledge and skills, without going through and spending years in college.

The architects - Building experts - tax advisors - and all or most of the services my business uses, are companies service providers established within our communities local young professionals within this system,

To me the system is perfect but can use some uplift. To say it's a NO system,
That's a lie - as the proof is all these professional companies.

Not to mention that the Life Insurance industry - within the Heimishe Brooklyn companies are the biggest and most successful within the USA in terms of rates and value of policies.

Please join the successful jewish people...if you can't fight them....join them....
The worst case....you will have some extra $$$$$

You genuis not a single hiemisha yid owns a life company. I am not sure what you mean "hiemisha company". Is MetLife hiemish because they made the syuim Hashas? (Oh sorry it was only their sponsored staduim nothing to do with the company) And I only know of one hiemisha that owned or sold any insurance company. Do you have any clue what goes into an insurnace company especially a life company? You are simply talking about the brokers who have zero I repeat zero koach to determine the rates. (well maybe they can play some shtick with the risk classes) but thats it. I work in the back office of an insurance company and trust me you need a high level of edfucation to do that.

75

 Nov 28, 2014 at 10:18 AM Chamor HaDor Says:

Reply to #70  
Micka Says:

Deprived!? By whom may I ask? By their parents and them themselves. Those that "are deprived" chose to ignore the education we offered them, at least the basics that would help them latter in life. They in their immaturity rejected our offer, and now in their immaturity are looking for a scapegoat.
I see boys that work very hard every day, boys that don't have a single English book at home, yet read at the top of their class. Do you know why? Because they and their parents take it seriously. Than you have a clown that comes from a English speaking home, yet does nothing but disturb himself and the class. Fast forward ten - twelve years he is blaming the school, his teachers, his parents - everyone but himself. It is time to man up and take responsibility for one's actions.
Post Scriptum. What do you have against spell check? I am slightly dyslexic and for the world, have a difficulty with spelling in any language (I know a few). Spelling is a skill, what we teach is vocabulary there is no spell check for that...

I couldn't agree more with you.

(ALL spelling mistakes herein are deliberate)

However, you're spelling and grammar our deplorible. I'm struggling to understand how you we're a vetiran teacher. And how you we're part of a administrasion in an chasidishe school. It's not a shock that the kids come out saying words like "sigzdy" and "fivdy" instead of properly annunciating "sixty" and "fifty", or phrases like "can you borrow me your pen".

You're type, who think you know it all - our the very reason that todays kids is what they are. You are the one's who make it difficult for us REAL educators - WE DON'T bend to the pressures of parents' selfishness, WE stand up in the classroom and TEACH with love, passion and sincere concern for the benefit of the student, WE look back and say "wow, I remember the begining of the year, this kid knew little and look at him today, etc....

I can go on and on...but you get the point....and NO, I did'nt use spell-check, its' natural.

76

 Nov 28, 2014 at 10:28 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
lipa21 Says:

he doesn't know what he's talking about. I studied in Chassidic Yeshivos and Mesiftas, graduated Elementary and HIGH SCHOOL from this Yeshiva & Mesifta, even took some NY State Regents exams along with many other students from this Yeshiva/Mesifta. We all got great marks - between 95 - 100. I worked in Wall Street firms for the entire time of my career in upper management jobs. B"H that I got a great education in my CHASSIDIC YESHIVA & MESIFTA.

You are either a very rare exception not tellingrthe truth.I don't know any chassidim in wall street firms and if you don't know math or English its unlikely you would be hired.

77

 Nov 28, 2014 at 10:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #41  
Real Estate Man Says:

I have grown up in the established Community within Brooklyn, Chassidshe style English education, with Heimishe Teachers, similar to Satmar Bobov etc...
All I can say it - that it was perfect for what we need, we came out enough wise.

The result:

Thank God, I am a successful Real Estate Dealer, with over $200 Million value of Acquisitions within the last 24 months. Thank God my level of understanding and deal structures are very appropriate and like wise all my business associates, I am considered a principle and Directorship role, along with most of my staff who were all from the same establishment as I am.
Law Attorneys and accountants alike admire our Level of knowledge and skills, without going through and spending years in college.

The architects - Building experts - tax advisors - and all or most of the services my business uses, are companies service providers established within our communities local young professionals within this system,

To me the system is perfect but can use some uplift. To say it's a NO system,
That's a lie - as the proof is all these professional companies.

Not to mention that the Life Insurance industry - within the Heimishe Brooklyn companies are the biggest and most successful within the USA in terms of rates and value of policies.

Please join the successful jewish people...if you can't fight them....join them....
The worst case....you will have some extra $$$$$

Just a few small pointers;
Re spelling; Whats wrong with spell check? Perhaps Vin can get a spell check for its commentors?(Although I think google chrome works with spell check)
Re proper grammer; Well yeah vhat and tree (as in 3 without the H) is wierd. At the same time though in todays modern corporate world proper grammer is not as vital as it used to be. Memo's are a rariety. E-mail correspondence, the new style of commnuication, is far from grammeticlly correct. The most important thing an in e-mail is short and precise. Many managers recieve 50 to 100 e-mails a day and have no interest and long winded grammaticlly correct e-mails. They want you to say your point in one or two sentences max. And if that takes precedence over grammer then so be it. Many use text style langauge for e-mails. My supervisor impresses this ediquite upon me on a daily basis.
As a side note I do laugh at those that say i got rich without an education. It reminds me of the story of the shammas in the pickle factory. The secular version is the Verger. You guys should read that story!

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 Nov 28, 2014 at 12:32 PM Micka Says:

Reply to #75  
Chamor HaDor Says:

I couldn't agree more with you.

(ALL spelling mistakes herein are deliberate)

However, you're spelling and grammar our deplorible. I'm struggling to understand how you we're a vetiran teacher. And how you we're part of a administrasion in an chasidishe school. It's not a shock that the kids come out saying words like "sigzdy" and "fivdy" instead of properly annunciating "sixty" and "fifty", or phrases like "can you borrow me your pen".

You're type, who think you know it all - our the very reason that todays kids is what they are. You are the one's who make it difficult for us REAL educators - WE DON'T bend to the pressures of parents' selfishness, WE stand up in the classroom and TEACH with love, passion and sincere concern for the benefit of the student, WE look back and say "wow, I remember the begining of the year, this kid knew little and look at him today, etc....

I can go on and on...but you get the point....and NO, I did'nt use spell-check, its' natural.

Interesting, I don't recall mentioning that I know it all, but I'll take it as a complement.
Furthermore, I am still a teacher, and care for the ideal of English Studies and my students with a deep and sincere love and passion. We work hard for every student's benefit and do everything to enhance the learning standard and experience. We have come a long way, but there is a way to go.
My point was in regard to Mr. Moster and his ilk that constantly bash the schools for their personal misfortune and lack of effort.
Thus I am baffled by your weird and passive-aggressive argument. Funny to see you categorize me as a "type" that is the REAL problem.
Oh, and from the gist of your reply I get the feeling those Spelling and Grammar mistakes might not be as deliberate as you would want us to believe...

79

 Nov 28, 2014 at 12:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #74  
Anonymous Says:

You genuis not a single hiemisha yid owns a life company. I am not sure what you mean "hiemisha company". Is MetLife hiemish because they made the syuim Hashas? (Oh sorry it was only their sponsored staduim nothing to do with the company) And I only know of one hiemisha that owned or sold any insurance company. Do you have any clue what goes into an insurnace company especially a life company? You are simply talking about the brokers who have zero I repeat zero koach to determine the rates. (well maybe they can play some shtick with the risk classes) but thats it. I work in the back office of an insurance company and trust me you need a high level of edfucation to do that.

Actually you the dumb one, there are no less then 25 insurance companies owned by heimishe, these include title insurance companies and PC carriers such as Amtrust and Rutgers. I am a chasidisher yingerman who started off in a carrier as a loss control engineer and worked my way up to upper management with a cheder education plus a college education with nothing in between.

80

 Nov 30, 2014 at 12:22 PM #74 Says:

Reply to #79  
Anonymous Says:

Actually you the dumb one, there are no less then 25 insurance companies owned by heimishe, these include title insurance companies and PC carriers such as Amtrust and Rutgers. I am a chasidisher yingerman who started off in a carrier as a loss control engineer and worked my way up to upper management with a cheder education plus a college education with nothing in between.

Yeah but not life insurance companies. thats impossible. You need billions of dollars in assets and a high level of education for a life company

81

 Nov 30, 2014 at 06:26 PM Balaboos Says:

Reply to #78  
Micka Says:

Interesting, I don't recall mentioning that I know it all, but I'll take it as a complement.
Furthermore, I am still a teacher, and care for the ideal of English Studies and my students with a deep and sincere love and passion. We work hard for every student's benefit and do everything to enhance the learning standard and experience. We have come a long way, but there is a way to go.
My point was in regard to Mr. Moster and his ilk that constantly bash the schools for their personal misfortune and lack of effort.
Thus I am baffled by your weird and passive-aggressive argument. Funny to see you categorize me as a "type" that is the REAL problem.
Oh, and from the gist of your reply I get the feeling those Spelling and Grammar mistakes might not be as deliberate as you would want us to believe...

Um , Rebetzen Micka, just wondering why you're on the defensive?? Is it perhaps because the first line of your silly ramble already contains a major mistake?? You take Chamor's post as a "complement"?? Oh, I meant to write compliment, sorry. LOL!! Look up the definition of the word and then present your argument about how well educated you are. Sad to hear that you're STILL educating...not a wonder that Mr. Moster wants to change the system. If this is what you're teaching today's generation...OY VEY is all I can say. Keep up your disastrous work, you're unquestionably making a difference. I don't regret for a moment having left Buda Paaaark when I did (40 years ago). Good lick to ALL your "talmidim", they'll certainly need it.

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