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New York - Stupidity Of The The BIG EVENT Concert Ban Played As Color-War By Teens In Camp. VIDEO

Published on: August 20, 2008 09:28 PM
By: Jewish Star Editorial
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New York - Proper chinuch can be all about striking just the right balance — as much about not saying the wrong things as it is about saying the right things. Above all else, it’s about teaching our children by our own good example.

Take, for example, the trumped up rabbinic ban that led the singer Lipa Schmelczer to cancel a charity concert at Madison Square Garden last February.

Many people felt the economic blackmail brought to bear on Schmelczer, and the supposed issue of secular influences in his music, made a mockery of more important matters, and reflected poorly on our leaders.

Regular readers will recall front page reporting in The Jewish Star that proved that not all the rabbinic signatories were fully aware of what they were signing — suggesting that the exercise wasn’t so much one of Da’as Torah, as supporters claimed, as it was a fraud that would tend to lessen Emunas Chachomim, and faith, in general.


Still, many people took great pains to curb their confusion, hurt and anger in front of their children for fear of doing irreparable harm to the children’s faith in Torah leaders, even as the faith of the parents was being shaken.

Now, several hundred boys will return to yeshiva in September — including to some local institutions — having learned a very dubious lesson at summer camp: that their adult role models at Camp MaNaVu  think that the “ban” was so completely ludicrous that it can be openly mocked in a roomful of children, and satirized as a color war breakout. MaNaVu, by the way, has strong ties to Yeshiva Chaim Berlin.

While they may be correct, spelling it out the way they did was, in our opinion, a terrible miscalculation.

Lipa Schmelczer himself was on stage at the camp in upstate New York last week performing a particularly secularsounding number. Suddenly, a man dressed in what was intended to pass for Charedi garb jumped up and ‘threw’ the singer off the stage, then harangued the campers about the damage secular-styled music was inflicting on their souls.

A video of the event on YouTube  [THE YOU TUBE VIDEO HAS SINCE BEEN REMOVED] shows the campers responding with cheers for Lipa, deriding the “rabbi” and singing “We Will Rock You,” an anthem performed by the band Queen.

Here is the Video

We asked two well-respected local educators for their thoughts about the incident .

“This whole ban thing is a real screwup,” said one. “I think, honestly, it goes back to the situation that we’re in — you’ve got to be careful what you’re ossuring because it’s going to come back and haunt you.”

About the ban as fodder for a color war breakout, he said, “Once you start making fun — it’s just not what you’re supposed to do as adults — is make fun of rabbonim. To make a satire of a ban, is just dangerous.”

“The response of the kids is very telling,” the other educator observed.

“It’s not that they promoted a chilul Hashem,” he said. Without knowing the intentions of the camp officials, the context in which the satire was approved, or how color war was broken out in the past, he stressed, he wasn’t prepared to judge them specifically.

Still, he said, “You can see how upset the kids are about the whole thing. I think it really exposes an underlying problem that people think these kids are dopes and can be dictated too.”

“They are very naive about how a kid thinks and how he should be educated,” he added.

One final irony: Lipa Schmelczer, who feared for his livelihood six months ago, is now the undisputed star of Jewish music, confident enough to take part in this ill-considered satire.


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Read Comments (191)  —  Post Yours »


 Aug 20, 2008 at 09:39 PM Color War Says:

In my opinion the ban was wrong and uncalled for and the COLOR WAR WAS EVEN more so WRONG in front of children.

I saw the VID on You Tube and didn't believe my eyes.


 Aug 20, 2008 at 09:49 PM ryan Says:

The rabbonim made a miscalculation. I remember and shall never forget the time my father took me 50 years ago to the yosef shpiel (separate seating)!
Although he never in his life went, he took me to Hill 24 doesn't answer (the first Israeli movie ever made about the War of independence).
While the cancellations of the Lipa concerts are questionable, the manner in how they were done was disgusting by any standard without giving the producers any chance of program review.
Equally, the schwekey concerts in Israel were set up in a proper forum and also cancelled by the short-sightedness of those involved.
Children in Jerusalem have no real outlets , especially against the severe secular influenece and of the pressures by the anti-religous Israelis. Music is very powerful binder and cohesive expression and these power hungry dictatorial turf dominators have no inkling of what their decision had on many teenagers.
I do not approve of todays movies, most TV,
and goyishe music, but the continued severe issurim (without attempts to correctly modify and accommodate proper structure of events) will lead to a complete disrespect of these Rabbonimlike this episode. The Belzer Rebbe correctly agreed to offer internet (Supervised) to his chassidim.
This is unlike the Rosh Yeshivas, Mechanchim who are the murderers of our children's chinuch by not offering adequate Math, basic Sciences and American History. All these children will rebel later in life when they are the lowest eductaed
depressed(no outlet) young adults. It's easy to say mtoornish! But at what cost. All of these so-called mechanchim will pay dearly in shomayim for their rishes on our innocent children as this event clearly is the beginning of what they caused by their smallminded overbearing attitude. Our last generation turned out b'h fine with the concerts.


 Aug 20, 2008 at 09:54 PM Anonymous Says:

I would like to know which "well-respected educator" used the word "screwup to describe it?


 Aug 20, 2008 at 10:00 PM Anonymous Says:

We're on a slipery slope.
This was a huge mistake by this camp.
I assume an innocent one. But they should've known better.
It's one thing to perhaps express one's opinion that the Rabbonim made an error in judgement (or were duped)re: the Ban. I believe that even (some of the) the Rabbonim themselves when candid admit that it was not done properly.
Rabbonim are not infallible (It does not mean that we don't have to listen to them regardless)

But MAKING CHIOZEK of the Gedolim is inexcusable
and very dangerous "Hamaligim al Divrei Chachochim ...." That camp needs to quickly come out with a major apology and ask mechilah of each and every Godol and work overtime to restore
respect of Rabonim in their campers eyes.
If they don't do this (or something substatial)
I would never send my child to that camp and encourage others to do the same. We need to stand up for Kovod Hatorah. That is not something to make fun about. We have the Goyim & Freie that are very happy to do that job.


 Aug 20, 2008 at 10:00 PM shammos assistant Says:

the whole lipa ban is a bunch of a time consuming soap opera. lipa I love u


 Aug 20, 2008 at 10:05 PM shmuel Says:

I b'h have the greatest grandchildren Hashem could give anyone. They have no TV and learn as well as doing Chesed.
But, since Lipa was outlawed by naive Rabbonim, who were out of touch with children's needs for expression of behavior (rather than the rebellion of so many of of our Youth more and more on drugs)
many kids are not as happy or expressive as before.
I loved the energy all the kids would expend on mimmmicking Lipa, Schwekey and avram Freid. It was healthy, and joyful and they are not the same.


 Aug 20, 2008 at 10:14 PM Anonymous Says:

I want to see the video.


 Aug 20, 2008 at 10:16 PM sober Says:

the quick man a vu crowd is not the most torahdik homes . in lakewood the kids all where behind the Rabonim. its how you are mechanih
ch your child that's how they will react. tha apple does not fall from the tree


 Aug 20, 2008 at 10:18 PM Benji Says:

I would like to know which “well-respected educator” used the word “screwup to describe it?

Yanky Horowitz


 Aug 20, 2008 at 10:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Was Lipa in on it?


 Aug 20, 2008 at 10:28 PM Mark Levin Says:

I think they have the wrong kids at Camp M'nuval. They dont look like Chaim Berliners.

As for the breakout.... I have mixed feelings about it. I was laughing at it, thats for sure. But at the same time, I dont know what message it sends the young minds of mush. Perhaps the "saving grace" was that is was color war breakout so the kids saw it was all fake.

It would be interesting to know what the themes are because perhaps they repaired the "error" with the themes.

All that said, I dont think it was a good idea so I will have to talk to a friend of mine who is on their staff to find out what the g'henim they were thinking.


 Aug 20, 2008 at 10:28 PM Mixed Feelings Says:

Being a Lipa fan, I think he did go a little overboard with the concert, advertizing, MSG, etc., on the other hand, these ra-bonim are excited to be included in the list (otherwise he's a nobody...)


 Aug 20, 2008 at 10:30 PM Mark Levin Says:

Oh, they were NOT singing "We Will Rock You" although that was the original song. All one has to do is LISTEN to the words and you know that wasnt it.


 Aug 20, 2008 at 10:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Unfortunately, the incident is very telling - to an extent, many people treat the gedolim like a joke; they don't take them seriously anymore.

After all, who listened to the wedding takanos six/seven years ago? Anyone? No, the weddings just got fancier and fancier. And the fact that it wasn't enforced didn't help the cause.

A few years ago, a tape was released poking fun at the indian-hair shaitel ban and the bugs in the water situation. It became a joke.

And the poorly-handled bans of Reinman, Kamenetsky, Slifkin, the encouragement of kollel for everyone, notwithstanding the tremendous cost of living, and was as the thunder-like silence at the molestation and abuse exposes -- let's call a spade a spade - it's now harder to have emunas chachamim than it's been in a long, long time.

Who's to blame? Certainly we as a people have to improve. But at the same time, as R' Shmuel Kamenetsky said about the Lipa ban, many of the above incidents could've been handled better on the rabbonims' end.


 Aug 20, 2008 at 10:46 PM clarification Says:

to anon 10 pm, the freie have a din of tinok shenishba, and regardless, it's the goyim and l'havidil the freie.

to sober, a tzadik said, that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, except when there's a big storm.


 Aug 20, 2008 at 10:48 PM Anonymous Says:

That rosh yeshiva should be removed from his post.


 Aug 20, 2008 at 10:52 PM Anonymous Says:

not to go into the details of the ban whether it was 100% justified. I'm not a ruv, therefore i can't tell a ruv what to do and what not to do.

But those critical commentators should fear for the "bizoyon talmidai chachomim", the gemoro says very harsh things on mevazei talmiday chachomim. watch your language!


 Aug 20, 2008 at 11:02 PM Anonymous Says:

ma na vu is not a chaim berlin camp the only connection (which isn't that small) is that the owner/director of manavu is Rabbi klien who is the menahel of the elementry
what happened to klal yisroel nebach!


 Aug 20, 2008 at 11:03 PM Anonymous Says:

What was with the devil horns at the breakout that is the universal signal for ROCK N ROLL


 Aug 20, 2008 at 11:06 PM destro613 Says:

remember this camp had koko there for years
If the rabonim want to gain their respect back they should come up with a signed letter saying we we duped and made a mistake, Rav moshe feinsten did they when he was duped into banning torro college


 Aug 20, 2008 at 11:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Elchonon Schwartz Rocks!!!!


 Aug 20, 2008 at 11:15 PM Concerned Yid Says:

Excellent. The rabbonim have allowed their reputation to be tarnished. They need to earn the public's trust once again.

All of the kids were cheering btw.


 Aug 20, 2008 at 11:17 PM Joseph Says:

About 30 years ago, Rabbi Shloime Klein, director of Manavu, almost expelled me from the camp for telling an off-color joke to a younger camper.

Bleeping hypocrite.


 Aug 20, 2008 at 11:18 PM Joseph Says:

>But MAKING CHIOZEK of the Gedolim is inexcusable
and very dangerous "Hamaligim al Divrei Chachochim ...." That camp needs to quickly come out with a major apology and ask mechilah of each and every Godol and work overtime to restore respect of Rabonim in their campers eyes.<

All of the above assumes that those who signed the ban are true Gedolim and Chachomim. Many would beg to differ.


 Aug 20, 2008 at 11:21 PM Joseph Says:

>After all, who listened to the wedding takanos six/seven years ago? Anyone? No, the weddings just got fancier and fancier. And the fact that it wasn't enforced didn't help the cause. <

It was a lot worse than that. The ads announcing the takana specifically stated that the signers do not not have to follow their own takana!!!


 Aug 20, 2008 at 11:22 PM Yonason Says:

A Rosh ha Yeshiva, refering really to frume Yidden b'klal, once told that "chassidim go to the Rebbe, the Rebbe doesn't advertise for chassidim." Our Gedolim earn their positions. Relatedly, we have to acknowledge that a legitimate issue of concern arises, about the Gedolim, when a pesak is rendered that so many decent, learned Yidden find troublesome.


 Aug 20, 2008 at 11:23 PM Anonymous Says:

Love it or hate it, that was a great color-war breakout (though I think the whole concept of a breakout is absurd).

Did the camp make a mistake in judgment by doing it? Perhaps. But I ask you....



 Aug 20, 2008 at 11:33 PM anonymous Says:

the mishnah in sanhedrin says Kol hamivaze talmidei chachamim ein lo chelek lolam haba. WOW


 Aug 20, 2008 at 11:45 PM Anonymous Says:

This is just so so sad. I cried my way through this sad video of pure Jewish children in a so called "Frum Camp" looking no different than a bunch of teenagers in a disco. All being led by our finest Mechanchim. "OY LANU MIYOM HADIN OY LANU MIYOM HATOCHACHA" (where there will be videos of everything we have done). Woe unto those adults who not only stood idly by, but encouraged this behavior of mocking our Rabanim and exposed our pure children to this filth.


 Aug 20, 2008 at 11:46 PM Lock & Load Says:

Dido Dido Dido... to Camp MaNaVu

I thought it was very Creative...
and the kids had a great time .....

We Normal Adults do know that that Ban on the BIG EVENT was Hypocritical....



 Aug 20, 2008 at 11:47 PM Anonymous Says:

I happen to know first hand that the camp spoke to the boys afterwards explaining that the choizek was meant for Lipa. Lipa has a long standing selationship with the camp and was willing to poke fun at himself. For others to judge MNV is another case of typical MNV bashing. They do an incredible job of giving the children a great time within the parameters of Torah. If you want to see true kavod haTorah then I suggest you visit the camp and observe the mind numbing and inspiring kavod haTorah they give to their Mara De'Asra _Rav Dovid Kviat. We are so quick to bash others. It is a shame that so many speak from jealousy.


 Aug 20, 2008 at 11:55 PM Anonymous Says:

I was there once for Maariv and watched these wonderful children escort their Rav to his bungalow. It was humbling to see true kavod haTorah with no "put ons". Yiddishe kinderlach are so precious. Why would people in this forum baskh without having any idea what happened before or after? The rest of the world speaks of kavod haTorah and take themselves so seriously. Maybe some of us should learn from these boys how to give real kavod. We all take ourselves too seriously today.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:09 AM Just the Facts... Says:

Thank you Anon 1147p for your comments. I too heard the exact same thing from someone there. I could not imagine this would be as plain as has been reported.

To Anon 1145p, if this is the only thing you have to cry over, you must be pretty good. By the way, one question for you Anon, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT GOES ON IN A DISCO???????????????

You obviously refuse to recognize that - like it or not - "jewish" music follows that of the ayno yehudim in some ways. I can honestly tell you that Lipa's songs and music do tremendous good for the youngsters of today. You probably dont beleive it but listen to anyone involved with the youngster and they will tell you.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:23 AM Anonymous Says:

You think this is a problem. These were a bunch of adorable kids enjoying a colorwar breakout. They werent making fun of anyone.. they were enjoying lipa and the "breakout show". The problem in this world isn't this....it is a going on vos iz neias and talking about people and camps and cities. Worry about yourselves. Get off the internet!!!! Dont you have anything better to do than sit and talk loshon horah all day long. Fargin other people and maybe you should go to camp and have some fun. Than you wont be busy talking about color war break outs!!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:23 AM Anonymous Says:

Firstly this is certainly not "the only thing that I have to cry over", but that does not make it any less sad.
Secondly, although I have never been to a disco myself, it doesn't take a genius to realize that the movements and sounds in this video were not picked up by going to a Rebbe's tisch or from any of our Gedolim (I'm still not sure why you are turning this into something personal, but I am mochel you in advance). And finally you might be shocked to learn that I am involved in both Kiruv and Chinuch, and quite frankly I have not seen anything "good for todays youngsters" come out of Lipa's music (& videos). Unless you are refering to the fact that it exposed our youngesters to the style of what you call "anyo yehudim" though I'm not quite sure how that is good.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:29 AM jack Says:

good pr for LIPA, I know ppl like to bash him, but he is a much bigger star since the ban, and about the camp I don't think they did anything wrong, CW is also goyish so if u want to ban lipa ban CW TOO, the whole ban is a joke just look on all the other concerts there was no ban, how come? just one answer some ppl were out there just to get lipa and that's why the ban is a joke, if they would be serious about it they would ban all the concerts, just lthis summer they had two concerts already on a boat and a 3 one coming up and no one said anything, and for all you lipa bashers I know you wanted to finish him off, but GUESS WHAT HE IS STRONGER AND MORE POPULAR THEN EVER,


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:41 AM Tina Says:

Wow - This is absolutely the most brilliant and hysterical color war break out I have ever seen. The whole BAN was a flop from A to Z so why not laugh at the joke it was / is. Great stuff - I really had a good laugh watching this. Thanks ma-na-vu - LIpa YOur great


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:48 AM Anonymous Says:

last time i heard of ma na vu is that they beat camp bei keiyta at basketball.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 01:12 AM Ryan Burn the Gedolim cards ossur Says:

I think all the geniuses commenting here would do better not to make an issue of the whole thing. The camp's directive was just to scare the "color War" breakout and not to ridicule anyone as I can see.Just provide the kids suspense and nothing else was intended on purpose.
Todays so-cALLED gEDOLIM HAVE for the most part no comprehension of the outside influences of society at large.
Recently, I have worked with people in The Williamsburgh community with an unadmitted problem of various addictions across many families. It is a result of the many meshugasim
like "shoe buckles the women should not wear."
The community is hiding everything and no communal
treatment to the problems of all these varied addictions in such a frum community.
The energy kids had as their music idols was healthy like the rebbe cards(lets asser that because they take the form of baseball and footbal Chukas Hagoy-Let's burn all th Gedolim cards like the concerts!). No one has answered the guy who wrote about the sick so-called manhigim (thruout our system here and Israel)
not teaching our children considerable math, science , english and American History and crippling our children. These sick people are now asking broke tuition paying parents to pay for stay-late classes to teach these basic skilss. This is sicker than the concerts and will cripple our kleine nishomos for the rest of their lives.
My grandchildren are top students and are 3-4 years behind their class level. Great Manhigim geniuses and u are worried about Camp Manovu or Lipa. U gutys should worrry about this great decision by these frum educators not a color War breakout!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 01:17 AM anonymous Says:

why are we bashing rabonim here. This was a very creative entertaining colorwar breakout. The kids were not making fun of the "rav" they were joining in on the ruach. I watched it on u tube and it was fabulous. Stop making problems in klal yisroel. there are enough problems as it is. Great Breakout by the way. Looks like the kids were having a blast. Usually in these things, only the staff is involved.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 01:42 AM anonymous Says:

It is high time that people see these 'bans' for what they really are.. Pure nonsense and out of touch... We have kids boozing it up in the colonies, etc.. Abuse.. and all that these 'rabbis' care about is to believe a non jew (a robber and thief) who lied to them and caused great hard in many ways. It is time that people wake up and ban the 'rabbis' and get this nation back to order.. Who is in charge anyway?


 Aug 21, 2008 at 02:20 AM Anonymous Says:

its manavu that should be banned...


 Aug 21, 2008 at 02:22 AM Anonymous Says:

anyone remember the self-important camp kolreenah in the 70's-the same junk-and worse-went on there-no, the music was amudai shaish, but the middos and the colorwar insanity was the same-and worse.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 02:45 AM anonymous Says:

Ma-na-vu has nothing to do with Chaim Berlin. It happens to be that Rav Shlomo Klein who is the menahel of the Yeshiva Ketana and is the owner of Ma-na-vu.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 03:38 AM pupaheadcounsler Says:

the best breakout I ever heard of ,the guy who thought of the idea should sold it, Id of paid a couple of bucks,to have it done in my camp,Lipa we will rock you!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 03:42 AM LT Says:

Let there be Frum Wrestling Matches...so we can choose


 Aug 21, 2008 at 03:59 AM monsey boy Says:

I know Lipa for many years way before he became big. Lipa is a sincere genuine jew. Live and let live. If you dont like his music dont buy the CD . Stop bashing a jew just for the sake of bashing. LIPA GO ALL THE WAY ! I hope you make a concert even bigger than the big event . I'll be the first to buy tickets.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 04:22 AM yitzy Says:

Thank you camp manavu for yet another exciting moment in camping history. We love you Rabbi Klien!!!!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 07:03 AM Anonymous Says:

Thanks for letting us know that camp ma na vu is actually camp "lo na vo"!

It's a tremendeous chillul HaShem - aren't the rabbanim suppose to teach Yirat Shamayim? What happened to our generation? They looked and danced like a bunch of Goyim with Kippot and Tziziot, r'l.

Then we wonder why so much tragedy befalls on Am Israel...

HaShem Yerachem!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 07:10 AM Anonymous Says:

to Clarification: you wrote
"to anon 10 pm, the freie have a din of tinok shenishba, and regardless, it's the goyim and l'havidil the freie".
You are 100% correct - I was not medayik - just making the point that there are enough "others" that make fun of us. - Thank you.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 07:35 AM Anonymous Says:

To Joseph from 10:00pm
"But MAKING CHIOZEK of the Gedolim is inexcusable
and very dangerous "Hamaligim al Divrei Chachochim ...." That camp needs to quickly come out with a major apology and ask mechilah of each and every Godol and work overtime to restore respect of Rabonim in their campers eyes.<

All of the above assumes that those who signed the ban are true Gedolim and Chachomim. Many would beg to differ"
I wish we had the gedolim of yesteryear and I'm sure so do the current gedolim - However we have what we have "Ain l'cho ella chochom Sh'berorcho"
(I am paraphrasing) Maybe the generation is not worthy for better. We have a duty to listen & respect and APPRECIATE that these talmedie chachomim are doing the best they can (with little compensation & much aggravation) to address the plethora of issues in our time.
Do you think it would be better if they just said they had enough and quit, Where would we be then ? (I'm sure many of them have contemplated the idea - They are harrased day & night with huge issues (& not such huge issues) Zey hoben nisht kain tog in nisht kein nacht - and then to top it all of their reward is Every chochom from the Mah Nishtanu is second guessing every decision and questioning their wisdom and right to make a decision (are you a "TRUE Godol" ?)
usually without knowing all the intricate details that went into their decision.
If we are Chas V'sholom left without gedolim because they are not interseted in being ignored and/or ridiculed it will be mayhem and you would wish to back where we are today!
The bottom line is that I think we MUST listen to our Gedolim (of today).


 Aug 21, 2008 at 07:48 AM Anonymous Says:

Not all Gedolim are created equal.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 08:10 AM DerNister Says:

Aveirah goreret avreirah


 Aug 21, 2008 at 08:28 AM europe before the war Says:

The HASKOLOH is is back


 Aug 21, 2008 at 08:31 AM Gedolim-self aggrandizement Says:

There is no doubt we need gedolim and manhigim, Unfortunately due to a shortage these days,and therefore everyone now has their own "rov".
The fact is, we do not have a cohesive group of Gedollim and (enough) Balebatim who would collectively discuss and conclude on issues for the Klal, regardless of answering everyones individual
issues or signing on every moron who shows them a
paper. That is inexcuseable!
instead of Lipa and Ma-novu they should look into our Botei Dinim which are a joke to go to today, incompetents for the most part and quite corrupt thruout the system and specifically made to make money for the bais din and toenim.
These many issues are what so-called past generation Gedolim addressed for the Klal. Other than a few in Israel, they are gone! and we are
fighting with each other because we each have individual views (which is good) but we must try to find solutions that benfit our Klal such as no one has still not adressed the murdering machanchim who have decided in Israel and here not to teach our children basic math , science , english and other skills but force parents additional chgs after school is over. They too are crippling our kinderlach! not only an innocent color war breakout unintentionally perhaps a question of not thinking things out? Which is worse?


 Aug 21, 2008 at 08:55 AM Yachtzel Says:

2 points:

1) The reason why Hashem showed Adam Harishon "dor dor v'dorshov" rather than first the manhigim & then the dor, is because according to the level of the dor, so is the level of it's manhigim. Being that klal Yisroel is a Koima Shleima, if the head was oversized in comparison to the body, the person would be a baal mum.

2) The "Heilge R"R Meilech said that right before Moshiach comes, it will be as difficult to hold our emunah as standing on the point of a sword.

Seems like Moshiach is not very far off...


 Aug 21, 2008 at 08:58 AM Anonymous Says:

To:Gedolim-self aggrandizement Says:
"the murdering machanchim who have decided in Israel and here not to teach our children basic math , science , english and other skills"
You are very bitter that's obvious.
I don't know about Israel but here in America there are choices of Yeshivas where certainly BASIC limudei chol is taught in a serious fashion. Nobody is forcing you to go to a Yeshiva where limudei chol is a joke.
It's a big world ouit there and there is a demand by parents for Yeshivas with minimal limudei chol and they are being catered to.
You have options. Don't be so bitter and don't blame the "murdering" mechanchim. May Hashem send you a yeshua for the issues troubling you.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 09:21 AM Anonymous Says:

the kids dont have options if their parents are lame followers, and they often resent they were cheated of a decent education when they are grown and its too late.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 09:29 AM Monsey Guy Says:

I did not read thru all comments, all I can say after watching the video, I am in total shock that jewish kids should have such chutspah against our esteemed rabonim, its all from the stink that the bums made back than against the rabonim without thinking al pi torah, according to the gemara anyone who is a mevaze talmid chochom is called an "apikoires" and a "megale punim batorah shelo cehalacha" (sanhedrin, chelek)
Its a shame that something like this happened, and the problem is even more that its being broadcast over the internet as this would reresent the opinion of all ehrliche yiden

We all stand behind the decision that was made from "all" respected rabonim (each jew has a respected rav that was signed on the ban)

we hope that this chilul talmidei cachomim should be condemned the way it should be al pi din torah

Just in case you don't want to have any rav that should have an opinion on public matters, declare yourself as an un-observent jew. But as long you claim to keep torah umitsvos, than part of it is to have a rav that you should respect as being a higher authourity, (not just someone who "understands" the secular world)


 Aug 21, 2008 at 09:34 AM Anonymous Says:

Anon 9:21 You make an excellent point.
I would hope that the "gedolim" (the ones signing the ban etc.) if consulted by a parent of a child would encourage them to take limudei chol seriously. I think that by and large they would. It's just that some (many) parents are frumer than the gedolim and don't need to consult with them re: limusei chol that's truly
the problem and their children suffer the consequences.
So they are not "lame followers" they are lame parents. (Don't blame the gedolim on this)


 Aug 21, 2008 at 09:45 AM camp MaNaVu's an elitist camp Says:

1st of Chiam Berlin is looking 4 any excuse 2 get rid of R'S. Klein, i hope they don't capitalize on this "non- occasion".
2nd of all after C-ind the video , Lipa wan't m'vazeh Gedolim, but that **** who wore a frock & hamburg & a fake beard & said stupidities , trying 2 mimick a "so called litvishe rosh yeshiva" (what's he doing @ a concert in camp anyway. That REALLY gives away the "breakout")----- THAT's called being m'vazeh .........
Add this 2 the reasons 2 hate Camp MaNaVu


 Aug 21, 2008 at 09:50 AM Anonymous Says:

well I think this video will save the rabbinim for the future because the problem is not the rabbnim the problem is that the rabbnim are listing to certain hot head people and fall for the pressure and sign a document before they really think it over or discuss it in real fashion and this gives a black cloud on the rabbanim and this must be a lesson to the rabbinm don’t be naive when some hot heads come to you for a signature make sure you know the facts from other sources as well


 Aug 21, 2008 at 10:03 AM yitzy Says:

To the ridiculous Monsey Guy. I happenned to have been there and there wasn't a kid in the crowd who didn't realize that this guy had a fake beard and he was clearly a fraud. Its so easy to bash when you have absolutly no facts. Btw I'm sure you adhere to the chachamim in every aspect of your life including the banning of internet usage. You really missed the boat.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 10:03 AM manavu Says:

Manavu is the best camp in the mountains. All of you are jealous that you went to camps that werent even close to being as good of a camp as Mana vu is. And for all of you arrogant yeshiva guys calling little kids not torahdik because they dont wear black pants and white shirts, YOU ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARENt torahdik. AROGANT.... YOU MAKE ME SICK


 Aug 21, 2008 at 10:28 AM Yossi Says:

"MaNaVu, by the way, has strong ties to Yeshiva Chaim Berlin."

Nothing can be further than the truth! Rabbi Klein is the elementary school principal in Chaim Berlin but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with his ownership of the camp!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 10:34 AM Anonymous Says:

All this trouble for one stupid colorwar, it's not the colorwar, that influences these children, it's the lack of respect, k'vod habrius.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 10:36 AM Hasdei Hashem Says:

What's new here?

There have always been leitzonim and leitzonus ... If you read Hassidishe seforim, you see that leitzonus comes from depression and yi'ush - the opposite of simchah. What happened at the camp was poshut wrong - no matter what the context.

On the other hand, we Yidden have a Toireh and a Shulkhan Oruch - we have to stay within the Daled Amos Shel Halokho - always. Ultimately, we have to answer to the Melekh Malkhei Hamlokhim. It's not about Rabbonim and Da'as Toireh. It's about Emunah.

In the last 10 years, we hear more about Da'as Toireh and less about the Ribbono Shel Oilem. I will turn to Da'as Toireh for my sheilos since I'm a layman, but when it comes to Derekh HaToireh, when it comes to Ehrlikhkeit and Yahadus and Tachlis, I will cling to the Ribbono Shel Oilem - He is my Rebbe - He is my Da'as Toireh. He will give us Hizuk and see us through all things if we believe in Him, if we trust in Him.

We all don't want to say it - it's the pink elephant in the room - but not every "Rabbi" is a Da'as Toireh - some are truly, but not all. Human beings are too fallible for that. So the only Eitzah is to be Duvik in the Ribbono Shel Oilem and give yourself over to him completely. He will save you from the Rah Bonim among us.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 10:40 AM Former Counselor Says:

Camp Manavu is for the rich & famous. They have different Hashkafos then us!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 10:45 AM getridofklien Says:

its about time that these "head counselor/mechanchim" be let go to pasture-I'd rather they be shochtim cows in upstate ny then schocthim kids neshomas


 Aug 21, 2008 at 10:53 AM Fartzonovitch Says:

How does "GODOLEH HADOR" sign something without knowing what they are signing. I can asure you that if they were signing a check they would know damn well will it would be going.

This shows that their signatures mean nothing. What type of leaders do we have in our generation. We have blind shepards leading blind sheap.

May Hashem have mercy on all of us.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 10:56 AM Anonymous Says:

Wow I am not so sure that these youngsters know anything about the ban. It is the adults that choose this to be their breakout. I am sure that there will be an apology from the camp if it offened anybody. I am not going to say whose right or wrong if anyone, but I can tell you that this was a grey area which the camp should of no brought up.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 11:02 AM Anonymous Says:

I would have a shred more respect for the "gedolim", if I would see them take a stand on the OBVIOUS chilul hashem, namely the Machlokes that many of the Rabonim themselves perpetuate. I'm a regular guy, and I AM on talking terms with all my brothers. How many Chasidishe Rabonim can say the same? And how many of the gedolim who signed the ban would put thier names on a "kol korei", to take a stand that dividinfg klal yisroes, pitting families against each other, simply for power, money, and ego, is DISGRACEFUL? Does the emperor really have no clothes? Or is taking a stand like that too risky, may put them in the line of fire, may hurt THEIR business, so just let it fester? But a guy who sings for a living, brings simcha to people (although we may quibble with his style and tactics, he does have some seious TALENT, we ca agree on that), the gedolim have no problem putting their manes on the line when gunning for HIS parnossa? Lesheim shamayim? please...


 Aug 21, 2008 at 11:03 AM Anonymous Says:

I enjoy when all the Baleii Battim KNOW the intentions of the Gedoli Hador. Obviosly lipa himself agreed that he withstood a nisyoan and it was well worth it. His pushiter Yid was an obvious hit! Hashem Yeracheim on our dor who does not know how to display proper kuvod for decisions made by people who are smarter than us.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 11:13 AM Anonymous Says:


This is NOT making fun and all of you SHUT UP.

Its called having fun, it was a good joke and a great breakout!!!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 11:15 AM Anonymous Says:

why is everyone acting like a Billams donkey? this was a camp breakout. no harm was intended, and i am sure that it was the thought of 2 people "fighting" that was the intention. camps have been staging fake fights for 30 years. Everyone take a deep breath and realize that this is nothing. A kis being killed in a car accident is a tragedy. A kid falling down an elevator shaft is a tragedy. This is something that was just a part of life. Move on!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 11:26 AM Anonymous Says:

i think your article is blowing this way out of proportion the camp wasnt making any fun of rabbonim or insinuating such
it actually showed both sides of the issue and of coarse the kids luv him (as well as adults)and yes there were certain parts of his act which he agreed to tone down as per the rabbonim and all is well
the rabbonim/askonim have made a point and theyre 100% right and b'h lipa as well as the tzibbur did follow the rabbonims advise which is a kiddush hashem and yes he is a role model for our children taking part in the above satire color war breakout is in no way shape or form a degragation of the rabbonim you can follow daas torah and still have fun at the same time its no stira


 Aug 21, 2008 at 11:27 AM Anonymous Says:

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand that the big event would have been the biggest international "BUM AND BUMTA CONFERENCE" in the world attracting the lowest elements from the frum and post frum community I just fret thinking what would of gone on before, during, and after the so called "BIG BUM EVENT". THE REBONIEM WERE 100% RIGHT!! As to why the vast majority of post here are pro Lipa event you got to understand that most yiras shmayim don't hang out on the net.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 11:30 AM Anonymous Says:

For some reason when we are in camp lots of things become OK to do. What are you teaching these kids? That its okay to go wild like this..


 Aug 21, 2008 at 11:34 AM AK Says:

Manavu is not a frum camp. Trust me. This is not about if the gedolim are right or wrong. They taught the children a terrible lesson. Shloime Klein should be ashamed of himself. Manavu instills terrible values in the children. Most of them grow up to hate the Torah and everything that it stands for. Strong ties to Chaim Berlin riiight...


 Aug 21, 2008 at 11:43 AM OHEV YISROEL Says:

Equally, the schwekey concerts in Israel were set up in a proper forum and also cancelled by the short-sightedness of those involved.
WRONG INFO! Schwekey and Fried performed to a standing room crowd, as does others in ISrae.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 11:50 AM Anonymous Says:

The gedolim should be ashamed of themselves, why do you ban Lipa when you know people would make leitzonus
From it, they are making a joke of the entire Chasidic system


 Aug 21, 2008 at 11:51 AM anti ak Says:

Ak you know notging about camp manavu and you should be more ashamed of the motzei shem ra you are spreading open forum for lashon hara.Camp manavu manhig ruchni is reb dovid kviat and he is consulted on every detail of camp.I'm sure he was consulted about this break out so in essence you're bashing him.I was in Chaim Berlin 15 yrs ago and Rabbi Klien is a superb mechanech who basically is the pioneer of jewish camping today.Ak you are mevazeh our Talmidei Chachomim and mechanchim


 Aug 21, 2008 at 11:51 AM Mordy Says:

Lipa is just as much to blame as the camp for participating in this mocking of the gedolim's ban of the Big Event. It's hypocritical of him as I heard him on air saying how he listened to the gedolim even though he took a huge loss. Just shameful! A cherpah and a busha!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:11 PM Babishka Says:

I do not see anything wrong with what these kids did here. They are not making fun of any rabbi, just some fake kanoye dressed up in frum costume. Believe me, they are smart enough to know the difference.

Now, years ago, my son did make fun of a very choshuver rav in a camp skit. Someone made a video and sent it to the rav. Fortunately the rav had a sense of humor, he laughed at himself and forgave my son and even made a party for him when he got engaged.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:12 PM leepah Says:

the whole ban thing from the beginning was a huge conspiracy / pr stunt to make lipa even more popular. Lipa planned from the beginning the whole concert cancellation thing


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:12 PM deepthinker Says:




 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Lipa, do a favor to Klal Yisroel's future generations and please go away.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:17 PM Hysterical Says:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA chinuch! like everyone on this message board knows about chinuch! Practice what you preach!hahahahaha what a waste of time since when did everyone get so stuck up about every little issue - with no outlet you can guarantee your children will be way worse off. Lipa Shmeltzer is a good jewish outlet for kids!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:17 PM Former Camper Says:

Once again Ma-Na-Vu rocks!
They always had teh best Breakouts!
I was there for the first few summers that they opened, what I remember most was the Color War breakouts.
R' Klien keep up the great work.
Anyone who complains obviously never went to a summer camp & experienced a great color war breakout!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:18 PM YOLIE Says:



 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:25 PM yiddishe mommy Says:

It's very appropriate to state a mamer chazal here "leitzanes achas docheh meah tochochos."- one leitzanes pushes away one hundred mussar talks.
lipa- I cant believe you did this. You're purely making a fool out of yourself!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:26 PM leah Says:

lipa rules!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:27 PM Anonymous Says:

all i can say untill the rabbinim will not stop being afraid of a few so called askanim that put the pressure for signature whatever this few donkeys want its unbelivble the peaple who go for the signatures are not das torah they are just hot heads and the rabannim sighn it and then they say well we did not know what we sighned this makes the rabbinm look unfortuly bad and they already lost so much credit in our community unfortunly so they must be very careful in th efuture what they sighn


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:27 PM Ma Na Vu Camper Says:

It is sad that people really think this was making fun of the Gedolim. This article was written with intent to cause arguments and strife to sell newspapers.
Anyone that compares the man on stage to a Gadol is the one truly making fun of our Gedolim.
It is obvious that he is a fake and even if it wasn’t he is nothing more than a Meshuga. Does anyone believe that a Gadol would really act that way?
You may have a point if he was introduced as one of our Gedolim but he wasn’t.
So please stop the hysteria.
The camp did nothing wrong. It brought a little humor and a fun evening to hundreds of kids.
They have been doing this for decades and Rabbi Klein along with the staff deserves a lot of credit.
Thank you Rabbi Klien.
A camper from the 90's


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:32 PM Anonymous Says:

well well said when peaple see so many machlokas going to courts Kehills fighting and there is no signature from any rabbnim no outcry no word about our young generation looking at the machlokas going on and every rebba is quite all of a sudden they wake up Lipa the peaple are not stupid they see this and they laugh it has no value whatsoever they make us look like fools you dont say a word about the other major problems liek child molestaion mahlokas in court throwing out buchrim from yeshiva so many serious issues going on and all they say is a problem with Lipa


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:38 PM anonymous Says:

These so called 'rabbonm' are being run by money of their 'balie baatim'.. Money clouds the eyes. If they were sincere they would not ban college, yet honor at their dinners the smart ones who went to college, got good jobs and now have money to support these schools. People, you are being blind-sighted. Who is running the show anyway? It is time to ban these 'rabbis' and get some real people in charge


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:39 PM Ryan to Ohev yisroel-correction and lemudei chol Says:

Firstly, Please be advised I did not say concert was cancelled but what went out to cancel these events. When all these kids in eretz yisroel have no outlet (at separate concerts) due to these control freak inspired decisions, and become secular and anti-religous these Rabbonimwill long be gone.
The person who wrote "the parents are against lemudei chol" is totally wrong. All the Yeshivas here and Israel's Machanchim say "we have checked with daas Torah" not to offer basic Math and english subjects. These so called "roshei Yeshiva"
always come to us professionals when they need real big funds.All the economic cripples they created with their so-called Hashkofa are being supported in many Yeshivas by College working parents who are also now hurting financially. For their money, these so-called Gedolim come to us professionals while craeting a dor of cripples.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:46 PM abi melebt Says:

did lipa know this was happening?????????????


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:50 PM Anonymous sara Says:

unfortunately we live in a world that we have to give in to general
public opinion not the das torah
a concert is a goisha minhag
certainly not a frum
to take kids and make a mockery
of rabbonim no matter if you agree or not is making fun of evry
thing our forfathers sacrificed for
these things have a long lasting effect the as you not argue with your wife in front of your kids about them


 Aug 21, 2008 at 12:56 PM former camper Says:

Guys, Take a chill pill -
its just boys having fun..the whole lipa thing was stupid- and at the end of the day rabonim who did sign on had charata as they were misinofrmed...the whole thing is stupid-
let boys be boys and have fun..
PS MaNaVu is a great camp-great staff--it could be that this was not in the best taste- but the camp cant screen every play... and its possibly occationally things can go overboard


 Aug 21, 2008 at 01:04 PM Yeddishe Nachas Says:

I have a big problem now with my sons ages 14 and 18 who now have lost faith in Our rabbunim. How do I get through to them and tell them that rabbunim also make mistakes .. and we must forgive them Even if they are wrong and Even if they don't admit that they are wrong... this whole lipa thinggy has really turned off my boys to the way they look at rabbunim.. If they see their own rebbe down the hall who they trusted for years.. now they turn away their head in discust.. please help what do I do??


 Aug 21, 2008 at 01:07 PM Tina Says:

People - I think its obvious lipa knew this was happening -


 Aug 21, 2008 at 01:31 PM spero chussid Says:

lets take a look at the ones running the camp Harav Yichel Spiro who is one of the biggest michanchim today and Harav S. Klien if they felt it was ok we must accept their decision . Harav Spiro Shlita has published amazing stories that truly inspire reader and has spoken at a number of Torah Umisorah events, i am certain he is well aware that the gedolim came out against it but felt that it was ok and im sure he has a great cheshbon in mind


 Aug 21, 2008 at 01:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Why is it that we think that goyisher niggunim are nicer than our yiddisher niggunim? Why do we think that we have to do like the goyim in our songs, dress and the way we talk? I don't listen to Lipa's tapes and my children don't have the yeitzer hara to listen either. I was in a store that played his new tape and I had to leave because it hocked in my kup. I didn't even hear the words. The music was so goyish (jazz). I was told that that is the new Lipa tape. Maybe the tapes are good for the troubled children because that is all they listen to but for our yiddishe children it could harm. It has a bad hashpuah. I was sitting in a bungalow colony when a car came in with music hocking away. I wandered what a bunch of goyim are coming to this bungalow colony when so called finer menshon came out of the car. They were playing Sweky. Why should our music be mistaken for their music? What is the beauty in it. Please explain.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 01:42 PM Hersh Says:

It's not the Rabbonim! It's the Wealthy, Arrogant, Greedy, "Askonim" who are responsible for all of this!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 01:50 PM Long-time-MaNaVu-Camper-and-Counselor Says:

I practically grew up in that camp and have only nice things to say about the program directors, learning directors, administration, etc and they absolutely follow every word of the Morah D'asra that stays with them over the summers. In my days it was Reb Tuvia Goldstein and he was consulted on every aspect of the way the camp was run.

First of all they were not chanting We Will Rock You and secondly it was obviously not indented to poke fun at the Rabanim…just to create a stir about the concert itself so kids will think there is a fight going on...and maybe one little kid who wasn't already expecting color war to be this last full week of camp would be a bit surprised or scared.

Just a typical MNV color war break out at a concert which I have seen at least 5 or 6 times over the years.

Between MBD, Avraham Fried, The Piamentas and the other singers they have had over the years etc they were always fake fights about something…

There was once a post-visiting day concert where tickets were sold to the public and they had a fight over the women’s mechitza that was setup for the parents/administration being too short and a few others which I can’t remember right now. That doesn’t mean they are disrespecting Rabanim.

I bet you most of the kids (who are mostly from the 5 towns and out of town these days) didn’t even know about the ban to begin with…

Stop blowing everything out of proportion and start worrying about the real issues that Klal Yisroel faces today.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 01:59 PM Anonymous Says:

I am sure that if Any of the Gedolim came to Camp Ma-Na-Vu the campers would give the Godol 100% kovod and not even think of the Big Event or Lipa incident. This was not to disparage the Gedolim in any way...it did pretty much make choizek of persons that have no life and start these problems.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 02:07 PM Anonymous Says:

why did you tube remove the video??


 Aug 21, 2008 at 02:14 PM ariel rab Says:

I was in camp manavu 25 yrs ago and I can honestly say that this camp has instilled torah values into thousands of yiddishe kinder. I attribute my career as a rebbi to great torah camp leaders and mechanchim such as reb tuvia and rabbi klien.Rabbi klien may you continue to enrich childrens lives with your unbeleivable personality and chinuch values.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 02:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Just btw 2 all of u, i am NOT a camper, but was @ the concert! IT was an amazing concert, and i think this whole thing is rediculis!!! All of the boys knew tht this was a color war breakout, and they all understood tht this was a joke! All of you just sitting here and bashing this innocent concert, are just 100% JEALOUS tht u wernt there in person 2 njoy the AMAZING concert!!!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 02:20 PM Anonymous Says:

G'Valt doesn't anybody have a sense of humour anymore???
I remember Rabbi Yechiel Munk AH breaking out Color War with a picture of Alfred E. Neuman In Shul!
the comments above are like those crazy muslims upset about picture of muhamed l'havdil


 Aug 21, 2008 at 02:25 PM DimDum Says:

1:34 - because they nebech don't feel a taam & a geshmak in yiddishkeit. because in their modern day secular influenced warped sechel, "it's cool". Hashem Yismor. And that's exactly why the Rabbonim came out with a ban. Trying with the best of their ability to minimize the damage.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 02:35 PM Lock & Load Says:

I wish that most of you would get a life......

This was for the kids to have fun and games.like I said before very CREATIVE,,,,
Dido`s to Camp MaNaVu

I wish I was there


 Aug 21, 2008 at 02:55 PM spero chussid Says:

Rabbi Spero is one of the greatest michanchim ask around and you will hear how many kids he has changed through inspiration....i am sure he is well aware and we should all stop questioning his cheshbonos


 Aug 21, 2008 at 02:57 PM spero chussid Says:

lets get a little bit rowdy MA NA VU!!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 03:03 PM Anonymous Says:

THIRTY YEARS AGO RABBI KLIEN ACCEPTED ME IN TO YESHIVA FROM A MIXED CLASS SCHOOL.Other principals said i did not know enough to go to their yeshivas.Today i am frum married and have children.Keep up the good work rabbi klien.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 03:05 PM rabbi ..................... Says:

u people make a big deal over such imature matters all of you grow up and move on.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 03:13 PM manavu camper Says:

I am a present manavu camper I am home for a couple of days due to a family simcha when my father mentiones the tummel I am writing this with him as we abide by the takonos internet though I feel I must write this wrong that has people in an uproar
We(campers) all knew he was a fake most of us weren't even aware of the lipa ban it was all a camp stick to make the kids think they were losing the concert we were waiting for the whole summer
The headstaff of camp are all bnei torah who stress to us about living a torahdiga life and this was just them doing their thing of finding his music to goyish
I can't believe that people are waisting their timw with such a non issue leave manavu and lipa alone and focus on our own issues that we all have
Speaking as a 16 year old I don't get it


 Aug 21, 2008 at 03:20 PM anonymous Says:

The concert ban rabbis should not be in position of power. This has gone too far - What nonsense will be banned next? Yet there are women who have idiot husbands who won't give a Get, What about the rampant cases of Abuse, Drugs.. etc; The so called 'rabbis' are silent on those and other important issues (no big ad about those). What about the 'booze' in the colonies and Catskills this summer alone? Additionally, if they were truly sorry, they would apologize just as publicly for the substantial sum of money lost because of the concert fiasco. They should be taken to bet din themselves and should be required to pay every penny lost. Folks, wake up and smell the fresh kichel! You are being duped by a fake taste of Judaism - it has become another 'ism' The concert ban rabbis have turned this year into a color war. Enough already!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 03:22 PM Lipa Says:

What is wrong with all you guys? Bored? nothing to talk about? Looking to create a story? This is mamash unbeLIPAble! Can all you "ma'ligim" find some other terrible issue to make an issue out of! You are all a bunch of rushe merusha's looking to create something out of nothing! Find something to talk about.
This was a great, fun, torah'dikeh, geshmakeh, yiddishe, shpiel by Camp MaNaVu. Sounds to me that you are all just jealous of the success of Camp MaNaVu! They have always been the premier Camp in the mountains - and this just shows why!
They run an extremely Ruchnias'dikeh filled program.
Yes, they have a 5 towns crowd, and they work tirelessly with the children to instill in them Torah and Middos.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 03:25 PM Anonymous Says:

A terriable Chilul Hashem!!!!! Somethings are not to be joked about. No matter what you think of the ban this is not the way to be mechanich children.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 03:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Enough with Lipa. People are ready to comit suicide if they hear about this stupidity.

Enough is enough. Enough with trying to make publicity out of nothing.

Leave Lipa alone. Your making Lipa BIGger than you actually want!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 03:29 PM Anonymous Says:

To yiddishe nachas,
I think the problem in our generation is -that a lot of people are rosh yeshivos and rebbeim and rabonnim because it is PC. We don't live in a generation that only people Royee (fitting) are in positions of power. If your kids don't respect their rebbeim, take them out of that yeshiva and put them in a yeshiva where you can have respect for the rebbeim. You probably have them in that yeshiva because it is a PC chosov yeshiva, try to find one where the rebbeim can be respected. And no -all the yeshivos are not the same. It probably is a problem with the yeshiva and not with your kids. "I'm K'malach Hashem -go seek torah from him." I personally learnt in a lot of yeshivos and didn't and wouldn't invite many of the rosh yeshivos to my chasunah, let alone offer them any kibbudim.
I think this whole business of kol korays should stop for the following reason:
Religious Judiasm is based on one thing - Halacha.
Everyone should have a Posek to ask if they have shailos. We all know that there are many opinions when it comes to Halacha. We should ask our own poskim what to do in life, we don't need rosh yeshivos and rabonnim brodcasting their opinion as if there can be no other opinion. Unless the kol koray is to warn the people on something that is being disguised as something mutter and really isn't. For example,: Don't eat chicken from So & so's store, it's really traif! Besides these kind of scenarios, kol korays should stop. By signing on Concert bans type of kol korays, they are causing people to lose respect for talmeiday chachomim.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 03:30 PM manavu camper Says:

One more thing once I am at it THIS IS THE BEST CAMP IN THE WORLD you should send your kids as I am a camper I made a siyum on 2 mesctos during camp was part of the thursday night learn a thon learnt daf with Rabbi klien every morning (what other owner of a camp has the time to say a shiur everyday) that because to him and the head staff TORAH is what comes first as he is truly a role model for all of us in camp
The bais hamedrash is full evernight with night seder and shabbos afternoon is a sight to see
Stop bashing the camp that has taught me to love hashem and torah as our way of life


 Aug 21, 2008 at 03:32 PM CMNV Bunk CIT5 Counselor Says:

I am a counselour in Camp MANAVU. I was at the concert. There was absolutely no bizayon hatorah. Not one person in the gym thought they were chas vesholom making fun of anyone!
this guy dressed up davened maariv with the camp. We all saw his fake beard and all. It was a very fun breakout that was enjoyed by every single person in the gym.
Lipa was great! He sang hartzegeh niggunim as well as some more lively niggunim.

It was a Color war breakout! For pete's sake!
By creating a tumult - it becomes a bizayon for klal yisroel!
To us, it was a fun breakout - not one of those scary ones that other camps try to do.
You can't fool the camp anymore anyways, so you might as well make it fun - and thats what they did!
MANAVU is the greatest camp!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 03:38 PM Are you retarded? Says:

I mamash don't chap? What in the video tells you about the ban?
Matter of fact, i doubt any kid in Manavu even knew about any ban or Big Event!
Why are you assuming that this camp concert shtick had anything to do with the ban?


 Aug 21, 2008 at 03:45 PM MaNaVu Parent Says:

to are you retarded -
you are 1000% right! I am a MaNaVu parent and former MaNaVu camper- my children have no clue as to what transpired over the winter with the Big Event.
This color war breakout was just to fool the kids that Lipa is getting thrown off stage and no more concert.
i remember in 1981, when I was a camper in Camp MaNaVu, MBD came for a concert. That was the year that he came out with "Let my people go" - Rabbi Klein was known to have been extremely agains him singing that song in camp. However he did it anyways... rabbi Klein throws him off stage...breaks the drums...COLOR WAR!
Then again in 1991, they had a similar thing with Avraham Fried.
Now, with Lipa... Although, this one seems to have been the best of the three!
Keep it up Camp MaNaVu!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 03:59 PM Vote McCain - The Lesser of Two Evils Says:

I was able to see the videos on youtube. perhaps the link from this site doesn't work but youtube.com did.

Anyway that's not the point here. I spoke to a few people there and they all said it was known or suspected that this was color war. I also spoke to someone at another camp who described a similar breakout and he described it as Lipa making fun of himself over the gantze mayseh.

Yall gotta take a chill pill. btw, all things being equal from all I have seen, most people would rather listen to 90's or 00's jewish 'music' than from before.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 04:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Rabbi Klein is a camping genius with experience and success in chinuch that surpasses almost anyone!! Lipa is a sincere entertainer looking only to shed a positive light on the youth of today, and he does so beautifully! Why don't people spend their energy on some positive news rather than smearing our people with every ridiculous story they can find. Anyone who has ever been in a camp for a color war breakout, including 8 year olds, know that it's all a fun joke without any malicious intentions or truthful ramifications. Sitting here at your computers blasting other Yiddin all day long, searching for ways to HATE your fellow is what is destroying our nation!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 04:13 PM snoops Says:

Shame Shame, if the ban was right or not that's one thing but choizik from rebonim, gevald where we are how do we want our children to be??!!!!!!!?????
hashem! it was done with out thinking and understanding the image out of it please forgive your children!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 04:20 PM krunch Says:

I agree that people do need to have a sense of humor, and at the same time I agree with DimDum.
I would like to point out though the severity with criticizing/doubting Gedolim. Here is what R' Chaim Shmuleveitz says about the famous gemora in Sota concerning the origin of "Yashka":
The Gemara says how the rebbe and his talmid ("Yashka") were together in an inn, and the woman of the house serve a very exquisite meal. The rebbe commented on how the host was very good. The talmid then said, "how can she be very good, her eyes are ugly" Where as the rebbe clearly was commenting on her service, the talmid thought he was commenting on her looks. The rebbe dismissed the talmid, and would not accept his apologies, no matter how many times he tried. Finally, the rebbe decided to accept the talmid's apology when he came to apologize, the rebbe was in the middle of Shema, and motioned for the talmid to wait. The talmid interpreted the motion as one of "go away," so he did, and he became Yashka.
Why did the rebbe act so strict with him in the first place? After all, people have taivois, and if anything he could've used the rebbe's help. R' Chaim Shmuelevitz answers: because the problem wasn't that the talmid's head wasn't where it should be, rather it was because the talmid thought the REBBE thought that as well!! If some one can think of their rebbeim and gedolim in such a light, he has serious hashkofa issues.
How can we get better if we don't look up to those who are better than us?


 Aug 21, 2008 at 04:21 PM Anonymous Says:

The fact that you all get Soooo Meshuga when you hear or see Lipa, that in it self shows that something is very wrong about this whole Lipa fiasco.

There is a much known saying by many Tzadikim that when you have a strong lust to something, that's a sign that the lust comes from your Yetzer Horah.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 04:23 PM Anonymous Says:

Camp Manavu has been the center of thrilling concert excitement and enjoyable Jewish music for over 30 years. Nobody knows how to make our youth feel the beauty and emotions that Jewish music has to offer better than Camp Manavu. I was a camper there a bunch of years ago and every Shabbos Rabbi Spero taught a new niggun, explaining the meaning behind the words while complimenting it with a heartfelt story. The impression that those songs and meaningful explainations made on me are still with me today! The way that Manavu presents Jewish music to its campers is unmatchable. Former campers and staff members come to camp from all over just to experience one more spiritual zemiros, spirited concert or powerful grand sing! Nobody can match the unique and awe-inspiring misical experience of Camp Manavu! Thank you for allowing me to appreciate Jewish music in all its glory!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 04:26 PM Anonymous Says:

I propose a new order and Jewish self government to ban all concerts and punish those who make choizek, have fun, lets ban color war break outs,
the munk circus,graman,batchanim, anything and everything that is fun period! ....The Talisban


 Aug 21, 2008 at 04:27 PM manavu camper Says:

Now that your hearing the story from campers such as myself and counsleurs WAIT the story now sounds diffrent suddenly everone ranting and raving against manavu has become quite YET no one who posted ripping the camp apologized for writing what they wrote if you ask me that's a bigger issue then the whole lipa thing and if you want an issue here's one why can't people who rush to judgement when they are found wrong apologize? As I head back into the oasis manavu where non judgemental is the way of the day I wish I can stay there away from the outside a little longer as its a tough unforgiving world out there maybe all the bashers have past issues with mnv or its owner but write that in your posts at least be honest and let's put this issue to rest okay I will be first I apologize if I offended anyone out there NOW ItS YOUR TURN


 Aug 21, 2008 at 04:28 PM anonymous Says:

My first impression of the video was that I enjoyed it and had a really good life. I imagine that the campers loved it and that it increased their simchas hachaim.

I only wish that this ruach could continue in cheder during the year as well.

Let's stop being so uptight and just enjoy the gifts that Hashem has given us.
Remember, if you look at Yiddishe kinderlach with a good eye, you bring out the best in them.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 04:40 PM awesome breakout Says:

This was the beat breakout ever mnv where do you come up with this stuff. Keep on keepin it rowdy M A N A V U


 Aug 21, 2008 at 04:45 PM best color war beakout ever Says:

I still think that the best breakout ever was the one when one of the counselor's dressed up in a bear costume and Tom the handyman took out his rifle to shoot the bear and R' klein screamed at him not to shoot - it's just color war breakout. Tom heard too late and still shot the bear/counselor! Blood was all over, R' Klein took off the counselor's bear helmet and he looked like he couldn't breath. Hatzalah came, everyone went to shul to say tehilim and R' Klein leads the tehilim with "Shir Hamalos, I fooled you once again, it's color war break out!"


 Aug 21, 2008 at 04:48 PM LIPA A1 Says:

Lipa u r the greatest!!!!! Lipa you rock!!!!!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 04:52 PM manavu camper Says:

By the way the menu for supper is peppersteak and rice it is a siyum on mesctas berochis


 Aug 21, 2008 at 05:11 PM AK&F Says:



 Aug 21, 2008 at 05:14 PM AKYY&F Says:

This whole thing is takkeh a beautiful, shanda and a charpa, Bizayon, goyish, crazy, fun, geshmak, laughable, stupid, smart, brilliant, gevaldik, fest.... There is only one thing we can do......



 Aug 21, 2008 at 05:15 PM jack Says:

Did the game start yet?


 Aug 21, 2008 at 05:16 PM Bai Kayta Says:

Anyone know what time it is? thats right - you know......


 Aug 21, 2008 at 05:16 PM ACH Says:

We beat MaNaVu this year


 Aug 21, 2008 at 05:17 PM CBK Says:

Unbeleivable...first MNV beats us in a thrilling basketball game then they have the most awesome concert ever!
I am jealous!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 05:20 PM Lock & Load Says:

you thought you can get away with that comment.....



 Aug 21, 2008 at 05:26 PM Bob Holmes Says:

I am a conservative Rabbi from Hartford, CT. I just happenned to come upon this website earlier. After reading through all the 200 comments, I think i am now going to become Orthodox. This life sounds more intruiging.

Also, Lipa, if you read this, please sing more songs in English. I do not speak or understand yiddish.

Rabbi Bob Holmes
Congregation Sim Na Yadcha Tachas Yereichi


 Aug 21, 2008 at 05:37 PM Anonymous Says:

There are three different issues here.
1 - Was the ban necessary and dealt with appropriately?
2 - Was the color war break-out and skit inappropriate?
3 -


 Aug 21, 2008 at 05:37 PM Osek B'tzarchei Tzibbur Says:

klal yisroel is in trouble! I must save them!This is becoming a leytzonas. This is a very chomer'dikeh inyan. Why are we making leicht of it. This is mamash one of the greatest tragedies in the past 2500 years! raboisay! You are ruining your neshamos!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 05:40 PM Anonymous Says:

There are three different issues here.
1 - Was the ban necessary and dealt with appropriately?
2 - Was the color war break-out and skit inappropriate?
3 - Is the out and out lashon hara on this website acceptable - especially as we approach Elul? Who gives you the right to bash individuals and groups?! It is much worse to spout your hatred like this than a ban on a concert. To say that Ma-Navu is not frum? To slander Rabbi Klein?! Some of you need to find something more productive to do with your time instead of being bitter and antagonistic towards your fellow Jews. (and I refer to other topics as well)
One last thing - do the managers of this site believe that every comment should be accepted?!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 05:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Rabbi Bob Holmes
Congregation Sim Na Yadcha Tachas Yereichi

I think that there are Rabbis in brooklyn that would love to work in that congregation!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 05:53 PM Flatbush Says:

I am a parent of 3 children in summer camps. Over recent years, I have sent my children to 2 different wonderful camps. I send my kids to a heimeshe school in brooklyn and live a typical frum life. Every camp has their maalos. As far as I am concerned, I do not see anything wrong with the Color War breakout. Why are people making issues out of nothing.
Whoever wrote the above article is just looking to sell his news. Why look at things with a negative eye? if you look for problems, beleive me, they can be found!

Actually, the biggest problem here is the "mechanech" the above article quotes, SCREWUP???? Is that how a so called "mechanech" talks? Shame on you! Shame on the mechanech!
if my child came home saying that word tomorrow, i will know whom to blame!
Maybe these big mechanchim should stop SCREWING UP!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 05:59 PM LT Says:

We need Frum Professional Wrestling, this is THE ONLY WAY to tackle this issue, Glatt kosher food MUST be served at the matches, and we will have Rabbonim VS.tHE Singers. We need FRUM WRESTLINg MAtcHES ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 06:01 PM Rabbi Schor Says:

I am in favor of the Wrestling Matches, as long as they end 25 minuters before shabbos.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 06:11 PM Anonymous Says:

anonymous 10:45 vert well said and ditto


 Aug 21, 2008 at 06:18 PM Anonymous Says:

I loved the part when the actor started singing, he was as good as the great Lipa!!! Let me know when they are putting a concert on together, I'll be there with all my friends!!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 06:35 PM rfk Says:

How many comments did vin have when the Lipa fiasco first got started?


 Aug 21, 2008 at 06:40 PM Anonymous Says:

If this camp and their fans keep up their rantings - that this was a GOOD or BRILLIANT idea
instead of apologizing for what was a stupid (hopefully innocent) mistake and a bizayon,then, I plan to ask every Rov and School & camp that I will send my child to, the following Question: What is your hashkafic opinion regarding this episode?
If they hesitate for even a moment, I will walk/run the other way - period. This is not the kind of chinuch I want for my kids chas v'sholom.

This whole episode could all go away if they would be man enough to admit an error in judgemnt instead of trying to whitewash it. We are living in an Alme D'Shikre. This is not about Lipa it's about kovod Hatorah. You can see from the language of those defending this that they are far from being eidleh yidden.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 06:49 PM Library Lover Says:

Having been a drama/music director, head couns, camp director, as well as camper, I can tell you that we did some crazy breakouts..and we made fun of lots of things..LIGHTEN UP all of you. You are right in saying that maybe it wasn't the smartest thing..but I am sure the kids were told that this was all part of a breakout, and nothing else..I remember a breakout in camp the year (gasp) Elvis Presley died, involving (gasp) a GOYISH music star...I was a BY girl it was a frum camp in Woodbourne that is still around..and we all grew up with Torah values and are frum married women...because all of YOU didn't breathe down our back and make everything assur! We were actually able to enjoy our lives!!! So leave the camp and these kids alone!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 06:56 PM huh? Says:

if any of u veiwed this ,,,,it was pathetic,,who r u trying to imitate,,, u look like such fools.. as a baal teshuva,,this is just sickining to me ,,, children and adults imitating " the other side" ....but u must have ur hat n jacket on,,,even if u dont know why ,or wut the perpus is ,,it doesnt matter,,,you must wake up. all of the frum yeshivish out of HAbbit .must wake up.....do u ever think wut the purpos of being in this world is ? its def not to look a certain way thats for sure


 Aug 21, 2008 at 06:58 PM think about it Says:

As to why the vast majority of post here are pro Lipa event you got to understand that most YIRAS SHAMAYIM don't hang out on the net.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 07:10 PM tehillim Says:

159 you are living in your own alma dishikra with your self rightous rants. bashing a camp or a hanhala of acamp in a public forum is also bizoyan hatora. Stay off the internet and stop being motzei shem ra before giving mussar to klal yisrael.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 08:13 PM manavu camper Says:

Alma deshikra I defend manavu because I am here and know what's going on we defend it cause we know it and you don't stop assuming when your not in the know


 Aug 21, 2008 at 08:26 PM Anonymous Says:

disgusting making fun of rabanim

chas v'shelom
terrbiel after tishabav this is what manavu is teaching kids shame on them shame on them


 Aug 21, 2008 at 09:48 PM Yaakob Rosenbaum Says:

Gedolim are the leaders of our generation. However there are some issues where they have absolutely no inkling as to what is actually occuring. The Torah does not require us to listen to gedolim on such mundane issues as to whether certain music played at a concert is appropriate. Bnei Torah are able to determine issues such as this on their own. Certain power hungry rich individuals try to control gedolim by tricking them into banning certain issues which the gedolim know nothing about. There was absolutely nothing wrong at all with what manavu did. It was a funny skit. They were not mocking the gedolim. They were mocking something which the gedolim should have nothing to do with in the 1st place. Who cares if they made this skit that some people might say indirectly insulted the gedolim. I guarentee you todays gedolim do not care nor even know that this skit even occured. Yet all of you on vinnews.com have nothing better to do than type on your computers on how wrong this skit was. Instead of fussing about how big reshaim the people in manavu are, spend your time learning or doing chesed instead of posting comments on this site about something the gedolim dont care about and neither should you. If you do want to spend time discussing something worthwile, than discuss how the gedolim have no hand in the types of counselors manavu hires. I can tell you that a handful of them are people you would not want influencing your kids.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 09:56 PM Mordy Says:

Mr. Rosenbaum is absolutely right. He hit the nail on the hammer or some type of saying that says hes correct. Manavu did a big service to bnei yisroel by drawing attention to an issue that people have are afraid to speak about. The gedolim are not here to discuss stupid issues like this one. They are hear to paskin halacha. I give a bracha to everyone on this site that they should be able to stop listening to gedolim on issues which do not pertain to the gedolim.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 10:00 PM Duvi Says:

If this was only supposed to be a manavu thing, why on earth was it on youtube?


 Aug 21, 2008 at 10:00 PM pinny saf Says:

as a former counselor of MNV from 30 years ago. I can honestly say that it was the best camp in both ruchnius and gashmious.Rabbi Klein lives camp 24/7 365 days a year and is a great mechanech and hires top people.I came MNV from Camp Agudah who had a breakout where they had a chashuva yid come dressed as a rebbe and all the kids lined up to give him shalom.At mincha he started to daven and daven and daven and never finished. The head counselor didn't wait for him and a fight broke out over the "rebbe's" kovod and sure enough when the fight got really heated they screamed color war. Turns out that the "rebbe" was a cook in a chashideshe camp down the road with a white beard.The next day one of the rabbayim a rebeshe einikel from Flatbush got up and critisized the camp for making fun of rebbes. Naturally its camp aguddah and he was never heard from again.
People we have to lighten up because if we take everything to heart that these so called askonim dream up we are in trouble. Unfortunately the Lipe fiasco is not going away and the issue of the thousands of dollars lost by Shia Mendlowitz is all but forgotten. Many signers to the Kol Korah have lost their luster to many in the klal and its going to take something really special on the part of the rabbonim to get people to have emunas chachomim once again.A public apology and a fund raiser for Shia would go a long way towards that goal but we all know that it will never happen.
By the way, why was their no outcry when a choshova yeshiva in Flatbush, around the corner from Rabbi A.S.the head rabble rouser, hired Lipa to lead Hallel on Rosh Chodesh Adar. Was it because many of the anti Lipa askonims kids go to that yeshiva and daven in that shule. just asking


 Aug 21, 2008 at 10:52 PM Ban the Bans Says:

It is high time that the bans are banned! It is time to take away the power of a few so called 'rabbis' who do not care about the big monetary loss, and embarrassment that the people behind the concert received. Where was their big newspaper ads of apology? Did they take responsibility for the loss and damage and pay the producers back? There should be a wordily din torah for these 'rabbis' and then another one in heaven for them. This has got to stop.


 Aug 21, 2008 at 10:53 PM Emes Says:

Maybe it's time to reschedule the concert!
Lipa was wronged publicly and not apologized to-listen to his interview with Zev Brenner where all was told. It was the Emes- but on this planet
"de emes is geshtorbin" and in the cemetary that Yankel Miller ended in when following the instructions of his GPS. He was told turn right , turn left at which point he reached a cemetary and was told "you've reached your final destination". Where were the Rabbonim in regard to the boat concert last week!!!!


 Aug 21, 2008 at 11:41 PM anonymous Says:

wow their are a lot of people posting keep it coming I laugh at every one because each post thinks they know 100% of the story before you type.... ...
know YOU know nothing


 Aug 22, 2008 at 02:04 AM Anonymous Says:

my GOSH!! pple make mistakes. get over it.


 Aug 22, 2008 at 03:01 AM Rachamim Says:

I nevr understood the ban until I saw this video. The rabbonim were concerned that Lipa's music style promoted animalistic behavior. Judging from the video, they were right.


 Aug 22, 2008 at 03:01 AM Anonymous Says:

This color war brake out sickens me. It may seem exciting... But many times the brake outs are so crazy. Trying to get kids frightened, make them cry... and then brake out color war. wow. The children must feel very good that adults played with their feelings and they cried for nothing. Accidents happened already, and no one took it seriously because they thought the camp is braking out color war. Its about time it should stop!


 Aug 22, 2008 at 03:54 AM LT Says:

SO WHAT THEN IS THE REAL STORY BEHInD THIS ALL??.....PERhaps the Rabbis are working together with Lipa, they are ALL in on it, and each Rabbi makes a percentage from each CD sold.....so we've all been fooled.....could this be it??? Please answer.


 Aug 22, 2008 at 09:22 AM Anonymous Says:

Of anything learned from this you all missed the most important and disturbing result.

How do campers and staff have access to the internet to put in the comments above???


 Aug 22, 2008 at 09:57 AM Anonymous Says:

I am a Rabbi who many of you would know of. A fellow who davens in my shul came over to me after Daf Yomi this morning and handed me a stack of papers and asked me to have a look at it after davening. This stack of papers was a print-out of this story with all the comments.
I don't even know where to begin. When the whole incident first happened and the concert was canceled, I was in touch with many of the Rabbanim who signed the letter and was told that the way in which the issue was presented to them, as well as the way it was done, was not at all what they had in mind. They were misinformed by people who had an agenda and were pushed to sign the letter because many of their peers "had already done so."
Obviously one can never put their name on something without doing their research first, but these Rabbanim are human and many admitted to me that they made a mistake. Most of the Rabbanim who signed the ban are very well-known and respected individuals who are tremendous Talmidei Chachamim who may see the world and their purpose on this world differently than we understand it. They worked hard to become who they are and most have done enough for their communities and the Jewish community at large to be given the respect they deserve.
I find it unbelievable how many people, many who are probably "chassidim" of these Rabbanim and bashing them behind their backs, jumped to attack the Rabbanim for what they did. If anything, the Kana'aim who egged these Rabbanim on and who are so quick to ruin people's livelihood and reputations for their own selfish reasons should be attacked. I don't feel that I need to explain the severity of these people's actions; it should be quite clear that they have a lot of Teshuva to do.
At the same time I will note, that attacking these people as well as the Rabbanim by use of the internet, is in line with what these Kanaim were doing. Please do not stoop to their level. If you have a personal issue with a Rov or with someone else, you should contact them directly and try and understand their point of view and try to work on coming to a mutual understanding. It is bad enough that the entire world hates the Jews; who needs us to fight with each other (in a public forum no less)? Nothing will be resolved by expressing one-sided and often baseless and misinformed comments online.
As far as those who have been defending Lipa and Camp Ma Na Vu, or the Rabbanim who signed the ban, or the people who were behind the ban, I beg you all to take a moment and really think about something before posting your comments. Will your comments really make any difference whatsoever? Will your comments change someone's view on life? Will your comments allow people to properly "see the other side?" Will your comments bring peace to Jews around the world? Will your comments help bring peace to Eretz Yisroel? Will your comments help feed the thousands of Jewish families who cannot afford to put food on their tables? Will your comments help all of the Yesomim and Almanos in our communities?
Let us not forget the lessons of the three weeks which just past and let us not forget that the Yamim Nora'im are just around the corner. Perhaps focusing on what unites us rather than what divides us is a more appropriate approach. Perhaps if we have the time to sit online and let out our frustration by ruining other people's lives, we should instead be doing Chessed.
As much as this entire saga has bothered me, it bothers me more that there are so many people being so unproductive and in most cases counter-productive. Nobody cares what you have to say and it really makes no difference.
Wishing you all a gutten shabbos.


 Aug 22, 2008 at 10:32 AM anonymous Says:



 Aug 22, 2008 at 12:44 PM Anonymous Says:

I was in a camp 20 years ago when they broke out color war by threatening to give medical shots to the entire camp with giant needles, because one camper had become sick and went home. I think I would have preferred the MaNaVu one.


 Aug 22, 2008 at 01:14 PM Avi Says:

I alway's found Color war to be very boring and stupid!


 Aug 22, 2008 at 02:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Anon 9:57
If as you state in the conclusion of your long winded comment that " Nobody cares what you have to say and it really makes no difference " than why did you bother to comment.


 Aug 22, 2008 at 03:33 PM Anonymous Says:

there is always an idiot who has to try and undermine a good point someone else made...so pathetic


 Aug 22, 2008 at 03:38 PM Anonymous Says:

amen to that. whoever wrote:

If as you state in the conclusion of your long winded comment that " Nobody cares what you have to say and it really makes no difference " than why did you bother to comment.

needs to get help to try and figure out why it is he is so miserable


 Aug 22, 2008 at 03:54 PM Anonymous Says:

to the raish galusah who threw in the "alma d'shikra" line -- you're amazing! that's just gadlus!


 Aug 24, 2008 at 12:51 AM פורים רב Says:

אתם לא מבינים ש"קלאר וואר" הוא כמו פורים ובפורים יש פורים רב!


 Aug 24, 2008 at 02:22 AM Anonymous Says:

Anonm - You claim you are a 'rabbi' who was in touch wi th the concert ban rabbis. I can assure you if it was a million dollar deal research would have been done. Some so called rabbis scrutinize an ordinary ketubah before signing.. But to take down an innocent concert promoter, causing possibly a million dollars, no time for resdearch?>? You are a fool and so are they. This was totally irresponsible and def. not acceptable. It is high time to cut out this cancer and take away these ' rabbis'. This is out of control. Let's ban the rabbis!


 Aug 26, 2008 at 04:55 PM Anonymous Says:

i am a camper at MANAVU and i can say that i knew that the beard was fake just like all my friends did and we were not making fun of the ban or any rabbonim we were just having a good time.


 Aug 27, 2008 at 04:56 PM The great benjy Says:

i was also in manavu this summer and to me and many others that concert was THE highlight of the summer and was the most fun i have ever had.And if anyone thinks that the point of it was to make fun of rabbanim then that is just stupid, it was for the sake of an awesome color war breakout and it was an awesome breakout.By the way...we own you Bei Kayta


 Aug 28, 2008 at 03:22 PM manavu camper Says:

i am a member of camp manavu for a few years now. nunmber one the people who run the camp r some of the most unblvbl ppl u will ever meet and were just trying to have a fun concert and a fun start to a great color war. number 2 all the ppl who
think that they made a mistake doesnt give u a right to bash ppl who dedicate their entire year to ensure that ther campers have an enjoyable summer.they did it for us and we looooooved it


 Aug 31, 2008 at 03:09 PM Anonymous Says:



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