Ramapo, NY – Police Officer Ernst Tenemille wants Friday nights and Saturdays off – just like rookie Police Officer Baile Glauber.
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Tenemille said he’s a practicing Seventh-Day Adventist and those two days are his Sabbath – just like Glauber claims those Sabbath days as a Jew.
The difference is that after starting work in June, Glauber almost immediately got her requested days off from Police Chief Peter Brower, with support from town Supervisor Christopher St. Lawrence.
Tenemille, an officer for seven years, said he made his request known in June, using Glauber’s modified schedule as his model.
So far, documents show, Tenemille’s paperwork for Friday and Saturday off has been turned down on technicalities, but not on the merits of his request.
“My request is not being taken seriously at all,” Tenemille said. “They told Officer Glauber to submit her days off and she was approved immediately.”
The town’s position is that Tenemille’s request will be considered, as will the other requests from officers based on religious issues.
Several police officers on the 125-member force have put in for religious holidays off since Glauber set a precedent for the department. “Anyone can make a request,” Town Attorney Michael Klein said. “The town will do the best it can to respect a person’s religious beliefs and religious observances. Whether his situation is identical to Glauber’s, I don’t know.”
Glauber, 30, a single mother with a 9-year-old boy, was raised as a Satmar Hasidic Jew. Glauber no longer is part of the Satmar community, but she told the department she’s observant.
For Jews, the weekly Sabbath from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday is extremely holy and involves prayer, rest and no work. The Orthodox don’t touch money, drive or even turn light switches on or off during the Sabbath.
Seventh-Day Adventists also view their Sabbath as a day of worship. Tenemille said they also follow a dietary code that prohibits pork, don’t wear jewelry that doesn’t have a practical purpose and they attend services.
Ramapo Policemen’s Benevolent Association President Dennis Procter said the police administration and town officials know what Tenemille wants. Procter said Tenemille’s case could end up before a state arbitration hearing and eventually in civil court.
“His religious belief mirrors the Jewish beliefs as far as Sabbath observances,” Procter said. “He’s not asking for anything more than what was given to Officer Glauber.”
Brower has written that Tenemille never filed a formal memo seeking a modified working schedule with the deputy chief. Tenemille and Procter contest that statement. The PBA president said copies of Tenemille’s June 23 letter seeking a modified scheduled also were given to the supervisor and Town Attorney’s Office.
St. Lawrence acknowledged Glauber’s requests for Friday and Saturday off caused some ripples of discontent. He said he hopes Glauber’s situation works itself out as officers can swap days off and work on each other’s holidays. He said she could get Friday nights and Saturdays off that way.
Right now, St. Lawrence said Glauber works a week of day shifts Monday through Friday, and then a week of night shifts Sunday through Thursday.
If many officers seek, say, Sundays off, St. Lawrence said shift changes might become necessary.
Glauber, who tried for a spot on the New York City Police Department, was hired in January by the Town Board and then spent six months with the Rockland Police Academy.
She joined the department after working for the Traffic Safety Board for the Rockland Sheriff’s Department.
Town Attorney, Mike Klein, said Tenemille, who joined the force in 2001, never asked for those days off before.
Tenemille said he never before asked for his Sabbath days off because he felt it would burden his fellow officers if he got special considerations. When Glauber was hired and the town officials gave their “blessing for a modified schedule,” Tenemille said he decided to find out if he would be given the same treatment.”
When I signed up for this job, I made a decision I would modify the way I observe my religion,” Tenemille said. “My situation is very similar to hers.”
If principle means anything, Yidden should support Officer Tenemille’s request.
What a Shame, that Proctor (Himself a Jew) would compare Officer Glaubers situation (who is not allowed to drive,Talk on a Phone, or any use of mechanical Equipment on Shabos) To Officer Tenemille (who has some Dietary and clothing requirements).
This is a dirty attempt by some Officers and the PBA to idirectly get Glaubers issue into the Courts without “DIRECTLY” opposing her Religious needs.
Ramapo 2008 or Munich 1939 ???
here’s the real deal-
officer glauber (if she is in fact orthodox) would rather lose her job than work on a fri nite or saturday. this is a chice that most of our parents or grandparents had to make at one point in their lives.
I wonder what this seventh day adventist officer does now on saturdays? does he work?
He has admitted that he works currently on Saturday, so any modification requests changes the terms of his employment, hence there is no need to accomodate. Her request was made at the time she was hired hence they are part of the terms of her employment, and any change by the dept would be a breach of contract.
This is nothing more than a bunch of jealous cops. Her modified schedule does not mean she works less hours than they do. She puts in the same hours as every other cop on the force.
like i told one of my goyish workers the difference is if i will give you double pay if you come on those goyish holydays you come in. but no money will make a jew who keeps the holy shabbos work on that day THATS THE DIFFERENCE.
Yonason is correct… we should support the other officer’s request. Again, this is a matter of principle and respect to non-Jews.
But, I do understand that some people want to use this a backdoor way to give Ms. Glauber a problem. Personally she, and other Jews in Rockland, should support the other officer. It’s a good start to show that Jews are not all about taking and not giving.
Lets Compare the two.
Officer Glauber CAN’T
Drive a car.
Talk on the Phone or Radio.
Operate any Machine.
Officer Tenemille. CAN’T
Eat Pork.
Wear Jewelery
All I can say is WOW.
What a comparison
I didn’t know that RAMAPO PD Requires you to EAT PORK, or WEAR JEWELERY. when on duty.
Balabuste you don’t get it. this is the way the they wan’t to fight Officer Glaubers Religious accomodations.
Get a Minority Officer to request time off for “Supposedly Religious Reasons”, and when they deny it (as they should) then file a lawsuit, thus Suing the PD indirectly against Glaubers accomodation
I don’t think we should support Glauber either. She had no respect for halachah in joining. Its hard to believe that she is still fully observant.Why destry obedience and moral in the force just for her.?
well we can look at this 2 difffrent sides
1: she is a new cop just got in & right away she gets the best deal (most cops want to work weekdays & weekends off)
or the other way around
2: she is asking for SHABBOS off officer sais to chief “oh well she is jewish so am I- I want my day off as well” but the cheif sais “you never asked for shabbos off in all 7 years you worked here!”
they all know his true reason for the request
If the seventh day adventist officer gets shabbos off, will he;
Never drive a car on saturday?
Never handle money on Saturday?
Will he never go to the movies on Saturday?
Will his kids not have sports on Saturday?
Does his minister even say he needs off?
etc.
I asked these questions of a seventh day where I work. He could not commit to one of these obligations. He actually could not even believe that this is what jews keep on Shabbos. But he insisted that he has every right to Shabbos observance as orthodox jews. And, in fact the Jewish organization here in brooklyn where we work gives him the day off, no questions asked. But they keep asking me to change. Go figure.
There is no question that the SDA officer is correct. Just because for years he compromised on his beliefs doesn’t mean he has to do so forever. The Jewish cop’s example has shown him that he doesn’t have to compromise any more, so he wants to stop. That’s always difficult for others to understand, but it’s his right and the town must accomodate him.
When someone I knew was in a Soviet prison camp, he made it clear to the commandant that he was not going to work on Shabbos and Yomtov no matter what, and after a while they realized that it was true, so they let him be. But when chol hamoed came, he went out to work; the commmandant, who knew that the Jewish holiday lasts a whole week, jumped on him and said this proves that you’re not really religious, and on Shabbos you’ve just been too lazy to work. He couldn’t explain “dovor ho’oveid” to the goy, so he just said you’re right, I made a mistake by working today, and I’m going back to the barracks; see you next week. The lesson he learned is that when you start to compromise, the goy loses his respect, and you lose more than you bargained for.
Let’s hope if she still try to keep shabbos, one day she will come back complety to keep everything, so let’s not compare both
I respect the rights of the Seventh Day Adventist officer.
However, his reliious beliefs have not forced him to do anything religiously wrong for all of his seven years on the force. I don’t see how he just now found a reason.
Mrs. Glauber would definitely have conflicts though, and it would force her to make imprudent and perhaps lethal, decisions.
What if someone was a nonreligious Jewish policeman, then became ba’al tshuvah, and now wants Shabbos & YomTov off? Do you say yes or no to him? What about a goy who decides to become more religious in his beliefs?
If we want our religious beliefs taken respectfully, we must grant the same for others, whether Jewish or for other religions. It is not right to go digging to see just how religious a person really. Maybe Officer Glauber drives on Shabbos? Maybe yes, maybe no. Not my business. Same with the other man who is Seventh Day Adventist. If he says he wants Saturday off for his religion, you must respect it, if you want people to respect your own religion.
A true Seventh Day Adventist does not drive or do any work on Saturday. You can look up their rules very easily.
In a business where there has to be coverage 24/7, like in emergency services or hospital, everybody want off Friday evening and weekends. When a rookie is immediately given such a privilege, the others will naturally begrudge this, no matter what the religion. Is Glauber willing to work all Sundays and secular/goyish holidays, to make up for the inconvenience to others? We don’t know the answer.
In a large department, there are enough people of different religions to absorb such accommodations. In a smaller group, like a small police department, it is not so easy. You cannot start picking and choosing who we will accommodate and who not.
Either you hire more people to share the workload, or you don’t give anybody special accommodations.
Ms. Glauber deserves the full support of our community. Whether we are comfortable with her level of jewishness or not.
I don’t understand these people who are saying Officer Glauber isn’t “freally frum” even though she is very dedicated to keeping Shabbos. Because she doesn’t dress according to the latest KJ mishugassen chumros? She is making a real Kiddush Hashem on the force, more Kovod to her!
Are there any former (or current) Seventh Day Adventists commenting here? Do we Jews know anything about the requirements of that Christian group? How can we comment in ignorance? We should simply support the officer’s request for the same reason that we would hope that Christians would support our requests for observance.
I agree, Babishka and Anonymous. The details of how frum she is, her personal life and her choices are nobody’s business.
If she is a good policewoman, and helps improve understanding between the police and the religious community, that will be wonderful.
The particulars of how the department accommodates their employees’ religious needs can be worked out. Having religious people of all kinds make any organization better in the long run.
He will lose and so will she. Other than the NYC PD, there is not one LE agency that accomodates religious beliefs. I am surprised that even NYC does it. LE is a 24/7 job and if u look at most agency websites, they will tell u that weekends are required. As I stated on a previous topic, I suggest that all these new frum recruits keep a low profile and do their job well. As these things keep making news, someone will eventually challenge it here as well.
So if she sees a crime being committed on a Saturday, she is to let it go buy? Or if there is another emergency she can’t go it to work? When she took this job it’s requirments were 24/7 SHE SHOULD FIND SOME OTHER KIND OF JOB, heck I don’t see her wearing modest clothes.
Quoted from wikipedia:
In order to keep the Sabbath holy, Adventists abstain from secular work and other non-essential business on Saturday. They will also usually refrain from purely secular forms of recreation, such as competitive sport and watching non-religious programs on television. However, nature walks, family-oriented activities, charitable work and other activities that are compassionate in nature are considered acceptable.
Much of Friday might be spent in preparation for the Sabbath; for example, preparing meals and tidying homes. Some Adventists gather for Friday evening worship to welcome in the Sabbath, a practice often known as Vespers.
Saturday afternoon activities vary widely depending on the cultural, ethnic and social background. In some churches, members and visitors will participate in a fellowship (or “potluck”) lunch.
This reminds me of everybody requesting Kosher meals in prison. The prison officials don’t usually rely on someone’s word that they keep Kosher. I believe the Chaplain asks the guy questions to see if he’s at all familiar w/ mitzvos & Yiddishkeit.
if glouber has to work on shobbes is she going to quit or woud she bend the rule a bit if so she is making a chillel hashem and take a normel job were she can dress like a jew
GUYS your missing the point, in his own words Officer Tenemille said (and I quote from the article)
Tenemille said he decided “to find out if he would be given the same treatment”
In other words his Religion dos not require him to stay home from work or refrain from any work nor does he care whether he gets time off he is just trying to reverse the exeption made for Officer Glauber.
At least he is being Honest…
JBC you can’t be further from the truth ALL LE agencies accomodate religious beliefs from the FBI,CIA etc.all the way down to a part time officer in small town USA.
Go check the FACTS out for yourself…
I love listening to people bashing ms. glauber over her dress code frumkeit etc.
fix yourself before you pounce on a lady who hashem will grant her the wisdom that is necessery for the job.
may hashem protect you in the z’chus of keeping shabbos
The problem is most companies in America that aren’t M-F, 9-5, discriminate including most police depts. Esau sonai l’yaacov. I know the laws back and forth because I’ve been discriminated against umpteen times. I’ve taken it to court a total of twice. But I enjoy reading all the know-it-alls comments. The problem here is that these cops don’t want Ramapo (monsey) to turn into Hymie town like NY city. NYC is one of the few PDs in the country that actually accommondates frum Jews.
I have heard of this religion of seventh day adventists and they don’t work on Sat., but if this guy actually practiced it, not just belongs to their temple, he would have never taken the job in the first place without an accommodation.
So obviously this is just a smoke screen for their anti-semitism!
Calm down. Not everything is a smokescreen for anti-semitism. Maybe the Seventh-Day Adventist officer was shy about asking for an accomodation before, but after seeing a Rookie do so, decided to go for it. Officer Glauber, like all police officers deserve our support. Neither crying anti-semitism nor questioning her level of observance, sesrves any good purpose. Se is a terrific role model. Even if she can’t get every Saturday off because there are only so many police officers, she should be supported because someone needs to do this life saving work.
I am happy that she is keeping shabbos. People should look at the positive and not judge someone. Ultimately Hashem is the judge.
Being a police officer is also a way to improve relations between the religious community and the police. A frum police officer can also better handle situations that arise in the religious community, where a nonJewish policeman might not understand some things.
Yes, there is a potential danger, but the vast majority of police are never injured, thank G-d.
To Calm Down,
Either you are not Jewish or not religious.
You think what I wrote is not accurate about a smoke-screen because you don’t understand our religion. You probably also don’t understand the law. I’ll try to explain it you. Religious orthodox jews need accommodation to have certain days off because we are not allowed to work on these days no matter what -even for police work. (Most police work isn’t life and death.) If you look at the court cases of discrimination- one of the things you’ll find is that you have to have a sincere belief in your religion in order for the employer to have to try to accommondate you. This seventh -day adventist obviously has no such belief otherwise like I said he would have requested it beforehand and if he did’t get -he still wouldn’t work. I as an Orthodox Jew have declined positions which required me to work on Sat. So the fact that this guy is jumping on the bandwagon at this point can only be because he is anti-semitic. He might not even think he is, but he is because he doesn’t have an absolute strong belief in his religion because of the points I mentioned before!
To anonymous 3:50. Isn’t it part of the religion to not judge others and automatically assume the worst about others. What if the SDA is growing in his religious observance? If it was a Yid growing in observance, would you assume some nefarious ulterior motive. With respect to the law, only reasonable accomodation is required. In the case of a police department which must be adequately staffed 24/7, if everyone needed fri night – sat night off, then it is not reasonable to accomodate everyone. You are just worried that accomodating the SDA’s might mean that not all the jewish officers can be accomodated every week and the observant officers (both SDA and Jewish) will have to take turns.
Does she cover her hair? Does she wear pants? Where does her kid go to school? Does she REALLY keep Shabbos or is she using it as a way to get days off?
I sure hope anonymous 5:54 is being sarcastic. It’s sometimes hard to tell with this board. The only question relevant to whether she is entitled to accomodations is the last one. If she says she observes Shabbat then she is entitled to a reasonable accomodation, the same as her colleague.
Someone is allowed to keep Shabbos, even if they wear pants and show their hair. Not every community is like BP, Monsey and KJ. Some communities in and around NYC have very fine Jews that don’t cover hair, wear pants, yet they keep Shabbos. Even if she came from Chasidic background, it does not mean that she cannot keep Shabbos. Don’t impose your view on others.
(And I am from BP, not from “those” other “less” frum areas).
benish Says:
JBC you can’t be further from the truth ALL LE agencies accomodate religious beliefs from the FBI,CIA etc.all the way down to a part time officer in small town USA.
Go check the FACTS out for yourself…
————————————————–
I did. Make some calls. Pick an agency besides NYC. They will all tell u that shift preferentials are based on seniority. If someone with more time is slated to get a weekend off spot and doesn’t get it on account of a new guys Shabbos he would have a sound reverse discrimination suit.
To the guy who said this, “(Most police work isn’t life and death.),” how sure are u about this? Anything can happen and usually on those calls that one would think is not life and death. (I base this on actual conversations with Patrolmen).
The Saturday off-time of Officer Glauber should be based [primarily] on shift trades [with her fellow officers], at least until she gains seniority. This way, it wouldn’t bring all the [negative] emotions (and motions) to the fore!
anon Says:
I don’t think we should support Glauber either. She had no respect for halachah in joining. Its hard to believe that she is still fully observant.Why destry obedience and moral in the force just for her.?
09-14-2008 – 9:20 AM
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Are you gods spkes person? should we dig upome dirt about you and when we do we will publisize it and call u un orthodox??
stop getting into peoples personal lives . your not god and god did not send you to do his work
Nobody held a gun to Tenemille’s head and made him compromise his beliefs to work on the Ramapo PD. He made that choice himself. I would like to believe that if the Ramapo PD did not accomodate Glauber, she would have chosen not to work there as opposed to compromising her beliefs. There is no comparison between Glauber and Tenemille.
Officer glober is observant when its CONVENIENT, its very CONVENIENT to eat CHULENT on shabbos trust me, but very INCONVENIENT to follow the laws of the TORAH, the laws of the SHULCHAN ARUCH, the laws of TZNIUT and so on, so give me a big break with her observance.
Lastly better believe that MOMMA RUCHEL is sweeping and crying in her grave, and any jew that knows abit what it means to be a female PO surrounded with the biggest low lifes, has rachmunes on her – but for that you also need to have some brains to see what a pity she is – many women get divorced lo oilenu, there is no doubt that moshiach is on the way – because believe me its getting down rotten and worse by the minute !
Lets be mispallel for ourselves we should do teshuva, lets be mispallel that our kids are brought up to be a nachas to your family, after all nothing will matter in the end, and its the biggest joy for parents to go away from this olem hasheker after 120 years – that they can see real nachas of their kids that after 2000 years we still try to do as best what G-D wants from us as the CHOSEN PEOPLE, and lets try to bring up doires erliche -even if we have to sacrifice alot for it, – so when Mosghiach Tzidkenu arrives he should be proud of us and be able to say to Hashem, look after so many sufferings your people went through, these erliche people held strong they sacrificed everything for you, they studied the holy torah, they tried to do your will the best they could under tough circumstances and now its time to REWARD them, and trust me that reward is well worth to sacrifice for.
We can be dan lekaf zechus, that maybe officer Glober with the other 10 orthodox officers will be given the opportunity to control the traffic that will be caused by the coming of moshiach AMEN.
To Anon. @4:50 PM,
Let me respond to you, because you are talking out of ignorance. You go back and forth between Torah law and civil law. Yes the torah says we should judge people favorably and yes it is possible he wants to be more religious, but since he wasn’t like this till now, the burden of proof remains on him -both acc. to Torah law & acc. to civil law. He might have to bring his pastor or some other proof that he has changed; we don’t have to take his word for it. As far as resonable accomodation, you are correct; so definetly when a Jew asks for an accommodation, we don’t want everybody jumping on the bandwagon because now it might become an undue hardship for the employer. If it now becomes an undue hardship & now the employer stops giving an accommodation to the jew, the act of jumping on the bandwagon is Anti-semitic! You see, usually the religion precedes the job not vice-versa!
To JBC,
Let me answer, I’m very sure. You obvoiusly didn’t understand my comment. Yes, it is true that any call can escalate to a life and death call, but I was talking from a religious perspective. As far as I know, the torah wouldn’t consider the avg. police work- life & death in order for you to go to work on the Sabbath. So, therefore any orthodox jew needs an accommodation for Sat.
its not your place to monitor what the definition of “work” for another is. Some Jews say being shomer shabbos is only “custom” while you say its law… if there is no respect for one religion, there won’t be for others. Whether the officer is currently working now on friday or not is irrelevant if he says this violates his religion. Perhaps he views his police work as pikuach nefesh work just like a doctor in a hospital views his work– and yet the doctor may rightfully request a shomer shabbos accommodation.
What about the frum police officer in Las Vegas who decided he is going to be more stringent on law of cutting his beard — after he was employed? does that mean he isn’t allowed to?
To Anon.
3:33PM,
I will answer you again because you seem to be very ignorant. I think you are a non-orthodox Jew. If you decide to respond to me, please tell me what religion you are and how observant. First of all, I am not defining “work” for anybody; I was reiterating the law. Did you ever hear of case law? Case law states that the burden of proof remains on the employee to prove that he needs an accommodation. If all of a sudden he did change his religion or observance, he has to prove that. He will have a tough time convincing the court that all of sudden he has changed. This doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen, just that it is difficult to prove. You keep harping on the fact that if he says so -it must be and you have to accommodate. The employer and the Court do not have to take his word for this. He has to prove it. This is true acc. to Torah also. Also, there is noone from the Orthodox Jewish religion that says “shomer shabbos is a custom”. I don’t what they say in other Jewish denominations about Shabbos, but this case of Shabbos accommodation is for an Orthodox Jew. The article states she was born Orthodox and remains Orthodox. It sounds to me that you are Jewish cop and you work on Sat. Let me tell you that you are not allowed to, it is not life and death like a Doctor in a Hospital.
If you want to talk case law, look up a case and I’ll discuss it with you. I think the case you are talking about was in the news but as far as I know has not gone to Court as of yet. This case here, if it would go to trial would be heard in either NY State court or Federal court. NY State has a better religious accommodation law than the Federal gov.
So because till now he compromised his beliefs, he has to keep doing so? That makes no sense. Until now he didn’t realise that it was possible for his beliefs to be accommodated, so for lack of choice he compromised; he didn’t have the strength to quit his job over the Sabbath. But now that he knows it’s possible and he’s seen an example of someone standing up for Shabbos, it gave him the chizuk he needed to do the same. Good for him, and we should all applaud and support him. A person is allowed to change for the better.
To Milhouse,
Don’t put words in my mouth that I never said. I don’t care if he is frummer now than he was before. I just said- that he can’t get an accommodation for his newfound religious beliefs acc. to law unless he can prove it. This would be very difficult given his past performance. Noone has to take his word for it -not the employer & not the court. You shouldn’t comment before you read carefully and think about what you are about to post!