Brooklyn, NY – Preliminary proceedings have begun in a case being brought against a Brooklyn Bais Yaakov, with the presiding judge at the initial hearing expressing incredulity that a teenager could have been thrown out of school because of an unproven accusation by an unnamed individual.
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As previously reported on VIN News Lev Bais Yaakov is being sued by a former student, identified in court records only as G.S. because of her age, for expelling her in December 2013 after the school’s principal allegedly received a phone call from a mother charging that G.S. had texted an inappropriate picture of herself to a boy.
VIN News obtained the 30 page court transcripts of the initial hearing, which took place on June 30th in Brooklyn federal court. According to the transcript, G.S.’s attorney Robert Tolchin outlined the details of the incident to Judge Ramon E. Reyes, Jr., who confirmed facts with Adam Guzik and Israel Goldberg, attorneys for Lev Bais Yaakov, located in Sheepshead Bay.
Tolchin said that his client was ejected from Lev Bais Yaakov because of the picture, which neither his client’s parents, nor anyone in the school, had ever seen. While the claim had originally been made that it was the menaheles, Mrs. Rivka Oratz, who had received the anonymous tip, Tolchin told Judge Reyes it was actually another member of the administration, tentatively identified by Guzik as general studies principal Batya Sochaczewski, who took the call.
Guzik stated that he had yet to speak with Mrs. Sochaczewski but that it was his understanding that the school’s principals never saw the picture. Goldberg noted that he believed that the anonymous tipster declined to show anyone alleged picture out of concern that it might tarnish her son’s reputation within the community.
Asked by Judge Reyes if G.S. has been expelled because of an anonymous tip with no proof supplied, Guzik did not deny the claims but rather countered that the alleged offense was a major infraction of school rules. Guzik’s remark prompted the judge to respond with incredulity, asking the defense lawyer twice in succession, “Are you serious?”
Guzik, who said he had not seen all of the case files yet, said that he believed that G.S. had been disciplined by Lev Bais Yaakov previously for both in-school cell phone usage and behavioral issues and that she was struggling academically, which precipitated meetings between the school and her parents. Goldberg described G.S. as a “troubled girl” who “was causing trouble” and suggested that her ejection after the anonymous phone call “may have been just the culmination of those many issues.”
Judge Reyes expressed concern about the school’s decision to expel G.S.
“It’s really troubling,” said Judge Reyes. “It’s really troubling. The straw that broke the camel’s back was an anonymous call and an allegation, if it even happened. You’ve got to admit it’s problematic.”
The June 30th hearing was just the first step in what could be a lengthy legal process, and both sides will begin the disclosure process to identify potential witnesses and relevant documents. All depositions are scheduled to be completed by the end of December and Tolchin says he expects a trial to begin in early 2016.
“I am looking forward to having the process bring out the truth of what happened,” Tolchin told VIN News.
VIN News reached out to Rabbi Shmiel Deutsch, executive director of Lev Bais Yaakov, who declined to comment on the situation.
How dare the Court question Das Torah!
I am sure that the Beis Yaakov’s Va’ad HaChinuch made absolutely sure that no possible injustice could have been done to this scoundrel of a student. Why…if we don’t stand up to this anti-Semitic intrusion…the next thing they’ll do is question why Lakewood girls have such a hard time getting into high school every year.
Tsk tsk tsk!
If the allegations are true, the polite response is a thank you. You can always delete a picture you don’t want to keep if you are so bothered by it. Stories like this make me worry that nice jewish girls will stop interacting with nice jewish boys for fear of retribution. What will the boys do then?
Sounds like a violation of due process.
Suing in a secular court is against the Shulchan Aruch. There are no 2 ways about it. The family must take their case out of court.
Was the boy expelled from his yeshiva?
While I agree that this should have been brought to Bais Din, i feel for the parents
and the girl. Schools and the administrations could not care less about the individual student. These schools are merely a business to them. How dare they expel a girl for an unseen and unsubstantiated claim? this is not the kind of thing she can recover from without scars. Many young kids make mistakes. Nobodys perfect, as demonstrated by children all over the world, even from the BEST HOMES
how many kids can’t even get into school to begin with – in our county there are 2 Haredi schools (one Chassidish and one Litvish), but neither will let our kids in, and the Modern Orthodox School isn’t exactly right for a family where the father wears a shtreimel & white socks and the mother wears a shpitzel, and the girls wear braids and tights etc. Our kids are the most popular and very well behaved kids in the day camp for summer (Satmar) but the year-round schools don’t care
Tough situation to comment on. But with all the schools x having a plan and approach in place to deal with students who fall thru the cracks. And the rejection rate bring so high. I HV a very hard time siding with the school.
To destroy evidence and a person’s reputation seems very questionable — Why delete the picture? It is now one person’s word against another’s> Maybe we need a lie detector? It may not be admissable in court but it may help.
I know nothing of the facts here, nor the legal issues, nor the relevant laws themselves. However, it is with gratitude to HKB”H that I watch the matter play out in court, in full view of the public. Why? Because the yeshiva/bais yaakov schools have been throwing out students at alarming rates, citing the “kedusha” of the school environment. This is opposite of all the guidance from Gedolei Yisroel, who require the yeshiva/school to insure the talmid/oh never ends up in the street, that there has been some form of adjudication by rabbonim that are knowledgeable about chinuch and the relevant subject matter, who are also objective (not connected to the yeshiva in any way). This guidance is virtually never followed. Gedolei Yisroel have also weighed in on the barbaric practice of throwing kids to the street/public school for outstanding tuition (from those who have hardship). Do yeshivos listen to this? Rarely if ever. This court proceeding, regardless of the outcome, will make yeshivos think twice before expelling a student. That would be a victory for Klal Yisroel.
If a kid has an issue, deal with it. Or move the kid to a more suitable yeshiva.
Goldberg described her as a troubled girl…..
If LBY is a school that teaches torah to our girls then they must be held to a higher standard and should not allow their attorney to talk about a bas Yisroel in the public arena in this way
The arrogance of the school just shows who they really are. Any other school in this predicament would have figured out a way to settle with the parents and make this go away asap.
I think this enough of an indication of who these people really are
I would love to hear from more parents what they think about this
this reminds me of the guy that defended his right of way and turned out to be dead right. (the other guy was dead wrong). this case is so unfortunate because both families will suffer horribly as will the image of this excellent school. what a shame.
very sad
Thank you, VIN, for continuing to keep us up to date concerning this matter. I hope the family sees this through to the end. Sue this school for all it has, close it down and all others like it!
Unfortunately, this story is all too common…..an overzelous Principal who has high aspirations for herself so she’ll step on anybody to get there. Listen to Ted Hour Podcast about Maslow’s heiarchy. These people are stuck at a very low rung and never reach Self Actualiztions. Nebech on us!!
Too bad there are no Rabbis worth their salt ready to speak out on this or at least do something meaningful to help out our precious neshamos. Unfortunately, teens in public school are treated better. Ho Hum…. let’s concentrate on other important matters……
Having read all the comments posted relating to this story, I find one omission glaring – who speaks for Klall Yisroel? There is obvious pain here- the girl,her parents, the school administration and the community at large. We have and have had a problem in our schools for many years with children who don’t or can’t perform up to expectations. This dissonance , caused by a multitude of reasons both psychological, physical and financial , leads to a painful path for these children and their families. Boys and girls, alone and in groups, act out in ways that harm themselves AND OUR COMMUNITY. We should not descend into finger-pointing – we must responsibly find creative alternatives and preventive measures that account for our childrens’ differences. Perhaps this case will finally prod us into responsible action.
Expelling a student today is pretty much a guarantee the child will never get into a decent school and puts them at serious risk of going off the derech. We need a process where a respected community member needs to agree expulsion is the only solution and alternatives explored before there is even talk of expulsion. We are talking about our children and this can happen in any family so no one should be too harsh about judging these children.
All the schools should shut down. They know one thing is how to take your money they don’t teach your kids anything anymore.The ppl working in the school or the heads don’t care about you any more its just about them!!!!!!!
Reply to# 1 you say das tora were is there das tora
Bais Din ruled.
The schools can’t be given carte blanch to do as they please, there must be checks and balances.
The courts will have to address it.
The most dangerous word is “trust me”.
That’s what the schools say, Yidi K. says don’t trust them.
Goldberg described her as a troubled girl…..
If LBY is a school that teaches torah to our girls then they must be held to a higher standard and should not allow their attorney to talk about a bas Yisroel in the public arena in this way
The arrogance of the school just shows who they really are. Any other school in this predicament would have figured out a way to settle with the parents and make this go away asap.
I think this enough of an indication of who these people really are
I would love to hear from more parents what they think about this
The system is corrupt and so you have corrupt people with no accountability doing whatever they want. It is one thing to expel a student based on hearsay, presumably the school has a right to retain and expel at will. However it is quite another thing to send out a libelous, defamatory, and reputation destroying email. The balance of power in our schools is totally tilted in favor of the schools with parents having no say,control, or recourse. It is a situation that is ideal for abuse of parents and children. The other example that comes to mind is the girls schools In Israel where they recently had to get rid of the Owner/Dean because his nefarious exploits were finally exposed. And of course lets not forget a certain school on Ocean Parkway near 18th Avenue. We could go on and on. The bottom line is it is long past time for major reform and overhaul. Please excuse the use of the word reform.
The school may have been quite right to expel the girl based on normative standards expected in a Beis Yakov School. However that means that someone with broad shoulders and an open – open not cheap or closed – mind should have seen the picture and decided based on the evidence what to do. As it is, this Beis Yakov deserves whatever it has coming to it, and from the Judge’s remarks that is going to be a lot of opprobrium at the least.
So the girls in this school, who are being sent there to learn hilchos lashon hara, being dan lkaf zchus, and true chesed, ie: being considerate of people who are more disadvantaged, including those who may have learning challenges and are not as smart as you, are supposed to learn those things from this story?????
What happened to having two witness’. One eid is not accepted. An anonymous phone call. For all we know it is bogus. For all we know, another student in the school or another girl in the community had a fall out with this girl and made the call to get back at her or to be vindictive.
I thought the person [accuser] giving this testimony needs to face off with the accused.
Throwing a student out of a school into a lions den is RETZICA.
All these mechanchim, school administration and school leadership have innocent blood on their hands.
To #38 Can you prove that the girl sent the picture? That is all I ask!!
May G.S. Be MATZLIACH in her case and win. The yentas behind this slander should be exposed and punished.
I have no problem with what the school did. If this girl was causing trouble and bring down the class or the school name they have every right to expel her. They don’t need cause, this is like employment at will or going to a sporting event where they could expel you at any moment without cause.
Once I heard about this story I registered my daughter there for next year. Why should my daughter go to a school where there are troubled kids in her class? Its about time a school had a back bone and removed these troubled kids before they could do damage to other kids in their class.
I personally don’t know Mrs Oratz, but any school that puts kids ahead of dollar signs is a school I want my kids attending.
If everyone who trashed Mrs Oratz on the original post will now come forth an apologize to her?
Among the many issues discussed here, it seems that much attention is given to a supposed picture that was allegedly sent by the girl to the boy. Since the supposed picture was erased, there is no picture, period. On top of that, anybody semi-adept at using Photoshop programs can easily compose an inappropriate pictures of Mrs. Oratz, before and after she was married, together with other persons in inappropriate situations, and have the pictures sent to all the parents of the school. Flyers containing the pictures could easily be dropped off in the streets around the school, around her home, and around the Shul where she davens. Mrs. Oratz will always have the public opportunity, in court and elsewhere, to definitively prove that the picture is not really her (she has a mole in an unmentionable area) and that, of course, she would never have had such a picture taken of her. Of course, many casual observers may not accept her protestations and they will legitimately demand that she be dismissed and put out on the street. No one wants such a person in a position of responsibility in a religious girls school. Not even Judge Reyes would defend her.
There is a well known tale of a talmud in Mirrer Yeshiva that didn’t behave properly Some one went to Reb Shmuel Birnbaum ZT’L and asked to have the boy removed from the yeshiva. Reb Shmuel said” you should fast 40 days just for asking such a question.” later that boy became a good student above others.
thanks to the rabbeim and yeshivas who put our son on the street he is still there and there is no mechila and no going back there are so many fabulous ways that our mechanchim can handle these situations this is happening for a reason, so we should learn , where are the therapists where are the gedolei yisroel to help out who did the yeshiva turn to to help this precious neshama, how many more do we have to lose
You know what the saddest part is? That this story is so believable. I’m not in the least bit shocked by this.
An observation to the LBY backers: has it occurred to any of you that these are children we are discussing imperfect unfinished impulsive beings trying to make sense out of themselves and the world around them. Children come to school to be molded and formed and helped. To dismiss and toss the “troubled” girls is a shame for if you do your job you may find you have helped to develop a productive member of society and an Ehrlich bas yisrael
Obviously, I don’t know any more than I read here, so I can’t comment on what might or might not have truly happened re any photo, or what transpired with this young lady before. However, I find it disturbing that an unsubstantiated, anonymous complaint seemingly resulted in expelling a child.
There are many girls out there who just don’t fit the mold of the school. Not all (& I should know!) are “problems.” Our students have chosen to come to our school in Jerusalem (from chutz l’aaretz as well) because we take a different approach to chinuch. We build a box around the girls, we don’t try to squeeze them into ours. We encourage creativity (arts, drama etc) and make ALL learning come alive. Our teachers do not read out of a textbook – their enthusiastic, hands-on approach and small classes help every girl reach her potential.
I don’t know if a lawsuit is the way to go, but I sympathize with the parents’ dilemma. They need the “right” school for GS. I urge them to investigate schools that are sensitive to the needs of the child. If a girl is going OTD, I recommend Telamim in Jerusalem – it is remarkable! You can learn about Machon Menucha at http://www.mmgirls.org. Hatzlacha!
I wouldn’t be surprised if all these comments are posted by the parents MS and GS themselves or from parents who when called by the school regarding issues with their son or daughter thought that there was something more important for them to do then listen.. Only when the fire starts do they wake up. I for one cant wait until 2 years from now to register my daughter in LBY
I know that VIN doesn’t like to post links. But hopefully they’ll make an exception.
In the merit of Shalom, Shabbos, and Klal Yisrael, everyone who has been posting here needs to listen to this story told by Shlomo Carlebach and spend Shabbos meditating on the deep meaning. https://youtu.be/vvpB6Pput4M
Okay. I do not know these details, but I know that there are certain children that should not nor cannot be in private Bais Yaakov or similar school because of behavioral issues. One bad student can literally bring down the whole class to her level. The misbehaving student is looked at as a “cool” rebel and all the other girls will try to follow her lead. I have seen it happen. At some point, the school has to put its foot down and expel the student or tell them not to return the next year. And that almost always solves the problem. It does not have to be documented to know that a student is a bad influence on the class. It is usually very clear. Unfortunately, the needs of the many sometimes outweigh the needs of the few. Their are many options for on line schooling nowadays, and also for on line limudei kodesh education as well. Not a great option, but how can you sacrifice a whole class for one bad influence student? I feel for every child that cannot get a “normal” Jewish education, but other options need to be looked at such as on-line or private tutoring.
I had a son in high school who simply didn’t see eye to eye with the new Rosh yeshiva. Not that he did anything wrong, it was more of a personality difference. The Rosh Yeshiva felt that was enough of a reason to kick my son out of yeshiva after the year was over and to make matters worse, when I finally found a yeshiva that would take him(As most won’t take somebody who was thrown out), he called the yeshiva not to take him. When I confronted him ,his answer was ,I’m doing this על פי דעת תורה. Still today he thinks there is nothing wrong throwing a bachur out on street if he doesn’t conform to his expectations. He considers his yeshiva as a private business .
The educators have no education. They don’t have the tools to be mechanich a normal child much less a child with so called issues.
This particular school is a for profit entity will no oversight by daas torah.
The administrator/director was a real estate operator who thought a girls school would be profitable.
Shame on them for expelling a Jewish child.
Shame on us for allowing this to happen .
For the school year to start and tell Mrs Oratz to keep her head up and keep on doing the great job she is doing as a M’chanich of young girls.