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New York - OpEd: The Reason I, As A Charedi Jew, Have Been Silent About The Iran Deal

Published on: August 31, 2015 12:25 PM
By: Rabbi Joel Labin
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Rabbi Joel Labin (JDN)Rabbi Joel Labin (JDN)

New York - I have been silent about the Iran deal. I didn’t protest in the streets. I didn’t sponsor ads in The New York Times. It’s not because I lack concern or that I care less about the Jewish people. I am soundless because that is, in my view, the right thing to do.

I am not silent because I know less than those who are vocal about it; I have as much interest as them. I am concerned about it like every good Jew who is worried about his people.

I am not silent because I believe in the deal; I don’t.

I am silent because I can’t know for sure what the real solution is. I cannot let shallow arguments and politically driven agendas lead me when the lives of my brothers are at stake.

In his wonderful book on the Holocaust Churban Europe (Destruction of Europe), Rabbi Afraim Oshri z’’l, wrote about his Rabbi, a giant of Torah Rav Abraham Kahane Shapiro— the author of the Dvar Avrohon and Rosh Yeshiva Kovnotells that when the Nazis established the camps and the ghettos, they created a system of local Jewish leadership, known as Judenrat. These “councils” of Jewish leaders were meant to keep order and make the destruction of local Jewish populations easier and more manageable. The evil Nazis—with their obsession of monstrous control— wanted to make their death machine effective. The Judenrat, in their stead, had the indescribable mission of deciding which lives to save and which lives to give over to the genocidal Germans. The Judenrat knew that if they did not follow their cruel orders and intervene, the Nazis would kill the whole local Jewish population. Knowing that their role was in unenviable one, they played God, choosing people to live based on whether one was “work worthy” and give up others who weren’t fit to work the arduous slave labor the German war machine needed to sustain their disastrous military campaigns.

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Rabbi Shapiro told his followers, the Orthodox Jewish activists, not to be part of the Judenrat, explaining that you need to let people die in that position! We, people of faith and Torah, can’t make these decisions in seconds. Let non-religious Jews make these decisions based on health and natural momentarily logic. Whatever they find best in the awful circumstances, they can do without all the doubt that an observant Jew would have.”

***

8.3 million people live in Israel of which 6.3 million are Jews. Should the Iran deal be passed by Congress, and if we are to believe Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the Republican Party and the mainstream of Israeli leadership, millions of those Jewish Israeli lives will be in danger.  And if we are to believe President Obama, most of the Democratic Party and those on the Israeli political left that if the Iran deal should fail, millions of Israeli lives will be in danger. If we are skeptical of both sides, these lives will still be in danger, if not from a nuclear apocalypse, then certainly from regular acts of terror and war.

Eight million lives is way too much lives to make it a political festival. Eight million lives is too much for me to jump to conclusions and be vocal about, when I know that I don’t know enough.

How to deal with Iran is an extraordinarily difficult question, even for non-Jews to wrestle. It involves so many factors that only few people can thoroughly understand: those who have a clear view of the issue, experts who have real data and intelligence, and an understanding of the science of nuclear capability. Indeed,  the options of Israel and the free world to handle the situation at any given moment, the political and social dynamics within Iran (a state where most of the people are totally not as extreme as their hateful leaders), and the potential of inspections from an supposedly unbiased third party referee are issues wholly incomprehensible to those without the intimate knowledge of the region and it’s minute, complicated inner cultural logic.

I would defer expert opinion to only those who have an idea of the bigger picture, who possess a real strategic view and perhaps a financial understanding on how far the sanctions can reach. Any prediction on how the unpredictable Russian President Vladimir Putin and his allies will handle the passage of the deal would be helpful, as would any foresight into Iran’s inner political movements. A military perspective on this deal would be vital, as would alternatives to the potential deal. For me, only someone who knows it all or might know what the right call of action is would be a helpful ally. Of course, Obama and Netanyahu claim they know…

However, I admit that I dont know. I feel that my friends who are protesting in the street don’t know, or all the self proclaimed “experts” who rise from local politics, who usually spend their time on ideas on how to handle the neighborhood sanitation system don’t truly know either. And even they feel they have the issue sorted in their heart, how they dare jump and campaign on such a big, life-threatening issue!

We are witnessing a sad reality, where every Jewish activist is outspoken on the issue. Every Jewish organization from the JDL to Neturei Karta, from J Street to the local Chabad house: Everyone have a strong opinion! As we know from the ancient Jewish proverb: “Two Jews, Three opinions”… everyone knows the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth! And every politician working on the issues is working under enormous pressure to vote the way some their Jewish constituents—from both sides of the political spectrum—sees the issue.

What we are seeing is an unhealthy condemnation dance, where every knacker is condemning his fellow macher and then the knakers friend with an office in the city is criticizing the macher for condemning the knaker who criticized the shvitzer …  We should sing it with the tune of Chad Gadya!

As a religious Jew, I can’t admire those who don’t care for our brothers in Israel and I can’t understand those who don’t have enough humbleness and self-awareness to doubt the judgment of outside critical voices. The ability to question a high-speed created conclusion, mainly made by political worldview, needs to be understood, not criticized at the outset.

These are my humble observations: the Reform Jewish movement chose their liberal agenda over the faith of the Jewish people and their progressive image over the survival of the Jewish nation. The Zionist movement chose to follow the leadership in Israel and their affiliation with the Republican line.

Yet, I don’t know what it will happen. As a lover of my Jewish brothers, especially those who visit the land of Israel annually and pray three times a day for Zion, I am thinking a lot about the dangerous consequences of the deal. I am worried. I pray anxiously for the survival of my brothers. I don’t want to see war, even if it ends with a clear defeat of the evil within Iran. A Jew cannot hope for bloodshed. I wish the deal works out, but I am not naïve and know it’s wishful thinking that there might be a big chances it will not succeed as intended.

For me, it makes no difference if you embrace Zionism or you see it as a negative movement, the threat is the same: the Iranian technology isn’t sophisticated enough to separate Zionists from non-Zionists, from Jews or non-Jews, from Muslims that are Arab or Persian, from Kurds or Bedouins…. The threat surrounds us all, for this is an issue fundamentally of security, not politics.

The vast majority of Orthodox Jews are concerned. Our silence shouldn’t be construed as a consequence of apathy nor laziness. Ideology against “Zionism-as-an-idea is, by most of us, just that. It is not, in any case, a disconnection from Jewish fate. We are silent, but our hearts are full of worry, of hope and of concern; of brotherhood, seriousness and humility.

As an American Jew, I choose to stay mostly quiet. I don’t know what is the best for my people, but I do know that I can’t go against my people and I can’t go against my country. So what should all my fellow Jewish activists do? We should follow the prophet Jeremiah, who said: “It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the Lord.”

Rabbi Joel Labin is the founder of numerous Jewish relief organizations, He is a altruistic kidney donor and activist for live organ donation, a voice for humanitarian values within the Charedi Community, as well as a popular columnist in Yiddish publications. Rabbi Labin lives in Borough Park, Brooklyn with his wife and six children.



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Read Comments (51)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Aug 31, 2015 at 12:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Should of remained silent! It is obvious that this self proclaimed spokesman for those who remain silent does not know what a democracy is. Painting the brush as choosing between my country and my people is no naïve. The American system of government gives us the legal right to lobby our representatives against the deal. should the deal be voted down by the elected bodies of congress does not mean that the congressman and senators committed treason. NOT SURE WHAY VIN would post such an uninformed uneducated piece of work.

2

 Aug 31, 2015 at 12:41 PM Andrew Says:

Nice sounding words. But -- i think one has to put one's brain on hold to think this deal is going to make the world (and especially) Israel safer.

Does Rabbi Labin take a position on anything? Surely there are always people who know more who think otherwise.

This is a poor reasoning for an excuse to do nothing when the consequences are dire.

And in the chareidi community there are many who DO take strong positions -- even going into the streets -- when causes near to them are challenged.

Years from now, we will have to account for our actions and inaction..

3

 Aug 31, 2015 at 12:43 PM Erlich Says:

During the Holocaust years, the Rabbonim did protest in FDR's Washington.

4

 Aug 31, 2015 at 12:47 PM Godol-Hador Says:

He writes well, waxes poetically but basically says one thing.
And it's a childish view
"I don't know so I will keep my mouth shut."

He goes on and on repeating the same drosho,
he knows it's a dangerous deal but he'd rather just sit and do nothing
Because that's the easy way out.

He criticizes well meaning Jews who care as much but since they are in pain and fear they scream

This rabbi reminds me of the Jewish establishment in the begining years of WW2. They also didn't know anything so they also kept quiet

Sounds really "smart"

5

 Aug 31, 2015 at 12:54 PM Moish Says:

Based on this logic one would refrain from voting as well taking the entire bigger picture and the consequences into effect. The problem today is that as much as the President does not know how to respectfully disagree with his opponents, negotiate and find common ground to establish an acceptable compromise, and bullies his view on numerous issues, so too his adversaries are left with no choice but to come out stronger against his opinions, ideas and policies that are based on his misconstrued realities.

6

 Aug 31, 2015 at 12:57 PM Maven Says:

Seems like a great article but i cant figure out exactly the point he is trying to make.

There is a very important thing he left out. Which is the Zionist establishment under different organizations orchestrated a campaign against president Obama.That is a very dangerous precedent for the entire Jewish population.It is even more scary when frum looking Jews are in the forefront in this ugly campaign against Obama.

Netanyahu with his tactics is doing everything in his power to make Jews in America uncomfortable and therefore being forced to move to Israel.

Deal or no deal, i have no clue. One thing is for sure,anything done against the almighty doesn't do us any good. Israel was created against the will of Hashem. There isn't a day that goes by without Israel in the news.

Im not Neturei Karta ,just an observant Jew.

7

 Aug 31, 2015 at 01:02 PM ellye Says:

Ah, thats smart. Put your head in the sand and stay there. IF G-d willing everythinbg works out correctly you can say" I told you so", and if not, you'll be saying, what me? Silly article.

8

 Aug 31, 2015 at 01:10 PM I don't get it Says:

Reply to #4  
Godol-Hador Says:

He writes well, waxes poetically but basically says one thing.
And it's a childish view
"I don't know so I will keep my mouth shut."

He goes on and on repeating the same drosho,
he knows it's a dangerous deal but he'd rather just sit and do nothing
Because that's the easy way out.

He criticizes well meaning Jews who care as much but since they are in pain and fear they scream

This rabbi reminds me of the Jewish establishment in the begining years of WW2. They also didn't know anything so they also kept quiet

Sounds really "smart"

Your own summary is that the op-ed writer is saying, "I don't know so I will keep my mouth shut"; then you proceed to characterize that as a "childish view".

מילה בסלע, משתוקא בתרין - מסכת מגילה

כל ימי גדלתי בין החכמים ולא מצאתי לגוף טוב משתיקה - מסכת אבות

9

 Aug 31, 2015 at 01:17 PM golani Says:

sounds to me like he has no clue period.The iran deal affects all of us jews and non-jews ,americans and israelis .these nazis are terrorists and will use the money to fund terror around the world so all this zionism talk has nothing to do with reality which is when they call out DEATH TO AMERICA AND DEATH TO ISRAEL !!!!

10

 Aug 31, 2015 at 01:21 PM Anonymous Says:

There are many of us who hold a contrarian view and honestly believe that this will be shown to be a good deal for the US and EY in the long-term and should be approved. I don't agree with the author that silence is the right course given uncertainty in the outcome. You need the courage of your convictions. Obama will be cursed in the short-term but a decade from now, he will be recognized as a visionary who extracted the best possible deal

11

 Aug 31, 2015 at 01:21 PM albroker Says:

JDL and Neturei Karta both oppose the anti-Jewish CURRENT israeli government so why lump them as 2 opposites?

12

 Aug 31, 2015 at 12:42 PM Joel "Joyland" Wertzberger Says:

Rabbi Labin, It's time to start knowing and stop advocating "not knowing". Not knowing in itself is a travesty. You see; I dont have to publish an OpEd! For, as a businessman minding my own business I'm not expected to "Know". You have rightfully earned yourself a reputation and a title as a Jewish Leader by fighting for our people's rights. Jewish leadership, which today you are part of, has a duty to "Know". If you dont, you busy yourself with mundane issues while Jewish civilization is at risk. While you are entitled to do whatever you want. By definition you loose your title and your right to write on the subject. Leadership has to form opinion and choose sides. Laymen can afford not knowing!

13

 Aug 31, 2015 at 01:51 PM golani Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

There are many of us who hold a contrarian view and honestly believe that this will be shown to be a good deal for the US and EY in the long-term and should be approved. I don't agree with the author that silence is the right course given uncertainty in the outcome. You need the courage of your convictions. Obama will be cursed in the short-term but a decade from now, he will be recognized as a visionary who extracted the best possible deal

Great deal? I think it's a good idea you be quiet since you have no clue period.

14

 Aug 31, 2015 at 01:53 PM Mentsch613 Says:

I support the author.
10 years ago Rabbi Reisman told a personal story at his motzei shabbos shiur. He was sitting on a plane next to a young man (during the soviet union era) and the young man wanted to know what orthodox jews are doing to prevent nuclear war. Rabbi Reisman answered that he "has a deal with God. Stopping nuclear war is outside our hishtadlus. All an orthodox jew can do is prevent war by working on himself.
I do not know what Rabbi Reisman feels about the Iran deal. But when I see everyone on this site commenting I can only think that these comments sound like "koach v'otzem yadi". Our ability to stop nuclear war is not in calling our congressman. Its in working on ourselves and doing mitzvos. We didn't stop Haman by calling the local congressman, we stopped him with tshuva.
If you think that stopping Iran and protecting Israel will happen with activism, you are delusional with a false hashkafah.
If you believe that you can change the course of history with a good Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, then you are a torah true yid.

15

 Aug 31, 2015 at 02:00 PM Maven Says:

If not for Israel this whole debate about Iran wouldn't exists.
From day one Israel has been a problem for Jews.

Torah Jews must tell the non-Jewish world that Israel with its PM Netanyahu does not speak on behalf of Jews.
There are tens of thousands of observant Torah Jews who follow the teachings of all previous real Gedolim who want nothing to do with Israel/Zionism.
The more antisemitism the more successful Israel and Zionism will be.

The holy Chofatz Chaim said that the zionist are amalekites.

16

 Aug 31, 2015 at 02:02 PM Godol-Hador Says:

Reply to #8  
I don't get it Says:

Your own summary is that the op-ed writer is saying, "I don't know so I will keep my mouth shut"; then you proceed to characterize that as a "childish view".

מילה בסלע, משתוקא בתרין - מסכת מגילה

כל ימי גדלתי בין החכמים ולא מצאתי לגוף טוב משתיקה - מסכת אבות

Typical AM Haratzus

You don't begin to understand the meaning of the gemoro and mishna you brought down

17

 Aug 31, 2015 at 02:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Some commenters here, including the author are of questionable intelligence, not because I disagree but because of clear ignorance of facts. Rav Moshe Sternbuch shlit"a holds that we should be absolutely silent about the Iran Deal. I disagree, but his reasoning is sound, and he is not sounding stupid. I am bored beyond limits when some write that we need to depend on HKB"H, etc. I will never minimize Emunoh or Bitachon. But to do so without hishtadlus is not the Ratzon Hashem either. The case of Haman was quite different. Achashveirosh was an absolute monarch, and he handed over the power of life/death to Haman. We don't have a king. We have a government in which we elect representatives to vote for our benefit. And when we see them veering from that, we are expected to act. Back to Megilah - ואם החרש תחרישי בעת הזאת, even Mordechai knew it was time for hishtadlus. Yes, daven, strengthen mitzvos, teshuvah. Don't be the idiot that expects HKB"H to compensate for the hishtadlus we fail to do.

18

 Aug 31, 2015 at 02:43 PM I don't get it Says:

Reply to #16  
Godol-Hador Says:

Typical AM Haratzus

You don't begin to understand the meaning of the gemoro and mishna you brought down

Maybe he doesn't know the sources inside, but I think I do, and I it seems to me that his use of the sources is appropriate. Why do you think those sources don't apply to this case?

20

 Aug 31, 2015 at 03:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Mentsch613 Says:

I support the author.
10 years ago Rabbi Reisman told a personal story at his motzei shabbos shiur. He was sitting on a plane next to a young man (during the soviet union era) and the young man wanted to know what orthodox jews are doing to prevent nuclear war. Rabbi Reisman answered that he "has a deal with God. Stopping nuclear war is outside our hishtadlus. All an orthodox jew can do is prevent war by working on himself.
I do not know what Rabbi Reisman feels about the Iran deal. But when I see everyone on this site commenting I can only think that these comments sound like "koach v'otzem yadi". Our ability to stop nuclear war is not in calling our congressman. Its in working on ourselves and doing mitzvos. We didn't stop Haman by calling the local congressman, we stopped him with tshuva.
If you think that stopping Iran and protecting Israel will happen with activism, you are delusional with a false hashkafah.
If you believe that you can change the course of history with a good Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, then you are a torah true yid.

With all the Tefilos we still needed a Mordechai and Esther...

21

 Aug 31, 2015 at 03:12 PM md2205 Says:

Reply to #18  
I don't get it Says:

Maybe he doesn't know the sources inside, but I think I do, and I it seems to me that his use of the sources is appropriate. Why do you think those sources don't apply to this case?

Because then we wouldn't ever have to do anything. All we would do is be quiet and sit and do nothing always. It is to be applied to perfecting one's middos; not to acting when something needs to be done.

22

 Aug 31, 2015 at 03:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
I don't get it Says:

Your own summary is that the op-ed writer is saying, "I don't know so I will keep my mouth shut"; then you proceed to characterize that as a "childish view".

מילה בסלע, משתוקא בתרין - מסכת מגילה

כל ימי גדלתי בין החכמים ולא מצאתי לגוף טוב משתיקה - מסכת אבות

When Rabbi Labin found it important to write the op-ed he gave up the CHOCHMO of Shtika.. He is silent no more even though he's got nothing to say...

23

 Aug 31, 2015 at 03:18 PM Godol-Hador Says:

Reply to #14  
Mentsch613 Says:

I support the author.
10 years ago Rabbi Reisman told a personal story at his motzei shabbos shiur. He was sitting on a plane next to a young man (during the soviet union era) and the young man wanted to know what orthodox jews are doing to prevent nuclear war. Rabbi Reisman answered that he "has a deal with God. Stopping nuclear war is outside our hishtadlus. All an orthodox jew can do is prevent war by working on himself.
I do not know what Rabbi Reisman feels about the Iran deal. But when I see everyone on this site commenting I can only think that these comments sound like "koach v'otzem yadi". Our ability to stop nuclear war is not in calling our congressman. Its in working on ourselves and doing mitzvos. We didn't stop Haman by calling the local congressman, we stopped him with tshuva.
If you think that stopping Iran and protecting Israel will happen with activism, you are delusional with a false hashkafah.
If you believe that you can change the course of history with a good Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, then you are a torah true yid.

Tell that to all the kolel yungeleit in israel who have been begging, threatning and screaming at their "rabbis and leaders" to change the draconian financial cuts their govt imposed.
Tell them to start with a good RH and YK
Let's see how far that gets you

24

 Aug 31, 2015 at 03:34 PM Mentsch613 Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

Some commenters here, including the author are of questionable intelligence, not because I disagree but because of clear ignorance of facts. Rav Moshe Sternbuch shlit"a holds that we should be absolutely silent about the Iran Deal. I disagree, but his reasoning is sound, and he is not sounding stupid. I am bored beyond limits when some write that we need to depend on HKB"H, etc. I will never minimize Emunoh or Bitachon. But to do so without hishtadlus is not the Ratzon Hashem either. The case of Haman was quite different. Achashveirosh was an absolute monarch, and he handed over the power of life/death to Haman. We don't have a king. We have a government in which we elect representatives to vote for our benefit. And when we see them veering from that, we are expected to act. Back to Megilah - ואם החרש תחרישי בעת הזאת, even Mordechai knew it was time for hishtadlus. Yes, daven, strengthen mitzvos, teshuvah. Don't be the idiot that expects HKB"H to compensate for the hishtadlus we fail to do.

I also disagree with causing a nation pain because of their leaders. It is not the jewish way to cause pain.
Look at Cuba, we placed an embargo for decades, causing tremendous suffering, and for what?
Why do we need to cause such pain to all the Iranians?
To tell me they are anti-semites and deserve it, is not hashkafically correct.
To tell me this is self defense, I will argue prove it. North Korea has the bomb for years, and he is truly crazy. Nothing has happened.
Pakistan and India are at each others throat and nothing has happened.
You can not tell me "something will happen!" If Hashem doesn't want it to happen it wont, and if he does, they will find a bomb somewhere (it can't be too hard to buy one from the old soviet union)
All we can do is act correctly, and causing suffering to an entire nation (or any of the constant meddling that America does to other nations) is not the jewish way

25

 Aug 31, 2015 at 04:00 PM Mentsch613 Says:

Reply to #20  
Anonymous Says:

With all the Tefilos we still needed a Mordechai and Esther...

But first came the tefillos. First came the massive tshuva movement.
Here everyone is more interested in political activism as the means.
And there is no death sentence here. I find it hard to believe that Israel will be in any greater danger with a nuclear Iran than a non nuclear Iran.
Israel has always been in danger from its neighbors.

26

 Aug 31, 2015 at 04:25 PM One million percent Right Says:

I wish all Charaidi Rabonim explain it to the members.

27

 Aug 31, 2015 at 03:12 PM Godol-Hador Says:

Reply to #18  
I don't get it Says:

Maybe he doesn't know the sources inside, but I think I do, and I it seems to me that his use of the sources is appropriate. Why do you think those sources don't apply to this case?

I don't you know it either.
Look in all the meforshei hamishna there and you may begin to realize the parameters of what the Tanna is referring to

And as one commentor here aptly asked.
Is this person ALWAYS quiet? Or only when it suits his ideology?

In the author of this foolish op-ed's opinion we are never to voice (or peacefully protest) any action or non action by our govt. I'm waiting to hear the implications of that.
When Agudas yisroel or another worthy organization protests against a potentially harmful financial "decree" ie stipends etc by either the US or Israeli govt
When a worthy organization protests against prohibiting milah or schitah does the adage "tov mishtikah" etc also apply??

Don't even bother answering.

BTW, the admitted and acknowledged unknown and secret components of this deal are so ridiculous everybody besides avowed liberals are shaking their heads and not understanding what our great leader is doing

28

 Aug 31, 2015 at 04:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
Mentsch613 Says:

But first came the tefillos. First came the massive tshuva movement.
Here everyone is more interested in political activism as the means.
And there is no death sentence here. I find it hard to believe that Israel will be in any greater danger with a nuclear Iran than a non nuclear Iran.
Israel has always been in danger from its neighbors.

I apologize for my sarcasm but you must be of the few privileged that are close tou our esteemed president and you know more details than Senator Schumer and others that think that this is a dangerous deal..

29

 Aug 31, 2015 at 04:48 PM Nycnyc Says:

Bottom line is we are at fault. We don't register to vote. Over a quarter million religious jews don't even register to vote and then cry when the liberals try to destroy us. If we had politicians who depended on our vote for survival they would vote our views.

30

 Aug 31, 2015 at 04:48 PM I don't get it Says:

Reply to #21  
md2205 Says:

Because then we wouldn't ever have to do anything. All we would do is be quiet and sit and do nothing always. It is to be applied to perfecting one's middos; not to acting when something needs to be done.

You've misunderstood the sugyot. The issue is simply - if you don't know what you're talking about, be quiet; if you are an intellectual inferior, keep quiet; even if you do know what you're talking about, and you're intellectually superior, it's often better to keep quiet (from Pesachim - Yaffe shtika lachachamim, kal vechomer, letipshim).

Maybe modern politically correct education is to blame for this misunderstanding - we've stopped teaching kids at a young age that grades in school matter, and that if you're a C, D, or failing student academically, that says something about you, and needs to inform your behaviour in life and stature in society. Nowadays, all kids are "lake wobegone" children, and everyone gets trophies if only they just show up.

31

 Aug 31, 2015 at 05:11 PM Mentsch613 Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

I apologize for my sarcasm but you must be of the few privileged that are close tou our esteemed president and you know more details than Senator Schumer and others that think that this is a dangerous deal..

I don't take my hashkafic cues from Schumer. Just like I don't take them from Bibi.

32

 Aug 31, 2015 at 05:15 PM jsjcbs Says:

Reply to #15  
Maven Says:

If not for Israel this whole debate about Iran wouldn't exists.
From day one Israel has been a problem for Jews.

Torah Jews must tell the non-Jewish world that Israel with its PM Netanyahu does not speak on behalf of Jews.
There are tens of thousands of observant Torah Jews who follow the teachings of all previous real Gedolim who want nothing to do with Israel/Zionism.
The more antisemitism the more successful Israel and Zionism will be.

The holy Chofatz Chaim said that the zionist are amalekites.

Oh stop it. Most gedolim of the last 50-100 years lived in Israel. You may not support the medinah but having Israel has allowed Yeshivas and Jewish life to prosper. Stop spitting back what you learned in cheder and think for yourself.

33

 Aug 31, 2015 at 05:30 PM Mentsch613 Says:

Rav Akiva Tatz points out an interesting "contradiction". On Purim when we were physically threatened our response was tefilla. on chanukah when our neshamos were threatened our response was to take up arms.
As a general rule, the only thing in our hands is "yiras shemayim" . when our neshama is at stake we need to take up arms. When our guf is at stake we need to work on our yiras shemayim.
Iran is no bigger of a threat to us with nuclear weapons. Hashem is sending us a message to work on our yiras shemayim.

34

 Aug 31, 2015 at 05:47 PM sndinc Says:

Reply to #15  
Maven Says:

If not for Israel this whole debate about Iran wouldn't exists.
From day one Israel has been a problem for Jews.

Torah Jews must tell the non-Jewish world that Israel with its PM Netanyahu does not speak on behalf of Jews.
There are tens of thousands of observant Torah Jews who follow the teachings of all previous real Gedolim who want nothing to do with Israel/Zionism.
The more antisemitism the more successful Israel and Zionism will be.

The holy Chofatz Chaim said that the zionist are amalekites.

with jews like u we dont need anti semites ur one

35

 Aug 31, 2015 at 05:51 PM ber Says:

Reply to #1  
Says:

Should of remained silent! It is obvious that this self proclaimed spokesman for those who remain silent does not know what a democracy is. Painting the brush as choosing between my country and my people is no naïve. The American system of government gives us the legal right to lobby our representatives against the deal. should the deal be voted down by the elected bodies of congress does not mean that the congressman and senators committed treason. NOT SURE WHAY VIN would post such an uninformed uneducated piece of work.

#1 Hippocrite. You Are contradicting yourself. You critcize him because its a democracy and then you say he has no right to say his piece and VIN shoudnt post it

36

 Aug 31, 2015 at 05:48 PM sndinc Says:

Reply to #15  
Maven Says:

If not for Israel this whole debate about Iran wouldn't exists.
From day one Israel has been a problem for Jews.

Torah Jews must tell the non-Jewish world that Israel with its PM Netanyahu does not speak on behalf of Jews.
There are tens of thousands of observant Torah Jews who follow the teachings of all previous real Gedolim who want nothing to do with Israel/Zionism.
The more antisemitism the more successful Israel and Zionism will be.

The holy Chofatz Chaim said that the zionist are amalekites.

stupid writer i know where he woild have beed during the hlocaust silent until being gassed

37

 Aug 31, 2015 at 09:08 PM Godol-Hador Says:

Reply to #15  
Maven Says:

If not for Israel this whole debate about Iran wouldn't exists.
From day one Israel has been a problem for Jews.

Torah Jews must tell the non-Jewish world that Israel with its PM Netanyahu does not speak on behalf of Jews.
There are tens of thousands of observant Torah Jews who follow the teachings of all previous real Gedolim who want nothing to do with Israel/Zionism.
The more antisemitism the more successful Israel and Zionism will be.

The holy Chofatz Chaim said that the zionist are amalekites.

Satmar/ Neturei Karta/ whacko speak. Is as follows:

Torah True Jew/ Rabbi/ Godol = someone who 1) doesn't approve of anything Israel does, says, or tries to do but at same time:
Lives under the protection of its army, gleefuly accepts it's money and health insurance, uses its municipal services, yeshivah stipends, subsidized housing and food
(like 95% of those guys do - don't let anyone fool you that they dont)

A bunch of hypocrites and fools

38

 Aug 31, 2015 at 09:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Maven Says:

Seems like a great article but i cant figure out exactly the point he is trying to make.

There is a very important thing he left out. Which is the Zionist establishment under different organizations orchestrated a campaign against president Obama.That is a very dangerous precedent for the entire Jewish population.It is even more scary when frum looking Jews are in the forefront in this ugly campaign against Obama.

Netanyahu with his tactics is doing everything in his power to make Jews in America uncomfortable and therefore being forced to move to Israel.

Deal or no deal, i have no clue. One thing is for sure,anything done against the almighty doesn't do us any good. Israel was created against the will of Hashem. There isn't a day that goes by without Israel in the news.

Im not Neturei Karta ,just an observant Jew.

One of your sentences was the only accurate one in your whole anti-Jewish rant. "I have no clue." You're right. And you're no maven either, and you're not a Jew, you're NK.

39

 Aug 31, 2015 at 09:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Mentsch613 Says:

I support the author.
10 years ago Rabbi Reisman told a personal story at his motzei shabbos shiur. He was sitting on a plane next to a young man (during the soviet union era) and the young man wanted to know what orthodox jews are doing to prevent nuclear war. Rabbi Reisman answered that he "has a deal with God. Stopping nuclear war is outside our hishtadlus. All an orthodox jew can do is prevent war by working on himself.
I do not know what Rabbi Reisman feels about the Iran deal. But when I see everyone on this site commenting I can only think that these comments sound like "koach v'otzem yadi". Our ability to stop nuclear war is not in calling our congressman. Its in working on ourselves and doing mitzvos. We didn't stop Haman by calling the local congressman, we stopped him with tshuva.
If you think that stopping Iran and protecting Israel will happen with activism, you are delusional with a false hashkafah.
If you believe that you can change the course of history with a good Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, then you are a torah true yid.

Yes, Hashem is responsible for the results, but one major piece missing for your post is, HISHTADLUS! We are obligated to make our human effort and then we trust in Hashem to do the rest. Otherwise, why don't you cross at a red light and expect Hashem to save you from being hit by a car?

40

 Aug 31, 2015 at 09:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
Maven Says:

If not for Israel this whole debate about Iran wouldn't exists.
From day one Israel has been a problem for Jews.

Torah Jews must tell the non-Jewish world that Israel with its PM Netanyahu does not speak on behalf of Jews.
There are tens of thousands of observant Torah Jews who follow the teachings of all previous real Gedolim who want nothing to do with Israel/Zionism.
The more antisemitism the more successful Israel and Zionism will be.

The holy Chofatz Chaim said that the zionist are amalekites.

You seem to be obsessed with your hatred of Israel and Jews. You fool no one, and your group, the vile and and despicable "Torah-true Jews (yeah right)" consists of low lives to the nth degree.

41

 Aug 31, 2015 at 09:32 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

Some commenters here, including the author are of questionable intelligence, not because I disagree but because of clear ignorance of facts. Rav Moshe Sternbuch shlit"a holds that we should be absolutely silent about the Iran Deal. I disagree, but his reasoning is sound, and he is not sounding stupid. I am bored beyond limits when some write that we need to depend on HKB"H, etc. I will never minimize Emunoh or Bitachon. But to do so without hishtadlus is not the Ratzon Hashem either. The case of Haman was quite different. Achashveirosh was an absolute monarch, and he handed over the power of life/death to Haman. We don't have a king. We have a government in which we elect representatives to vote for our benefit. And when we see them veering from that, we are expected to act. Back to Megilah - ואם החרש תחרישי בעת הזאת, even Mordechai knew it was time for hishtadlus. Yes, daven, strengthen mitzvos, teshuvah. Don't be the idiot that expects HKB"H to compensate for the hishtadlus we fail to do.

Beautifully said and exactly right!!!

42

 Aug 31, 2015 at 09:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #34  
sndinc Says:

with jews like u we dont need anti semites ur one

Yes, Maven is an anti Semite. But don't blame him, he got brainwashed by the Torah true Gentiles,

44

 Aug 31, 2015 at 10:30 PM Esther Says:

Reply to #32  
jsjcbs Says:

Oh stop it. Most gedolim of the last 50-100 years lived in Israel. You may not support the medinah but having Israel has allowed Yeshivas and Jewish life to prosper. Stop spitting back what you learned in cheder and think for yourself.

Listen,Maven's just quoting,albeit ad nauseum, the Satmer shita as is Rabbi Labin. Their Rebbes beieve in only showing the utmost support for and agreement with the President and the general powers that be. Personally,I feel strongly that this is so Satmer can continue to reap the benefits of enormous government largess.

45

 Aug 31, 2015 at 11:59 PM Hozen Says:

A year ago all these bums were protesting in Manhattan to stop the Israeli drafting of Charedim but when it comes to the security of your fellow brethren your silent .Everyone in Israel right and left says this is a bad deal and just recently almost 200 military experts signed a petition against this Horrible deal but I Guess they know if its Bad for the Zionist then it must be good and to hell with the 6 million Jews living in Israel .Shame on all these good for nothing silent bums

46

 Sep 01, 2015 at 12:48 AM Anonymous Says:

I think most of you are missing the point. One is entitled to an opinion about political ideas, morality, geopolitical vision and the correct approach to discipline children. You are not entitled to an opinion that contradicts fact or where there are crucial facts that you neither know nor understand. The Nuclear deal is not a football stadium where you bare your fat stomach and shout profanities at the opposing team. The fact that you're on team Bibi doesn't make Obama an anti Semite nor does it put into question the motives of Jews who don't think that killing Arabs is the solution to every problem.

47

 Sep 01, 2015 at 04:33 AM BarryLS1 Says:

Reply to #15  
Maven Says:

If not for Israel this whole debate about Iran wouldn't exists.
From day one Israel has been a problem for Jews.

Torah Jews must tell the non-Jewish world that Israel with its PM Netanyahu does not speak on behalf of Jews.
There are tens of thousands of observant Torah Jews who follow the teachings of all previous real Gedolim who want nothing to do with Israel/Zionism.
The more antisemitism the more successful Israel and Zionism will be.

The holy Chofatz Chaim said that the zionist are amalekites.

Your ignorance is astounding on so many levels. You so blindly HATE Israel and the over 6 million Jews who live here, that the facts never enter your opinions.

Aide from the many Gedolim who supported the creation of the State and the fact that it exists and could have only happened through Yad Hashem, Israel is not the only one fighting against the Iran deal, most of the Arab countries are against it too, but the evil President you love so much chooses to focus on Israel and the American Jews so he can ferment the rise of anti-semitism, of which you aren't immune from either.

48

 Sep 01, 2015 at 10:59 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

There are many of us who hold a contrarian view and honestly believe that this will be shown to be a good deal for the US and EY in the long-term and should be approved. I don't agree with the author that silence is the right course given uncertainty in the outcome. You need the courage of your convictions. Obama will be cursed in the short-term but a decade from now, he will be recognized as a visionary who extracted the best possible deal

this is not the place for comedy!

49

 Sep 01, 2015 at 11:04 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
Maven Says:

If not for Israel this whole debate about Iran wouldn't exists.
From day one Israel has been a problem for Jews.

Torah Jews must tell the non-Jewish world that Israel with its PM Netanyahu does not speak on behalf of Jews.
There are tens of thousands of observant Torah Jews who follow the teachings of all previous real Gedolim who want nothing to do with Israel/Zionism.
The more antisemitism the more successful Israel and Zionism will be.

The holy Chofatz Chaim said that the zionist are amalekites.

you would be funny if you weren't so pathetic and sad.

You write "Torah Jews must tell the non-Jewish world that Israel with its PM Netanyahu does not speak on behalf of Jews."

I have news for you: Netanyahu might not, but YOU for sure don't speak for or on behalf of the Jews.

Who do you think you are to tell "Torah Jews" what they must or musn't do?

Seriously, a nobody like you? Again, really pathetic.

50

 Sep 01, 2015 at 11:06 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #27  
Godol-Hador Says:

I don't you know it either.
Look in all the meforshei hamishna there and you may begin to realize the parameters of what the Tanna is referring to

And as one commentor here aptly asked.
Is this person ALWAYS quiet? Or only when it suits his ideology?

In the author of this foolish op-ed's opinion we are never to voice (or peacefully protest) any action or non action by our govt. I'm waiting to hear the implications of that.
When Agudas yisroel or another worthy organization protests against a potentially harmful financial "decree" ie stipends etc by either the US or Israeli govt
When a worthy organization protests against prohibiting milah or schitah does the adage "tov mishtikah" etc also apply??

Don't even bother answering.

BTW, the admitted and acknowledged unknown and secret components of this deal are so ridiculous everybody besides avowed liberals are shaking their heads and not understanding what our great leader is doing

why would I bother reading the delusional rantings of a commenter who believes himself to be a Godol Hador?

Stupid AND disrespectful! A combination you must surely be proud of!

51

 Sep 01, 2015 at 11:08 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
Godol-Hador Says:

Typical AM Haratzus

You don't begin to understand the meaning of the gemoro and mishna you brought down

yes, why don't you teach it to us, oh holy leader? by the way, you are the only person I have ever heard of who appointed himself a godol hador.

52

 Sep 01, 2015 at 09:12 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
Godol-Hador Says:

Typical AM Haratzus

You don't begin to understand the meaning of the gemoro and mishna you brought down

"Typical AM Haratzus You don't begin to understand the meaning of the gemoro and mishna you brought down"

Although the גמרא in מגילה י"ח ע"א states מלה בסלע משתוקא בתרין (not מילה), what part of that מאמר did Poster #8 not understand that you so brazenly refer to him as an עם הארץ? Your hatred for a fellow Jew is quite reprehensible, you know. Rather than mindlessly spouting the mob mentality of the completely uninformed who are told to hate the President, Rabbi Labin wisely maintains his silence based on what we are taught in פרקי אבות פ"ה which states:

על מה שלא שמע אומר לא שמעתי

You, who have the effrontery to call yourself 'Godol-Hador,' know nothing of the 100 pages of the agreement with Iran, and like so many other unthinking followers are reacting to your hatred of President Obama, and not to the actual issues involved, regardless of how many Jewish נשמות are involved. When you sink to the shameful level of personally attacking those who disagree with your unqualified opinions, it is you who know nothing of ולא מצאתי לגוף טוב אלא שתיקה.

53

 Sep 01, 2015 at 01:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
Maven Says:

If not for Israel this whole debate about Iran wouldn't exists.
From day one Israel has been a problem for Jews.

Torah Jews must tell the non-Jewish world that Israel with its PM Netanyahu does not speak on behalf of Jews.
There are tens of thousands of observant Torah Jews who follow the teachings of all previous real Gedolim who want nothing to do with Israel/Zionism.
The more antisemitism the more successful Israel and Zionism will be.

The holy Chofatz Chaim said that the zionist are amalekites.

You write, "The holy Chofatz Chaim said that the zionist are amalekites.”

So according to you, the Chofetz Chaim instructed us to kill and destroy all the zionists?

Seriously?

54

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