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Mumbai, Israel – The family of Aryeh Leibish Teitelboim, one of six people killed when the Chabad House in Mumbai was attacked by Islamist militants last week, has rejected Israel’s offer to hold an official memorial ceremony for him along with the other Jewish and Israeli fatalities.
The family has also said that it does not want Teitelboim’s coffin wrapped in an Israeli flag before it is boarded onto the plane in India later today, as those of the other Jewish and Israeli victims will be.
Teitelboim’s relatives and members of his Toldot Avraham Yitzhak community have also asked that his coffin not be included in the official ceremony which will be held upon landing at Ben Gurion International Airport.
Teitelboim grew up a member of the Hasidic Satmar sect and married into the Toldot Avraham Yitzhak sect, two communities which oppose Zionism and do not recognize the State of Israel.
Teitelboim, who holds an American passport along with many other Satmar followers in Israel, disavowed his Israeli citizenship despite residing in Jerusalem. His wife and eight children hold Israeli citizenship.
“The murder victim was educated in the ways of Satmar, which opposes the State of Israel,” one of Teitelboim’s relatives said. “How can he turn into a symbol of the State of Israel? The family is very concerned about what will happen here at the ceremony. They are angry about the whole matter, it is a very sensitive issue.”
Teitelboim’s funeral will be held in Jerusalem and is expected to be attended by hundreds of Hasidic followers. The esteemed Toldot Avraham Yitzhak rabbi has cut short his visit to the United States in order to attend.
Oy, to have to go through this after all that has happened! Nebech on the family!!!!
Uhh how about paying for your own plane back to israel then
very sensitive and challenging issue for everyone.
Loz op with our comment’s.
Let Daas Tora decide!
#2 , you just had your loved one murdered? If not then shut up and…
BTW, imegine you are a Jewish American GI, and R”L get killed in duty, andyou reject the American offer to bury ur loved one in Arlington vecause you want to do a halachic burial, will you then “understand” the family?
Although I don’t hold with their views, it’s their right. They lost their husband, son, & father. Leave them to grieve the way they see fit.
“Keep your mouth shout”
even if he said it quietly, it’s not nice!
But imagine these Kedoshim up there seeing us arguing ……………..
Let’s practice some Shmiras Haloshon Leilu Nishmosom.
Maskim?
How can you disavow Israel, yet live there?
please say some tehillum take something on your selves to beg H” that these things should stop . stop making judgements on others way. each person has his rights. the pray as they wish, to mourn as they wish. H” should have rachmunis and bring us to peace
How about flying the unfortunate to Palestine –a.k.a. the West Bank– for burial. Will that feel more like home than the holy cemeteries whose upkeep and security are under the stewardship of the modern State of Israel? What a shanda among our people: to object in this manner, at this time of horror, to all who cherish Israeli citizenship and its accompanying duties in the Israeli Defense Forces, may G-d bless all who now serve in the IDF and keep them from harm.
So if he doesn’t want anything from israel, let the family fly there and bring him home.
I feel His family does have the right to choose whatever type of funeral they want, but they should have respect for the state of Israel, thats sending a plane and people to bring him home.
Will they deny the $ that teror Victim`s famlies get?
For all those nasty commentors who tucked thier child in bed last night or went to sleep knowing thier child was alive.
This is a personal matter of a family burying thier dead.
I do not think they made a huge tumult out of it but just simply declined the Government of Israel’s offer.
we all got together as one, for one day only?
its really none of our buisness what happens. Maybe isreal didn’t even make an issue. Maybe they just offered.
This is not the time to debate the medina/state of israel. This family is against it, and its wishes must be respected. He was killed because he was a jew, not an Israeli. They initially did not request an Israeli plane to take him back. He was supposed to fly via commercial aircraft. In fact, originally Israel refused to send a plane at all. Only when they realized what kind of public backlash they faced did they cave in to pressure and send the plane.
The yerushalmi sect that he belongs to, live in what is Israel way before the creation of the state. They refuse to accept money from the state, and choose not to benefit directly from the state.
While for some it’s difficult to understand, let’s remain united in achdus, and let each family choose for themselves.
Ultimately, the decision is up to the family, of course. But are they so blinded by their ideology that they do not see that by rejecting Israel, they are providing aid and comfort and philosphically AGREEING with the same enemy who murdered R’ Teitelboim, ZTKL,Hyd, R’ and Rebitzin Holtzberg, ZTKL, Hyd, all of the other Jews slain at the Chabad house, ZKL, Hyd, as well as all of the other innocent victims of this massacre, A’H, Hyd? Did R’ Teitelboim’s rejection on principle of the State of Israel at all impress his barbarian Muslim captors, yimach shmom, or save him from a bloody and painful death? IT DID NOT. Wake up and smell the cholent — radical Muslims who belive their phony death-“god” Allah gives them the right to kill in his name HATE JEWS, whether there is a State of Israel or not. They want all of us to be either dead men or dhimmis.
I am urging everyone to keep their opinions to themselves. Lakol zman voeis.
as per halacha you should burry the dead asap if Israel is considered jewish why can the expedite the funerals ???
This wonderful, loving man, huband and father, who loved every Jew he met was just murdered. He was a kind, loving man, who would have loved you if he met you.
His neshama and his wonderful family is in horrible pain.
Please I beg you all, show rachmonus, show him and his family the same kind of love, caring and respect they showed everyone they met. Do not turn his murder into a political platform to argue YOUR feelings. This is not about YOUR feelings or YOUR beliefs. Can’t we just resepect HIS feelings?
may we never be tested to make such decisions
let them be the way they want to be
let us learn to live together and respect each others customs and ways (as long as there isnt anyone forcing his opion on you)
as we did at har sinai “ke’ish echud nelaiv echud”
one nation one people under one gd
reply#2 the want to charter a plan but israel deny permit to land
Hey Guys, his family is not trying to change the plans of the others who were murdered. They are respecting all the others who were murdered. We should show the same, and respect his family’s personal decision, and not disrespect the death of this tzadik by arguing here.
Rabbi Aryeh Leibush stood for Achdus and Ahavas Yisroel, and practiced it. He may not have agreed with some of you in halacha, but he respected your right to believe as you do. Please give him and his family the love and respect they give everyone. Mourn his murder instead of debating his halachik opinions.
My father was friends with his grandfather, the Nirbartur Rov. One Shabbos we were all sitting around, them with their streimlech and vaaser zoken, and us in our beeber hitten, and were talking about the 6-hour wait between milk and meat. His grandfather and my father both told me together, “that is the way WE hold. But remember, there are others, teira (precious) Yidden who only wait 3 hours, and some even less. They are not wrong. They have halachic basis on which to rely. We may not do it their way, but Remember to respect other people’s minhagim and opinions.”
Please let us respect these people who would have respected you.
for the last 2000 years up till the creation of the so called “jewish state” a jew was defiened as a jew. simple? if a goy hated a jew . it was for only one reason because he’s jewish. now after the creation of isreal there is another reason to hate jews. a political one. now those kedoshim weren’t killed cause of the old time hatred tawerds jews. (study a little history and you will know that the jews living in the arab world were far better off. then their brothers in the cristian world) they were killed because of the political reason. how can their family allow to wrap his holy body in the very same flag that represents the politicizing of jews he was killed for?
the money was raised in bobov $150,000 for a private plane
#24 how about if there was no state of israel we yidden would not be a target of arab muslims ever thought of that ? Well the Bal divrei Yoel did think about that and he kept on saying it. so let’s all respect Rabbi Leibishs ZL views which is an american citizen and the Volover would not have a problem paying for a private plane
I think this news article should be CLOSED for comments….
Ladies, and gentleman, despite our views, pro or con, this is a time to REMAIN SILENT.
Out of respect for the holy kedoshim.
For once. Let us have silence.
Let us bow our head in grief at the unspeakable tragedy – the beautiful neshomos that were snatched from our world by evil men for no reason, no reason at all, other than the fact that they are brothers.
Silence, please.
They are the only chasidus in Israel, who didn’t take programs of social service! So let’s respect them.
We are a democratic people. As Voltaire, a famous democratic philosopher, once said “I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to my death your right to say (and believe) it”.
he doesn’t want to be wrapped in any flag.
respect that.
lets burry them first, before we fight.
Note to #22 :
I, too, am a loyal American and a Veteran. I am eligble, biz hundret tzvansig, to be buried in Arlington, but obviously cannot be so due to halachic requirements. I do, however expect and request that, when the time comes, i be nikvar with the American military honors to which I am entitled. This is not a political statement. It is simply Kavod HaMeis. Israeli honors can be viewed as such also.
Having said that, I fully support the family’s choice and decision as to the arangements for their martyred family member, no matter how silly and anti halachicI consider their beliefs to be.
rabbi teitelbaum was a pious man, who knew that israel could be the place to live in now and will be OUR land once moshiach comes, but it is not our land now…..so just like there are many different jews with many different halachic point of views RESPECT HIS. Nobody would talk on the old satmar rebbe rabbi joel teitelbaum since the miracles he performed are not to be described and he too did NOT recognize zionism.
the family did try to pay and they were asked not as in order to avoid problams
If we can’t learn to be respectful and loving even in a time like this….
This holy wonderful, warm and loving man gave his life in kiddush hashem, an he is being insulted here before his burial????
I truly can not believe what I am reading. This is just a nightmare. Please tell me that if I go to bed and wake up again, I will not see people putting him and his family down.
Is expressing your opposition that immportant TO YOU that you must dirty his memory and hurt those who are in the deepest pain imaginable while they are down?
Do you see HIS family putting down the views of the others, or their decisions? They are only trying to do what they believe to be right, for their own son. They are not imposing their views on you.
Their hearts are broken. Parents mourning the murder of a precious son. A wife being left in widowhood so young, and with 8 orphans. 8 precious Jewish children suffering the senseless murder of their father.
Can you imagine all this pain? all the tears, all the broken hearts and dreams?
If we can’t learn to be respectful and loving even in a time like this….
This holy wonderful, warm and loving man gave his life in kiddush hashem, an he is being insulted here before his burial????
I truly can not believe what I am reading. This is just a nightmare. Please tell me that if I go to bed and wake up again, I will not see people putting him and his family down.
Is expressing your opposition that immportant TO YOU that you must dirty his memory and hurt those who are in the deepest pain imaginable while they are down?
Do you see HIS family putting down the views of the others, or their decisions? They are only trying to do what they believe to be right, for their own son. They are not imposing their views on you.
Their hearts are broken. Parents mourning the murder of a precious son. A wife being left in widowhood so young, and with 8 orphans. 8 precious Jewish children suffering the senseless murder of their father.
Can you imagine all this pain? all the tears, all the broken hearts and dreams?
I just read the VIN report about the hespidim in India and looked at the gut wrenching pictures of the crying Moishele. I admit, for a few seconds I was angry at the ribono shel olam for letting this happen, for letting this galus in which such things happen continue after all the blood and tears of parents and of children have been poured out at His feet, keviyachul.
Reading the comments above woke me up to understand that it is not the Ribbonoon Shel Olam who is keeping us in galus, it is us who are keeping ourselves in galus.
Please, everyone, spend today thinking about what you have done to add to the sinas chinom amongst us and what you can do to end it. Forget about yenem, whether he is a tzioni, a chosid, a litvak, a sephardi, a yekkeh, a lubavitcher, a satmarer, no matter which yid it is you think of as ‘the other’.
I’ll bli neder do this today. If enough of you join me not only might the Go’el Tzedek be here by Mincha, we all might be happy to see him no matter what hat he is or isn’t wearing. If we will concentrate on our own guilt for a few minutes we would be so heartbroken we would finally understand why we need the geula shelaimah b’karov beyomainu.
By the way, I am at work, and so many people near me have read the angry and sarcastic posts, that some have insisted they borrow by laptop and respond. They can’t believe what they are seeing. They are horrified at the way people are treated.
Let’s all try random acts of kindness, and kind speaking.
I dont understand what all the bickering is all about.
He (the Kodosh) was raised respectfully as a Choseve Satmer Chosid, who live with the idea of the Satmar Rebbeh z”l (Reb Yoel) that Jews and Zionism are NOT united, what it means is, that Jews are categorized by people who live by the way of our Holy Torah 613 Mitzvos like keeping Shabbos etc. and Zionists are people who there heritage is from Jews but they decided to say good by to the way of a Torah life and live like none Jews, now the family has decided to following his wishes and don’t want him to be touched by the Israeli government in any way shape or form, why are so many VIN readers getting so excited.
Next point who are we all screaming to or at? His families surly don’t have internet service they will never get to read all of the above posts, save you blood pressure for something better.
Let’s control our emotions and show that we still have respect for a fellow Yid, we need more Achudas in order to be Zocha to greet Moshiach not fighting.
I wish we could all find one Machlokos that we might be involved in and forget and forgive to bring the Geualah closer and faster.
Tonight in Jerusalem: right now as we speak there is something very scary in the sky, you can see the moon and TWO HUDGE STARS one on each side of it, a Mekubel in Jerusalem has just announced that this is a clear sign of the war of Gog and Mogog so VIN family lets show Achudas we are going to need it to servive this war and greet Moshiach.
Tomorrow the Beis Din will identify the body, and meet to be matir his wife.
Think about it. And some are still debating about the stupid flag?
It may be mutar for me to have a USA flag at my funeral. I don’t want one. And, I do love my country, the USA.
To me flags represent politics, which some don’t want at their funerals.
Besides just because many do it, does make it right.
Also, just because something may be mutar, does mean we must do it.
It is muttar to jump up and down, flap our arms, and cluck like a chicken, but I will pass on that. Yes, I know, some Orthodox Jews do it. I don’t choose to.
Even though his family may not log on and see the insuulting remarks, others who love him, like, for instance, ME, do log on and read this, and they bring ME to tears.
The biggest zechus in shomayim will be if all yiddin bury thier differences with the niftorim.
Reb Leibish held American citizenship as he was born and raised in USA. He moved to Israel when he married an Israeli. It is nonsence to say some Satmarer in Israel don’t hold Israeli citizenship. No one will give up their USA citizenship unless they must or have a financial benefit.
These Hassidim stick to ancient traditional customs. How much more at the time of burting a deceased. These ceromonies and flag draping is a modern secular thing and not in line with traditional orthodox custom.
We don’t know why things happen but some might even argue that Rabbi Teitelbaum became a victim due to the Israeli conflict.
the great mharshab z”l from chabad was the biggest enmy to the zionests let’s not fool ourselfs the zionests are the one who hate the the torah jew they whiped out the torah from entire communitys big shame on the entire isreali gov
If, as a couple of posters have written, they do not accept money from the medina (and will not take terror-vicitm’s money (R”L), there is still an issue of HAKARAS HATOV. The army, which I am sure they do not serve in, protects them, their wives, and children. There are other services that the medina provides, such as mail, water, electricity, bus transportation, etc. I understand that they are relying on a Gadol’s shita (R. Yoel) but I still believe there must be hakaras hatov for the good that the medina does provide, and does do.
Reb Leibish Titelbaum A’H .Was a happy cheerful person
Son Of The Volover Rebbeh,Grandson Of The Nirbarter Rav A’H & The Sulitzer Rav of Far Rockaway,Nephew of The Satmar Rebbeh Beirech Moshe Z’L
He grew up as a little boy until 14years old in the seculuded neighborhood of Belle Harbor N.Y. vacation home of The Satmar Rebbe Z’L and then lived in Boro Park and Eretz Yisroel.He was a cheerfull soul and he will be missed H’Y
Why are the jews a target when there is fight between Pakistan and India? Here is the answer!
One of the assailants, who identified himself as Imran Babar and said his unit contained six militants, used Mr. Holtzberg’s cellphone to call a popular Indian TV show on Thursday. In the call, he fumed about a recent visit by Major-General Avi Mizrahi, head of Israel’s Ground Forces Command, to the disputed Indian state of Kashmir, a predominantly Muslim area where Indian forces are battling an Islamic insurgency. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122791112830765379.html?mod=article-outset-box)
Our words to the isrealie government don’t cause our people should be killed and don’t sent plans after death r”l
The biggest security for Jews is to publicize that the state of isreal dosnt represents Jews
“A little passion for the grieving family is in order.” #85 . I agree, we should be respectful of the family who is in mourning. But what about all of the families of dead & wounded soldiers R”L, throughout the history of Israel, who have shed blood protecting the Medina, that they look down on?? Don’t they deserve respect as well?