New York — An unprecedented nationwide outbreak of deadly salmonella bacteria centered on peanut products has thus far killed nine people and sickened more than 600 in 43 states. But the outbreak also has many in the frum community asking whether the conditions at Peanut Corp. of America facilities said to have triggered the outbreak could also represent a laxity on the part of the OU and other kosher certifiers whose inspectors regularly oversaw the plants in question.
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Via numerous e-mails and its contacts at the Orthodox Union, VIN News has learned that many kosher consumers are directly querying the OU whether the salmonella outbreak represents a kashrus problem—and that many others are simply pondering that same question without calling.
Reports of salmonella-spreading mold, rats and roaches at the plants in question have alarmed kosher consumers because their presence in or even near production machinery could render the otherwise acceptable products non-kosher.
If the allegations are true, kosher certifiers’ competence and reliability may be called into question not just at PCA, but at all food production facilities where pests and mold may also be present.
However, Rabbi Moshe Elefant, Executive Rabbinic Coordinator at the OU, asserts that the OU is “taking the issue very seriously.”
In a Wednesday phone conversation with VIN News, Rabbi Elefant said that OU kosher inspectors are trained to spot and report unsanitary conditions and pests such as those that allegedly triggered the salmonella outbreaks at the PCA’s production facilities.
Case in point, the rabbi claimed that a few weeks ago, the same OU inspector formerly assigned to PCA found unsanitary conditions in a plant unrelated to the salmonella outbreak—and “right away told the owners to fix the problem or face removal of certification.”
Rabbi Elefant explained that “salmonella is caused by a microorganism. This contamination can only be detected by a lab, and by federal and state inspectors. Our mashgichim will report anything visible, but contamination requiring testing can only be done by the appropriate authorities following the appropriate testing methods. The bottom line is, the Orthodox Union will not accept filth, contamination, or anything that can prove to be a health hazard. We will pull our certification from companies where such contamination is found.”
Still, the fact remains that a month-long FDA investigation uncovered multiple violations at the plant in question, with the most disturbing revealing that products had been shipped after salmonella had been found in 2007 and 2008. The OU withdrew its certification from PCA because of those violations, according to Rabbi Elefant.
According to the most recent information, PCA discovered the dangerous bacteria at its Georgia plant as far back as 2006.
Darlene Cowart of JLA testing company told a House committee on Wednesday that PCA contacted her business in November 2006 to help control salmonella discovered in the plant.
Federal health officials earlier said the company’s private tests found salmonella a dozen times, dating to June 2007. Cowart’s testimony shows the company was dealing with the bacteria problem seven months earlier.
The salmonella outbreak has led to one of the largest food recalls in U.S. history, encompassing more than 1,000 products.
if you don’t believe this you are not an apikores.
Which peanut butter brands are effected by this outbreak??
If sanitary conditions are such a concern to Rabbi Elefant and the OU they should check the kitchens in some of the restaurants they supervize.
I personally know of a plant where rodents roamed freely. OU and Hisachdus gave hechsherim there. I can’t imagine that they didn’t notice the utter schmutz all over the place. I guess there attitude is as long as nothing unkosher is going into the product it’s not their business. How sad.
This is good news. A bit late but OU and the other hashgacha organizations have a broader mandate than just wearing blinders and focusing narrowly on the nuts and bolts of kashruth. The hearing yesterday revealed that the management of this peanut plant lied and deceived the government agencies to avoid any loss in profits that even a temporary shutdown would have required. If they are willing to risk prison to avoid telling the FDA and state agencies about a problem, they would not even think twice about lying to mashgichim or sneaking around them to bring in terifus.
Just wondering if they will allow their CEO out on bail, since he doesn’t present a flight threat, although directly responsible for multiple deaths and people geting sick. Helps to put things in persepective of what’s important , people lifes or $$$ in this country.
They don’t make that much money from the peanut butter factory. But from rubashkin they made lots. Kesef yaaneh es hakol.
Hey, where is PETA or Peter Pan? or do they prefer to go after Shechita?
Why the surprise? There have been a number of restauranrs under different hashgachas that have been cited for health violations. The response has alwats been that they are only there to certify kashrus. If there are animal droppins, vermin, food left out too long on unsanitary counters, that’s not their problem
The Halachic dictum that we can use the fact that a gentile will not risk his good name or even jail is part of the Kosher hashgacha certification process. It does not mean that when you eat something that its not possible that in fact it was not kosher. Just as it could happen that 2 kosher witnesses lied that a womans husband died and she is then allowed by Halacha to marry again, and later when the husband appears, does that mean we can’t rely on witnesses ever?
The Halacha only provides a means of conducting oneself in this world, it is not a system of establishing empirical facts. Halacha says we can eat certain foods on the ‘assumption’ that a person will not take the risk and falsify a claim on his product. So it is Kosher under that assumption, it is not an ultimate proof and unless it is revealed that this person is willing to take such a risk; which seems to be the case here, hence the OU removed the certification, as it should.
No peanut butter products in jars and whatnot effected, only INDUSTRIAL peanut butter used in baked goods, cereals, candy bars, etc.
they would not even think twice about lying to mashgichim or sneaking around them to bring in terifus…………
And this brings to question why and how kashrus agencies have inspections that 99% of the time are NOT SURPRISE Inspections.
In defense of the OU in this paricular story it is outrageous for anyone to say it’s the OU resposnsibility to check for salminella. It is not the job of the OU or any Rabbi to check for things that can only be seen on a microscope.
I know we are living in a day and age where you have idiots screaming all day long about finding bugs in everything and only finding bugs because these idiots walk around with microscopes checking and checking and looking to find something when only using a microscope.
Lets get real and not expect anyone from the OU to now start walking around with microscopes and lab equipment around their neck!
With all the problems in kashrus the OU is still ahead of the game when it comes to responisbility. The OU has dumped many companies for different reasons and they could have easily made another 500 million dollars and nobody would know the difference but the OU has integrity and decides that kashrus is more important than than the money.
Can other agencies make the same claim?
I would bet that some other kashrus organization will give a hechsher to this peanut factory. kashrus organizations that take over companies that just lost their hechsher is something that is a big problem and proves that it’s about the money and this makes the consumer sick to their stomache just as much a outbreak of salmonella.
There is the impression by the vast majority of kosher product consumers (who are incidently not jewish) that kashrut certification covers all aspects from health to cleanliness.
On that basis, and given the huge customer base, companies pay for kosher supervision.
It would be wise for the OU and other organizations to get involved in more aspects of production because if the non-jewish kosher consumer defects – that company won’t want certification in the future.
One of the major problems with kashrus today is the reliance on “Mirsus” or the fear of getting caught.
However, today, in my opionions MIRSUS IS DEAD!
The inyan of Mirsus is no longer applicable, since people’s careers are not destroyed anymore by being caught. Today we live in the “Ooops” generation.
That is why no Yotzai V’Nichnas has any value at all, no matter who owns or operates the facility. Mashsgichim Timidimm are ALWAYS neccessary. Without them the hashgacha is useless.
I know ALL those in the Kashrus industry will want to hang me from the nearest gallows for saying it, but in my opinion it is true.
As a mashgiach, I no longer accept any assignments as Yotzai V’nichnas. The mashgichim MUST have the keys, and have 24/7 access to all plants, and warehouses. There is no way around it any more.
This is not a kashrut issue. The kosher certifying organizations are not judging food safety. The same as they don’t render opinions on how workers are treated or if the owners of the factory cheat on their taxes. They only concern themselves with kashrus and with the type of music played and how the waitresses dress at restaurants that they certify.
Even in these difficult times, we should not paint peanuts with a broad brush. Just because there are some bad peanuts, this does not make all peanuts bad. Peanuts, like any member of any group, are individuals, and should be judged on their own merits. Discrimination is just plain wrong!
http://167.153.150.32/RI/web/index.do?method=nameZipSearch&selection=zipCode&searchValue=10036&requestedSortOrder=1&boroughSelect=%20&state=%20&alphaValue=%20&pageNum=2
Look at the nyc.gov website and you will see that some restaurants have rodents.
The OU does not check some facilities very often-some are only checked once a year, if even that much.
I am sickened by the comments on this blog by people who know absolutly nothing other than what the media is feeding them and I would like to addres that here.
1. As an industrial mashgiach, I can tell you that we are not concenred about the “cleanliness” of the plant per se UNLESS it is REALLY BAD. Most reputable facilities have bait stations and pest control coming in to service them. That is not our job. We have a job to make sure the raw materials meet kashrus requirments. In all my years, only ONE time did I make mention to my company rep that something was wrong and I was thanked for it. They know what the problem is and they deal with it as they see. We cannot be the policemen for the health department and we will not be either. If my state doesnt monitor the situation, thats not my problem UNLESS it comprimises kashrus.
2. Please dont believe what the NY Slimes etc., is feeding you here. This was not as bad as it is being reported. The mashgiach – one of the best in the business – didnt see anything wrong with the plant and I will stand by his word on that. There werent rats, roaches, etc., running around!
3. These plants supplied peanut products which were consumed by MILLIONS of people and yet only 800 got sick. I am not dimishing the the fact that people got sick etc., however when MILLIONS of people are consuming all sorts of nut products from PCA in one form or another and ONLY 800 got sick, that is a VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE! In fact, Salmonella lives in YOUR gut! Please read the CDC website about Salmonella before making any more comments.
4. Getting back to #1 , we cannot be in the business of adding to what the health inspections are doing or IF they are doing. We are there for kashrus. All you peple want us to do everything but when prices go up, you complain. You wanna know why the mashgiach needs to be paid a livable salary. Quit complaining already!
5. For the poster that said this was all about money, you are a complete fool. The situation in IA wasnt as it was reported but you are m’kabel loshon hora for accecpting it like the kool-aid you drink. Let us hope the Rubashkins get their day in court (it would be better if the govt dropped their false charges anyway) so that they could defend themselves – unfortunately to the yiddin too! You think the OU cares if they didnt get thier pennies from this plant? You are mistaken. The OU has no problem dropping the company but I wonder what you would say when the Bottom Feeders pick them up?
CUKP
what are the symptoms of salmonella we should be on alert for?
This whole thing is crazy!
1. Salmonella cannot be seen and people who are not trained for it wont know what the “warning” signs are for it.
2. Salmonella is something found in the digestive tract of EACH AND EVERY PERSON.
3. 800 people got symptoms or worse of the MILLIONS who eat the products from that plant every day. This is a drop in the bucket and much ado about not too much.
“Case in point, the rabbi claimed that a few weeks ago, the same OU inspector formerly assigned to PCA found unsanitary conditions in a plant unrelated to the salmonella outbreak—and “right away told the owners to fix the problem or face removal of certification.” ‘
Which plant had a problem. The kosher consumer has a right to know the details of this NOW. Who What When and Where. Only then can the OU regain public confidence that it represents the “highest level of kosher certification.”