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Vilnius, Lithuania - Chabad Rabbi in Vilna Banned from Main Shul by the Jewish Kehilla

Published on: February 24, 2009 10:32 AM
By: VIN News By by Ezra Reichman - Maariv
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file photoVilnius, Lithuania - The Jewish community in Vilna refuses to allow the local Chabad rabbi to enter the main shul, even though the rabbi has to say Kaddish and has no other minyan where he can say it.

Tense, acrid relations have existed between the Jewish community and Rabbi Krinsky since 2004, when the community passed Rav Krinsky by for the rabbinate and chose instead Rabbi Chaim Burstein, a former St. Petersburg refusenik who had studied in Litvish yeshivos in Israel. Despite Rabbi Krinsky living in Vilna and being involved with the community since 1994, the kehilla said they had a tradition of being misnagdim and preferred a rabbi who was a Litvak.

Fisticuffs broke out in the shul between pro-Krinsky and pro-Burshtein factions during Shavuot services in 2004. The fracas was covered extensively by the local and foreign media.

Burshtein was later roughed up by Krinsky supporters during tefillos in the shul. When Krinsky’s hooliganism continued, he and his followers were barred from the synagogue. They countered by holding vigils in the courtyard for months while pouting to foreign journalists about their “victimization”.

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The ensuing embarrassment and seeing no end to the conflict caused the kehilla to close the synagogue for more than a year, while services were held in the kehilla building. The community took Krinsky to court, and an arrangement was finally reached where the rabbi had to retreat to his Chabad center. The shul reopened in August 2005, and morning and evening services have since been held daily - without Krinsky, who presides over his own services in a first-floor room at the Chabad center.

The ban against Rav Krinsky entering the main shul means that he cannot enter the shul to recite Kaddish for his mother who passed away a few days ago. His own synagogue doesn’t have a regular minyan of worshippers. Krinsky grumbled, “The doors are closed, and the guards know me and won’t let me enter. How can one say ‘no’ to a Jew who wants to say Kaddish for his mother?”

Rabbi Yosef Aharanov, the head of Israeli shlichim, was shocked. “Banning a Jew, kal v’chomer one who is a rav of a kehilla, is extremely serious. Such a thing is not done except under the most extreme circumstances.”

Mr. Alperowitz, the community president, says, “Krinsky should blame himself that he doesn’t have a minyan. He distanced people from himself.”

Both Krinsky and Alperowitz accuse each other of violence, and being motivated by the long-awaited restitution of Jewish communal property, which in Lithuania eventually will include at least 200 buildings and an estimated $60 million in compensation for property that cannot be returned.

Local observers claim that Krinsky’s attempt to grab control of the Vilna kehilla follows a Chabad pattern to usurp power from local rabbis elsewhere in Eastern Europe which in recent years occurred in Kiev, Prague, Russia and Germany.

Lita has today about 4,500 Jews, most of them living in Vilna.



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Read Comments (131)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Feb 24, 2009 at 09:46 AM Hmm Says:

Krinsky... why does that name sound sooo familiar?

2

 Feb 24, 2009 at 09:43 AM Milhouse Says:

Whatever yiddishkeit exists in Vilna is all Krinsky's work. He was the only rov in Lithuania, and therefore entitled to the rabbonus, but Alperovich decided that there was a "tradition" of hisnagdus, so he would bring another rov in, so he could control the money.

3

 Feb 24, 2009 at 09:42 AM Anonymous Says:

Such a beautiful picture of achdus in a troubled yiddeshe community. It is a wonderful example for olams in other parts of the world of how yiddim can come together in times of stress to hasten zman moishiach. Kol hakovod to these meshegoim for making the fights between the Satmer rebbes in BP and KJ look like "family feud".

4

 Feb 24, 2009 at 09:42 AM Zev Says:

Sometimes you haved to know which street to sell your apples on.

5

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:00 AM R. H. Taber Says:

I don't really know too much about this machlokes, but I can tell you that when my son and I were in Vilna 6-7 years ago, among his other activities, Rabbi Krinsky was running a soup kitchen for the local population. Rabbi Krinsky invited us to have supper at his kitchen and was a very gracious host.

Many of the Rabbi Krinsky's guests were elderly Vilna residents as were most of the mispallelim in the Shul.

6

 Feb 24, 2009 at 09:59 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Milhouse Says:

Whatever yiddishkeit exists in Vilna is all Krinsky's work. He was the only rov in Lithuania, and therefore entitled to the rabbonus, but Alperovich decided that there was a "tradition" of hisnagdus, so he would bring another rov in, so he could control the money.

there is not hing wrong with LITHUAINIANS choosing a LITHUIOANIAN Rbabi in their tradtitinos in the original place and not a chabad shliach who think they own the world. the behaivior of this guy and his helpers is the reason he got kicked out. violence never solved anything.

yechi ....

7

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:22 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

there is not hing wrong with LITHUAINIANS choosing a LITHUIOANIAN Rbabi in their tradtitinos in the original place and not a chabad shliach who think they own the world. the behaivior of this guy and his helpers is the reason he got kicked out. violence never solved anything.

yechi ....

this is disgusting im speechless ...throw a jew out of a shuel , ??????

8

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:16 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

there is not hing wrong with LITHUAINIANS choosing a LITHUIOANIAN Rbabi in their tradtitinos in the original place and not a chabad shliach who think they own the world. the behaivior of this guy and his helpers is the reason he got kicked out. violence never solved anything.

yechi ....

What has a Litvasher yid evern done for this community? Without Krinsky, who will ultimately be regarded as one of the gadolim of our generation, there would be no yiddeshe community to be fighting? Who cares whether the rebbe is Lithuanian, Armenian, Hungarian or Russian? This is madness.

9

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:13 AM krinsky is the reason for any jewish kehilla in vilna Says:

this is the gratitude the litvishe olem does when a man spenmds his time and his life rebuilding a kehilla and feeding tens of thousands of meals to needy jews
then comes the litvishe and have 400 non jewish kids in the school but to get government money and try to control it they try to throw out a rabbi who built them up

once again a disgrace by the litvishe

10

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:10 AM Litvak from Lita Says:

Reply to #2  
Milhouse Says:

Whatever yiddishkeit exists in Vilna is all Krinsky's work. He was the only rov in Lithuania, and therefore entitled to the rabbonus, but Alperovich decided that there was a "tradition" of hisnagdus, so he would bring another rov in, so he could control the money.

“ Whatever yiddishkeit exists in Vilna is all Krinsky's work" Bull. Where are his mekurovim? Not enough for a minyan?
"He was the only rov in Lithuania" Bull
"but the mechalel shabbos Alperovich " And since when do the Chabazkers reject Mechallelei Shabbos?

In addition to the fact that Krinsky iz a blazing Am-ho-Oretz.

11

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:05 AM Anonymous Says:

Sick people.

They have more important things to worry about then being misnagdim..

12

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:04 AM Aron Says:

Rabbi Krinsky's need to say Kaddish with a minyan should haved trumped all differrnces. It also could have been a stepping stone to making peace between the two sides. Alas, that was not the case here.

13

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:37 AM Shlomo Says:

No wonder the Mashiach is not here yet...

14

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:45 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

there is not hing wrong with LITHUAINIANS choosing a LITHUIOANIAN Rbabi in their tradtitinos in the original place and not a chabad shliach who think they own the world. the behaivior of this guy and his helpers is the reason he got kicked out. violence never solved anything.

yechi ....

Actually violence got us back the west bank and gaza. Just b/c we didnt start the fight dosent mean we didnt benefit from it. I cant understand why they cant have 2 shuls and live in peace. this conflict causes anti-semitism by presenting frum jews in an unflattering light - and it seems that both sides are to blame. Shame on both of them but remember the old joke about 2 jews on an island with 3 shuls. 1 shul neither would daven in. We are truly a weird people but obviously the abishter has seen fit to save us from ourselves.

15

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM Anonymous Says:

Everyone who doesn't live in Vilnia should stay out of this. None of us has first hand knowledge of what's happened. Why can't there be two congregations in one city as long as one is not poaching off the other and each has enough for their own minyan? Chabad and hasidism is not for everyone and litvik might not be for everyone. The more choice, the more chances to get people involved.

16

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:31 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Litvak from Lita Says:

“ Whatever yiddishkeit exists in Vilna is all Krinsky's work" Bull. Where are his mekurovim? Not enough for a minyan?
"He was the only rov in Lithuania" Bull
"but the mechalel shabbos Alperovich " And since when do the Chabazkers reject Mechallelei Shabbos?

In addition to the fact that Krinsky iz a blazing Am-ho-Oretz.

The Poster should rename himself the Ludite from Ludtz...I didn't know misnagdim could be so dumb but you have restored my faith that there is probably an intelligent Litvisher yid out there who can engage in civil discourse, but unfortunately I have not met such an individual yet. Hashem yarachem on those who must live with you.

17

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:29 AM aviva Says:

No matter what, a jew allows a jew to say kaddish with a minyan and does whatever is necessary to make that happen.

18

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:28 AM Anonymous Says:

I don't understand why he can't get a minyan in his own shul if he is such a wonderful guy. Do the people in Vilna who are interested in Dovening in a miyan know something we don't?

19

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:28 AM Anonymous Says:

Litvak bleibt litvak

20

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:25 AM Funny Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

there is not hing wrong with LITHUAINIANS choosing a LITHUIOANIAN Rbabi in their tradtitinos in the original place and not a chabad shliach who think they own the world. the behaivior of this guy and his helpers is the reason he got kicked out. violence never solved anything.

yechi ....

The non shomer shabbos president of the community probably comes from chassidim. Because if he would come from litvishe than he wouldn't be so into the mesorah:).

21

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:47 AM Anonymous Says:

Why does not Rabbi Krinsky have a minyan???? It does not make sense! He is there since 2004 and 5 years later he still does not have a minyan???? It just does not add up. I think he is after the assets and that is the bulk of it. Money hungry !!

22

 Feb 24, 2009 at 11:26 AM My Son was in Vilna Says:

The so called "kehillah" is a group controlled by a man Mr. Alperrovitz who is not religious. He wants control of the community to gain the money from reparations. Krinsky has hundreds of Jews attending programs like Chanukah and other holidays. Due to communism they have been removed from YIddiskiet for a few generations and have little knowledge of daavening etc.

23

 Feb 24, 2009 at 11:15 AM Anonymous Says:

This is the richest line in the article

"the kehilla said they had a tradition of being misnagdim and preferred a rabbi who was a Litvak."

So, by that analogy, most people in the Vilnius kehillah are ochlei neveilos and mechalalei shabbos. So, aren't THOSE the currently standing traditions? If so, then those are the characteristics they should be seeking in a rabbi. R. Burshtein certainly does not conform. Throw him out into the street as well!

24

 Feb 24, 2009 at 11:14 AM Anonymous Says:

this article is extremely biased

25

 Feb 24, 2009 at 11:45 AM Anonymous Says:

lets leave machlokas of litvaks and chsidim in vilna.

26

 Feb 24, 2009 at 11:41 AM Lithuanian Bussines Traveler Says:

Rav Krinsky is a very fine person. He is an outstanding Talmid Chochom with a heart of gold.
I have been traveling there on a monthly basis for 14 years.

There is no person in that community that did what this rav has done.

He was "their Rabbi" for 10 full years prior to any fighting. He was the Rov of this same shul thats not allowing him in to say Kaddish. What a gratefull bunch of sick litvaks.

He actually went to vilna when this "rosh hakohol" requested assistance from Lubavitch many years ago.

I should clarify that this so called "Litvishe Kehilah" is not religious at all and has no shaychus to the litvishe yeshivishe frum olam. they are Chazer fressers and mechalilai shabbos.

27

 Feb 24, 2009 at 11:34 AM KANOY Says:

Reply to #7  
Anonymous Says:

this is disgusting im speechless ...throw a jew out of a shuel , ??????

OY my dear friend..if you only knew how common a practice this has become,especially if you have the "CHUTZPAH" to argue with the "RABBI" (even if he can't say ivrah.

28

 Feb 24, 2009 at 11:49 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

The Poster should rename himself the Ludite from Ludtz...I didn't know misnagdim could be so dumb but you have restored my faith that there is probably an intelligent Litvisher yid out there who can engage in civil discourse, but unfortunately I have not met such an individual yet. Hashem yarachem on those who must live with you.

I seem to recall that Reb Moshe was a Litvak and proud of it.
And Lubavitch has a great problem with minhagei hamaom when they come to a place. No matter how frum the place is, Lubavitch has their own 'standards' and calls everyone else apikorsim.
Remember that each chabad shaliach is granted a 'franchise' in an area. They are not coming out of the goodness of their hearts. This is their parnossa and woe to the litvak that gets in their way.

29

 Feb 24, 2009 at 11:46 AM Krisnky Says:

What goes around come around.

Any relation to the Krinsky who went to court to evict yidden from the Main Shull of Lubavitch?

31

 Feb 24, 2009 at 11:00 AM bitachon Says:

Reply to #18  
Anonymous Says:

I don't understand why he can't get a minyan in his own shul if he is such a wonderful guy. Do the people in Vilna who are interested in Dovening in a miyan know something we don't?

I second that 100%. That is a revealing comment and a true indicator of krinskiy's standing in the community at large.
Having a soup kitchen is nice but I smell a rat. Unfortunately, anyone activaely involved in kiruv will tell that either they don't get along with shluchim or theywalk on egg shells. Chabad's motto is either it's chabad or it's wrong.
I wasn't there but I guarentee you that krinsky didn't try to mend relationships. He tried to push lubavitch and used his need for kaddish to show how ehrlich he is and he is being picked on.
Speak to alte lubavitche chassidim about the shande going on in their midst.

32

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:56 AM SD Says:

Um . . .
From a halachic perspective the "need" to daven with a minyan 3x per day is significantly greater than the "need" to say kaddish.

While I understand the emotional appeal of someone's "needing" to say kaddish, that "need" is far less than his "need" to daven b'tzibbur, kaddish or not.

Although I don't know the details here, and there certainly seems to be a great deal of politics involved, why don't they take it to a neutral Din Torah in Eretz Yisroel?

(Yes, I already know the answer: Because no Beis Din would be neutral when it comes to the Litvaks vs Chabad. Solution: Go to a Beis Din affiliated with the religious zionists, who have no stake in this war and have excellent Batei Din.)

33

 Feb 24, 2009 at 11:52 AM Dovid Says:

Reply to #23  
Anonymous Says:

This is the richest line in the article

"the kehilla said they had a tradition of being misnagdim and preferred a rabbi who was a Litvak."

So, by that analogy, most people in the Vilnius kehillah are ochlei neveilos and mechalalei shabbos. So, aren't THOSE the currently standing traditions? If so, then those are the characteristics they should be seeking in a rabbi. R. Burshtein certainly does not conform. Throw him out into the street as well!

Why is it that in the Vilna shul, everyboy speaks in Russian? If they are Lithuanians, why don't they speak in Lithuanian?
Or is it that the majority of the Jews there, are immigrants that came during the Soviet Occupation?

34

 Feb 24, 2009 at 11:51 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Milhouse Says:

Whatever yiddishkeit exists in Vilna is all Krinsky's work. He was the only rov in Lithuania, and therefore entitled to the rabbonus, but Alperovich decided that there was a "tradition" of hisnagdus, so he would bring another rov in, so he could control the money.

Now that Rubashkin is not on the front page, Milhouse had to show up spouting his hate on something else.

35

 Feb 24, 2009 at 12:08 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #18  
Anonymous Says:

I don't understand why he can't get a minyan in his own shul if he is such a wonderful guy. Do the people in Vilna who are interested in Dovening in a miyan know something we don't?

No, there just aren't enough yidden in Vilna who are interested in davening with a minyan.

36

 Feb 24, 2009 at 12:07 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #34  
Anonymous Says:

Now that Rubashkin is not on the front page, Milhouse had to show up spouting his hate on something else.

Do you deny that Alperovich is a mechalel shabbos? What right did he have to throw out the rov who had come and lived there when nobody else was interested? What connection does a mechalel shabbos sheigetz have to the "traditions" of Vilna?

37

 Feb 24, 2009 at 12:05 PM About Rabbi Krinsky Says:

Reply to #29  
Krisnky Says:

What goes around come around.

Any relation to the Krinsky who went to court to evict yidden from the Main Shull of Lubavitch?

To comment # 29.

First of all a little Derech Eretz. You don't just call him Krinsky, it is RABBI Krinsky.

And yes he is indeed related to the Rabbi Krinsky in NY, who went to court and lost in his attempt to evict the Meshichisten from 770.

Please don't get me wrong.Rabbi Krinsky is a very charismatic person and he wouldn't evict people from the 770 Shull, in the same identical way as Rabbi Krinsky, in Vilna was evicted.

The related, Rabbi Krinsky in NY, actually went to court, only in order to attempt to control the Pro-Meshichist movement in Lubavitch. But the court of Appeals said he can't evict the Gaboim who are the ones who run the shull and who are very pro Meshichist.

38

 Feb 24, 2009 at 12:02 PM Cahssid Says:

Reply to #2  
Milhouse Says:

Whatever yiddishkeit exists in Vilna is all Krinsky's work. He was the only rov in Lithuania, and therefore entitled to the rabbonus, but Alperovich decided that there was a "tradition" of hisnagdus, so he would bring another rov in, so he could control the money.

the vilna kehilah did not ask for krinsky to come vilna, "no one ordain krinsky to be rov of vilan so the jews from vilna have a right to do what they desire

39

 Feb 24, 2009 at 12:01 PM Cahssid Says:

Reply to #2  
Milhouse Says:

Whatever yiddishkeit exists in Vilna is all Krinsky's work. He was the only rov in Lithuania, and therefore entitled to the rabbonus, but Alperovich decided that there was a "tradition" of hisnagdus, so he would bring another rov in, so he could control the money.

the vilna kehilah did not ask for krinsky to come vilna, "no one ordain krinsky to be rov of vilan so the jews from vilna have a right to do what they desire

40

 Feb 24, 2009 at 11:57 AM Anonymous Says:

I think that is his uncle, who went to court to get rid of the moshichistim from 770.

41

 Feb 24, 2009 at 12:36 PM Kogan Says:

This article is not impartial and is trying to influence you that the problem is Rabbi Krinsky and Chabad without really addressing the role of Mr. Alperovitch (who as I understand is a former kgb agent) or Rabbi Burshtein.

The situation is very complex and cannot be described or resolved in a short biased article. I just want to know one thing. Where do they get the chutzpa to hire goyishe thugs with a sole purpose to guard a public shul from a Jew, a Rov and instruct them to physically throw him out?

Regardless of what you think of Chabad how can you justify this nazi tactics?

42

 Feb 24, 2009 at 12:26 PM Anonymous Says:

I guess in vilna they don't believe in CHANGE :)

43

 Feb 24, 2009 at 12:26 PM angry Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

I seem to recall that Reb Moshe was a Litvak and proud of it.
And Lubavitch has a great problem with minhagei hamaom when they come to a place. No matter how frum the place is, Lubavitch has their own 'standards' and calls everyone else apikorsim.
Remember that each chabad shaliach is granted a 'franchise' in an area. They are not coming out of the goodness of their hearts. This is their parnossa and woe to the litvak that gets in their way.

you disgust me.

chabadnikim have never called other jews apikorsim, in fact, chabad opens their hearts to every single jew, no matter what their level of observance. and ask any frum business traveller who they turn to for chesed, when they have to travel to far-flung places. nobody is there but chabad. and it is chabad that will house them and feed them, free of charge.

for you to say that shluchim aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts is sick. why don't YOU go move out to same crazy insane place like thailand, india, china etc. just to help other jews? you think they are doing it for parnossa? i can't decide which is worse, your stupidity or your sinas chinam.

44

 Feb 24, 2009 at 12:29 PM St. Louis Says:

This is simple. The shul should simply send a few guys over to make sure he has a minyan at the Chabad house. I can't imagine how the shul rav could sanction a Jew not being able to say Kaddish if it is possible. Get it done and out of the news.

45

 Feb 24, 2009 at 12:51 PM Without Krinsky there is no Community!!! Says:

this is disgusting! no hakoras tov for someone who could have had an easy life living in the US but instead went to share the warmth of yiddishkeit under the terrible conditions abroad!!!!

46

 Feb 24, 2009 at 12:49 PM =) Says:

This is disgraceful. I thought the strife between Chassidish and Litvish yids were over. We are all brothers, we believe in the same thing, we just have different avenues. What now, Krinsky cant even say Kadish- what a disgrace in Hashem's Name to not let him do that.

You people should drop your disagreements and biasses and have MORE CHESSED.

Haven't You forgotten that it was this type of baseless hatred towards each other that we had our Temple destroyed.

Please!!! Lets WORK ON UNITY, May we Speedily Merit to have Moshiach in our days.

47

 Feb 24, 2009 at 12:48 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

I seem to recall that Reb Moshe was a Litvak and proud of it.
And Lubavitch has a great problem with minhagei hamaom when they come to a place. No matter how frum the place is, Lubavitch has their own 'standards' and calls everyone else apikorsim.
Remember that each chabad shaliach is granted a 'franchise' in an area. They are not coming out of the goodness of their hearts. This is their parnossa and woe to the litvak that gets in their way.

what parnosa-my sister, a shlucha in an area of LA shops for her cloths at goodwill. i wont even comment on the rest of your rant.

48

 Feb 24, 2009 at 01:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

I seem to recall that Reb Moshe was a Litvak and proud of it.
And Lubavitch has a great problem with minhagei hamaom when they come to a place. No matter how frum the place is, Lubavitch has their own 'standards' and calls everyone else apikorsim.
Remember that each chabad shaliach is granted a 'franchise' in an area. They are not coming out of the goodness of their hearts. This is their parnossa and woe to the litvak that gets in their way.

DOn't lie because you want to make a point.the lubavitcher rebbe said clearly that in our generation no one is actually learned enough to be an actual apikorus.do you actually think that someone leaves his home ,family and friends to live in a far flung place like vilna to make a living?i guess all that good will from the mumbai massacre has begun to dissapate.

49

 Feb 24, 2009 at 01:14 PM Chaim B. Says:

It is definatyely not right not to alow a jew the right to a minyan....Shame on you.

But this has to be dealt with and in respectfull maner.

Let them send some mispalelim.

How can you kick out a jew especially a rav.... what a discrace.

50

 Feb 24, 2009 at 01:30 PM David Says:

I've read comments questioning why R. Krinsky does not have his own minyan, after 5 years ... I've read comments that he is after the money ... The answers to these questions are beyond the scope of this article. However, what is clear is that the members of the shul are denying a fellow Jew the opportunity to say kaddish, in effect, denying themselves the opporunity for the mitza of responding to his kaddish. I do not remember reading anything so revolting in quite some time.

51

 Feb 24, 2009 at 01:46 PM Litvak Ben Litvak Says:

Burshtein is a KGB agent

This guy Burshtein is a am ho'oretz d'oiraisa. He can't read ivre. He "davens" from a sidur with russian translation. He is not a rabbi, he is a BUR. and a choteh umachtie es horabim.

I have met this shoteh on a bussiness trip to Vilna. His entire "shabbos drasha" in shul was that we are not allowed to have a nussach ari siddur in shul.

After his "Enlightening Drasha" I asked him in private what he has against the Arizal Hakodosh, his response was shocking, he told me "what do you mean he was a Lubavitcher"

This guy is not frum. He is a russian who is trying to grab headlines and claim to be Head Rabbi of Vilna.

It's a shame the real litvishe oilom can't get our act together and send this so called "kehilah" a Rabbi that knows how to read hebrew and is shomer shabbos.

After all we are talking about the shul of the Gra Zatzal.

A Litvak Ben Litvak

52

 Feb 24, 2009 at 01:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #34  
Anonymous Says:

Now that Rubashkin is not on the front page, Milhouse had to show up spouting his hate on something else.

What is all this fighting about. There is no longer any theological differences between Litvasher and Chasidishe yidden so why the machlokes.

53

 Feb 24, 2009 at 01:47 PM 1084 Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

there is not hing wrong with LITHUAINIANS choosing a LITHUIOANIAN Rbabi in their tradtitinos in the original place and not a chabad shliach who think they own the world. the behaivior of this guy and his helpers is the reason he got kicked out. violence never solved anything.

yechi ....

u stand to be corrected rabbi not guy

54

 Feb 24, 2009 at 01:59 PM Burshtein is scarry Says:

I have googled this guy burshtein and it seems pretty scarry what this man is up to.

55

 Feb 24, 2009 at 01:57 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #51  
Litvak Ben Litvak Says:

Burshtein is a KGB agent

This guy Burshtein is a am ho'oretz d'oiraisa. He can't read ivre. He "davens" from a sidur with russian translation. He is not a rabbi, he is a BUR. and a choteh umachtie es horabim.

I have met this shoteh on a bussiness trip to Vilna. His entire "shabbos drasha" in shul was that we are not allowed to have a nussach ari siddur in shul.

After his "Enlightening Drasha" I asked him in private what he has against the Arizal Hakodosh, his response was shocking, he told me "what do you mean he was a Lubavitcher"

This guy is not frum. He is a russian who is trying to grab headlines and claim to be Head Rabbi of Vilna.

It's a shame the real litvishe oilom can't get our act together and send this so called "kehilah" a Rabbi that knows how to read hebrew and is shomer shabbos.

After all we are talking about the shul of the Gra Zatzal.

A Litvak Ben Litvak

Shame on your. Rav Burshtein is a grosse tzadik and a talmid chachom. Your lack of derech eretz is more indicative of the lack of midos among Litveshe yiddim than antying else. Also, many psokim have said it is not appropriate to have sidurim with nusach Ari in shuls.

56

 Feb 24, 2009 at 03:02 PM Kogan Says:

Reply to #55  
Anonymous Says:

Shame on your. Rav Burshtein is a grosse tzadik and a talmid chachom. Your lack of derech eretz is more indicative of the lack of midos among Litveshe yiddim than antying else. Also, many psokim have said it is not appropriate to have sidurim with nusach Ari in shuls.

Which poskim prohibit nusach Ari siddurim from shuls? Please Sources.

57

 Feb 24, 2009 at 02:58 PM Esnaged Says:

As usual, out come all the chabad apologists throwing as much muck as they can. Maybe they don't believe in the laws of loshon horo?

58

 Feb 24, 2009 at 02:40 PM Ironic Says:

It's funny that everyone who has contact with the Lubavitcher shluchim have nothing but praise and gratitude to them for their help, warmth and frumkeit. But all of the armchair poskim are ready to judge the situation without even batting an eyelid.

59

 Feb 24, 2009 at 03:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

Such a beautiful picture of achdus in a troubled yiddeshe community. It is a wonderful example for olams in other parts of the world of how yiddim can come together in times of stress to hasten zman moishiach. Kol hakovod to these meshegoim for making the fights between the Satmer rebbes in BP and KJ look like "family feud".

I wouldn't go that far. They get pretty feisty in Satmar.

60

 Feb 24, 2009 at 03:21 PM Harav Chaim Ozer also had to fight for his Rabbonus Says:

Before second world war they tried to take away the Rabbonus From Harav Chaim Ozer as well. That is the tradition they have. They want to control the Rabbi.
It is well known that the Vilna tradition is that Harav Chaim Ozer helped all the yeshivah Buchrim from different yeshivos escaping the nazis and russians .
He made sure that each yeshiva, including Lubavitch should keep its integrity and style. When he was about to pass away and after, the Lubavitcher Buchrim went to say Tehillim for him.
True Gadlus is when there is Achdus (unity)
After requesting a Lubavitcher Shliach in 1994 and serving them for 10 years, using the misnagdim, Chasidim card doesn't sound right.
Vilna right before the war was a place for achdus for the yeshivishe and chasidishe worlds, and both groups had problems with those that had to a certain extent or another had assimilated.
It seems that the next 54 years had a bigger effect on them while the yeshivos, Chasidishe and Litvishe after many wanderings, many in Japan and Shanchai and other places were able to rebuild in Eretz Yisroel, in America, and Chabad all over the world, and even though there are differences, it would never come to the mind of any Litvishe not to allow a Chabad Chosid to say Kadish for his mother.
This article somehow appears to me it indirectly tries to let the reader think that the differences the Litvishe have with Chassidim would grant such behavior of not allowing a Chosid to say kadish and it is ridicoulous.
Members of the community of Vilna. Make Achdus please

61

 Feb 24, 2009 at 03:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

I seem to recall that Reb Moshe was a Litvak and proud of it.
And Lubavitch has a great problem with minhagei hamaom when they come to a place. No matter how frum the place is, Lubavitch has their own 'standards' and calls everyone else apikorsim.
Remember that each chabad shaliach is granted a 'franchise' in an area. They are not coming out of the goodness of their hearts. This is their parnossa and woe to the litvak that gets in their way.

Parnossah - your kidding!
Lubavitch first of all are not forced to go on shlichus - its only if you would like. If your looking for a good parnasa this is definitly not the buisness. If you looking to touch neshomos you found the right thing

62

 Feb 24, 2009 at 03:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

I seem to recall that Reb Moshe was a Litvak and proud of it.
And Lubavitch has a great problem with minhagei hamaom when they come to a place. No matter how frum the place is, Lubavitch has their own 'standards' and calls everyone else apikorsim.
Remember that each chabad shaliach is granted a 'franchise' in an area. They are not coming out of the goodness of their hearts. This is their parnossa and woe to the litvak that gets in their way.

"Lubavitch has their own 'standards' and calls everyone else apikorsim"

Is that so? I know they have an ego (healthy or not), but I thought the above is more the characristics of Lithuanians.

63

 Feb 24, 2009 at 03:33 PM Anonymous Says:

After scrolling down and reading many comments, I think we all need to realize that we can't know an entire situation based on one article. There is obviously more to the story, from both sides.
However, I just have one thing to point out: I can't imagine a Chabad house throwing anybody out like that. Give him a warning to be on his best behavior, have a guard stand near him, maybe. But to just throw him out- meaning he may not be able to say kaddish?
The reason Chabad is so accepting is that they view each Jew by their neshama. I work in a Chabad Preschool. I remember when a parent did something really wrong to a staff member, something that would have caused their child to be expelled from other schools. But the director said, "If we expel this child, that is the end of yiddishkeit in his life. So, we overlook certain things and keep our main goal in mind. If a person offered us millions of dollars, imagine what we would put up with. And look what they're giving us- their child, who is priceless!"

64

 Feb 24, 2009 at 03:32 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #57  
Esnaged Says:

As usual, out come all the chabad apologists throwing as much muck as they can. Maybe they don't believe in the laws of loshon horo?

"As usual, out come all the misnaged apologists throwing as much muck as they can. Maybe they don't believe in the laws of loshon horo?" There, fixed that for you.

Seriously, I hope you see just how silly your statement was (and all those who opine likewise while having little or no information besides what appears in the Stench Trench Tool (a.k.a "Yated Ne'eman") and similar one-sided publications.

65

 Feb 24, 2009 at 03:50 PM R U Bored In CH? Says:

You seem to have a lot of time on your hands!
Krinsky threw out violent mishichistin from 770, I wouldn't compare that to the nazis.
I would compare the violent pagan Yechiniks (Mishichistim) to Nazis.
By the way Krinsky won the case you'll soon be screaming yechi in a mental house.

66

 Feb 24, 2009 at 03:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #56  
Kogan Says:

Which poskim prohibit nusach Ari siddurim from shuls? Please Sources.

While much of Rabbi Schneur Zalman's siddur is based on the Nusach Ari as composed by the AriZal himself, it is also compiled based on the poseks and compositions from various other sources. The Alter Rebbe acknowledged this by entitling his sidur "Al Pi Nusach Ari," meaning that it deviates from the rigid requirements of the original nusach ari seforim. It differs from the other versions of the AriZal's siddur by incorporating many Litvashe forms of tfilot. It also includes many piutim and tfilot from the Siddur of Rav Shalom Sharabi, Z'tl but very much condensed compared with the original. Most of the gadilim (almost all of whom are Litvashe) would not allow a "hard core" nusach ari siddur in their shul or beth medrash.

67

 Feb 24, 2009 at 04:10 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #55  
Anonymous Says:

Shame on your. Rav Burshtein is a grosse tzadik and a talmid chachom. Your lack of derech eretz is more indicative of the lack of midos among Litveshe yiddim than antying else. Also, many psokim have said it is not appropriate to have sidurim with nusach Ari in shuls.

Yeah, right. Such a tzadik and talmid chochom, just like you, sheigetz. Of course you hide behind the Anonymous label, so you can't be held accountable for anything you write; you can always say that was someone else.

68

 Feb 24, 2009 at 04:09 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #38  
Cahssid Says:

the vilna kehilah did not ask for krinsky to come vilna, "no one ordain krinsky to be rov of vilan so the jews from vilna have a right to do what they desire

On the contrary, the same mechalel shabbos Alperovitch who threw him out is the one who asked Lubavitch to send someone in the first place. Then after Krinsky worked for ten years, and it appeared that there might be reparations money, the sheigetz decided to throw Krinsky out and import another sheigets as "rov".

69

 Feb 24, 2009 at 04:06 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #55  
Anonymous Says:

Shame on your. Rav Burshtein is a grosse tzadik and a talmid chachom. Your lack of derech eretz is more indicative of the lack of midos among Litveshe yiddim than antying else. Also, many psokim have said it is not appropriate to have sidurim with nusach Ari in shuls.

You liar. LIAR. There is no other word. Burshtein is a sheigetz and you are a sheigetz, and not a single posek anywhere has said any such thing. Unless you count the Pope as your posek. Where do people get the chutzpah to just lie like this?

70

 Feb 24, 2009 at 04:54 PM Snag Says:

Bringng nusach ari sidurim into the Gra's shul is the ultimate chutzpa.

Hagam lichbosh es hamalka IMMI BABOYIS.

71

 Feb 24, 2009 at 04:47 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #66  
Anonymous Says:

While much of Rabbi Schneur Zalman's siddur is based on the Nusach Ari as composed by the AriZal himself, it is also compiled based on the poseks and compositions from various other sources. The Alter Rebbe acknowledged this by entitling his sidur "Al Pi Nusach Ari," meaning that it deviates from the rigid requirements of the original nusach ari seforim. It differs from the other versions of the AriZal's siddur by incorporating many Litvashe forms of tfilot. It also includes many piutim and tfilot from the Siddur of Rav Shalom Sharabi, Z'tl but very much condensed compared with the original. Most of the gadilim (almost all of whom are Litvashe) would not allow a "hard core" nusach ari siddur in their shul or beth medrash.

Garbage. I dare you to name a godol who would not allow a valid siddur, of any nusach, into a shul. Such a person is not a godol, he's a very small koton.

72

 Feb 24, 2009 at 04:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #33  
Dovid Says:

Why is it that in the Vilna shul, everyboy speaks in Russian? If they are Lithuanians, why don't they speak in Lithuanian?
Or is it that the majority of the Jews there, are immigrants that came during the Soviet Occupation?

You fool, no yidden spoke the filthy lithuanian language, whether they lived there before or after the soviet occupation. remember, the russian empire ruled lita for many years prior. yidden spoke yiddish or russian, nothing else. i challenge u to find a single sefer printed in lita that contains roman language characters (which is how lithuanian is written in) rather than cyrillic (russian). you wont be able to.

73

 Feb 24, 2009 at 04:27 PM Anonymous Says:

These 'litvaks' are not frum and disguise their fear of real yiddishkeit as having to do with a litvische approach.
Another example of the mesiras nefesh of the shluchim to offer the only real haven of yiddishkeit despite opposition.
This man deserves the support of every frume yid. Period.

74

 Feb 24, 2009 at 06:04 PM 1084 Says:

Reply to #7  
Anonymous Says:

this is disgusting im speechless ...throw a jew out of a shuel , ??????

not just anyone but a rabbi

75

 Feb 24, 2009 at 05:59 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #70  
Snag Says:

Bringng nusach ari sidurim into the Gra's shul is the ultimate chutzpa.

Hagam lichbosh es hamalka IMMI BABOYIS.

1. It's not the GRO's shul.

2. The GRO made a terrible mistake when he made his infamous cherem, but at least he was motivated lesheim shomayim. Now he's in Olom Ho'emes and knows he was mistaken. His successors who saw that they had been mistaken about the chassidim made peace. Only those who were never motivated leshem shomayim continue the machlokes. So what's your excuse?

76

 Feb 24, 2009 at 05:58 PM Chaim Vital Says:

Looks like burshtein is going to be sent flying soon so they decided to publish this "story"

how would a small thing happening in vilnus between 2 people make it here on the internet with a anti-chabad slant?

well goodbye you sick snags

77

 Feb 24, 2009 at 05:58 PM The Truth Abou Says:

Rabbi Krinsky came to Vilna over a decade ago by the invitation of Mr. Alpervoicius and others to start Chabad. He had great Hazlacha, and led the daavening in the Shul for many years.
Things changed when Alpervoidcius wanted to control the restitution process that could mean millions in revenue. He was the head of the secular community and organized an election of a few old people to control the "Religious Community" which was crucial to getting the money according to Lithuanian Law. Rabbi Krinsky was an obstacle to his full control of the the funds. He came up with a lame excuse that "we are Misnagdim". He imported Rabbi Burstein who has vicious hatred of Chabad. He used thugs to throw Rabbi Krinsky out of the Shul.
Rabbi Krinksy has hundreds coming to major events like Chanukah and other programs. These Jews, who were under Communist rule for many decades have little knowledge of daavening etc.
Around Chanukah a few Rabbonim came to town and Rabbi Krinskyy and they met with Mr. Alpervious to create some Shalom. Alpervoicius rebuffed their attempts.
A few weeks ago Rabbi Krinsky's mother passed away in Boston. He simply wants to say Kaddish and quietly contacted Mr. Alpervoicius who refuses to allow him in the Shul.
Rabbi Krinsky wants to daaven in the Shul on weekdays were there is a Minyan of people supported by Alpervioius and funds from the JDC. He has Minyanim on Shabbos and Yom Tov at the Chabad Center.
What we have here is a Jew who has dedicated himself to a community of Jews very assimilated, send dozens away to Yeshivas, camps and schools. Given hundreds, if not thousands of others an dose of Yiddiskiet. And and old Lithuanian Jew, who wants control of millions of dollars of restitution money and will stop at nothing, including violence, intimidation to get his way. So far to ban a Jew from saying kaddish for his mother.

78

 Feb 24, 2009 at 05:23 PM SomethingWrongWithThisPicture Says:

Who can count the Yidden who were enabled to daven with a minyan and say kaddish by relying on Chabad Centers, Shuls and Shluchim?
It must be payback time.
Everyone who has been touched by a shliach needs to be aghast at this outrage!
Someone please post the email of Alperovitch and Co. Inc. so that the frum world can weigh in on this.

79

 Feb 24, 2009 at 05:22 PM Read In the Vilna Times Says:

If you read in the Vilna Times English Edition you will find the conection of Burshtein with the Russian Maffia who apparently want to control the restitution money coming from the Government.

80

 Feb 24, 2009 at 05:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #72  
Anonymous Says:

You fool, no yidden spoke the filthy lithuanian language, whether they lived there before or after the soviet occupation. remember, the russian empire ruled lita for many years prior. yidden spoke yiddish or russian, nothing else. i challenge u to find a single sefer printed in lita that contains roman language characters (which is how lithuanian is written in) rather than cyrillic (russian). you wont be able to.

You should read the excellent posting from Milhouse about how all the great rabbonim of the time spoke and communicated with their olams in Lithuanian.

81

 Feb 24, 2009 at 05:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #51  
Litvak Ben Litvak Says:

Burshtein is a KGB agent

This guy Burshtein is a am ho'oretz d'oiraisa. He can't read ivre. He "davens" from a sidur with russian translation. He is not a rabbi, he is a BUR. and a choteh umachtie es horabim.

I have met this shoteh on a bussiness trip to Vilna. His entire "shabbos drasha" in shul was that we are not allowed to have a nussach ari siddur in shul.

After his "Enlightening Drasha" I asked him in private what he has against the Arizal Hakodosh, his response was shocking, he told me "what do you mean he was a Lubavitcher"

This guy is not frum. He is a russian who is trying to grab headlines and claim to be Head Rabbi of Vilna.

It's a shame the real litvishe oilom can't get our act together and send this so called "kehilah" a Rabbi that knows how to read hebrew and is shomer shabbos.

After all we are talking about the shul of the Gra Zatzal.

A Litvak Ben Litvak

We are not talking about "the shul of the Gra Zatzal"! It was built many years after the Gra, by the more assimilated parts of the community. However, it is the only remaining shul in Vilna (a beautiful building, as well) since the Gra's shul was destroyed (partially by the Nazis, then the communists finished off the rest).

82

 Feb 24, 2009 at 06:14 PM 1084 Says:

Reply to #67  
Milhouse Says:

Yeah, right. Such a tzadik and talmid chochom, just like you, sheigetz. Of course you hide behind the Anonymous label, so you can't be held accountable for anything you write; you can always say that was someone else.

alright stop this argument it is baseless

83

 Feb 24, 2009 at 06:42 PM TexasFriend Says:

you know this stinks - regardless and I'd probably side with Chabad just because they do all this stuff for the right reasons (ye ye we know it all) ..not to allow him to say kaddish regardless of anything is downright shameful. I will side with a chabad shaliach 100 times faster then with anyone else. Its just one of those things and most probably feel the same way except for the obvious ones ;/

That said the krinsky that is trying to rid the NUTS from 770 good luck - last time I was there I was shocked...I pity my Lubab friends who live there - now I understand them better.

84

 Feb 24, 2009 at 06:18 PM 1084 Says:

Reply to #75  
Milhouse Says:

1. It's not the GRO's shul.

2. The GRO made a terrible mistake when he made his infamous cherem, but at least he was motivated lesheim shomayim. Now he's in Olom Ho'emes and knows he was mistaken. His successors who saw that they had been mistaken about the chassidim made peace. Only those who were never motivated leshem shomayim continue the machlokes. So what's your excuse?

milhouse u have no clue what ur writting bec u have never been to the oalm haemes you will see how hard it is just to be like the groztzal

85

 Feb 24, 2009 at 07:55 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #82  
1084 Says:

alright stop this argument it is baseless

No. This sheygetz spews his filthy mouth, while hiding like a coward behind the "anonymous" label, and I should let him get away with it?

86

 Feb 24, 2009 at 07:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #20  
Funny Says:

The non shomer shabbos president of the community probably comes from chassidim. Because if he would come from litvishe than he wouldn't be so into the mesorah:).

B H the chasidim have nothing what to be ashamed from the misnagdim

87

 Feb 24, 2009 at 08:22 PM dovy Says:

Reply to #85  
Milhouse Says:

No. This sheygetz spews his filthy mouth, while hiding like a coward behind the "anonymous" label, and I should let him get away with it?

You really should watch how you talk about the GR"a. People have suffered terrible yissurim for far less. You don't really think you can call him mistaken, do you?

88

 Feb 24, 2009 at 09:09 PM I Think it's the Vilna Post Says:

Reply to #79  
Read In the Vilna Times Says:

If you read in the Vilna Times English Edition you will find the conection of Burshtein with the Russian Maffia who apparently want to control the restitution money coming from the Government.

I also read about Burshtein and his affiliations with the Russian Mob. However I think its actually in the Vilna Post, not Times.

89

 Feb 24, 2009 at 09:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #75  
Milhouse Says:

1. It's not the GRO's shul.

2. The GRO made a terrible mistake when he made his infamous cherem, but at least he was motivated lesheim shomayim. Now he's in Olom Ho'emes and knows he was mistaken. His successors who saw that they had been mistaken about the chassidim made peace. Only those who were never motivated leshem shomayim continue the machlokes. So what's your excuse?

How dare you speak such words of the holy GRA zaztzal?! Please retract and beg forgiveness for uttering such a statement.

90

 Feb 24, 2009 at 09:41 PM bigwheeel Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

Such a beautiful picture of achdus in a troubled yiddeshe community. It is a wonderful example for olams in other parts of the world of how yiddim can come together in times of stress to hasten zman moishiach. Kol hakovod to these meshegoim for making the fights between the Satmer rebbes in BP and KJ look like "family feud".

...And Goyim beating up a Jew (not that a fight between Jews looks any nicer. But at least it's "All in the Family"! I was going to say something pointedly humorous, but I'm so saddened by the accompanying picture!!!

91

 Feb 24, 2009 at 09:14 PM Litvak Ben Litvak II Says:

Reply to #87  
dovy Says:

You really should watch how you talk about the GR"a. People have suffered terrible yissurim for far less. You don't really think you can call him mistaken, do you?

Putting Chasidim in Cherem was definitly wrong. He was simply misled to belive that chasidim would C"V not follow the Mesorah. However with time it was shown that it was an honest mistake but he did it Lshaim SHomayim.

92

 Feb 24, 2009 at 09:35 PM 1084 Says:

Reply to #85  
Milhouse Says:

No. This sheygetz spews his filthy mouth, while hiding like a coward behind the "anonymous" label, and I should let him get away with it?

sorry wrong person i write short

93

 Feb 24, 2009 at 10:06 PM Anonymous Says:

hey at least the money was well spent fighting mishichists he was doing a great mitzvah!!

94

 Feb 25, 2009 at 04:41 AM Ex Vilna Says:

Krinsky has built up all the yiddishkeit in Vilna but cannot get a minyan to his shule. Doesn't sound very believable.

When I was in Vilna I was told that Krinsky arrived and decided that he is the chief Rabbi of Vilna. A very attractive idea as the Kehilla owns millions in real estate. But the Vilna kehilla is not a Chabad House. Krinsky does not have the local support and is seen as a trouble maker.

95

 Feb 25, 2009 at 02:27 AM garnel Says:

Reply to #85  
Milhouse Says:

No. This sheygetz spews his filthy mouth, while hiding like a coward behind the "anonymous" label, and I should let him get away with it?

Millhaus,
Are you better because you are hiding behind a made up name?
Grow up evrybody,please

96

 Feb 24, 2009 at 11:17 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #89  
Anonymous Says:

How dare you speak such words of the holy GRA zaztzal?! Please retract and beg forgiveness for uttering such a statement.

Look, there are only two possiblities: a) he was mistaken about the chasidim, and acted leshem shomayim; or b) he knew the chasidim were innocent and deliberately pronounced a false cherem because he was a rasha. There aren't any other choices. Now which one is more in his kovod to assume? The chasidim always assumed a) was true. They continued to respect him even after he did this terrible thing. But you, apparently, think it wasn't a mistake; that he did it on purpose. And YOU want ME to retract and beg forgiveness? You're the one besmirching his reputation!

97

 Feb 24, 2009 at 11:16 PM Anonymous Says:

watch our for fire-- cuz that's what machlokes brings

98

 Feb 25, 2009 at 05:37 AM litvak Says:

Reply to #71  
Milhouse Says:

Garbage. I dare you to name a godol who would not allow a valid siddur, of any nusach, into a shul. Such a person is not a godol, he's a very small koton.

The Rebbe would not allow a conservative or reform siddur to come into 770.

99

 Feb 25, 2009 at 06:39 AM Chasid Says:

Reply to #75  
Milhouse Says:

1. It's not the GRO's shul.

2. The GRO made a terrible mistake when he made his infamous cherem, but at least he was motivated lesheim shomayim. Now he's in Olom Ho'emes and knows he was mistaken. His successors who saw that they had been mistaken about the chassidim made peace. Only those who were never motivated leshem shomayim continue the machlokes. So what's your excuse?

Millhouse,
How dare you talk this way about the great Vilna Gaon?!?
Aphra Lepumaychu.
I've lost all respect for you.

100

 Feb 25, 2009 at 07:51 AM Litvak Says:

Reply to #99  
Chasid Says:

Millhouse,
How dare you talk this way about the great Vilna Gaon?!?
Aphra Lepumaychu.
I've lost all respect for you.

It would appear that this is a great chillul hashem perpetuated by Lubavitch. If they did not come there, there would be no machlokes.

Milhouse sems to act like a chamor blei daas - act then think of your actions later.

101

 Feb 25, 2009 at 07:52 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #99  
Chasid Says:

Millhouse,
How dare you talk this way about the great Vilna Gaon?!?
Aphra Lepumaychu.
I've lost all respect for you.

We had an extended discussion on another message board last night about Milhouse and several people commented that he apparently has lost his marbles and apparently makes these hateful comments to everyong and disparages yidden from every derech. Since VIN does not provide an automated "ignore" function, we just decided not to respond to him any more and maybe he will get tired on hid mindless rants against all the gadolim and just go away.

102

 Feb 25, 2009 at 08:08 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #98  
litvak Says:

The Rebbe would not allow a conservative or reform siddur to come into 770.

The quote was a "valid siddur". A conservative or reform prayer book obviously does not fall into that category.

103

 Feb 25, 2009 at 08:22 AM Anonymous Says:

From my visits to Vilna before 2003, the Nusach in the shul was and remained Ashkenaz, even though Rabbi Krinsky was in charge

104

 Feb 25, 2009 at 08:56 AM Lakewooder Litvak Says:

I respect Chabad very much for their outstanding work that most of us are Bichlal not capable of doing.

This Burshtein was here in Lakewood about 2 years ago trying to meet with the Roshei Yeshiva. When Rav M. K. wasn't available to meet with him, he went on rant how the Gedolim don't care about him and his work. This guy is a Mechutzif and a real moron.

Who does he think he is to speak about a Gadol.

At a later time I learned that the Rosh Yeshiva didn't want to get involved in a Machlokes and take sides.

This guy gives the impression of a Bur and AM ho'oretz who we should not even bother responding to.

I would like to see a real Litvishe/Yeshivishe Rov take this Burshtein monster over and show the vilna kehila what a rov should really look like.

105

 Feb 25, 2009 at 08:56 AM 770Guy Says:

Reply to #100  
Litvak Says:

It would appear that this is a great chillul hashem perpetuated by Lubavitch. If they did not come there, there would be no machlokes.

Milhouse sems to act like a chamor blei daas - act then think of your actions later.

How can yo say this ? Chillul hashem by Lubavitch??? I am not sure of the details of the imcident but the only statement that may be true is that it is a chillul hashem by an INDIVIDUAL who is Lubavitch. To accuse Lubavitch of chillul hashem is an insult

106

 Feb 25, 2009 at 09:22 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #102  
Anonymous Says:

The quote was a "valid siddur". A conservative or reform prayer book obviously does not fall into that category.

Of course they do. Have you ever read one? What are the differences between a conservative siddur and orthodox? Who gives you the right to attack other jew's siddurs? So much for Ahavas Yisroel.

107

 Feb 25, 2009 at 09:08 AM Kogan Says:

Reply to #100  
Litvak Says:

It would appear that this is a great chillul hashem perpetuated by Lubavitch. If they did not come there, there would be no machlokes.

Milhouse sems to act like a chamor blei daas - act then think of your actions later.

You got it wrong buddy. The great Chilul Hashem is perpetuated by r. Burshtein and his puppet master Alperovich. Chabad was there first.

The real Litvishe response should be to send 10 real Litvishe boys with a real Litvishe leader to come to Vilnus. They should surround r. Krinski and walk into the shul with him. Let him daven Nusach Ari by the Amud. This would be a real Litvishe response and a great Kiddush Hashem!

108

 Feb 25, 2009 at 10:24 AM The Truth About Vilna Says:

All the years that Rabbi Krinsky functioned as the Rav in the Shul the Nusach was Ashkenaz. No one attempted to change anything. Rabbi Krinsky even helped refurbish the grave of the Gra Tzal. None of the activities in the Shul had any importance until Alpervicous needed control of the "Religious Community" to receive the government funds that due to Lithuanian law only can go to a "religious community".
The tragedy is that all this Maklokes has prevented the restitution money to be distributed. The American Jewish Committee, that has no history in Vilna has tried to get a piece of the pie, the Conference of European Rabbis and others. Let the various elements of the community in Vilna sit around a table, divide up the funds for the use of the community. Stop the flow of money to the AJC for some civil rights work in the US etc. With the funds in trust there would be a real future of Yiddiskiet there.
Instead, Alpervious, working with outside groups has tried to hijack the process going so far to throw out the longstanding Rav, bring in the buffoon Burstien and use violence to advance his cause.

109

 Feb 25, 2009 at 12:22 PM Emmes Says:

Millhouse says: "Look, there are only two possiblities: a) he was mistaken about the chasidim, and acted leshem shomayim; or b) he knew the chasidim were innocent and deliberately pronounced a false cherem because he was a rasha. There aren't any other choices."

f course, there is a third option that you have ignored, that he was correct about the chassidim, and acted correctly.

It is also the most logical explanantion.

110

 Feb 25, 2009 at 02:09 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #107  
Kogan Says:

You got it wrong buddy. The great Chilul Hashem is perpetuated by r. Burshtein and his puppet master Alperovich. Chabad was there first.

The real Litvishe response should be to send 10 real Litvishe boys with a real Litvishe leader to come to Vilnus. They should surround r. Krinski and walk into the shul with him. Let him daven Nusach Ari by the Amud. This would be a real Litvishe response and a great Kiddush Hashem!

Chabad was there in 95. Litvaks were there for hunreds of years earlier.

The real litvishe respone is to ignore them and they will go away, like all other fads. True yiddishkets was practiced for thousands of years. Fads might be a few years old. but they are not what kept Yiddishkeit alive during history.

111

 Feb 25, 2009 at 02:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #109  
Emmes Says:

Millhouse says: "Look, there are only two possiblities: a) he was mistaken about the chasidim, and acted leshem shomayim; or b) he knew the chasidim were innocent and deliberately pronounced a false cherem because he was a rasha. There aren't any other choices."

f course, there is a third option that you have ignored, that he was correct about the chassidim, and acted correctly.

It is also the most logical explanantion.

If thats the way you feel I think every ehrliche yid would question your Yichus to see if in fact you are a real Jew.

To Say That The Belzer Rebbe The Gerrer Rebbe The Satmar rebbe The Lubavitcher Rebbe The Kaliver Rebbe the Bostoner rebbe Etc. are all in cherem than you are in effect saying that Reb Moshe Feinstein and reb Chaim Ozer and most of the gedolim violated this Cherem by meeting and coresponding with the Chasidishe rebbes.

112

 Feb 25, 2009 at 03:05 PM Kogan Says:

Reply to #110  
Anonymous Says:

Chabad was there in 95. Litvaks were there for hunreds of years earlier.

The real litvishe respone is to ignore them and they will go away, like all other fads. True yiddishkets was practiced for thousands of years. Fads might be a few years old. but they are not what kept Yiddishkeit alive during history.

If you are stupid at least don't show it. After onset of Soviet occupation and cosequently after the world war II how many observant litvishe Jews lived in Vilnus? Did litvak r. Burshtein live in Vilnus? In 1995 it was a desert as far as Yiddishkeit is concerned. So your "hundreds" of years were interrupted. I bet most of the Yidden that lived in Vilnus after the war were not necessary originally from there.

Now to put your ignorance on display even more. Can you please tell me how many litvishe Jews survived Soviet regime? How many insured that their children remained frum, learned Torah in chedorim and yeshivos, kept Shabbos, built and maintained mikvas, influenced many lost Yidishe neshomas to bring them closer to yiddishkeit?

Now answer the same question about Lubavitcher families in the former Soviet Union. If you are honest (which I highly doubt) you would crawl into a hole somewhere and would not come out for a week out of shame.

In my saying that Chabad was there before I was just correcting the previous poster who would have you believed that r. Burshtein was there his whole life and r. Krinski came in to make new waves. If they so wanted to bring a litvishe Rov, why bring somebody so vicious and hatefull. Why could it not be done with respect to the Rov who put in 10 difficult years there before to rekindle the warmth of Yiddishkeit?

Yes there probably still be hurt feelings, but not the hatred, the violence and sinas chinom displayed by r. Burshtein ( I am not even going to address colonel Alperovich, I am not sure what his real kgb rank is).

In conclusion Chabad is not a fad, Chabad is the only "brand" of Yiddishkeit that withstood the test of Soviet Union! The only One! So you will keep on eating your kishkes out till Moshiach comes, and then either way you are in trouble :)

113

 Feb 25, 2009 at 02:46 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #111  
Anonymous Says:

If thats the way you feel I think every ehrliche yid would question your Yichus to see if in fact you are a real Jew.

To Say That The Belzer Rebbe The Gerrer Rebbe The Satmar rebbe The Lubavitcher Rebbe The Kaliver Rebbe the Bostoner rebbe Etc. are all in cherem than you are in effect saying that Reb Moshe Feinstein and reb Chaim Ozer and most of the gedolim violated this Cherem by meeting and coresponding with the Chasidishe rebbes.

I looked at that quote and read it differently. I saw that there was a difference between the chassidic movement when it started out hundreds of years ago and now. Putting my great-great-great grandfather in Cherem 300 years ago should have no effect on me.

Please define the term 'real Jew', as you used it. Why would you not be dan lkaf zchus, as you would have us be???

114

 Feb 25, 2009 at 03:16 PM Bronxboy Says:

Reply to #18  
Anonymous Says:

I don't understand why he can't get a minyan in his own shul if he is such a wonderful guy. Do the people in Vilna who are interested in Dovening in a miyan know something we don't?

excellent reply!

115

 Feb 25, 2009 at 04:42 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #106  
Anonymous Says:

Of course they do. Have you ever read one? What are the differences between a conservative siddur and orthodox? Who gives you the right to attack other jew's siddurs? So much for Ahavas Yisroel.

Yes, I have read one. A conservative or reform "siddur" must be burned, just like a Christian book of prayer. It has no place in a shul. And NOBODY has the right to compare it to a Nusach Ari siddur.

As for Ahavas Yisroel, I have that for Jews who have fallen into the C or R heresies. There is no mitzvah to love the heresies themselves!

116

 Feb 25, 2009 at 04:38 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #101  
Anonymous Says:

We had an extended discussion on another message board last night about Milhouse and several people commented that he apparently has lost his marbles and apparently makes these hateful comments to everyong and disparages yidden from every derech. Since VIN does not provide an automated "ignore" function, we just decided not to respond to him any more and maybe he will get tired on hid mindless rants against all the gadolim and just go away.

Your multiple personality disorder does not interest me. You can have as many discussions with yourself as you like. So long as you post as "Anonymous" you have no standing to criticise me.

117

 Feb 25, 2009 at 04:37 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #100  
Litvak Says:

It would appear that this is a great chillul hashem perpetuated by Lubavitch. If they did not come there, there would be no machlokes.

Milhouse sems to act like a chamor blei daas - act then think of your actions later.

If they did not come there there would be no yiddishkeit at all.

118

 Feb 25, 2009 at 04:37 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #99  
Chasid Says:

Millhouse,
How dare you talk this way about the great Vilna Gaon?!?
Aphra Lepumaychu.
I've lost all respect for you.

How dare you pretend to be a chasid, while claiming that the Vilner Gaon's cherem was not a mistake? You're clearly a liar.

119

 Feb 25, 2009 at 04:35 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #98  
litvak Says:

The Rebbe would not allow a conservative or reform siddur to come into 770.

And now you're comparing a kosher siddur to a work of apikorsus, chas veshalom? You're only digging your hole deeper. I challenge you to name your so-called posek who doesn't allow nusach Ari siddurim into a shul.

120

 Feb 25, 2009 at 04:34 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #95  
garnel Says:

Millhaus,
Are you better because you are hiding behind a made up name?
Grow up evrybody,please

Yes. There is an enormous difference between commenting under a screen name, which has been the custom on BBSes since they started, and commenting anonymously. I have a reputation to maintain; these cowards have none. Any honest person can see that, so I can only assume that you are not.

121

 Feb 25, 2009 at 04:50 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #113  
Anonymous Says:

I looked at that quote and read it differently. I saw that there was a difference between the chassidic movement when it started out hundreds of years ago and now. Putting my great-great-great grandfather in Cherem 300 years ago should have no effect on me.

Please define the term 'real Jew', as you used it. Why would you not be dan lkaf zchus, as you would have us be???

Riiiiiight. So the chassidim of today are OK, but the chasidim of the Gra's time were resha'im who deserved to be put in cherem. The Baal Shem Tov, the Mezritcher Magid, the Baal Hatanya, the Toldos Yaakov Yosef, R Avrohom the Malach, the Berdichever, R Mendel Horodoker, the Noam Elimelech, R Zushe Anipoler, R Aharon and R Shlomo Karliner, R Mottel Chernobyler, R Volf Kitzes, and all the other chevraya kadisha, they were all worse than today's chasidim, and the Gra was right about them. Is that what you're saying?

If that's so, then commenter #111 is right that you're not a real Jew. That means your yichus is suspect. Somewhere in your family background, there is a shaigetz, and that is what causes you to have such chutzpah. R Akiva said about a young man who had chutzpah to the rabbanan that he was both a mamzer and a ben hanidah, and he proved to be right. If you think the cherem against the chasidim was not a terrible mistake, then I say the same about you. You are not a kosher Jew.

122

 Feb 25, 2009 at 06:43 PM Ahavas Yisroel Says:

Please-please everyone, its Adar. Why is everyone fighting against everyone?
This a critical time in history now, and we're fighting over this?
I live in a area where the litvishe rabbonim don't normally get along with the chabbad rabbonim- and its each to its own. true, its nice to do kiruv, and everything- but if we're not b'achdus- how do you expect mashiach to come? Think about the month we are in now, The yidden didn't listen to their rabbonim - Mordechai- and look what almost happened! Think about it...

123

 Feb 25, 2009 at 10:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #116  
Milhouse Says:

Your multiple personality disorder does not interest me. You can have as many discussions with yourself as you like. So long as you post as "Anonymous" you have no standing to criticise me.

Don't kid yourself. No one is wasting time discussing you.

124

 Feb 26, 2009 at 01:01 AM Tsap Says:

Millhaus,
You don't think you are getting carried away calling another frum yid a "mamzer ben niddah" Do you think you are R'Akiva?
The more posts from you that I read the more I lose respect for you and by extension what you are "defending".Let me be clear, they don't need your defense.Och oon vey if they did!

126

 Feb 26, 2009 at 06:31 AM Litvak Ben Litvak Says:

Reply to #124  
Tsap Says:

Millhaus,
You don't think you are getting carried away calling another frum yid a "mamzer ben niddah" Do you think you are R'Akiva?
The more posts from you that I read the more I lose respect for you and by extension what you are "defending".Let me be clear, they don't need your defense.Och oon vey if they did!

I happen to like the way Millhouse writes. I don't always agree with him but he has a good understanding of where things should be. Yasher Koach Milhouse.

And all those miserable snags get a life.

127

 Feb 26, 2009 at 02:34 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #124  
Tsap Says:

Millhaus,
You don't think you are getting carried away calling another frum yid a "mamzer ben niddah" Do you think you are R'Akiva?
The more posts from you that I read the more I lose respect for you and by extension what you are "defending".Let me be clear, they don't need your defense.Och oon vey if they did!

No, I don't think I'm getting carried away at all. My words were carefully considered. If the chutzpenyak in the braisa was a mamzer and ben hanidah just for going past the rabbonon without covering his head, how much more so anyone who dares to suggest that the Gro's cherem against the chasidim was justified.

The early misnagdim leshem shomayim were afraid that chasidus was just another cult like Shabsai Tzvi and Yakov Frank, and that it would end the same way, with its followers abandoning torah and mitzvos. Several generations later, when their descendants saw that the chasidim were still learning torah and doing mitzvos, and were in fact even frummer than the litvaks, and less infected by the haskoloh, they realised that their forebears had been mistaken, and they made peace with the chasidim. R Chaim Brisker said over 100 years ago that now that the truth is known about chasidim, there is no longer such a thing as a misnaged leshem shomayim, and anyone who continues in hisnagdus is just doing so leshem machlokes.

128

 Feb 26, 2009 at 02:26 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #124  
Tsap Says:

Millhaus,
You don't think you are getting carried away calling another frum yid a "mamzer ben niddah" Do you think you are R'Akiva?
The more posts from you that I read the more I lose respect for you and by extension what you are "defending".Let me be clear, they don't need your defense.Och oon vey if they did!

No, I don't think I'm getting carried away at all. My words were carefully considered. If the chutzpenyak in the braisa was a mamzer and ben hanidah just for going past the rabbonon without covering his head, how much more so anyone who dares to suggest that the Gro's cherem against the chasidim was justified.

129

 Feb 26, 2009 at 02:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #128  
Milhouse Says:

No, I don't think I'm getting carried away at all. My words were carefully considered. If the chutzpenyak in the braisa was a mamzer and ben hanidah just for going past the rabbonon without covering his head, how much more so anyone who dares to suggest that the Gro's cherem against the chasidim was justified.

Becaue of your nivel peh, and the inability of your 'friends to disassociate from you, I firmly believe that the Gra was justified.

130

 Mar 01, 2009 at 01:21 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #129  
Anonymous Says:

Becaue of your nivel peh, and the inability of your 'friends to disassociate from you, I firmly believe that the Gra was justified.

If that is what you believe then you deserve every possible insult. But what are you calling nivul peh? Both terms I used - mamzer and ben hanidah - are taken directly from R Akiva; are you accusing him of nivul peh?

131

 Mar 01, 2009 at 12:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #130  
Milhouse Says:

If that is what you believe then you deserve every possible insult. But what are you calling nivul peh? Both terms I used - mamzer and ben hanidah - are taken directly from R Akiva; are you accusing him of nivul peh?

When you have the ruach hakodesh of Rabbi Akiva, then you will know what is appropriate to say and when, As if yet, you don't so therefore you are a nivul peh.

132

 Mar 05, 2009 at 07:20 PM Somebody who was present during previous (few years ago) "fight"... :( Says:

1.) R. Krinsky did (and still does) a lot for the Jewish community in Lithuania. I know because I was there too. I'm a local so I don't have any other reasons except my experience to say what I say.
2.) Mr. Alperavicius is not (as Chabadniks say "yet") religious. I don't see any logic in his attempt to name himself (and many similar guys there) "misnagdim" or Litvishe. The mistake is the he is right about "misnaged" part (meaning "opponent") but totally wrong about the Litvishe part. You know why? Because in order to be able to call himself either Litvish OR Chassid - he has to be observant according to that shita / minhag. But somebody who's not doing it - how can he call himself either of them? It's rediculous!
3.) As was mentioned - and I'm 200% sure - the real reason for that stupid strife is nothing else but money. (I mean the restitution money from Lithuanian government.) I don't know R. Krinsky's ideas about how to use it - but I'm pretty sure that Mr. Alperavicius would NOT spend it on REAL (religious) Jewish things... And Chabad is always in need of money - to help increase Jewish (real = religious) life in Lithuania.
4.) In ANY case - what is happening there and what happened before - is a huge Hillul H'... Especially the fact that Mr. Alperavicius used goyim to help him to throw (btw PHYSICALLY - I was nearby at the time) R. Krinsky out of the shul. Only a Jew with no real care for Jewish values could act like that. A Rabbi is a Rabbi - even if somebody doesn't like him particulary. And Torah says you must honor the Rabbys - not throw them out of the shul.
5.) Final point - we need Moshiach as soon as possible and the only way to speed him up is through Achdus - unity of all Jews. So let's stop all stupid strifes and greet Moshiach Tzidkeinu TODAY!!! :D

133

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