Welcome, Guest! - or
Easy to remember!  »  VinNews.com

Poughkeepsie, NY - Chabad Rabbi To Take Congregation in Hot Air Ballon for Birkat HaChama

Published on: April 5, 2009 07:50 PM
Last updated on: April 6, 2009 02:35 PM
By: PR
Change text size Text Size  

Poughkeepsie, NY - Rabbi Hanoch Hecht and members of the Jewish community of Rhinebeck , New York will ascend in hot air balloons to Rabbi Takes Congregation in Hot Air Ballons.
Birkat HaChama (the blessing of the sun) is a ceremony in which Jews recite a blessing on the Sun as it returns to the place it was appointed during Creation. It occurs every 28 years and always on a Wednesday.
The congregation will set out to perform the cermony from James Beard Park in Rhinbeck at 6:00 AM, Wednesday April 8th. 

Advertisement:

PLEASE NOTE: A previous advisory mistakenly placed the launch site in Rhinebeck. The correct location is James Baird State Park in Pleasant Valley, NY as noted below.



More of today's headlines

Jerusalem - Secular residents of Jerusalem's Kiryat Hayovel neighborhood chalked up a victory against their ultra-Orthodox neighbors when a court barred prayer services... Jerusalem - Israeli archaeologists are inspecting the Western Wall stone by stone in a new conservation effort at the Jewish holy site. The oldest stones were laid...

 

Total66

Read Comments (66)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Apr 05, 2009 at 07:06 PM murray Says:

Very nice idea, but if the weather , especially winds are not just right they should cancel- These contraptions can be dangerous, and even turn deadly (C'V")

2

 Apr 05, 2009 at 07:03 PM Anonymous Says:

These people are really full of hot air

3

 Apr 05, 2009 at 07:01 PM wow Says:

awesome! is it open to the public?

4

 Apr 05, 2009 at 07:01 PM talmudist Says:

This Rabbi is full of Hot air. I guess this will realy bring him closer to the sun. Proportionally it will bring him closer like 2-1/2 centimeters.

5

 Apr 05, 2009 at 07:11 PM Anonymous Says:

why not !!!!!!!! ONLY CHABAD

6

 Apr 05, 2009 at 08:07 PM Anonymous Says:


I think its a sholeh if its ok to make the bruchu like this....even from a air plane its not 100 percent good

7

 Apr 05, 2009 at 08:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
murray Says:

Very nice idea, but if the weather , especially winds are not just right they should cancel- These contraptions can be dangerous, and even turn deadly (C'V")

Not to worry. The balloon operators don't leave unless conditions are just right. Early morning actually usually hasn't the least wind which is why many hot air balloon rides are at dawn.

8

 Apr 05, 2009 at 07:37 PM Jewish mother Says:

Jewish people everywhere are busy getting ready for Pesach.

9

 Apr 05, 2009 at 07:35 PM Anonymous Says:

keep all your stupid comments to yourselves! Its a wonderful thing this rabbi is doing and he is also being mekarev the people and teaching them more about judiasm. good job Rabbi Hanoch Hecht!!

10

 Apr 05, 2009 at 07:32 PM ShatzMatz Says:

Reply to #4  
talmudist Says:

This Rabbi is full of Hot air. I guess this will realy bring him closer to the sun. Proportionally it will bring him closer like 2-1/2 centimeters.

I doubt this is an attempt to get closer to the sun. It is probably to get above the cloud cover. chances are high for an overcast day on wednesday.

11

 Apr 05, 2009 at 08:28 PM CHABAD FAN Says:

Whatever works! even if one single soul, is prompted to do a double take about judaism, its all worth it (according to their philosophy)

12

 Apr 05, 2009 at 08:27 PM moshe kapoyer Says:

He should just go to the moon much more fun.

13

 Apr 05, 2009 at 08:24 PM go for it Says:

Chabad can make any mitzvah into an event one to remember for at least the next 28 yrs. If this works for you, go for it and enjoy...

14

 Apr 05, 2009 at 08:22 PM Tunam Fish Says:

Reply to #4  
talmudist Says:

This Rabbi is full of Hot air. I guess this will realy bring him closer to the sun. Proportionally it will bring him closer like 2-1/2 centimeters.

I guess you don't understand Chabad or choose not too. Chabads job is to draw attention to mitzvos for those Yidden that are not aware.
I say to Chabad keep up the good work because no other kiruv group even comes close to Chabad.

15

 Apr 05, 2009 at 09:13 PM jewish mom Says:

Well since this happens only every 28 years and this is the last time that it will ever fall out on the 14 of nissan every body everywhere should Find at least 2-3 people anywhere who would not normally say this blessing and explane it to them so they can recite it I mean come on were not even allowed to say it only every 28years could you imagine the joy in shamayim when a frum jew says and he helps someone say it who's not? I think all jews accross the world have to realize that we are all responsible for each other it makes hakodesh barachu proud . Try and get up early everyone . Oh and my hat goes off to the chabad rabbi!

16

 Apr 05, 2009 at 09:12 PM PMO Says:

As someone who spent a great deal of time involved in kiruv, and even some with Chabad programs, this is totally cool! Sorry if I sound like a 12 year old, but I just wish I would have thought of it first! What an incredible way to publicize the mitzvoh and get people involved!

17

 Apr 05, 2009 at 09:25 PM Use Your Head Says:

Very cute publicity stunt, but nu, does it not say, "Lo bashamayim hee...."

18

 Apr 05, 2009 at 09:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Does this "Rabbi" have a right to get people to risk their lives to perform a mitzvah (?) which can easily be performed in the safety of their backyard?

19

 Apr 05, 2009 at 09:36 PM lubabitch fan Says:

Reply to #12  
moshe kapoyer Says:

He should just go to the moon much more fun.

ur not funny these people are trying to help these people do mitzvos and make them frum and since its a very rare event and wednesday is supposed to be cloudy its a very smart idea!

20

 Apr 05, 2009 at 09:35 PM Kiruv wanna be Says:

Reply to #16  
PMO Says:

As someone who spent a great deal of time involved in kiruv, and even some with Chabad programs, this is totally cool! Sorry if I sound like a 12 year old, but I just wish I would have thought of it first! What an incredible way to publicize the mitzvoh and get people involved!

what is kiruv? Kiruv is an intense love for Hashem from a sincere conviction, not to be popular in the eyes of secular jews or goyim. Look up the Rambam in Hilchos teshuvah.
Such garbage about kiruv out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!enough already

21

 Apr 05, 2009 at 09:31 PM cool masmid Says:

Reply to #4  
talmudist Says:

This Rabbi is full of Hot air. I guess this will realy bring him closer to the sun. Proportionally it will bring him closer like 2-1/2 centimeters.

I am just a little curious how you came to that measurement......

22

 Apr 05, 2009 at 10:39 PM lavdafka Says:

Whatever happed to Yaakov Bornstein of Chabad of the Mid-Hudson Valley/Poughkeepsie, Is he still there?

23

 Apr 05, 2009 at 10:58 PM אהבת ישראל please!! Says:

All you out there stop cursing out Chabad they are the ONLY real kiruv that goes to EVERY corner of the world (including india) why dont you pick yourself up and go to some hick town and try living like a Jew, never mind doing "kiruv" just keep in mind that when YOU get stuck in some hick town YOU WILL turn to Chabad for help and they WILL help you despite the fact that you are cursing them out in whatever they do.
and if they will make it in a backyard as you call it and invite some high official(in order to bring more traffic) you will also have some problem.

24

 Apr 06, 2009 at 06:13 AM rivka Says:

#1 i think you should call him and mention yor concerns, by posting it here he wont know it

25

 Apr 06, 2009 at 05:24 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #6  
Says:


I think its a sholeh if its ok to make the bruchu like this....even from a air plane its not 100 percent good

What kind of shaalah could there be? What could possibly be wrong with it?

26

 Apr 06, 2009 at 05:26 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #18  
Anonymous Says:

Does this "Rabbi" have a right to get people to risk their lives to perform a mitzvah (?) which can easily be performed in the safety of their backyard?

What risk? People have been going up in balloons for well over a century. It's at least as safe as driving a car.

27

 Apr 06, 2009 at 04:06 AM Yosele Pondrek Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

keep all your stupid comments to yourselves! Its a wonderful thing this rabbi is doing and he is also being mekarev the people and teaching them more about judiasm. good job Rabbi Hanoch Hecht!!

I think his mother wrote this comment!

28

 Apr 06, 2009 at 03:03 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #23  
אהבת ישראל please!! Says:

All you out there stop cursing out Chabad they are the ONLY real kiruv that goes to EVERY corner of the world (including india) why dont you pick yourself up and go to some hick town and try living like a Jew, never mind doing "kiruv" just keep in mind that when YOU get stuck in some hick town YOU WILL turn to Chabad for help and they WILL help you despite the fact that you are cursing them out in whatever they do.
and if they will make it in a backyard as you call it and invite some high official(in order to bring more traffic) you will also have some problem.

Just like McDonalds? They are a franchise providing opportunity to those nto gainfully employed. Yes, they are great at hachnosos orchiim, but as individuals not an organization.

29

 Apr 06, 2009 at 02:30 AM Anonymous Says:

The sinah to Lubavitch by the Litvishe community is identical to the sinah the brothers had to Yosef Hatzadik, and for similar reason.

30

 Apr 06, 2009 at 02:15 AM TheRagochoversAssistant Says:

While the next "Birchat Hachama" will occur in 28 years, the one that that will take place this Wednesday 5769 is unique in the fact that it also falls out "Erev Pesach". There will NOT be another "Birchas Hacahma" falling out "Erev Pesach" within the Jewish calendar which is supposed to end in year 6000.

31

 Apr 06, 2009 at 12:27 AM dan Says:

Here we go again...... all of you hater's, kep your two cents to yourself. If the rabbi wants to go on a hot air balloon why does it bother you? When you're dealing with secular jews, even some orthodox, getting people to show up at 6 am is a big challenge. so if gettig a balloon brings more jews to do such a rare mitzvah whats the problem.

32

 Apr 05, 2009 at 11:57 PM Elchonon Says:

Sorry to say, but the first story of birkas hachama I remember is of some rebbe / rav who couldent make the bracha due to clouds and hired a plane to take him up (this was I believe before ww2 where planes were risky and expensive)

Where does it say it must be on the ground ? its not a PR stunt, its one way to get jews more involved with mitzvos.. excuse me but the seder consists of doing "weird things" ki yishalach bincha so that your children will ask!

33

 Apr 05, 2009 at 11:35 PM chaim36 Says:

In these very trying times this is a complete waste of money. Give the money for the needy not attention seeking people.

34

 Apr 05, 2009 at 11:28 PM To 14 and all others Says:

I am not anyone official, just someone who is zoiche to be one Shliach in a tiny outpost. We are not a kiruv organization, never were and never will be. We are working on as the Rebbe's (and all the Rebbeim preceeding him till the heilige Baal Shem Tov) hands and feet to bring Moshiach through hafotzas maayonos haChassidus.
Yes, it takes us to hot air baloons and whatever else we may need to do on the way, but this is our agenda, not "kiruv" or adding another Jew to vote yahadut haTorah or Shas. The agenda is to get that one extra mitzvah that will tip the scales as the Rambam says. All of the gimmicks are to get the unafilliated Yidden to be a part of the grand scheme of the Aibishter since "v'Ruach Elokim merachefes- ze rucho shekl Moshiach- and bring the tachlis of brias hoilom to fruition.
Please don't compare us to anyone else, its a completely different inyan. For those wanting to learn more, see your local Shliach or Mashpia or any available Tomim who will tip you off as to what makes us tick and devote our entire lives to Shlichus.
Chag haPesach Kosher v'sameach with Moshiach NOW!

35

 Apr 05, 2009 at 11:15 PM Lakewood Masmid Says:

Amazing !!! Big Kidush Hashem !!! Rabbi Hecht keep up your heilige avoda

36

 Apr 06, 2009 at 06:56 AM cute gimmick, but is it really a way to go? Says:

It does not say how high they will ascend. If they don't go too high, as I suspect, they may not be above the clouds anyway, so what was gained?

It is a creative idea on his part, but not every stunt is in order. They could do it in a park or another way, I think he made a good try, but seems like too much of a gimmick, which brings questions in its wake.

And how many people can one of those balloons hold, also I think they cost a pretty penny, then there is also a potential sheila of taaruvos.

37

 Apr 05, 2009 at 11:55 PM chusid shoyta! Says:

that's what he is! the mitzva isn't bigger for getting closer or for the publicity stunt he trying to pull off.

38

 Apr 05, 2009 at 11:26 PM Bas Rivka Says:

Oh, I am so proud of the Hechts, They have such energy and they use it for the right purposes! Hatzlocho Rabbo! They do it entirely leshem shomayim and kiruv targets secular Jews!
Going on top of the clouds is to make sure you see the sun while otherwise you cannot say the brocho! Kol Hakovod!

39

 Apr 06, 2009 at 07:25 AM dallasyid Says:

No time to read all comments but first few question time logic and pesach schedule...just understand its being done for those that obviously don't clean or prepare for pesach let alone understand nuances of some of these comments. It is Chabad at its best simply thinking and doing anything possible to mekarev our brethern. Feel better mrs hot air ?

For the record these comments are like so predictable already. LOL soon someone will say Chabad made the sun lower so the balloons don't have to travel too much and that's not kosher.

40

 Apr 06, 2009 at 07:19 AM lazer Says:

#32please dont make up such stories. if true where can we verify. i know of one rebbe in the sixties dd this for kiddush levana so maybe your mixing up. but before WW2 was a fortune and money was scarce so...your comparison to the seder that beats them all

41

 Apr 06, 2009 at 07:51 AM moshe kapoyer Says:

Skydiving is much more fun

42

 Apr 06, 2009 at 07:47 AM manny Says:

Kulanu bnei ish echad anachnu. My precious family - all of you - please don't fight. Disagree all you want - but beAhava and leshem Shamayim. Even Yom Kippur is not mechaper for aveirot bein adam lechavero. Tayara kinderlech... no Abba wants to see his kinderlech fighting... We must all focus on being belev echad keish echad - and to even do that leShem Avinu SheBashamayim.

Chag Kasher VeSameach!

43

 Apr 06, 2009 at 08:21 AM bentzy Says:

#42..if cant take the haet get out of the kitchen. this is nit a kindergarten, we dont need a referee. thisis forum for free exchnce of opinions, as long its not against. torah.

44

 Apr 06, 2009 at 08:00 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #30  
TheRagochoversAssistant Says:

While the next "Birchat Hachama" will occur in 28 years, the one that that will take place this Wednesday 5769 is unique in the fact that it also falls out "Erev Pesach". There will NOT be another "Birchas Hacahma" falling out "Erev Pesach" within the Jewish calendar which is supposed to end in year 6000.

By the way, the next one is on Isru chag!

45

 Apr 06, 2009 at 09:17 AM chief doofis Says:

Birchat Hachama i snot a blessing on the Sun. It is a blessing of the Ribbono Shel Olam. It is the sam eblessing recited over various natural phenomena. There is no "mitzva" of Birkat Hachama per se. There is a mitzva to recite a blessing over many things.

Chabad is an organization which has earned a great deal of emnity amongst Jews. Aside from the Messianic heresy preached by some (but not all) of Chabad, the organization has made itself irrelevant to already frum people. To wit, the organization in Rhinebeck, aside from the obvious PR stunt of the balloon, is running two sedarim. Both are scheduled for 7:00 PM (their calendar shows that). I can understand starting the first seder at 7, although the time is not quite late enough, because that may prevent som epeople from driving to the seder (but not back home) on Yom Tov. What is worse, is the second seder at 7. That will cause people to travel on the FIRST DAY of Pesach, a d'oraysa, rather than on the second, which is d'rabbonon. Those who don't travel, will still be making kiddush for the second day, when it's still the first day. Most real Orthodox shuls specifically wait longer for Ma'ariv, so that s'fira is done on time, and that the two days of Yom Tov aren't conflicting with each other.

46

 Apr 06, 2009 at 09:01 AM yeapb Says:

Reply to #40  
lazer Says:

#32please dont make up such stories. if true where can we verify. i know of one rebbe in the sixties dd this for kiddush levana so maybe your mixing up. but before WW2 was a fortune and money was scarce so...your comparison to the seder that beats them all

The Bostoner Rebbe went up on a flight from Boston to New York I believe to make the brocho. Don't accuse people in such a hurry please.

47

 Apr 06, 2009 at 09:24 AM Anonymous Says:

I think this is a terrific idea. Bringing joy to performing mitzvos is great. However, going up in a hot air balloon is very expensive and is not for everyone. Depending where you live, there are lots of other ways to make the event extra special, such as going to a lake or beach to watch sunrise over the water, going to a mountain top or the top of a tall building, etc.

48

 Apr 06, 2009 at 09:29 AM PMO Says:

Reply to #34  
To 14 and all others Says:

I am not anyone official, just someone who is zoiche to be one Shliach in a tiny outpost. We are not a kiruv organization, never were and never will be. We are working on as the Rebbe's (and all the Rebbeim preceeding him till the heilige Baal Shem Tov) hands and feet to bring Moshiach through hafotzas maayonos haChassidus.
Yes, it takes us to hot air baloons and whatever else we may need to do on the way, but this is our agenda, not "kiruv" or adding another Jew to vote yahadut haTorah or Shas. The agenda is to get that one extra mitzvah that will tip the scales as the Rambam says. All of the gimmicks are to get the unafilliated Yidden to be a part of the grand scheme of the Aibishter since "v'Ruach Elokim merachefes- ze rucho shekl Moshiach- and bring the tachlis of brias hoilom to fruition.
Please don't compare us to anyone else, its a completely different inyan. For those wanting to learn more, see your local Shliach or Mashpia or any available Tomim who will tip you off as to what makes us tick and devote our entire lives to Shlichus.
Chag haPesach Kosher v'sameach with Moshiach NOW!

I apologize for defining all of Chabad as a kiruv organization. I realize that there are many purposes to Chabad. In my experience, with the Chabad Rabbonim I have worked with, kiruv was an enormous part of their personal mission. This may not be the case for everyone involved in Chabad and I should not have generalized.

However, you say "All of the gimmicks are to get the unafilliated Yidden to be a part of the grand scheme of the Aibishter..." - That sure sounds like kiruv to me! :-)

49

 Apr 06, 2009 at 10:17 AM igood Says:

Reply to #32  
Elchonon Says:

Sorry to say, but the first story of birkas hachama I remember is of some rebbe / rav who couldent make the bracha due to clouds and hired a plane to take him up (this was I believe before ww2 where planes were risky and expensive)

Where does it say it must be on the ground ? its not a PR stunt, its one way to get jews more involved with mitzvos.. excuse me but the seder consists of doing "weird things" ki yishalach bincha so that your children will ask!

Gut gézugt

50

 Apr 06, 2009 at 11:15 AM erev pessach Says:

can he burn chametz up there too?

51

 Apr 06, 2009 at 11:38 AM Chabad doesnt do 'Kiruv' Says:

Reply to #20  
Kiruv wanna be Says:

what is kiruv? Kiruv is an intense love for Hashem from a sincere conviction, not to be popular in the eyes of secular jews or goyim. Look up the Rambam in Hilchos teshuvah.
Such garbage about kiruv out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!enough already

Chabad doesn't use the term Kiruv, as explained in the words of the Lubavitcher Rebbe zt'l: "you're only mekarev what's far, and no Jew is ever far. Every one is the son/daughter of Avraham, Yitzchak, and Yaakov".

And about the balloon; don't worry, you'll get your chance to come up with a good idea before everyone else. Just be patient without spiting hatred around you.

52

 Apr 06, 2009 at 11:50 AM Perplexed by what you write Says:

Reply to #45  
chief doofis Says:

Birchat Hachama i snot a blessing on the Sun. It is a blessing of the Ribbono Shel Olam. It is the sam eblessing recited over various natural phenomena. There is no "mitzva" of Birkat Hachama per se. There is a mitzva to recite a blessing over many things.

Chabad is an organization which has earned a great deal of emnity amongst Jews. Aside from the Messianic heresy preached by some (but not all) of Chabad, the organization has made itself irrelevant to already frum people. To wit, the organization in Rhinebeck, aside from the obvious PR stunt of the balloon, is running two sedarim. Both are scheduled for 7:00 PM (their calendar shows that). I can understand starting the first seder at 7, although the time is not quite late enough, because that may prevent som epeople from driving to the seder (but not back home) on Yom Tov. What is worse, is the second seder at 7. That will cause people to travel on the FIRST DAY of Pesach, a d'oraysa, rather than on the second, which is d'rabbonon. Those who don't travel, will still be making kiddush for the second day, when it's still the first day. Most real Orthodox shuls specifically wait longer for Ma'ariv, so that s'fira is done on time, and that the two days of Yom Tov aren't conflicting with each other.

Don't have time to take care of all the garbage you write, but one specially uneducated comment of yours made me drop my coffee, you write "the organization has made itself irrelevant to already frum people.".

I ask you: isn't kiruv the responsibility of all klal israel? when a person dedicates himself to making yidden frum, isn't he relevant to already frum people?

(im sure it's clear that i'm writing things in a low-level-intellect, special for you).

And by the way, leaving on the side the 'kiruv' part of Chabad, theres Chassidus Chabad which attracts thousands of 'already frum people'.

It seems like you have lots of free time in your hands, so why don't you pay a visit to
http://www.chassidus.com/ and see how we're relevant to "already frum people"?

53

 Apr 06, 2009 at 12:35 PM joe Says:

As some who know rabbi hect i cant understand what the comotion is about just because it happens to be a chabadnik who comes up with the hot air ballon idea does he desrve to be bashed #2 every seder for not frum people in the whole world had a set time when in begeins and yes people will drive to the seder the same way they drive to shull on yom kipur but at least they are getting a tast of yidishkeit

54

 Apr 06, 2009 at 01:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

These people are really full of hot air

monsey you are right

55

 Apr 06, 2009 at 01:34 PM REDISH Says:

chabad in bournemouth england is doing the same,

56

 Apr 06, 2009 at 04:34 PM Anonymous Says:

How can I make a reservation to go up on the balloon. I am willing to sponsor the full cost of this trip but need to take my family of 5. Any idea on contact information

57

 Apr 06, 2009 at 06:13 PM chief doofis Says:

#52 You haven't answered why they are scheduling the sedarim the way they did.
How many young men and women who are students of higher Jewish learning, whether it be former Lakewood students, Brisk, Mir, Telz, Sanz, Satmar, Tora Vodaath, Chaim Berlin, Yeshiva University, Ner Israel, the full spectrum of Orthodox learning, get turned on to Chabad?
How many communities have picked up a daf yomi shiur through Chabad?
If I go to shul every morning, have a seder (in learning) every night, already keep kashrut and Taharat Hamishpacha, what does Chabad have to offer? A Shacharit after the z'man kriat shma, a mincha after Sh'kia, a class in Tanya, and a prayer for the continued life of a dead"messiah"!
I once fell in to a Chabad "beth Hamidrash". The Rav asked me ,"What do you think of my Bais Medrash"? I told him, "not much". "And why not?", he asked. "You don't have a set of Shas, no full Shulchan Aruch, no Tur, no Oruch Hashulchan, not even a Rav's Shulchan Aruch!"

As far as you r comment about kiruv being a universal resposnsibility for the frum world, you are right. I am involved in kiruv, and have been for a generation. Without hype, without a funny shaped menorah, without a false Messiah, without liquor, and without watering down halacha.

58

 Apr 06, 2009 at 08:18 PM :-) Says:

Reply to #57  
chief doofis Says:

#52 You haven't answered why they are scheduling the sedarim the way they did.
How many young men and women who are students of higher Jewish learning, whether it be former Lakewood students, Brisk, Mir, Telz, Sanz, Satmar, Tora Vodaath, Chaim Berlin, Yeshiva University, Ner Israel, the full spectrum of Orthodox learning, get turned on to Chabad?
How many communities have picked up a daf yomi shiur through Chabad?
If I go to shul every morning, have a seder (in learning) every night, already keep kashrut and Taharat Hamishpacha, what does Chabad have to offer? A Shacharit after the z'man kriat shma, a mincha after Sh'kia, a class in Tanya, and a prayer for the continued life of a dead"messiah"!
I once fell in to a Chabad "beth Hamidrash". The Rav asked me ,"What do you think of my Bais Medrash"? I told him, "not much". "And why not?", he asked. "You don't have a set of Shas, no full Shulchan Aruch, no Tur, no Oruch Hashulchan, not even a Rav's Shulchan Aruch!"

As far as you r comment about kiruv being a universal resposnsibility for the frum world, you are right. I am involved in kiruv, and have been for a generation. Without hype, without a funny shaped menorah, without a false Messiah, without liquor, and without watering down halacha.

I am sure everyone here is proud of you...........just please keep your life experiences to yourself, and maybe you should submit your story to "Touched by a story" to fill the next book

59

 Apr 06, 2009 at 07:54 PM chief doofis Says:

#53: So it's not so bad that people will drive to a seder, at least they will get a taste of yiddishkeit!

Have you lost your mind? The Conservative movement issued it's famous (or infamous) "t'shuva" on driving to shul on Shabbat, for the very same purpose. Yet, you laud Chabad, though I am sure you would condemn Conservative Judaism. I can have a seder at home, with an English Hagada supermarket bought matza, and a jar of Manishewitz grape juice. It won't be a "mehudardikke" seder, but it's a seder nevertheless. Driving a car is a definite issur. In the Rhinebeck case, if they scheduled the second seder AFTER tzeis hacochavim on Thursday night, at least the driving would "only" violate Rabbinic law, not Torah Law.

Even if you don't have a seder at all, at worst, you are nor performing a postive mitzva, by driving you are over a "lav"

60

 Apr 06, 2009 at 09:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #59  
chief doofis Says:

#53: So it's not so bad that people will drive to a seder, at least they will get a taste of yiddishkeit!

Have you lost your mind? The Conservative movement issued it's famous (or infamous) "t'shuva" on driving to shul on Shabbat, for the very same purpose. Yet, you laud Chabad, though I am sure you would condemn Conservative Judaism. I can have a seder at home, with an English Hagada supermarket bought matza, and a jar of Manishewitz grape juice. It won't be a "mehudardikke" seder, but it's a seder nevertheless. Driving a car is a definite issur. In the Rhinebeck case, if they scheduled the second seder AFTER tzeis hacochavim on Thursday night, at least the driving would "only" violate Rabbinic law, not Torah Law.

Even if you don't have a seder at all, at worst, you are nor performing a postive mitzva, by driving you are over a "lav"

So how can any "Orthodox" shull hold miyanim for Shabbos? Or Yom Kippur? Maybe some non-frum Yidden will drive to shul!

Your shaila is not on Chabad --- its on any shull which non - frum Yidden daven in. After all davening is a mitvah asei etc ----lefi shitoscho all Shulls should refuse entry to non-frum Yidden who drove to shul on shabbos or Yom Kippur.

So what do poskim pasken in such situations? Most Poskim pasken (including Reb Moshe) that as long as they are within wallking distance your allowed to invite them. Weather they drive is their cheshbon. If they are not in walking distance then its a problem to invite them. And thats what Chabad Houses do.

61

 Apr 06, 2009 at 08:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #57  
chief doofis Says:

#52 You haven't answered why they are scheduling the sedarim the way they did.
How many young men and women who are students of higher Jewish learning, whether it be former Lakewood students, Brisk, Mir, Telz, Sanz, Satmar, Tora Vodaath, Chaim Berlin, Yeshiva University, Ner Israel, the full spectrum of Orthodox learning, get turned on to Chabad?
How many communities have picked up a daf yomi shiur through Chabad?
If I go to shul every morning, have a seder (in learning) every night, already keep kashrut and Taharat Hamishpacha, what does Chabad have to offer? A Shacharit after the z'man kriat shma, a mincha after Sh'kia, a class in Tanya, and a prayer for the continued life of a dead"messiah"!
I once fell in to a Chabad "beth Hamidrash". The Rav asked me ,"What do you think of my Bais Medrash"? I told him, "not much". "And why not?", he asked. "You don't have a set of Shas, no full Shulchan Aruch, no Tur, no Oruch Hashulchan, not even a Rav's Shulchan Aruch!"

As far as you r comment about kiruv being a universal resposnsibility for the frum world, you are right. I am involved in kiruv, and have been for a generation. Without hype, without a funny shaped menorah, without a false Messiah, without liquor, and without watering down halacha.

"funny shaped menorah" Just happens to be Rambam's (as confirmed by his son R' Avrohom) and Rashi's opinion.... but because Chabad uses it, it becomes "funny shaped menorah"

So much for your "objectivity".

If any other kiruv group came up with a hot air baloon idea for birchat Hachama it would never be subjected to so much critisizm. But because its Chabad...its like "how dare they come up with original ideas" and like "becuse its not my idea it must be a stupid idea" etc etc etc ad nausium

62

 Apr 06, 2009 at 10:28 PM Anonymous Says:

sure, just check their site http://www.chabaddutchess.com/ and search for their phone number and give them a call.

63

 Apr 07, 2009 at 03:57 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #60  
Anonymous Says:

So how can any "Orthodox" shull hold miyanim for Shabbos? Or Yom Kippur? Maybe some non-frum Yidden will drive to shul!

Your shaila is not on Chabad --- its on any shull which non - frum Yidden daven in. After all davening is a mitvah asei etc ----lefi shitoscho all Shulls should refuse entry to non-frum Yidden who drove to shul on shabbos or Yom Kippur.

So what do poskim pasken in such situations? Most Poskim pasken (including Reb Moshe) that as long as they are within wallking distance your allowed to invite them. Weather they drive is their cheshbon. If they are not in walking distance then its a problem to invite them. And thats what Chabad Houses do.

YOU are wrong.

Davening with a minyan is NOT and never will be, an excuse to commit the capital crime of violating the Shabbos.

And, YES, all shuls SHOULD refuse entry to those who drove there.

The BS excuse that, "Well, if they are driving anyway, they may as well come here." is pure unadulterated BS.

The thought of, "Well, they will only drive a few weeks, then they will want to walk." is similarly BS.
I daven at a Chabad shul. Many drive every Shabbos to shul, and then back home and have been doing so for 22 years, . They believe, deep in their hearts, that Chabad says this is okay.
How dare they get aliyas?
These people are outright Mechallel Shabbls B'farhesya.
They are K'Ily Ovaid Avoda Zara

Oy, so Chabad says that they are not. They are like tinokim shenisbau.
That is BS too.

Maybe the first few weeks.

But, when they have been doing this for 22 years, and have been sat down with and have been told lovingly, that driving on Shabbos is a major Jewish violation, and that "You could stay in my house Friday night.... Just stop driving on Shabbos, it is a death-penalty crime." ...
and they reply, "Listen, I do not want to be religious. I never will be. I just like coming here to daven, because it is like my grandfather's shul. But, I do not believe that strongly, that I would give up driving on Shabbos."
These people who say that, and park right in front of the shul, ARE CERTAINLY NO TINOKIM SHEHISBAU.

They are certainly Mechallel Shabbos B'Farhesya, and are k'ilu oved kochovim.
It is forbidden to give them aliyas.
It is forbidden to count them in a minyan.

But even more, the fact that they are INVITED to come makes Chabad over on L'fnai Iver.

Most of those who drive outside of walking distance.

So, it is not "Lishitoso" it is to the shita of the Shulchan Aruch.

64

 Apr 07, 2009 at 03:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Tunam Fish Says:

I guess you don't understand Chabad or choose not too. Chabads job is to draw attention to mitzvos for those Yidden that are not aware.
I say to Chabad keep up the good work because no other kiruv group even comes close to Chabad.

You are correct. Many of us do not understand Chabad. Though we have tried and tried to.

65

 Apr 07, 2009 at 09:38 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #63  
Anonymous Says:

YOU are wrong.

Davening with a minyan is NOT and never will be, an excuse to commit the capital crime of violating the Shabbos.

And, YES, all shuls SHOULD refuse entry to those who drove there.

The BS excuse that, "Well, if they are driving anyway, they may as well come here." is pure unadulterated BS.

The thought of, "Well, they will only drive a few weeks, then they will want to walk." is similarly BS.
I daven at a Chabad shul. Many drive every Shabbos to shul, and then back home and have been doing so for 22 years, . They believe, deep in their hearts, that Chabad says this is okay.
How dare they get aliyas?
These people are outright Mechallel Shabbls B'farhesya.
They are K'Ily Ovaid Avoda Zara

Oy, so Chabad says that they are not. They are like tinokim shenisbau.
That is BS too.

Maybe the first few weeks.

But, when they have been doing this for 22 years, and have been sat down with and have been told lovingly, that driving on Shabbos is a major Jewish violation, and that "You could stay in my house Friday night.... Just stop driving on Shabbos, it is a death-penalty crime." ...
and they reply, "Listen, I do not want to be religious. I never will be. I just like coming here to daven, because it is like my grandfather's shul. But, I do not believe that strongly, that I would give up driving on Shabbos."
These people who say that, and park right in front of the shul, ARE CERTAINLY NO TINOKIM SHEHISBAU.

They are certainly Mechallel Shabbos B'Farhesya, and are k'ilu oved kochovim.
It is forbidden to give them aliyas.
It is forbidden to count them in a minyan.

But even more, the fact that they are INVITED to come makes Chabad over on L'fnai Iver.

Most of those who drive outside of walking distance.

So, it is not "Lishitoso" it is to the shita of the Shulchan Aruch.

I'm sorry, you have NOT researched this shaila in poskim. As I have written in breif the psak of R' Moshe Fainstein above that as long as they are within walking distance its permissable to invite them.

I don't know on what you base your 'psak' that they are "k'ilu oved kochovim" for going to shull instead of the beach. I don't know from where you get your 'psak' that after a few weeks of going to shul they are no longer tinokei shenishbu.

And always remember, before you render your 'psak', the harsh way you judge your fellow yidden in this world is the harsh way (ch"v) you will be judged in the world to come.

I would take back your words if I were you.

66

 Apr 08, 2009 at 04:10 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #63  
Anonymous Says:

YOU are wrong.

Davening with a minyan is NOT and never will be, an excuse to commit the capital crime of violating the Shabbos.

And, YES, all shuls SHOULD refuse entry to those who drove there.

The BS excuse that, "Well, if they are driving anyway, they may as well come here." is pure unadulterated BS.

The thought of, "Well, they will only drive a few weeks, then they will want to walk." is similarly BS.
I daven at a Chabad shul. Many drive every Shabbos to shul, and then back home and have been doing so for 22 years, . They believe, deep in their hearts, that Chabad says this is okay.
How dare they get aliyas?
These people are outright Mechallel Shabbls B'farhesya.
They are K'Ily Ovaid Avoda Zara

Oy, so Chabad says that they are not. They are like tinokim shenisbau.
That is BS too.

Maybe the first few weeks.

But, when they have been doing this for 22 years, and have been sat down with and have been told lovingly, that driving on Shabbos is a major Jewish violation, and that "You could stay in my house Friday night.... Just stop driving on Shabbos, it is a death-penalty crime." ...
and they reply, "Listen, I do not want to be religious. I never will be. I just like coming here to daven, because it is like my grandfather's shul. But, I do not believe that strongly, that I would give up driving on Shabbos."
These people who say that, and park right in front of the shul, ARE CERTAINLY NO TINOKIM SHEHISBAU.

They are certainly Mechallel Shabbos B'Farhesya, and are k'ilu oved kochovim.
It is forbidden to give them aliyas.
It is forbidden to count them in a minyan.

But even more, the fact that they are INVITED to come makes Chabad over on L'fnai Iver.

Most of those who drive outside of walking distance.

So, it is not "Lishitoso" it is to the shita of the Shulchan Aruch.

That "if they are driving anyway, they may as well come here" is not BS, it's simple logic. If instead of coming to shul they would stay home and not do any melochos, then you'd be right, it would be better to tell them to stay home. But you know very well that's not going to happen. If they don't come to shul they will drive somewhere else, or they will stay home and cook, turn on lights, smoke, work in the garden, or do other melochos, many de'oraiso. When they drive to shul they're doing a melocho of hav'oroh on the way there and back, but for as long as they're sitting in shul they're keeping shabbos. And being in a Torah atmosphere cannot help but have a lasting effect on them that will leave them better Jews. So what would you achieve by barring them from shul, or by denying them aliyos?

67

Sign-in to post a comment

Click here to sign-in.

Scroll Up
Advertisements:
Sell your scrap gold and broken jewelry and earn hard cash sell gold today!