New York – An El Al Airlines flight from New York to Israel was delayed by more than an hour after four Haredi Orthodox men refused to take their assigned seats next to women.
Subscribe to our Daily Roundup Email
The incident took place on Thursday night and was recounted in a Facebook post by one of the passengers on the flight, Khen Rotem.
Rotem, an Israeli rapper who goes by the moniker Sagol 59, said that one of the four haredi Orthodox men who was “particularly devout and ascetic” got on the plane with his eyes closed and led by the hand of one of the other men and remained that way throughout the flight.
The flight attendants, according to Rotem, worked to resolve the situation, though the haredi passengers would only speak to male attendants. One finally threatened: “If you don’t sit down, you can get off the plane now.”
Two women, one identified as an American in her 70s and the second a young Israeli woman, eventually agreed to move seats. Rotem noted that the women remained in economy class and did not receive an upgrade. He also said that other Orthodox passengers on the flight plane “expressed surprise and disgust” at the men’s behavior.
“While on the El Al plane they were dealing with matters of practical theology and personal faith versus the rights of the individual and civil order, 12 planes from other carriers jumped the line ahead of Flight 002,” Rotem noted.
El Al addressed the issue in a statement, that also was posted as a comment to Rotem’s Facebook post. “We apologize for any inconvenience caused. Any discrimination by passengers is absolutely forbidden. El Al flight attendants do everything that they can to provide service to a wide range of passengers and various requests and try to assist. All of this is done so that takeoff is on time and to take the passengers to their destination on schedule.”
One year ago, an Israeli court ruled that El Al cannot ask women to move seats to accommodate a man who does not want to sit next to a woman, in response to a lawsuit filed by a female Holocaust survivor in her 80s.
Renee Rabinowitz, 83, a retired lawyer who made aliyah more than a decade ago and had been visiting family in the United States, agreed to switch her seat in business class on a December 2015 flight from Newark, New Jersey, to Israel. A flight attendant offered Rabinowitz a “better seat” closer to first class. The flight attendant “treated me as if I was stupid,” she told The New York Times at the time the lawsuit was filed.
The judge in the case ruled that the airline must declare that it is forbidden for a crew member to ask a passenger to change seats at the request of another passenger based on gender. El Al agreed to tell its cabin staff in writing about the prohibition and to provide training on how to deal with such situations.
AlterG why do your people have to make a chilul Hashem?
why dont they buy assigned seats before they fly and if they fly individual they should fly first class . You can ask to be changed but you can not dictate where to sit. If you can not sit next to a women they stay home,
After reading stories like this one, it’s no wonder that Delta and the other foreign-flag carriers have taken a big chomp out of El Al’s market share. Such behavior would not be tolerated on a foreign-flag line. These four farfrumpteh wackos have the warped belief that they are entitled to set only next to men on an international airline. This can be achieved were they to buy two sets of business-class tickets. However, since they don’t want to pay for their chumrah, the next best choice seems to be to create a chilul HaShem. El Al employees appear to have bent over backwards to allow them to fly. The actions of these four pseudo-Jews give all shomer mitzvos a bad name. Let them paddle to their destination next time!
el al is ignorant. They when booking can ask do you prefer to sit next to a woman or man
These alt-left yidden think it’s ok to discriminate against women. Surely their professional resume can’t hold up to any of those women’s resume. Where is their tight sheitels now?
These 4 made a chillul Hashem that goes on and on – despite all their chumrah and tzadaikus.
All in the name of G-D,
these people are sick, I’m embarrassed to be Chareidi, I’m starting to understand why us Chareidim are made to feel unwelcome on Elal flights,
Sick sick sick
Forget to mention,
I once travelled with a world famous Rov, who was seated next to a female traveller, didn’t make a fuss at all, just kept himself to himself, looked into his Gemara the ENTIRE journey, not raising his eyes, unless on a call of nature
I say that right or wrong, lets work out a system for this. This is a disaster scenario.
meshuga
Those men are very lucky they weren’t flying on a U.S. airline, like Delta. Failure to obey a crew member’s instructions earns you a one-way ticket off the plane at the hands of a police officer.
Reb Moshe z’tl, counseled that it was acceptable for a Jewish man to sit next to a woman on a subway or bus so long as there was no intention to seek sexual pleasure from any incidental contact. But I guess these yidden are frumer than Reb Moshe so they can ignore his psak.
If they moved to bad for them.these men should get thrown of the plane period. And if I were those woman I would sue the airline
There is nothing wrong asking politely a passenger to change a seat if its a row up r down. people who book aisle or windows are entitled to their choosen seats.
You can not dictate the airline to move passengers around and if you can not sit 12 hours with your eyes closed and your hands on the tray then stay home or maybe go by boat.
Maybe if you weren’t squished in like sardines, and the seats weren’t so tiny that you end practically sitting in your seat mate’s lap, this wouldn’t be such a problem!
That’s it– I’m suing for discrimination. I always demand to be seated between two zaftig nekaivas and El Al never accommodates me! (Usually get stuck between two burly guys named Yoyli and ZalmanAron.)
Interesting how people with no jobs somehow magically find the cash for international travel.
Why are the men allowed to ask any other passenger to change a seat?Let the man ask for a change of HIS seat and not have to embarrass the female.If the person is so uncomfortable , pay more money for better accommodations or stay home.
I have been on other carriers and the so called “charedier than thou” men made the same chillul Hashem. I was really appalled and embarrassed. Take off was delayed, of course.
Until all naysayers are taken off the plane and charged for assault by the women sitting neighbor the airline won’t designate a section of seats for men only?
I’m a Chareidi woman and if I were seated next to a man (and I have been more than once)I’d just stay there and keep my arm off the shared arm rest.
and if they sat next to gays, then what?
Maybe these guys were perverts with Russian hands and Roman fingers
To #6 -Regarding Delta Airlines, it was reported several months ago, that some of their flight crews on the NY to Tel Aviv run, derided Orthodox passengers for the heck of it, and referred to Tel Aviv as “hell Aviv”. Also, they mistreated observant Jewish employees, and considered the Jews on that route, as their enemy. They even fired at least one Jewish employee, who was a long time flight attendant, for “being too too nice to the Jews on the Tel Aviv run”. As a result, several lawsuits are pending against Delta.There are other American carriers to take to EY, such as United and American. Regarding El Al, it is to blame for the perpetual problem, regarding the Hareidim. El Al could solve this problem overnight, by reserving specific areas of the plane for men only. It knows that many passengers are Hareidim, who do not wish to sit next to a woman. Therefore, El Al should be more accommodating during the ticketing process, vis-a-vis male seating only. Hence, by doing so, it would prevent these boarding problems, which inconvenience everyone on board the aircraft. This problem has been going on for years, and El Al has turned a deaf ear to such problems. Shame on El Al!!
A suggestion for EL AL why don’t they just have a very small area of the plane for men only, this would stop the craziness.
Men only seating is not new to El-Al.
I was flying to Yeshiva with El-Al a number of years ago and was placed in the men only section. This was a regular scheduled flight, not a charter.They took one back section of the economy and had a curtain to divide it from the ‘mixed seating’ section in front. Back then it was probably to block the TV as well, but there is no reason why nowadays they cant either turn off the TVs in back of seats for that section, or limit it to flight information only. (For those who are so frum that they can’t control themselves not to watch if they are not used to it. Or for Bochrim whos parents dont want them watching.)
There is no reason why they cant implement the same thing, with or without the dividing section.
Back in the heyday of flying El-Al, you could choose smoking or non-smoking section!
For the whole world becoming progressive and allowing anything, they are very conservative about it. If it were a liberal woman who did not want to sit next to a man, they would bend over backwards to accommodate her.
As a woman i would welcome an all female section on the plane. No pop-up minyanim near me, and it would smell better!
The only explanation I can see is that they seem so frum, but in fact they have such powerful yetzer-harahs, that they can’t trust themselves to live among and behave like normal people in the world.