New York – Read this report on Arutz Sheva titled Dangerous Youth in Bnei Brak and weep.
Subscribe to our Daily Roundup Email
Weep for these kids who have been mislead to believe that anything less than full day learning is shameful.
Weep for their parents who did not have the courage to buck community pressure and do what was right for their “average” sons years ago.
And weep for our charedi tzibur that gave the green light for many years now to kanoim and extremists who have quashed all efforts in Bnei Brak and many other communities to create alternate programs and recreational activities for healthy, normal, mainstream children who so desperately are in need of them.
Several years ago, I had the Ze’chus to be in the presence of Maran HoRav Ahron Leib Shteinman shlit”a, when he spoke at the Torah Umesorah Convention. Outside were dozens of kanoim, fiercely protesting his support of Nachal Charedi, (here are two columns that I wrote a while back about Nachal Charedi – Nachal Charedi #1 and Nachal Charedi #2), a wonderful program created for charedi boys who are not full-time learners.
Make no mistake about it. The ruined lives of these children, the tears of their parents, and the havoc these kids wreak on our kehilos are all on their hands.
My friends; Arutz Sheva got everything right but the title. The kids aren’t dangerous, they were just normal children driven to the streets by the dangerous kanoim who are destroying every facet of our kehilos.
BRAVO!!!!! It is about time we stand up to those thugs. Banish them from our community!! But I must say one thing the Dangerous Kanoim that we speak about is what is on the opposite sides of these mislead youths…. there really is no middle ground.
Our holy Torah is clear:
Now, just before the arrival of Moshiach, our nation and our land are in the hands of the Erev Rav, who appear to be upright leaders of our people, bearded or shaven, religious or secular, and their goal has NOTHING to do with Halacha, Eretz Yisrael, or even the welfare of the Jews.
They want and seek one thing: CONTROL. They simply want to rule over the Jews any way they can.
Learn about and oppose them!
May Hashem bless you and keep you strong, Rabbi Horowitz!
when you offer alternative lifestyles to a life of torah study you weaken the sense of its importance to the majority of people that can and do excell in it. the torah of bnai brak holds up the entire world! don’t tamper with it, rabbi horowitz!
yeshivos here need to wake up as well. this idea that everyone has to learn regardless of ability and not train our children that an education is important as the post war generation did has destroyed the current generation, something we are seeing with this recession. parents can no longer pay for their children in kolel and they have no skills to go and work. this creates shalom bayis issues and disention in the house. it effects tuition because more people have to subsidize those that cant pay causing stress in there homes. i am still waiting for yeshivos to become leaner and look inside themselves to see how they are destroying homes and have become the greatest impetus for aaliyah to yerushalayim.
Gr8 let’s hope for better days I’m not sure its juat the fault of the kanuim its in the fault of the parents as well they should just admire their son who wants to got get a job or a degree in something and not give a dam for the community the only ones who can force this through is the mosdes itself and their rabbis and community leaders I’m in!
Is it any different in America, every crazy new thing that starts in Isreal comes here shortly after. how many of our youth are prepared to support a family or really want to learn all day yet thwey are afraid to be different
This Article Is Wrong! The Nachal Chareidy Took Frum Children And Made Them For Goiem L”u! Even If R Aron Leib Shteinman Holds From It It Don’t Mean Its Kosher, Bucherem Eating Yom Kipur Is Acceptable?
Almost a century ago, American Orthodoxy created the (all) day school. There, you can get a passable secular education, and in SOME of them, a fairly good Torah education, as well. Take the concept, tweak it a bit, if you want, a little more Tora, a little less secular for some, a different ratio for others. Perhaps a little Nach or some of the less “Lomdischer” masichtaot for some kids. not everyone is designed to be a lawyer, and yet, if all you learn all day is Talmud, that’s what you become. The secular world has room for doctors, teachers, engineers, and accountants as well as for lawyers. There are also non scholastic fields. For the “frum” kid, there is no choice. Let’s not destroy our kids!
Brilliant. Finally an HONEST analysis of the problem. Although I don’t agree with #2 … this problem has existed here in the U.S. for a long time as well.
Like I said before, when did it become so “wrong” or “undesirable” for a man to go out and make a living? When did it be come such a disgrace to spend a couple of years as an apprentice in a trade in order to start a business? My grandfather (he grew up in WB) opened a butcher shop in the Bronx. What was so terrible? He made a beautiful living, spent free time learning, and raised a family. By today’s standards, he would be considered undesirable and unworthy of a decent shidduch! My other grandfather worked on the docks, unloading and delivering produce from the ships. He worked hard for his family. Again, he would be considered an “undesirable” today. How shallow and pathetic we have become when it comes to these things.
I am proud to be a professional who spends most of his free time learning with his friends and family. I am very proud that H” gave me the ability to build a life for myself and my family. I’m also glad I found a shidduch before my successes made me so undesirable.
From Rabbi E.E.Dessler:
The Lithuanian Rashei Yeshivah, on the other hand, set as their main objective to educate Gedolei Torah, discouraging all contact with the intellectual world outside the yeshiva. They realized that the only way to achieve this was to concentrate all the energies of their students exclusively on Torah learning [and not to allow any alternative respectful goals.] They were well aware of the price they had to pay for this because they knew that many yeshivah students were not able to deal with this extreme lifestyle and would [and in fact did] leave religious observance. They tried as best they could to help those who could not remain in the yeshiva as bnei Torah.
Our own fault. The girls only want learning boys.
in my opinion, the need for a alternative for those kids are essential however, there is a need for these crazy kanoim to send out a message that this is not the optimal way of life for all bacurim. there are some kids that have the ability of being in a yeshivah envoiroment and learn all day but they need a bit more of encouragment, and if they will get the the impression that going to the nachal is 100% acceptable they will rather take the easier way out.
there has to be a few idiots (and I call them idiots because of the way they deliver their message) who say that its not the first choice for a frum bachur so that the ones that do not necessarely have the need to drop out of yeshivah with just a little bit of more effort know that there is some opposition to this idea.
again, that does not excuse those kanoim of protesting the way they do, but maybe we have to find some other way to let the kids know that (liturature or a drushe etc.). if the idea of a bucher going out to work or so is known to be a second choice there would have been a chance that some of the kids who did leave the yeshivah because of the hardships they had there that couldve been solved easily with a little bit of work from staff, they might have grown up to be big dayanim or talmidei chachamim and the world will now be without them…..
what a misfortune…
As long as from the age of 13 and on in EY there is not a bit of secular education, this problem will increase exponentially. The fact is that most 13-18 years old boys cannot learn Gemara all day. When they can’t hack it, they become apathetic, depressed ,feel worthless and get into trouble. A generation of sarcastic apathetic know nothing youth are spawning, when we could be having industrious and ambitious young men. It takes no talent to throw every boy into the same cookie cutter. It takes talent to determine what what each boy is best suited to do in life and treat them as individuals. Let there be choice! Chanoch l’naar kfi darcho!
Come on Yanky! Great read but go all the way and call it like it is. Instead of calling them kanoim and extremists, let’s call them what they are – Taliban with yarmulkas.
First the folks who need the mussar others are offering here are not on the net so . . . .
The problem is noit so much what the Kani message is because at its core a kanoi is looking for an intense uncomprimising level of observance. What is lacking is a lack of balance. A kanoi, a real one is not acting out of anger, or exhibit other negative behaivior. Rather based on Yiras Shamayim will act as conscience of the community championing what is right in the face of general laxity or indiffrence.
These subtle diffrences make the difference between Kanim and fanatics.
Since when is it a stira to be a gadol and work?Look in the gemara.All the amoiraim woked for a living.Regular yeshivas have to teach kids basic halochos of running a home and have their bochurim get jobs and become proper b’nei torah
And maybe you should also cry on the official split that most of the gedolei yisroel in a few occasions, officially announced against the reform members and maskilim and about 100 years later the same thing was repeated with the neloggen [and even status qua], (which eventually saved klal yisroel from a ruchnius disaster) that cost am yisroel thousands of lost souls, many went totally off the derech after those actions were announced, and were even assimilated after the split, being pushed out of klal yisroel by the leading gedolim of that time in Europe.
The gedolei yisroel has chosen to sacrifice some rotten apples in the garden, in order to save all of us!
can someone please explain to me what’s the problem with working & supporting your family? learning can be done on lunch breaks & after work & even b/4 work if you wake up on time. if everyone learns, who will support you? that is why there is such a shidduch crises. everyone is looking for money. how can in-laws support a learning bochur if they themselves don’t have a job. it is not a crime to be self sufficient! I think that there is a small minority who should be learning all day. most of the people in yeshivas learning all day don’t really want to be there. they are only there because they will be threatened if they try to earn a living. what’s the point if they are not enjoying the learning?
In the US, there are yeshivos that have agreements with the local Universities (Ner Israel in Baltimore has agreements with Loyola U and Johns Hopkins). We learn in the yeshiva during the day, go to college at night. The U accepts the “humanities” credits from the Yeshiva. Guys get semicha and BA, MA, PhD, CPA, etc. from the University.
Since 1975 (when I was graduated from the Yeshiva and University), Baltimore’s Jewish community has grown immensely, in great part due to the Yeshiva. Some guys stayed for kollel. Many others stayed in town and got very good jobs. This is how to build a community.
I have a friend in PA who started a yeshiva. He made an agreement with the local Technical College. The guys go to the college to become electricians, plumbers, and so on. NOT EVERYONE SHOULD BE IN YESHIVA FOREVER. ANother great way to build the Jewish community.
Hey guys lets not get all caught up in all the details, & forget the big picture. which happens so so many times…. Yes we all need a SOLID jewish backround, be it yeshivitch, chassidish or what ever, but not every one is made to sit and learn for 8-10 hours a day, some of the wonderful children just cant hack it, and I dont care what type of backround they have or family life they come from —- Parents, mechanchim, & so-on get it thru your heads this is a fact…… & Hashem help us for those who dont understand this ( no need to go into details)
PIRKEI AVOS – Torah without Work…
They are called the 7 shepherds.. Explain please what david hamelech was doing when he found shmuel hanavi.
Sorry, you that learn all day are more guilty then us that work. One that works is chayav to learn “perek echad shacharis, perek echad arvis” while one whom learns is taken to task for being bitul 1 minute (and your blogging?!?!?)
Trust me, its the “holy” frauds sitting in yeshivos that preach their hollier than though additude (you will only find this in the litvishe world) that scare people off from judaism.
Who are you to decide what one’s derech in life is ? “ein kemach, ein torah” your torah is completely batul if you preach such hate to others.. your nothing short of a apikores.
jankel jumping on the band wagon just to put an article
Boo Hoo
The kanoim are scaring everybody. I do not buy it.
The mainstream charedi leadership is extremely conservative. I do not believe for a moment that it would buckle under pressure from the kanoim. People with weak spines and faint hearts do not make inro the ranks of gedolim and especially manhigim.
I am wondering whether they have a “shomrim” type organization in Bnei-Brak to control the crime. A wonderful organization like that can not only help stop the vandalism, but can work as a liasion with the police and therapists etc. to get these kids the help they need.
Frum yidden were proud self sustaining entrepenours, shop keepers, peddlers allways proud to earn an honest living welfare was for the pathetic.
Frum Yidden lived in a relativly drug free society, lived in peace with each other and harmony.
Today with the indoctrination of full time “learning” with all of the “Tzedakah” and Charity services our society is crumbling because our leaders have yanked out one of the pillars that hold up the world.
“AVODAH”
Our forefathers were Sheppards and Agriculturists and Merchants. RAMBAM was a doctor. The Chofetz Chiam was a merchant.
To all of the girls who only wanted to marry a “learner only ” and be on child support.
To all of the boys that wanted to be a “learner only”and live a life of luxury in Hermoney.
To all of the future Roshei Yeshivos, Rebbeim and Gedolim in training Hatzlochoh Rabbah may Hashem Yisborach continue to assist us in assisting you.
To all of the freeloaders The Party Is Over! ..Go out and be productive as well as you are reproductive.
Anonymous u are making decisions for all yiddishe girls!At the end of the day the right thing t do is learn.Bochrim that cant fine….but why should we girls have to settle for second best?
Blame it on the Bais Yaakov High School & Seminary teachers that inculcate (read that brainwash) our daughters that a “long time learner” is the utopian choice!
Blame it on the Roshei Yeshiva that only care about the PR of their Yeshiva having the largest Kolel
Blame it on the parents that play “follow the leader”, and don’t teach real values to their children. They know that it is wrong for their sons to be spending only 2 hours out of 10 per day learning, but that is what everyone is doing, so we’ll do the same
Shame on the boys/girls for not being truthful to themselves, and living a lie.
IMAGINE – if only the real Bnei Torah stayed in Kolel, those true Bnei Torah (who are masmidim and are accomplishing goals) would be able to be supported in comfort and not live in poverty. That is what Hashem wants – not the wholesale mess we are in now.
But it’s all nebich wishful thinking – alas!
because it’s “Olam Golem”
Hilchos Talmud Torah: anyone ever learn it?
One who decides to live on tzedaka so he can be a “masmid” makes a chilul Hashem and extinguishes the light of the Torah.
Not my words, the Rambam and the mechaber.
The Remo says it’s mutar only if the khal needs him. Do the kehillos of Bnei Brak need 100,000 “chachomim”?
Sorry Rabbi Yaakov Horowitz has got it wrong. I respect his opinions, got some very practical advice from his tapes and cd’s, but on this he missed the boat. The problem is US, you and me and everyone else who has kids on the shidduchim “meat” market.
Let’s me honest to ourselves. Shadchan calls up, I got a great bochur for your girl. He learned in yeshiva – -, at age 18 went to school at night, works in manhattan as a para-legal, minyan 3 times daily, shiur nightly, not TV, sunday leans in shul for 4 hours, never did drugs, girls, alcohol, etc. How many of us would jump to get such a boy for our daughters? 5%? 10%?
We created this monster and we have to clean it up. The kannoim are sickos, mostly child molesters, sex perverts who we all can’t stand. But they can’t exist withour our apathy and quiet agreement. We are the problem and if we don’t start being honest with ourselves, it will only get worse.
I have sent my kids to more modern schools. They are frum and self-supporting accept the one that got snookered by his rebbes and now thinks his life would be meaningless if he did not learn full time.
We have always had the choice and no my kids found lovely shiduchim but we are not the typical. It pays to have money. The shalom bayis is better.
Even if what yankel says may have some truth to it, he knows nothing about these youth in bnei brak and just assumes that they are a result of this problem in order to be able to write something.
There is reason he was let go from his school in monsey. Yankel, stop blogging all day and rejoin reality, please!
As I pointed out yesterday, this very problem is alive and well in the American modern orthodox community. I have been working with these kids for 15 years.The problems are common: anger, rejection, low self-esteem and in some cases dysfunctional families. Lets stop pointing fingers at other communities and see what’s happening in our own backyards.
While I agree that learning all day is not meant for everyone and the kollel system is about to hit a very well deserved crisis, these shababnikim and kanoim are not really part of the kollel system. They are the products of dysfunctional families who are on the fringes of the community.
Can someone analyze the percentage of kids with secular education who turn out punks, before blaming the yeshive system.
It’s a very sad statement on frum Jewish life today. How will this generation of “learners” support their children in the same lifestyle? It is a question that needs to be discussed and addressed.
yes bravo, we need more and more articles and measures such as this. takeh, we have much to weep about not only in this sphere, the house of cards that was built by teaching that learning full time is the way and parents will support is falling. Why is it the in the previous generations the gedolim knew that there were 24 hours in a day and found the time to learn and make a parnosah and actually many ehrlichen yidden did the same. today, nebach we weep for the extremes that this generation and the next is excersing and it is leading to unfortunate things.
Don’t start blaming chassidim, i work with tons of yeshivish people, most have 4/5
couples living very comfortably in lakewood or israel while the parents work lto the bones to support. when they talk about a chiduch first question is support. lakewood and yeshivish is where this practice started. i guess now a days no one would zich meshadech with our uvos since they all had a profession
I wonder with whom this coming generation of sitters will marry, since none have money to support, maybe they will want the grandparents to continue working f/the grandchildren. by the way my family is full of talmidei chachamim who learn and work B”H