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Brooklyn, NY - Ohel Denies Report That It Will Oppose Bill to Allow Victims in Old Cases to Name Abusers; Jewish Star Stands By Its Story

Published on: April 26, 2009 07:26 PM
Last updated on: April 26, 2009 10:28 PM
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David Mandel CEO Of OhelBrooklyn, NY - The Jewish social service organization Ohel has decided it will oppose legislation that would allow victims of childhood sexual abuse currently beyond the statute of limitations to bring their cases to court. Agudath Israel of America and Torah Umesorah, its affiliated educational arm have announced their opposition to the open-window provision under consideration in Albany.

Ohel CEO David Mandel declined to confirm Ohel’s position, which was described to The Jewish Star by two reliable and well-informed sources.

“It is simply not a matter of a yes or no issue of supporting the Markey bill or the Lopez bill as one can be supportive of major portions of legislation without supporting it in its entirety, and at the same time remain true to their convictions,” Mandel said.

Mandel was referring to legislation sponsored by Assemblywoman Marge Markey (D-Queens) that would extend the civil statute of limitations by five years as well as open a year-long window to bring civil cases that currently are beyond the statute. A competing bill sponsored by Assemblyman Vito Lopez (D-Brooklyn) would extend the civil statute of limitations by two years but does not include the yearlong window.

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In a statement released Tuesday, Agudath Israel of America and Torah Umesorah, the National Society for Hebrew Day Schools, indicated that they would “have no objection to legislation designed to give victims of abuse greater recourse against perpetrators.”

However, Agudah and Torah Umesorah “vigorously oppose” legislation that would do away with the statute of limitations, even temporarily for a year, since that “could subject schools and other vital institutions to ancient claims and capricious litigation, and place their very existence in severe jeopardy.”

Agudah acknowledges a conflict of interest related to a lawsuit against Yeshiva Torah Temimah in Brooklyn, and Yehuda Kolko, a longtime rebbe there. The suit lists an Agudah-owned summer camp for boys, Camp Agudah, Inc., as a defendant. The suit was filed in Brooklyn Federal Court in 2006. It alleges that Kolko molested David Framowitz, identified in the suit as John Doe No. 1, while he attended Camp Agudah in the summer between his seventh and eighth grade years.

“It’s not anything that was ever hidden,” Rabbi Dovid Zwiebel, Agudath Israel’s executive vice president, explained.”

“The camp is the same name. Notwithstanding that this group of rabbonim who sat on this question for the last number of weeks is among the most senior and respected rabbonim and roshei yeshiva, when you get to that level, chances are you’re going to be affiliated with institutions that operate programs that young people participate in. It’s impossible to imagine [that] a question of this nature should not be considered by the leaders of the community simply because they are affiliated with institutions.”

Rabbi Zwiebel added: “If we’re sinister, we should surely do a much better job of covering our tracks.”

Agudath Israel’s position is a general one meant to apply across the nation, according to Rabbi Zwiebel. Practically speaking, however, Agudah’s position puts it in opposition to the Child Victims Act bill, legislation sponsored by Assemblywoman Markey. Instead, Agudah will direct lobbying efforts to support the Lopez bill. It does not have the open-window provision leading some critics to refer to is as “The Hide the Predator Act.”

Marci Hamilton, a Yeshiva University law professor and author of Justice Denied: What America Must Do to Protect Its Children, blasted Agudah’s position, which she described as “indifferent to the safety of children.” Similar legislation passed in California and Delaware led to the identification of 360 previously unknown sexual predators, she said.
“Without the window, the predators remain in the shadows so that they can groom more children for abuse,” Hamilton explained. “A stand against the window is a stand for the predators.”

Michael Lesher, an attorney who represents a number of victims of childhood abuse, criticized Ohel.

“If Ohel really cares about children then it really ought to care about their freedom to seek justice when they need it,” he said, noting, “If they [Ohel] have nothing to hide,” then they shouldn’t be in “direct opposition to the bill.”

The legislation has garnered a complicated response from elsewhere in the Jewish community. The United Jewish Organization of Williamsburg - closely tied to the United Talmudical Academy, which faces a $5 million dollar lawsuit for allegedly harboring a sexual predator - has also publicly objected to the window. Joel Engelman, the plaintiff in that suit, is also beyond the statute of limitations.

The Orthodox Union has not taken a public position on either bill. At a rally in Albany earlier this week the representatives of a number of Jewish organizations joined Christian groups to push for the Markey legislation.

And Agudah’s position has drawn criticism from prominent members of the Jewish community, as well.

Rabbi Yosef Blau, mashgiach ruchani (spiritual guidance counselor) of Yeshiva University’s Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary (RIETS) and an outspoken activist against sexual abuse inside the Orthodox community, said that “the old system does not work” and the only way to fix it is “a communal responsibility to bite the bullet.”

“This is the only way that institutions will take responsibility and abusers will not be given the opportunity to move from one place to another,” Rabbi Blau asserted. “Institutions that have been completely negligent should be sued.”

Shmuly Yanklowitz, founder of the Orthodox social justice group Uri L’Tzedek, was equally adamant.

“Halacha does not have a statute of limitations,” Yanklowitz maintained. “What is the fear of organizations of allowing the justice system to work? If they have been taking responsibility for their educators and religious leaders then there should be no threat to their organization’s financial stability.”

In a letter distributed on April 22nd, Assemblyman Dov Hikind, whose campaign to end sexual abuse inside the Orthodox community helped bring the issue of sexual abuse to the forefront, asked Agudah to reassess its position and work out a compromise.

“Achieving justice for the victims need not come about as a result of the financial demise of our greatest institutions,” Hikind wrote, “but neither can we forsake those who have already sacrificed far too much.”

**UPDATE** 10:30 PM Ohel has sent the below PR after we reprinted the article from the Jewish Star.

The recently published article written by The Jewish Star and published online by various media outlets is false.

At no time in the conversation with the reporter was any statement made that OHEL was opposing any legislation – and nor by any other source of authority.

On an issue that is so important, and is being understandably followed by so many - it is wholly irresponsible and unprofessional to publish a piece that is devoid of truth.

Sexual abuse is a heinous act and drives passionate emotions especially given the nature of victims – children and the most vulnerable amongst us.  OHEL has been at the forefront, working exhaustively in driving awareness, education, protecting our children and providing support services to victims.

We must resist the all-too-easy answers, and untruthful headlines, that while grabbing attention - can turn us into victimizers.

The Jewish Star got it wrong.
OHEL will provide its own written position on this issue.

**UPDATE** 11:30 PM Jewish Star firmly stands behind Its story. in a revised version to the story the Star printed below.

The Star stands by its online report that two reliable sources characterized Ohel’s position as opposed to the Markey bill.



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Read Comments (91)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Apr 26, 2009 at 06:33 PM Anonymous Says:

kinda seems like all those that are opposing have something to lose , thats for sure, y are are they so afraid
if they would have taken care of it years ago there wouldnt be anything to oppose

2

 Apr 26, 2009 at 07:16 PM Anonymous Says:

In the spirit of President Obama let us say Chatanu and repent. It's time for a change from top to bottom.

3

 Apr 26, 2009 at 07:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

kinda seems like all those that are opposing have something to lose , thats for sure, y are are they so afraid
if they would have taken care of it years ago there wouldnt be anything to oppose

When u say years ago u meant 150 years ago u think peadophiles started 50 years ago? this is going on for sages s0 u going to start prosecute cases from then comeon u got to put a stop somewhere

4

 Apr 26, 2009 at 07:20 PM noway Says:

I will never ever attend anymore any Ohel sponsored events or concerts

5

 Apr 26, 2009 at 07:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
noway Says:

I will never ever attend anymore any Ohel sponsored events or concerts

That's ridiculous. How can you simply disregard all the good Ohel does on account of a misjudgement, however serious, in one arena?

6

 Apr 26, 2009 at 07:25 PM honestlyfrum Says:

Of course they do. They don't want to be on the line for enabling Mondrowitz. Any organization that is opposing this bill should be ashamed of themselves and cut off by the kahal.

7

 Apr 26, 2009 at 07:27 PM Anonymous Says:

If I were a betting man, I'd put money down that there was political pressure from the Agudah?

8

 Apr 26, 2009 at 07:27 PM mayer Says:

sad david should resign i agree boycott ohel

9

 Apr 26, 2009 at 07:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Ohel has a long history of claiming they do what's in the best interest of children, when in actuality they do what's in the best interest of Ohel. They run scared of ACS, and apparently are also running scared of the powers that be within the frum community.
An organization that has young caseworkers, many barely out of college, most without social work degrees, and few who stay on after getting married, thus giving no consistency to their clients, having to be the faces for unavailable supervisors that make critical decisions for parents and children whom they've barely met, is hardly qualified to do what's in the best interest for our most helpless members of society. They (Ohel) are far more concerned about dotting every "i" and crossing every "t" so they can pass audits performed by bureaucracies that sit up in Albany and come up with useless, insipid rules, once again ignoring that clients are human beings and do not conform to one-size-fits-all mandates.
Ohel should certainly know that the sexually abused grow up to become the sexual abusers, and buckling to community pressure is the antithesis of what a responsible social services organization should be doing.
I guess I shouldn't have expected any more than that from Ohel.

10

 Apr 26, 2009 at 07:30 PM bar daas Says:

the main reason why heimishe mosdos should fight against the window bill, is because of fifty precent f accusations could never be proved that it happened, and mst of the time the lawsuit is a fantasy by the boy that went off the derech and wants to blame someone for his misfortune in life or his hefkeros, or is it the result of a sick or depressed parent. therefore a window would give extra opportunity fr such a case to come forward.
ashreichem agudath yisrel ashreichem ohel who both are guided with a true daas torah.

11

 Apr 26, 2009 at 07:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

That's ridiculous. How can you simply disregard all the good Ohel does on account of a misjudgement, however serious, in one arena?

The good Ohel has done over the years includes employing Doktor Mondrowitz, most prolific frum molester ever, and sending dozens of juveniles to his yeshiva in Lakewood and to his private practice on 60th Street in BP. In short they are sh****ng in the pants about being sued by every victim of Mondrowitz who hasn't yet commited suicide.

12

 Apr 26, 2009 at 07:37 PM Jack Says:

Unfortunately, the orthodox community is once again hiding behind the veil of daas torah and various other trumped up halachic opinions. "lo Taamod Al dam reacha" does not apply to mosdos, it applies to the children many who are now adults who have been punished by the silence and acceptance to prolonged sexual and mental abuse within the orthodox community. It is the Streit's saga magnified one hundred fold and it is about time we allowed Judaism to promote kedushah instead of chillul. Kedoshim Tih'yu is not a parsha but an ideology according to Rashi that should present when dealing with sexual perversion.

13

 Apr 26, 2009 at 07:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Here's what the compromise should be:

1-Extend the statute by 5 years;

2-Include the window, but make the law such that only individuals should be held personally liable, not the entire institution; for ex. "Principal Ploni", but not the yeshiva; nor can the principal be allowed to drag in the yeshiva to pay for his legal defense; and

3-Most importantly, the new legislation should make it specifically actionable for anyone to cover up the crime or fail to report it. Thus, a principal who knowingly allowed a pervert to continue to teach would be held strictly liable.

Otherwise, what's to stop people from making false allegations, just bec. they see the yeshiva as a "deep pocket"? If enough people do so, this can literally destroy our yeshiva system. Also, how is it fair to sue a school when the individuals involved are no longer even part of the administration?

14

 Apr 26, 2009 at 07:54 PM moshe Says:

I'll remember this terrible decision next time they come looking for a donation.

15

 Apr 26, 2009 at 07:54 PM here is ho w to straighten out ohel Says:

one since mandel and co they are so concerned about being sued for their coverups and run around telling people that if they close where will all the kids they help goto i propose the following . let the board be replaced by people approved by a fesh group of rabbis that have had no affiliation with ohel and work with the governmnet to bring these new pwoplw aboard

let no director ( mandel 330K ) be allowed to make more then 150K and that should also include any jewish group incl chai lifeline scvolar 300K

we need to get back to the work of helping children and nor getting rich of children who need our help

16

 Apr 26, 2009 at 08:35 PM Sherree Says:

Firstly let us give Hakoros Hatov to VIN for keeping this issue in the forefront and not allowing it to be buried and forgotten. Thank you for keeping this discussion alive, it is just so very important!!!

Next, as far as OHEL is concerned, it is in their best interest to say nothing and do nothing. Making any comment in favor of the Agudah's position is opening themselves up to the wrath of G-d as well as the wrath of every and any victim of Monsterowitz and other molesters. They are so guilty for sending Kolko's victims for "therapy" to Monsterowitz they should keep a low profile and just shut up. If they are lucky and don't stir the kettle, maybe no one will go after them. And they are guilty for other forms of misjudgment not only the Monsterowitz fiasco. Someone sent me info on another horrific case of child abuse where a child was taken away from the mother due to the total mishandling of Ohel; and the father was the abuser.

The people who run Ohel are only human and they made mistakes, huge ones and they probably realize that they did. They are not fools, and I hope they don't prove me wrong by throwing their support into the Agudah's camp. That would probably be the biggest mistake and the worst mistake they could probably make. Understandably they can't support the bill because they would be inviting law suits. But as I said the best thing they could do right now is keep a low profile and say nothing. They should neither support nor oppose.

17

 Apr 26, 2009 at 08:29 PM chaim Says:

what a chilul hashem,i guess we are not much better than the catholiv church

18

 Apr 26, 2009 at 08:36 PM Anonymous Says:

I have a hard time understanding this. Agudah and Torah Umesorah are organizations that involve thousands of members, including a huge constituency of the legislators who will ultimately vote on this bill. These entities have the clout to sway the legislators by virtue of the representation of these politicians. Whether I agree with their positions or not, they had a need and right to express them.

Understanding Ohel is a bit tougher. It is an agency that has a sizable constituency and clientele of children, as well as mentally ill adults, and other adults who are mandated for treatment there (and not too happy that they must have treatment). The political position on this issue, especially because of the direct interest in the matter being vulnerable, does not carry much weight. Making this statement in public sounds quite self-centered, and whether “Daas Torah” was involved or not might not matter. It walks like a duck.

Commenter #10 made claim that a large percentage of the lawsuits will be by boys who left the derech. I doubt that. But it has been documented that many of those who left the derech have abuse histories.

Commenter #9 made a thoroughly inaccurate statement, “Ohel should certainly know that the sexually abused grow up to become the sexual abusers.” That is a cruel and vicious statement that is absolutely inaccurate. It is true that a great percentage of abusers have been victims, but this commenter has turned the statistical relationship upside down. To accuse the victim that he is doomed to be an abuser is abusive in itself. In fact, the research indicates that is true for only a small percentage of victims. How dare you! Ohel does have this one right.

19

 Apr 26, 2009 at 08:35 PM esther Says:

would any of us say that there should be a statute of limitations involving child molester catholic priests?

20

 Apr 26, 2009 at 08:18 PM PMO Says:

Reply to #10  
bar daas Says:

the main reason why heimishe mosdos should fight against the window bill, is because of fifty precent f accusations could never be proved that it happened, and mst of the time the lawsuit is a fantasy by the boy that went off the derech and wants to blame someone for his misfortune in life or his hefkeros, or is it the result of a sick or depressed parent. therefore a window would give extra opportunity fr such a case to come forward.
ashreichem agudath yisrel ashreichem ohel who both are guided with a true daas torah.

And here is why you are so unbelievably wrong.

Nothing stops me today from coming forward to say so-and-so molest me. I can't sue for damages... but I can surely say it. I can go to the media and stand in front of camera and proclaim that Mr so-and-so molested me over and over again as a child. I can destroy anyone's reputation at any time I want to. So if my motivation is to just get even with a rebbe I didn't like... I would have done it already.

False accusations of direct abuse (ie. the abuser comes forward to claim the abuse) are incredibly rare that the number is insignificant. Indirect claims (divorcing parents claiming the other abused the child, etc) do happen much more often.

One of the biggest problems that we have is that scum like you assume that every child who went off the derech cannot be believed. Many times, as was the case recently in Lakewood, the abuse is the reason WHY the child went off the derech in the first place. A child who has been stripped of his dignity and self-respect is easily drawn to drugs and alcohol as way to not feel the incredible shame and guilt. Many times this leads to suicide (as happened recently).

I can only assume that people who think that all children who have gone off the derech can't be believed are people who participated in the abuse of these children. What a great cover that is for the beis din! Abuse kids who are going off the derech and once they are completely off, nobody will believe them. I also believe that anyone still claiming that "false accusations" will be rampant are trying to build a defense for themselves in case their victims come forward. There is no other logical explanation. I sincerely hope that every person who gets caught, and every person who protected them somehow ends up in prison for the rest of their lives. Once these "old" cases come out, the more recent victims will come forward too and the statute will still stand. These rapist pigs and those who protected them will get no sympathy from me. However I will daven every day for their family and the families that they helped destroy.

21

 Apr 26, 2009 at 08:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

Here's what the compromise should be:

1-Extend the statute by 5 years;

2-Include the window, but make the law such that only individuals should be held personally liable, not the entire institution; for ex. "Principal Ploni", but not the yeshiva; nor can the principal be allowed to drag in the yeshiva to pay for his legal defense; and

3-Most importantly, the new legislation should make it specifically actionable for anyone to cover up the crime or fail to report it. Thus, a principal who knowingly allowed a pervert to continue to teach would be held strictly liable.

Otherwise, what's to stop people from making false allegations, just bec. they see the yeshiva as a "deep pocket"? If enough people do so, this can literally destroy our yeshiva system. Also, how is it fair to sue a school when the individuals involved are no longer even part of the administration?

Do you think that R. Aharon Shechter, the Novaminsker,R. Yisroel Belsky, R. Shmuel Kaminetzky, and the rest of the various Gedolim don't know of a lot of stuff that has gone on and unfortunately did not reaxct properly. There is a problem here beyond the lawsuits. The whole doctrine of "Daas Torah", Kavod Hatorah, and Emunas Chachamim has been strangled, stepped on, and essentially destroyed. How can we have faith and trust in our Gedolim when they have been found to be so fallible in so basic an area of yidishkeit. The whole concept of Gedolei Torah having a higher level of insight that is close to Ruach Hakodesh by virtue of their immersion in Torah Study has been shattered, by virtue of the manner in which this problem has been and continues to be handled. I feel like tearing Kria over this as I feel like everything I believed in as a yeshiva bochur, is false. My only comfort is that having known Gedolim from yesteryear, I can disassociate this generations leaders from those of the last. Gedolim, if you are listening, step up to the plate and take responsibility. That will go a long way in restoring your credibility which right now is zero.

22

 Apr 26, 2009 at 08:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
here is ho w to straighten out ohel Says:

one since mandel and co they are so concerned about being sued for their coverups and run around telling people that if they close where will all the kids they help goto i propose the following . let the board be replaced by people approved by a fesh group of rabbis that have had no affiliation with ohel and work with the governmnet to bring these new pwoplw aboard

let no director ( mandel 330K ) be allowed to make more then 150K and that should also include any jewish group incl chai lifeline scvolar 300K

we need to get back to the work of helping children and nor getting rich of children who need our help

it's interesting you bring the wages up. I was browsing charitynavigator.org a few months back and was totally floored at the wages some top people at these non profits are making. no wonder they need to raise so much money. good money for a ceo is expected, but $300K+ is totally over the top.

23

 Apr 26, 2009 at 08:57 PM I smell smoke Says:

Wrong is wrong regardless of their supposed record of Chesed.
Is it really Chesed when, to my knowledge every service they provide is done on a fee for service basis and Government pays every expense PLUS?

24

 Apr 26, 2009 at 08:52 PM PMO Says:

Reply to #22  
Anonymous Says:

it's interesting you bring the wages up. I was browsing charitynavigator.org a few months back and was totally floored at the wages some top people at these non profits are making. no wonder they need to raise so much money. good money for a ceo is expected, but $300K+ is totally over the top.

Unfortunately, in too many instances, these "charities" are really big businesses designed to make people rich. I know a charity when I see it. If a director makes $300k/yr.... it is not a charity. There is a soup kitchen here where the person who runs it can barely afford food for his own family... but when the kitchen comes up short on money, he reaches into his own pocket and his family does without. THAT is charity and I daven for him and his family every single day.

25

 Apr 26, 2009 at 09:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

That's ridiculous. How can you simply disregard all the good Ohel does on account of a misjudgement, however serious, in one arena?

Because it is not the first time for Ohel and it probably won't be the last. David Mandel should resign. The good there is, is done by those on the lower echelons who actually deal with the "consumers" (the government's word not mine). Not by the top highly paid administrators.

26

 Apr 26, 2009 at 09:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Ohel clearly has a vested interest in preventing lawsuits wherein it could be named as a defendant, eg the Mondrowitz fiasco (he was not a doctor, nor a psychologist, there was no due diligence). As for a salary of over $300k, most non-profits in this area do not seem to have CEOs make that kind of money.

27

 Apr 26, 2009 at 09:06 PM Tuna Fish Says:

There is one fare that the Rabonim have, that many more cases will be come public. This will result in in an abundance of law suits that can Chas Veshalom banrupt the yeshivah world. In todays economy it has to be put into consideration.
Believe it or not I'm an advocate for the children first. We have to protect the children 100 percent. protecting children also means that a yeshiva with reasonable tuition exist.

28

 Apr 26, 2009 at 09:38 PM Anonymous Says:

If you want a quality CEO you have to pay for one. Mr.Mandel is a caring , dedicated individual who deals with top government officials to get the best for his clientele. I know first hand how he cares for the individuals in Ohel, and we should respect his judgement.

29

 Apr 26, 2009 at 09:42 PM salaries for executives Says:

Reply to #26  
Anonymous Says:

Ohel clearly has a vested interest in preventing lawsuits wherein it could be named as a defendant, eg the Mondrowitz fiasco (he was not a doctor, nor a psychologist, there was no due diligence). As for a salary of over $300k, most non-profits in this area do not seem to have CEOs make that kind of money.

most non profits today are in that area

research hamaspik what the director makes
chai lifeline where over 6 people make over 300k with the group
ohel which needs to be reorganized
hasc where a director was removed for embezzelment
all have an issue where rabbanim say dont critisize because they help and what will be if they close

30

 Apr 26, 2009 at 09:46 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

That's ridiculous. How can you simply disregard all the good Ohel does on account of a misjudgement, however serious, in one arena?

I have unfortantly been in the position of having to work with Ohel, without going into detail I will tell you that they operate as a completely secular business. No yiddishe ideals or standards. Cold, hard, fiercly protective of it's ownership of all the frum cases and fucused on the bottom line.

Nothing wrong with running a business but it is a shandeh that they masquerade as a tzedaka and get away with it.

Before anyone shoots off their mouth with a reply speak to any rav or communal figure that has dealt with them on specific cases.

31

 Apr 26, 2009 at 10:10 PM Sherree Says:

Reply to #18  
Anonymous Says:

I have a hard time understanding this. Agudah and Torah Umesorah are organizations that involve thousands of members, including a huge constituency of the legislators who will ultimately vote on this bill. These entities have the clout to sway the legislators by virtue of the representation of these politicians. Whether I agree with their positions or not, they had a need and right to express them.

Understanding Ohel is a bit tougher. It is an agency that has a sizable constituency and clientele of children, as well as mentally ill adults, and other adults who are mandated for treatment there (and not too happy that they must have treatment). The political position on this issue, especially because of the direct interest in the matter being vulnerable, does not carry much weight. Making this statement in public sounds quite self-centered, and whether “Daas Torah” was involved or not might not matter. It walks like a duck.

Commenter #10 made claim that a large percentage of the lawsuits will be by boys who left the derech. I doubt that. But it has been documented that many of those who left the derech have abuse histories.

Commenter #9 made a thoroughly inaccurate statement, “Ohel should certainly know that the sexually abused grow up to become the sexual abusers.” That is a cruel and vicious statement that is absolutely inaccurate. It is true that a great percentage of abusers have been victims, but this commenter has turned the statistical relationship upside down. To accuse the victim that he is doomed to be an abuser is abusive in itself. In fact, the research indicates that is true for only a small percentage of victims. How dare you! Ohel does have this one right.

Just to point out one thing as you said, the Agudah has thousands of members yet thy did not poll any of those members for an opinion on this decision, did they? Yet they claim to represent thousands upon thousands of Yiddin. How? How can they represent us, if they didn't ask us?

32

 Apr 26, 2009 at 10:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #29  
salaries for executives Says:

most non profits today are in that area

research hamaspik what the director makes
chai lifeline where over 6 people make over 300k with the group
ohel which needs to be reorganized
hasc where a director was removed for embezzelment
all have an issue where rabbanim say dont critisize because they help and what will be if they close

If our nonprofits didn't pay well, they would not attract the kind of quality workers we need them to employ. If a fundraiser is raising 5-10 million dollars a yearn do you really think a guiy with that kind of talent will stick around for less than 300k?? I can assure you he would leave for a non-frum nonprofit where we will make what he's worth. If we value what these organizations do for our community, we need to understand that the only way they will retain the top talent is by paying well.

33

 Apr 26, 2009 at 10:13 PM A Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

Ohel has a long history of claiming they do what's in the best interest of children, when in actuality they do what's in the best interest of Ohel. They run scared of ACS, and apparently are also running scared of the powers that be within the frum community.
An organization that has young caseworkers, many barely out of college, most without social work degrees, and few who stay on after getting married, thus giving no consistency to their clients, having to be the faces for unavailable supervisors that make critical decisions for parents and children whom they've barely met, is hardly qualified to do what's in the best interest for our most helpless members of society. They (Ohel) are far more concerned about dotting every "i" and crossing every "t" so they can pass audits performed by bureaucracies that sit up in Albany and come up with useless, insipid rules, once again ignoring that clients are human beings and do not conform to one-size-fits-all mandates.
Ohel should certainly know that the sexually abused grow up to become the sexual abusers, and buckling to community pressure is the antithesis of what a responsible social services organization should be doing.
I guess I shouldn't have expected any more than that from Ohel.

The only issue I take with your comments is that not all sexually abused children grow up to become sexual abusers. Some, yes, but your statement makes it seem like all do and that's just not right.

34

 Apr 26, 2009 at 10:12 PM satmer Says:

I'm sick and tired already of this issue been around for a year and no progress yet bills and billd and cases over cases every week but y don't we see it moving on a speed that the molesters speed from child to another just to make sure they can have more fun all I can say is anyone who is trying to limit this bills in order to punish those sick molesters and their companies should it be satmer UJO or the aguda will burn in hell for that and I wish them to have their family member molested very soon

35

 Apr 26, 2009 at 10:19 PM A Says:

Reply to #14  
moshe Says:

I'll remember this terrible decision next time they come looking for a donation.

I've already crossed them off my list, I'm not about to help them with their defense fund.

36

 Apr 26, 2009 at 10:39 PM Anonymous Says:

#14 you have crossed them off your list? these poor souls need our money to make their lives a bit easier and hopefully keep them safe within jewish housing with medical care. who will care for them if not us?

37

 Apr 26, 2009 at 11:22 PM kupshtik Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

Here's what the compromise should be:

1-Extend the statute by 5 years;

2-Include the window, but make the law such that only individuals should be held personally liable, not the entire institution; for ex. "Principal Ploni", but not the yeshiva; nor can the principal be allowed to drag in the yeshiva to pay for his legal defense; and

3-Most importantly, the new legislation should make it specifically actionable for anyone to cover up the crime or fail to report it. Thus, a principal who knowingly allowed a pervert to continue to teach would be held strictly liable.

Otherwise, what's to stop people from making false allegations, just bec. they see the yeshiva as a "deep pocket"? If enough people do so, this can literally destroy our yeshiva system. Also, how is it fair to sue a school when the individuals involved are no longer even part of the administration?

13 is 100% right lets all back him

38

 Apr 26, 2009 at 11:18 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:

Reply to #21  
Anonymous Says:

Do you think that R. Aharon Shechter, the Novaminsker,R. Yisroel Belsky, R. Shmuel Kaminetzky, and the rest of the various Gedolim don't know of a lot of stuff that has gone on and unfortunately did not reaxct properly. There is a problem here beyond the lawsuits. The whole doctrine of "Daas Torah", Kavod Hatorah, and Emunas Chachamim has been strangled, stepped on, and essentially destroyed. How can we have faith and trust in our Gedolim when they have been found to be so fallible in so basic an area of yidishkeit. The whole concept of Gedolei Torah having a higher level of insight that is close to Ruach Hakodesh by virtue of their immersion in Torah Study has been shattered, by virtue of the manner in which this problem has been and continues to be handled. I feel like tearing Kria over this as I feel like everything I believed in as a yeshiva bochur, is false. My only comfort is that having known Gedolim from yesteryear, I can disassociate this generations leaders from those of the last. Gedolim, if you are listening, step up to the plate and take responsibility. That will go a long way in restoring your credibility which right now is zero.

You know, personal experience goes a long way, here, and quite frankly and with all due respect to the great sages of our generation, some of whom their children you mention, these head in the sand beards - and I am speaking from personal experience - take their egos way beyond their capabilities. Many yeshivos seek out so-called "daas toireh" and these alleged leaders - who know nothing about many of the chidren and cases they are speaking - pasken shailos on these children with the same regard as answering some hausfrau who dropped a chicken wing in the milchig sink how to kasher it. DISGRACEFUL.

You heard it here folks. Boruch Dayan Emes. DAAS TOIREH IS DEAD.

That the Agudah could oppose this bill, Zwiebel should wake up and realize that the nice guy I met 20 years ago sold out. This guy is a disgrace to the race. The CA and DE legislation make it crystal clear that not only do these so called ancient cases never make it - but HUNDREDS of pervs get caught. I wouldn't be surprised if these guys know who they are protecting and refuse to out them. SICK.

The Agudah is meakeiv the geulah with this nazi-like stance. Protect the superior race of yeshivos. That's what they say. Protect our moisdois. HAH! Protect the Almighty Dollar is their truth. These guys shuckle fine and good, but when it comes to a dollar they'll sell all the victims of rape and torture that the Kolkos and Mondrowitzs destroyed.

The Agudah is a sham. Sherer is rolling in his grave.

All we ask is that the children be put first. And the Agudah says no. Well, let them call me for money again. And when I tell the shik yingle who calls that the Agudah protects rapists from prosecution, maybe I'll get lucky and they'll take me off their call list.

39

 Apr 26, 2009 at 11:00 PM Avrohom Abba Says:

My friend and his wife are both doctors. They already have children. They went to Ohel to adopt a child who was sponsored at a Shabbos in their shul. They called Ohel, got interviewed, went to meetings, attended sessions with professionals, and were rejected because they didn't have the time to go to another 15 meetings. Ohel was very careful with that side of the law. Now i read this nonsense and see how they were not careful with much more important things, like the mental and physical safety of their charges.
When Ohel was started it was great for the first few years, then it became so big, they went out of control. Look what they did to a great idea and a great organization. I am hurt and shocked by all these terrible stories, even if only one fourth of them are true.

40

 Apr 26, 2009 at 11:26 PM Anonymous Says:

wow a real eye opener!

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6707

Name Title Compensation % of Expenses
Abraham Cohen Executive Director (The person identified as holding the highest position of management, and therefore who would normally be responsible for carrying out the mission of the charity and leading the organization on a day-to-day basis.) $151,912 0.97%
Other Salaries of Note
Sam Zaks Community Development Director (Using information reported on an organization's most recent Form 990, we include as compensation an individual's salary, cash bonuses, and expense accounts and other allowances. We do not include contributions to benefit plans or compensation deferred to a future date.) $398,683 2.56%
Stephen Scholar Executive Vice President (Using information reported on an organization's most recent Form 990, we include as compensation an individual's salary, cash bonuses, and expense accounts and other allowances. We do not include contributions to benefit plans or compensation deferred to a future date.) $217,609 1.39%


41

 Apr 27, 2009 at 02:30 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
Anonymous Says:

#14 you have crossed them off your list? these poor souls need our money to make their lives a bit easier and hopefully keep them safe within jewish housing with medical care. who will care for them if not us?

The government pays these organizations very well for the work that they do. The tzedaka money raised is the icing on the cake and what a huge cake it is.

42

 Apr 27, 2009 at 01:01 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #29  
salaries for executives Says:

most non profits today are in that area

research hamaspik what the director makes
chai lifeline where over 6 people make over 300k with the group
ohel which needs to be reorganized
hasc where a director was removed for embezzelment
all have an issue where rabbanim say dont critisize because they help and what will be if they close

they dont help and didnt help my friend or her siblings from an abusive home, therefore most of them are lost. the rabbanim should take off their glasses

43

 Apr 27, 2009 at 12:48 AM former cl employee Says:

for those of you bashing executives for their high salaries... you only point out the $alary. you don't mention though that 85.6 percent of the budget goes toward program expenses (charitynavigator.org). you also don't mention the hours, pressures & commitment....

44

 Apr 27, 2009 at 12:44 AM Anonymous Says:

he's not allowing the bill because ohel helps cover up for peds, I personally know of one and they are afraid all sexually abused children will help blow the fuse

45

 Apr 26, 2009 at 11:51 PM Hit them in the pocket Says:

Instead of us grouching and being exasperated at how low they can stoop, we can teach them a lesson instead, by hitting them where it hurts most, in their pocket.

Ohel and Aguda depend on public contributions. Everyone who realizes, that because of their position on abuse, they are all guilty and covering their own back at the expense of the children - we should all stop donating to them and also encourage all philanthropists who give to Aguda and to Ohel to stop giving (unless they want to fund abuse).

46

 Apr 27, 2009 at 06:23 AM Anonymous Says:

Meyer Fertig, Editor of the Jewish Star, has a sterling reputation. He has decades of experience in the business, and has been at the helm of the Jewish Star for a couple of years. It would be very uncharacteristic of him to get a story of this magnitude wrong. He checks his facts, and sends quotes to people before going to press in many cases. All of his stories over the past years have gone to print with not a single story being refuted in any way.

Let's not be naive.

There is a lot of money at stake. Ohel stands to lose a lot of money if they are successfully sued for their association with the likes of Mondrowitz--no due diligence was done, he was promoted by Ohel, he had no degree, etc., but was called "Doctor," basic stuff that even a novice would know to check on before affiliating with someone.

As for very high salaries, there are people who are dedicated to non-profits who do not expect nor receive salaries in the ranges mentioned in these posts. When boards of organizations are stacked by the CEO, to be 'yes' men, this is what results. Whether any CEO for a non-profit should make over $300K is a complicated question, but clearly the CEO has potentially a vested interest that goes beyond the welfare of the children and families when he is making that kind of money.

47

 Apr 27, 2009 at 06:14 AM Anonymous Says:

"The Agudah is a sham. Sherer is rolling in his grave."

That is a quote worth repeating. It's the feeling I've had about them for years. The organization has fallen so far from the gem it once was. Yes, they do still do "some" good on a daily basis. But, their stance on the issue of ridding molesters in our Yeshiva system is horrifying.

48

 Apr 27, 2009 at 05:34 AM SUPPORTERS OF MARKEY BILL Says:

FACTS ON PROPOSED MARKEY BILL

A- the markey bill has been submitted to the nys assembly 3 times aguda ,ohel tora umesora,did not object.The bill was not able to pass the ny state senate

B - the senate is now controlled by the democrats and has a good chance of passing

c-the bill is supported by evrey district attorney and chidren agency in new york state

D- supported by the rabbinical alliance of america,the o.u and most leading rabbonim and educators



E-agudas israeal which has conflict of issues on thi mattar as well as ohel are afraid of the implications of the bill due to years of coverup of those predidators






F- yeshivas like tora vodas,bais yakov real community based yeshivas have no worries they have done the right thing,tora temimah which is a private bussiness set up as a non-profit has real issues

49

 Apr 27, 2009 at 05:41 AM SUPPORTERS OF MARKEY BILL Says:

CONTINUED

THERE IS A LOPEZ BILL WHICH IS ABILL SPONSORED BY THE CATHOLIC LEAGUE AND IS NOT HAVE THE ABILTY TO PASS BECAUSE THE CITY OF NY WILL FIGHT IT

A-DEMAND A IRS INVESTIGATION INTO TORA TEMIMAH,AGUDA OHEL LETS SEE THEI BOOKS

B-BOYCOTT AGUDA ANDS OHELS DINNERS AND DEMAND THE RESIGNATION OF THE BOARD

C- ALL PAST VICTIMS SHOULD NOT FEAR FILING CHARGES IMMEDIEDATLY TO FALL WITHIN THE STATUE

50

 Apr 27, 2009 at 06:36 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #21  
Anonymous Says:

Do you think that R. Aharon Shechter, the Novaminsker,R. Yisroel Belsky, R. Shmuel Kaminetzky, and the rest of the various Gedolim don't know of a lot of stuff that has gone on and unfortunately did not reaxct properly. There is a problem here beyond the lawsuits. The whole doctrine of "Daas Torah", Kavod Hatorah, and Emunas Chachamim has been strangled, stepped on, and essentially destroyed. How can we have faith and trust in our Gedolim when they have been found to be so fallible in so basic an area of yidishkeit. The whole concept of Gedolei Torah having a higher level of insight that is close to Ruach Hakodesh by virtue of their immersion in Torah Study has been shattered, by virtue of the manner in which this problem has been and continues to be handled. I feel like tearing Kria over this as I feel like everything I believed in as a yeshiva bochur, is false. My only comfort is that having known Gedolim from yesteryear, I can disassociate this generations leaders from those of the last. Gedolim, if you are listening, step up to the plate and take responsibility. That will go a long way in restoring your credibility which right now is zero.

after naming these specific gedolim and blasting them why dont you tell us your name and we'll come blast you, literally.

51

 Apr 27, 2009 at 06:55 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #43  
former cl employee Says:

for those of you bashing executives for their high salaries... you only point out the $alary. you don't mention though that 85.6 percent of the budget goes toward program expenses (charitynavigator.org). you also don't mention the hours, pressures & commitment....

I think it's a myth that you have to pay 200 or 300,000 a year to get a quality executive director or fundraising director for a non-profit. It's the same myth that led to multi-gazillion dollar salaries in the private sector for CEOs of major corporations and the obscene bonuses at companies getting federal bailout money that the bonuses were necessary for retention. The only way to have confidence that the salaries and benefits are appropriate is to have a truly independant board of directors, that they do appropriate searches to fill positions and appropriate surveys of salaries in comparable non-profit agencies and programs, etc. when setting compensation.

52

 Apr 27, 2009 at 06:51 AM Is it Just ME??? Says:

Reply to #31  
Sherree Says:

Just to point out one thing as you said, the Agudah has thousands of members yet thy did not poll any of those members for an opinion on this decision, did they? Yet they claim to represent thousands upon thousands of Yiddin. How? How can they represent us, if they didn't ask us?

Or has anyone else noticed that the update from Ohel does not publish their stand on this highly sensitive issue? They just say that the article is not true. Where are their guts to say where they stand??

53

 Apr 27, 2009 at 06:48 AM You make a very strong point Says:

Reply to #31  
Sherree Says:

Just to point out one thing as you said, the Agudah has thousands of members yet thy did not poll any of those members for an opinion on this decision, did they? Yet they claim to represent thousands upon thousands of Yiddin. How? How can they represent us, if they didn't ask us?

When all the paid members of Agudah hit them where it counts, ie in the wallet and stop paying, Agudah will have to listen, until then,, what is the CEO of Agudah making???

54

 Apr 27, 2009 at 07:33 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #32  
Anonymous Says:

If our nonprofits didn't pay well, they would not attract the kind of quality workers we need them to employ. If a fundraiser is raising 5-10 million dollars a yearn do you really think a guiy with that kind of talent will stick around for less than 300k?? I can assure you he would leave for a non-frum nonprofit where we will make what he's worth. If we value what these organizations do for our community, we need to understand that the only way they will retain the top talent is by paying well.

Lehefech. When you pay big bucks you get big shmucks.

No torah-true mosod was ever started by a person looking for money.

My kid's rabbeim make less than a fifth of the salary of the Ohel CEO and do it because they love torah and love teaching torah.

One of the greatest mechanchim I ever knew lived utter poverty and refues to even accept a chanukah or pesach gift. He said the job of a teacher is to give and if he starts to take he is no longer doing his job 100%.

If you need 300K in order to be a ba'al chesed you aren't a ba'al chesed. Maybe he was when he started but ....

55

 Apr 27, 2009 at 07:17 AM Anonymous Says:

Has anyone else noticed this?

Have you ever noticed that the people who deny the Holocaust are always people who would not be bothered if it happened again today, c"v, and would probably come up with a twisted justification for it and would love to be part of it? (On the murdering end, that is.)

I'll bet the same is true of all the losers who write about the accusations being false and just a way for a kid who left torah and yiddishkeit to blame someone else.

I'll bet these are all people who at best are not bothered that these things happen and most probably salivate at the idea of doing it themselves and want to continue to live in a society that continues to tolerate molestation.

56

 Apr 27, 2009 at 07:10 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
bar daas Says:

the main reason why heimishe mosdos should fight against the window bill, is because of fifty precent f accusations could never be proved that it happened, and mst of the time the lawsuit is a fantasy by the boy that went off the derech and wants to blame someone for his misfortune in life or his hefkeros, or is it the result of a sick or depressed parent. therefore a window would give extra opportunity fr such a case to come forward.
ashreichem agudath yisrel ashreichem ohel who both are guided with a true daas torah.

Since you mention a statistic ('half') please cite the source for it.

Otherwise, please go slither back into the slime under the rock.

Thank you.

57

 Apr 27, 2009 at 07:03 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #41  
Anonymous Says:

The government pays these organizations very well for the work that they do. The tzedaka money raised is the icing on the cake and what a huge cake it is.

fyi: not ALL organizations get govt funding. some are ONLY through private & corporate donors

58

 Apr 27, 2009 at 07:48 AM Anonymous Says:

Did I read correctly?

Did Zweibel just find a long-winded and transparent way to say the roshai yeshiva are too big to be considered nogaiyah badover in issues that invlve the financail well being of the very institutions that they either own or that pay their salaries

59

 Apr 27, 2009 at 08:45 AM Anonymous Says:

Why is everyone putting full responsibility on Agudah and Ohel? Why didn't the parents of the abused children turn the predators in to the police?
I don't see that all rabbonim discouraged this. Our Rabbi ( a very chushive Chassidishe rabbi) was very supportive of our decision to do so and that was ten years ago.
Parents, quit whining and do your job. Abused children, your parents failed you.
If you want to sue them go ahead.

60

 Apr 27, 2009 at 09:23 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #59  
Anonymous Says:

Why is everyone putting full responsibility on Agudah and Ohel? Why didn't the parents of the abused children turn the predators in to the police?
I don't see that all rabbonim discouraged this. Our Rabbi ( a very chushive Chassidishe rabbi) was very supportive of our decision to do so and that was ten years ago.
Parents, quit whining and do your job. Abused children, your parents failed you.
If you want to sue them go ahead.

Please do a better job of re-writing history.

If you want to lie and deny that most rabbonim and roshai yeshivos supported reporting to the police you might as well open the door wide enough to let us all the way into your fantasy world. Claim there were no abusers because the rabbonim and roshai yeshiva dealt with the first cases of it properly so pedophiles learned it didn't pay to pick on yeshiva kids.

And you know because you were flying overhead with Santa Claus and used your x-ray vision to see them pick up the Batphone to summon help.

61

 Apr 27, 2009 at 09:37 AM Sherree Says:

Understand the real threat of the Agudah's position: Shelly Silver, The Speaker of the Assembly, is very much influenced by the Agudah. And what the Agudah wants, the Agudah gets. When the Agudah wants a bill buried it gets buried. If the Agudah does not want a bill to hit the Assembly floor for a vote, our Speaker of the Assembly will see to it that it does not make it to the floor. Have I made this clear to everyone? That is the power of the Agudah!!!!! And that is why WE must fight the Agudah on this particular issue. Write to Chaim Dovid Zwiebel at dzwiebel@agudathisrael.org , Shelly Silver at: Speaker@assembly.state.ny.us and David Mandel at: info@ohelfamily.org (note how they no longer list their directors and officers on their website), and while you're at it include Charles Hynes in the same email as David since Chuck and he are now partners in Kol Ttzedek. Please tell them of your outrage and if you can muster the courage and if you would feel safe doing so, with the anonymity of the internet, name your abuser.

And if anyone has any info on Kol Tzedek please let the rest of us know who these hidden members are. If this is going to be a committee of substance that is truly going to sweep the neighborhood clean of molesters, let's find out who is really on the committee and make sure they are not more of the same old same old. For instance why wasn't Marci Hamilton asked to join? I am sure if she were approached she would have either jumped at the chance or arranged for a member of her staff to join.

If we were to start the Wall of Shame and name the abusers to the Agudah, Ohel, Shelly Silver, Charles Hynes and Kol Tzedek would Ohel be considered a mandatory reporting agency since they are a licensed social work and/or foster care agency through the state? AND whether the victim chose to be anonymous through the internet or not, but yet still answered all the questions that was put forth to them, would that be enough to start and investigation and remove a pedophile from the vicinity of children? AND wouldn't it be a major impact of ALL recipients of these emails if more than one or two victims named the same pedophile?

Wouldn't it be also appropriate to cc VIN in these emails and trust VIN to keep a copy of these emails as security but trust them not to print it (which I can tell you from personal experience they are very careful what they choose to print). In that way there is at least one reporting agency that is basically a watchdog to see if any or all of these so called responsible community agencies respond to the needs of the victims as they proclaim they do and they care about?

Just wondering? Anyone out there as curious as I am?

62

 Apr 27, 2009 at 10:05 AM Exactly! Says:

Reply to #58  
Anonymous Says:

Did I read correctly?

Did Zweibel just find a long-winded and transparent way to say the roshai yeshiva are too big to be considered nogaiyah badover in issues that invlve the financail well being of the very institutions that they either own or that pay their salaries

That is why they did not need to consult other rabbis who are equally as big such as Rabbi Blau, Rabbi Moshe Wolfson, and others who do not own yeshivas and have no conflict of interest. Because "we are the biggest rabbis" "we are the gedolim".

And I wonder what the real gedolim of our generation, Rav Elyashiv and Rav Chaim Kinievsky would say about this Avla.

To be honest, if they would allow themselves to be convinced to back the Aguda's Gedolim, then we are in serious need for Mashiach. How does one stay frum in a time where all the rabbis care about institutions more than children's safety?

I'm dead serious. How does one stay frum?

63

 Apr 27, 2009 at 10:12 AM Easy for you to say Says:

Reply to #59  
Anonymous Says:

Why is everyone putting full responsibility on Agudah and Ohel? Why didn't the parents of the abused children turn the predators in to the police?
I don't see that all rabbonim discouraged this. Our Rabbi ( a very chushive Chassidishe rabbi) was very supportive of our decision to do so and that was ten years ago.
Parents, quit whining and do your job. Abused children, your parents failed you.
If you want to sue them go ahead.

While your rabbi is a daas yachid, (who never had the guts to issue a public proclamation telling parents to do the RIGHT thing) the fact is that on ABC's Nightline episode dealing with Mondrowitz, Rabbi Bomzer of the Iggud Harrabanim showed a list of 50 rabanim saying that it is forbidden to go to the police under any circumstances.

Rabbi Ahron Feldman, Rosh Yeshiva of Ner Yisroel and "Gadol Hador" on the Moetzes has said the same thing recently because he believes it. You can call him.

While the other Moetzes members have not publicly forbid it, their deafening silence on this matter speaks volumes.

The Lakewood rabbis have set up a "Beis Din" to address abuse cases that never tells anhyone to go to the police. Infact Lakewood is the only city in America that does NOT HAVE a sex crimes department in their police because they say the "rabbis don't want it".

Please be careful when criticizing good and caring jewish parents who were only following their religious leaders teachings on the subject.

64

 Apr 27, 2009 at 10:54 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #62  
Exactly! Says:

That is why they did not need to consult other rabbis who are equally as big such as Rabbi Blau, Rabbi Moshe Wolfson, and others who do not own yeshivas and have no conflict of interest. Because "we are the biggest rabbis" "we are the gedolim".

And I wonder what the real gedolim of our generation, Rav Elyashiv and Rav Chaim Kinievsky would say about this Avla.

To be honest, if they would allow themselves to be convinced to back the Aguda's Gedolim, then we are in serious need for Mashiach. How does one stay frum in a time where all the rabbis care about institutions more than children's safety?

I'm dead serious. How does one stay frum?

Please be more careful with your words. You are very close to being moreh heter for abused children to be poraik ol.

The fact that some of those who claim ownership of it use torah to protect themselves instead of protecting torah doesn't mean that torah is not emes.

65

 Apr 27, 2009 at 10:50 AM PMO Says:

Reply to #63  
Easy for you to say Says:

While your rabbi is a daas yachid, (who never had the guts to issue a public proclamation telling parents to do the RIGHT thing) the fact is that on ABC's Nightline episode dealing with Mondrowitz, Rabbi Bomzer of the Iggud Harrabanim showed a list of 50 rabanim saying that it is forbidden to go to the police under any circumstances.

Rabbi Ahron Feldman, Rosh Yeshiva of Ner Yisroel and "Gadol Hador" on the Moetzes has said the same thing recently because he believes it. You can call him.

While the other Moetzes members have not publicly forbid it, their deafening silence on this matter speaks volumes.

The Lakewood rabbis have set up a "Beis Din" to address abuse cases that never tells anhyone to go to the police. Infact Lakewood is the only city in America that does NOT HAVE a sex crimes department in their police because they say the "rabbis don't want it".

Please be careful when criticizing good and caring jewish parents who were only following their religious leaders teachings on the subject.

Are you joking? This is insane. We didn't accept the "just following orders" answer from the Nazi murders and I won't accept that here either.

Parents ARE responsible. From some of the past arguments here, some parents did not report the abuse so as not to affect their child's shidduch prospects (or siblings prospects).

So you sold out your son's dignity, self respect and his ability to have real emotional relationships... so that he will marry a better-than-average looking girl? marry into a family with a vacation home in Cost Rica? Marry into a family that can afford to keep him in kollel? Was that REALLY worth your child's neshoma?

Then when you think about how you forced your child to hold all that pain in and never deal with it.... stop and think about how many more children may have been raped by this chazer and realize that YOU are just as responsible as the rebbaim who have been protecting the molesters for years!

Real victims experience a lifetime of pain and anguish. Seriously... I hope it was worth it.

I am humiliated and feel such shame over the chillul H" that has been created here by the likes of Mondrowitz and every other piece of filth that protected him and those like him.

Aside from those who were molested in our own community, I wonder how many of these pigs went out and did this to goyim...

66

 Apr 27, 2009 at 11:14 AM Anonymous Says:

David Mandel's email address is actually: DM@ohelfamily.org

67

 Apr 27, 2009 at 11:30 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #43  
former cl employee Says:

for those of you bashing executives for their high salaries... you only point out the $alary. you don't mention though that 85.6 percent of the budget goes toward program expenses (charitynavigator.org). you also don't mention the hours, pressures & commitment....

At those salaries, they should have pressure and responsibility. However, the responsibility and true caring seems to have been forgotten.

68

 Apr 27, 2009 at 02:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #35  
A Says:

I've already crossed them off my list, I'm not about to help them with their defense fund.

How can you cross Ohel off your list - think of the mentally ill who now have homes. Without Ohel, many would be on the streets. Despite its faults, Ohel has helped a tremendous amount of people. I hope that you never need their help, but those who benefit are very grateful.

69

 Apr 27, 2009 at 02:42 PM Boycott Ohel and Aguda Says:

It's no secret who all the Gevirim are who fund Ohel and Aguda because almost all Rich people who donate big time, all want Kovod and to have their names prominently displayed on all Aguda and Ohel buildings, brochures, stationary and fund-raisers.

It is the responsibility of all Yidden to lobby all these Gevirim to stop funding these two corrupt organizations which indirectly supports Child Molestation because they block critical legislation which could fix the problem.

The only language Aguda and Ohel understands is if you choke off their funding, otherwise they could care less what the entire Jewish population wants.

70

 Apr 27, 2009 at 03:35 PM PMO Says:

Reply to #68  
Anonymous Says:

How can you cross Ohel off your list - think of the mentally ill who now have homes. Without Ohel, many would be on the streets. Despite its faults, Ohel has helped a tremendous amount of people. I hope that you never need their help, but those who benefit are very grateful.

There are other organizations that also do what Ohel does (although they are smaller) who could really use the money and would be happy to take on more workload. I will also not enjoin myself with anything to do with Ohel or the Aguda... which may prove difficult... but I will do by best. I spit on both of them.

71

 Apr 27, 2009 at 03:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #68  
Anonymous Says:

How can you cross Ohel off your list - think of the mentally ill who now have homes. Without Ohel, many would be on the streets. Despite its faults, Ohel has helped a tremendous amount of people. I hope that you never need their help, but those who benefit are very grateful.

Almost all the funding is coming from the good ole US government not our tzedaka. You can find better places to give to.

72

 Apr 27, 2009 at 04:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #57  
Anonymous Says:

fyi: not ALL organizations get govt funding. some are ONLY through private & corporate donors

Please tell me which organizations you are talking about!

73

 Apr 27, 2009 at 04:50 PM got it all wrong Says:

Reply to #10  
bar daas Says:

the main reason why heimishe mosdos should fight against the window bill, is because of fifty precent f accusations could never be proved that it happened, and mst of the time the lawsuit is a fantasy by the boy that went off the derech and wants to blame someone for his misfortune in life or his hefkeros, or is it the result of a sick or depressed parent. therefore a window would give extra opportunity fr such a case to come forward.
ashreichem agudath yisrel ashreichem ohel who both are guided with a true daas torah.

Obviously you know nothing and i mean nothing about the whole process. you think every shmuck then runs to the DA is believed and all those perps are sentenced if you think thats how it works your in dreamworld. they ask questions back and forth the person that is claiming he was abused and it is very intensed and they can tell if the person is lying or not so think and educate yourself before talking and praising organizations that are afraid they might lose their funds if they go one way or another on the bill.....

74

 Apr 27, 2009 at 04:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #57  
Anonymous Says:

fyi: not ALL organizations get govt funding. some are ONLY through private & corporate donors

OHEL gets lots and lots of government funding. I don't know which other organizations you are referring to, but it certainly is "not" OHEL.

75

 Apr 27, 2009 at 06:23 PM Sherree Says:

Reply to #63  
Easy for you to say Says:

While your rabbi is a daas yachid, (who never had the guts to issue a public proclamation telling parents to do the RIGHT thing) the fact is that on ABC's Nightline episode dealing with Mondrowitz, Rabbi Bomzer of the Iggud Harrabanim showed a list of 50 rabanim saying that it is forbidden to go to the police under any circumstances.

Rabbi Ahron Feldman, Rosh Yeshiva of Ner Yisroel and "Gadol Hador" on the Moetzes has said the same thing recently because he believes it. You can call him.

While the other Moetzes members have not publicly forbid it, their deafening silence on this matter speaks volumes.

The Lakewood rabbis have set up a "Beis Din" to address abuse cases that never tells anhyone to go to the police. Infact Lakewood is the only city in America that does NOT HAVE a sex crimes department in their police because they say the "rabbis don't want it".

Please be careful when criticizing good and caring jewish parents who were only following their religious leaders teachings on the subject.

OK lets figure out why the Rabbonim said this. Feldman of Ner Yisroel specifically was protecting a known pedophile in his own yeshiva that was recently retired to Yeshiva Lane, but was not announced to the Kehilah why, and why bochurim should not be alone with him.

Rabbi Bomzer and the 50 Rabbonim ALL knew at least one or were told of at least one rabbinic pedophile who would be disgraced had people gone to the Police.

Now take all 50 or 51 of them and compare them to the Gadlus or the authority of Reb Elyashuv and Reb Shternbuch who both paskined that we should go to the authorities in these instances. The go look up what the Sheva Mitzvos Bnei Noach are. And remember these 7 mitzvos were not only imposed on us, they are so important to Hashem they were also imposed on ALL children of Noach, meaning every person alive after the flood!

76

 Apr 27, 2009 at 06:51 PM Sherree Says:

Reply to #66  
Anonymous Says:

David Mandel's email address is actually: DM@ohelfamily.org

Thank you! I will add that to my contact list.

77

 Apr 27, 2009 at 08:32 PM Oracle Says:

I do not know where that quote about Rabbi Bomzer, long time rosh yeshiva in YU, comes from. The Igud Horabbonim never issued any statement protecting any known or alleged child abuser. The quote claiming fity Rabbonim not allowing abuse victims or their families to contact police authorities is fictitious.

78

 Apr 27, 2009 at 09:29 PM bigwheeel Says:

Reply to #18  
Anonymous Says:

I have a hard time understanding this. Agudah and Torah Umesorah are organizations that involve thousands of members, including a huge constituency of the legislators who will ultimately vote on this bill. These entities have the clout to sway the legislators by virtue of the representation of these politicians. Whether I agree with their positions or not, they had a need and right to express them.

Understanding Ohel is a bit tougher. It is an agency that has a sizable constituency and clientele of children, as well as mentally ill adults, and other adults who are mandated for treatment there (and not too happy that they must have treatment). The political position on this issue, especially because of the direct interest in the matter being vulnerable, does not carry much weight. Making this statement in public sounds quite self-centered, and whether “Daas Torah” was involved or not might not matter. It walks like a duck.

Commenter #10 made claim that a large percentage of the lawsuits will be by boys who left the derech. I doubt that. But it has been documented that many of those who left the derech have abuse histories.

Commenter #9 made a thoroughly inaccurate statement, “Ohel should certainly know that the sexually abused grow up to become the sexual abusers.” That is a cruel and vicious statement that is absolutely inaccurate. It is true that a great percentage of abusers have been victims, but this commenter has turned the statistical relationship upside down. To accuse the victim that he is doomed to be an abuser is abusive in itself. In fact, the research indicates that is true for only a small percentage of victims. How dare you! Ohel does have this one right.

...Let's all remember that in the late '70s and '80s, through the '90s, Ohel was the go-to agency. They helped children from dysfunctional families and incapacitated, lonely adults who would otherwise have ended up with non-Jewish or non-Religious social agencies. I have no idea of the inner workings of Ohel (my comments are only as an outside observer). Certainly, it appears that some [serious] mistakes were made. Especially in the area of mid-level supervision. But there seems to be no evidence that someone or several counselors at Ohel deliberately sent children for counseling to mondrowitz after finding out the facts about him. I believe that we must give them the benefit of the doubt! However, if it could be proven, then each individual (in any organization) should be held personally liable for his actions without any statute of limitations!!!

79

 Apr 27, 2009 at 10:57 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #77  
Oracle Says:

I do not know where that quote about Rabbi Bomzer, long time rosh yeshiva in YU, comes from. The Igud Horabbonim never issued any statement protecting any known or alleged child abuser. The quote claiming fity Rabbonim not allowing abuse victims or their families to contact police authorities is fictitious.

Sorry, but Bomzer was stupid enough to say in a videotaped interview within the last three or four years that because it happened so long ago Mondrowitz should be left alone. it was all over the tv news.

80

 Apr 27, 2009 at 10:49 PM Grateful to Ohel Says:

I have a sister with mental illness living in an Ohel home. Tell me what other organization could find her an assisted home? Only Ohel does this and does it with professional mental health assistance for her. My elderly mother can sleep nights knowing her child is being taken care of .Mr. David Mandel and his organization deserve so much of our tzedakah and thanks.

81

 Apr 27, 2009 at 11:27 PM what authority? Says:

Reply to #75  
Sherree Says:

OK lets figure out why the Rabbonim said this. Feldman of Ner Yisroel specifically was protecting a known pedophile in his own yeshiva that was recently retired to Yeshiva Lane, but was not announced to the Kehilah why, and why bochurim should not be alone with him.

Rabbi Bomzer and the 50 Rabbonim ALL knew at least one or were told of at least one rabbinic pedophile who would be disgraced had people gone to the Police.

Now take all 50 or 51 of them and compare them to the Gadlus or the authority of Reb Elyashuv and Reb Shternbuch who both paskined that we should go to the authorities in these instances. The go look up what the Sheva Mitzvos Bnei Noach are. And remember these 7 mitzvos were not only imposed on us, they are so important to Hashem they were also imposed on ALL children of Noach, meaning every person alive after the flood!

What is the source of your position? You blithely put down Rabbonim based on your personal point of view. Who says that what you say has any validity?

Do you represent some organization or just yourself? Why should I or anyone pay attention to your pronouncements?

Except for the emotional issues involved, no one here has recounted a full discussion of all of the issues.

Do you have any connection or interaction with Rabbi Horowitz? Please explain the reason for your approach.

82

 Apr 28, 2009 at 03:38 AM mark Says:

Reply to #81  
what authority? Says:

What is the source of your position? You blithely put down Rabbonim based on your personal point of view. Who says that what you say has any validity?

Do you represent some organization or just yourself? Why should I or anyone pay attention to your pronouncements?

Except for the emotional issues involved, no one here has recounted a full discussion of all of the issues.

Do you have any connection or interaction with Rabbi Horowitz? Please explain the reason for your approach.

SHEREE IS A TRUE EISHAS CHAYAL.SHE HAS AND CONTINUES TO DEVOTE HER LIFE TO TORA CHESED AND WORKING WITH YOUTH AT RISK.

The fact is that most victims of child abuse victims come from very poor and large fammilies with parents who are struggling financialy making their children more vunrebale to preditors who lure their victims with gifts ,money car rides.This is how the molestation begins with molestor bribing his victim to gain confidence.
If you would talk to the victims and hear their crys of anguish you would be angry on certain rebbes ,orginazations like aguda who could have done so much....but chose not do
this is not a rabbonim bashing issue to sheree and others like myself. sleepless nites and a strong love for torah and pain for the victims are getting us angry.
May hasem give sheree and other supporters chizuk and our blessings

83

 Apr 28, 2009 at 01:21 AM Its just too bad Says:

Reply to #80  
Grateful to Ohel Says:

I have a sister with mental illness living in an Ohel home. Tell me what other organization could find her an assisted home? Only Ohel does this and does it with professional mental health assistance for her. My elderly mother can sleep nights knowing her child is being taken care of .Mr. David Mandel and his organization deserve so much of our tzedakah and thanks.

Does your elderly mother know that the price being paid for her daughter's wonderful care is that thousands of Jewish kids are being placed in danger of sexual abuse because OHEL has covered up for molesters almost since it became an organization? Please explain if she does know this, how she sleeps so well at night. I don't. I really don't.

Maybe your mom would be willing to put your sister in a non-frum home for the sake of pikuach nefesh of the kids? How would your mom feel, by the way,. if because of OHEL' open non-reporting policies your sister got molested, Chas V'shalom, and then was not even able to sue because it would jeapordize "our institutions". Come now, surely mom has a bit of a heart, no????

84

 Apr 27, 2009 at 11:51 PM boroparkyenta Says:

Mayor Bloomberg works tirelessly for ONE DOLLAR a year.
I have never donated to Aguda, nor to Ohel, and I will never give Ohel one dollar!
Some of my family members were molested by Mondrowitz.
This went on for YEARS. Others in foster care were abused and molested by their foster parents. Still others went through horrific experiences, results lasting till today.
The social workers felt guilty but said they could not do anything.
I tried to volunteer to foster a child, but the red tape was impossible to cut through.
There is so much that could be done and should have been done, and is not done.
They do the barest minimum to get huge government funds, most of which goes into their own pockets. The children are given the crumbs. The workers and executives take most of it, the fund raisers and advertising take the rest.
No one cares about the children.
No efforts were ever made to place the children with relatives, who were very qualified and ready to help.
The whole system needs to be badly replaced with caring individuals that work for a normal amount of money, not an outrageous salary. Who makes $300,000 plus today? How many of us are making that kind of money? Why should we donate to fund this? We need help! And answers!

85

 Apr 28, 2009 at 06:53 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #80  
Grateful to Ohel Says:

I have a sister with mental illness living in an Ohel home. Tell me what other organization could find her an assisted home? Only Ohel does this and does it with professional mental health assistance for her. My elderly mother can sleep nights knowing her child is being taken care of .Mr. David Mandel and his organization deserve so much of our tzedakah and thanks.

As stated so many times before, OHEL gets paid by the Federal Gov't for these programs. NO TZEDAKKA NECESSARY HERE!!!!!!!!!!!
May Hashem protect your sister and may her program continue to exist in these tough fiscal times.

86

 Apr 28, 2009 at 07:08 AM Emotional response Says:

Reply to #82  
mark Says:

SHEREE IS A TRUE EISHAS CHAYAL.SHE HAS AND CONTINUES TO DEVOTE HER LIFE TO TORA CHESED AND WORKING WITH YOUTH AT RISK.

The fact is that most victims of child abuse victims come from very poor and large fammilies with parents who are struggling financialy making their children more vunrebale to preditors who lure their victims with gifts ,money car rides.This is how the molestation begins with molestor bribing his victim to gain confidence.
If you would talk to the victims and hear their crys of anguish you would be angry on certain rebbes ,orginazations like aguda who could have done so much....but chose not do
this is not a rabbonim bashing issue to sheree and others like myself. sleepless nites and a strong love for torah and pain for the victims are getting us angry.
May hasem give sheree and other supporters chizuk and our blessings

The mistreatment of the victims is certainly a heartbreaking issue and must be dealt with.

However, an emotional reaction without any basis in a reasoned logical approach will do more harm than good.

I am not questioning Sheree's motives but I haven't heard a reasoned discussion of the issues here. Many of the people who oppose her approach are caring and responsible people so I would like to hear where she's coming from.

87

 Apr 28, 2009 at 07:04 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

That's ridiculous. How can you simply disregard all the good Ohel does on account of a misjudgement, however serious, in one arena?

We should be so lucky that the misjudgement was only in ONE area. It is across the board of services that they deliver.

88

 Apr 28, 2009 at 01:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #83  
Its just too bad Says:

Does your elderly mother know that the price being paid for her daughter's wonderful care is that thousands of Jewish kids are being placed in danger of sexual abuse because OHEL has covered up for molesters almost since it became an organization? Please explain if she does know this, how she sleeps so well at night. I don't. I really don't.

Maybe your mom would be willing to put your sister in a non-frum home for the sake of pikuach nefesh of the kids? How would your mom feel, by the way,. if because of OHEL' open non-reporting policies your sister got molested, Chas V'shalom, and then was not even able to sue because it would jeapordize "our institutions". Come now, surely mom has a bit of a heart, no????

So this "mother" should pull her daughter out of one of Ohel's home because of these unsubstantiated accusations. What kind of cruel person are you? And what other places will take in these adults - both mentally and emotionally ill. Without Ohel, many will be placed in state hospitals. And that is substantiated, because my brother is in one of the adult assisted apartments.

89

 Apr 28, 2009 at 05:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Ok this is where I'm coming from. I have no motive, I have no bias. I don't get paid, and I work only for chessed.

I am sick and tired of watching the lives of children be cut off and destroyed.

I am sick and tired of watching kids get thrown out of Yeshiva because they are "bad influences" on other kids. That's pure sheker, who did that to them, who hurt them so, that they are rebelling that way? I don't want to lose even one more child to accidental or purposeful drug overdose of suicide.

I am sick and tired of the hypocrites who proclaim to be the "gedolim" and are supposed to be the best role models for the children and in the mean time are hurting, molesting and destroying them; pushing and shoving them off the derech; threatening them with death and worse to hurt their families; and even playing with their psyches telling them that they forced them to act that way; and then turning the the rest of the olam and pretending to be pious and ehrlich yiddin and receiving kovod and honor for their "good" deeds. And that includes the villain that had a child abducted and forceably sent to a torture camp "Jamaica Bay" run by goyim.

I am sick and tired of Rabbonim who call children and their parents "liars" for coming forward with the truth and telling them to "shut up" and not say a word while the molester continues to destroy one after another, child after child.

Is that motivation enough? Should I continue? I am sick and tired of young girls not being safe in their own homes in their own bed; need more? I am sick and tired of worrying about kids going off to out-of-town yeshivas and sleep away camps being molested in their bunks or in the showers. I am terrified of young boys going to the mikveh to perform a mitzvah only to be raped and molested. Should I keep going or I you as nauseous and fed up as I am? Do you think these practices should have been stopped a long time ago and some safety precautions could have been put into place?

Do you know how many yiddishe kinderlach could have and should have been saved by now? Do you know how many kids are sacrificed every single day until we stand up and reveal the WALL of SHAME?

This is my question to all of you. HOW MUCH LONGER ARE YOU GOING TO STAND FOR IT AND STAMP YOUR FEET IN DISGUST AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?

Did I say one word about not giving Ohel tzedaka for the kids they do help? Did I say one negative word about the good things that Agudah does do? Did I say one negative word about true and honest Rabbonim? I hold Rav Moshe Feinstein z"tl and Rav Pam z'tl to be my Rebbeim. As far as I'm concerned, until I meet Rabbonim as fine and ehrlich; as caring and compassionate about EVERY single JEW m'gadol v'ad katan, I reserve judgment on the rest of the Rabbinic population.

I hold the leadership who CAN make a difference responsible and accountable for exposing the pedophiles and putting them out of business. When that happens ALL forms of molestation and incest will come to an end because then and only then will the pedophiles and molesters know that their days of reckoning have come and only then will victims know that they will be heard, they will be believed and they will be protected. Any more questions for me, I hope I have made my position very clear. I have nothing to gain but to protect my grandchildren and yours.

90

 Apr 29, 2009 at 08:50 AM Sherree Says:

It seems I am being cesored, to be fair to me, the entire article and not just my comments on Robihorowitz.com was removed and is no longer available. Ahhhh the power of the Augudah!

91

 Apr 29, 2009 at 08:45 AM Sherree Says:

This is where I'm coming from. I have no motive, I have no bias. I don't get paid, and I work only for chessed.

I am sick and tired of watching the lives of children be cut off and destroyed.

I am sick and tired of watching kids get thrown out of Yeshiva because they are "bad influences" on other kids. That's pure sheker, who did that to them, who hurt them so, that they are rebelling that way? I don't want to lose even one more child to accidental or purposeful drug overdose of suicide.

I am sick and tired of the hypocrites who proclaim to be the "gedolim" and are supposed to be the best role models for the children and in the mean time are hurting, molesting and destroying them; pushing and shoving them off the derech; threatening them with death and worse to hurt their families; and even playing with their psyches telling them that they forced them to act that way; and then turning the the rest of the olam and pretending to be pious and ehrlich yiddin and receiving kovod and honor for their "good" deeds. And that includes the villain that had a child abducted and forceably sent to a torture camp "Jamaica Bay" run by goyim.

I am sick and tired of Rabbonim who call children and their parents "liars" for coming forward with the truth and telling them to "shut up" and not say a word while the molester continues to destroy one after another, child after child.

Is that motivation enough? Should I continue? I am sick and tired of young girls not being safe in their own homes in their own bed; need more? I am sick and tired of worrying about kids going off to out-of-town yeshivas and sleep away camps being molested in their bunks or in the showers. I am terrified of young boys going to the mikveh to perform a mitzvah only to be raped and molested. Should I keep going or I you as nauseous and fed up as I am? Do you think these practices should have been stopped a long time ago and some safety precautions could have been put into place?

Do you know how many yiddishe kinderlach could have and should have been saved by now? Do you know how many kids are sacrificed every single day until we stand up and reveal the WALL of SHAME?

This is my question to all of you. HOW MUCH LONGER ARE YOU GOING TO STAND FOR IT AND STAMP YOUR FEET IN DISGUST AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?

Did I say one word about not giving Ohel tzedaka for the kids they do help? Did I say one negative word about the good things that Agudah does do? Did I say one negative word about true and honest Rabbonim? I hold Rav Moshe Feinstein z"tl and Rav Pam z'tl to be my Rebbeim. As far as I'm concerned, until I meet Rabbonim as fine and ehrlich; as caring and compassionate about EVERY single JEW m'gadol v'ad katan, I reserve judgment on the rest of the Rabbinic population.

I hold the leadership who CAN make a difference responsible and accountable for exposing the pedophiles and putting them out of business. When that happens ALL forms of molestation and incest will come to an end because then and only then will the pedophiles and molesters know that their days of reckoning have come and only then will victims know that they will be heard, they will be believed and they will be protected. Any more questions for me, I hope I have made my position very clear. I have nothing to gain but to protect my grandchildren and yours.

92

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