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Israel - Charedim Clash with Messianic Jews in Rehovot

Published on: May 15, 2009 08:42 AM
By: Ynet
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Charedi man arguing with Messianic Jew  Photo: Matan MelekhRehovot, Israel - Messianic Jews took to the streets of the central city of Rehovot and handed out pamphlets in an attempt to convince passersby to convert.

Ultra-Orthodox residents were outraged by the site and began beating the missionaries. Secular passersby also joined in the action, and eyewitnesses said screams and curses could be heard.

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The ultra-Orthodox grabbed the pamphlets from the Messianic Jews, tore them to pieces and threw them in a nearby garbage bin.

One passerby said, “I think this is a kind of manipulation that is applied mostly on new immigrants. The State also prohibits missionary activity. These are Jewish missionary acts that target Jews.

“What shocked me was the violence in the area, and that the passersby did not act to stop it. Their activity in our area has continued to increase recently – they seem to have made the area a target for themselves.”

The Messianic Judaism stream movement has its origins in American Evangelistic churches and its purpose is to convert Jews to Christianity.



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Read Comments (44)  —  Post Yours »

1

 May 15, 2009 at 07:57 AM Anonymous Says:

Messianic of today are the Samaritans of the past. They say they are us but they believe in pagan Gd.

2

 May 15, 2009 at 07:55 AM Anonymous Says:

Much as I despise the messianic jews/jews for j, and not just what they stand for but their devious, underhanded methods, I value free speech more. The best answer to these crazies is more speech, more debate more kiruv. The message the charedim involved in this sent is that orthodox Jews are a bunch of tyrannical street thugs who can't handle the minimal intellectual challenge of a few nuts. What a missed opportunity.

3

 May 15, 2009 at 08:06 AM Anonymous Says:

More debate will not turn these Meshumadim away. They are killing Jewish souls and must be stopped.

4

 May 15, 2009 at 08:00 AM jewishmother Says:

Get these Evangelical Christians out of Israel. They have no reason to be there.
Lets learn something from our Muslim neighbors. Make it a death penalty offense for a Jew to convert to Christianity. If you don't like it, leave Israel.

5

 May 15, 2009 at 08:22 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
jewishmother Says:

Get these Evangelical Christians out of Israel. They have no reason to be there.
Lets learn something from our Muslim neighbors. Make it a death penalty offense for a Jew to convert to Christianity. If you don't like it, leave Israel.

I'm not even sure why VIN would post such an absurd statement to impose a death penalty for yiddin who convert other than to make the point that there a lunatics within the yiddeshe community as well as the Arab community. There are thousands of christians in EY whose religion requires them to engage in evangelical activity...we are not required to listen to them...if you are offended, then simply don't stop an talk to them

6

 May 15, 2009 at 08:20 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
jewishmother Says:

Get these Evangelical Christians out of Israel. They have no reason to be there.
Lets learn something from our Muslim neighbors. Make it a death penalty offense for a Jew to convert to Christianity. If you don't like it, leave Israel.

We should ignore these messianic meshugaoim but those who physically attack them are even a greater threat to klal yisroel and should be punished to the maximum degree the law allows. If there was a violation of a civil statute thats prohibits evangelical activity--which i doubt--those passing out the leaflets should be prosecuted as well. But the bigger threat are the chayas who time after time decide they can use physical force to impose their views.

7

 May 15, 2009 at 08:46 AM $$$ Says:

maybe when the Israeli government will stop accepting money from the evangelical's(a lot f it, too), these massianic "jews" will be fought via israel's police etc. If the police and army can fight their true own- the settlers, why shouldnt they fight these whack jobs?

8

 May 15, 2009 at 08:32 AM Binyomin Says:

These so-called messianics are not interested in debate. If one of their points is disproved, they merely move on to the next. Their only interest is stealing Jews away from HKBH for the sake of their demi-god. While violence is not the solution to the problem, I will not judge those who committed the acts; I have been in conversations with these people, and I know the level of frustration that can set in. We need a real, long-term solution to drive the missionaries out of Eretz Yisroel.

9

 May 15, 2009 at 08:53 AM Anonymous Says:

I am used to that, seeing liberal minded/political correct people posting here on VIN. But, OH MY! Defending those missionaries? How can a jew stick up for them in any circumstance? Unless......... (I hope you aint no part of them.

10

 May 15, 2009 at 09:08 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

I am used to that, seeing liberal minded/political correct people posting here on VIN. But, OH MY! Defending those missionaries? How can a jew stick up for them in any circumstance? Unless......... (I hope you aint no part of them.

Are you saying that responding to words with violence is OK?

11

 May 15, 2009 at 09:00 AM Anonymous Says:

These messianics need to be flogged.

12

 May 15, 2009 at 09:52 AM Cadd9 Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

I am used to that, seeing liberal minded/political correct people posting here on VIN. But, OH MY! Defending those missionaries? How can a jew stick up for them in any circumstance? Unless......... (I hope you aint no part of them.

The Messianic Jews are actually looking to provoke shouts and violence. They use it in their recruitment efforts. First we need to understand if violence has the disired effect or if the Russian immigrants are then just shown that Jews are scared of the "truth" and are overly violent as opposed to Messianicv love etc....

13

 May 15, 2009 at 09:52 AM Yehuda Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

I'm not even sure why VIN would post such an absurd statement to impose a death penalty for yiddin who convert other than to make the point that there a lunatics within the yiddeshe community as well as the Arab community. There are thousands of christians in EY whose religion requires them to engage in evangelical activity...we are not required to listen to them...if you are offended, then simply don't stop an talk to them

With all due respect you might be able to ignore them but how about the Jew who knows nothing of his religion except that he is Jewish. Will he be able to ignore them or have a dialouge with them? Don't think about yourself only think about the vunerable Jews who succimb to their trash & lies. One has to do all one can do to ensure that Jews remain Jews.

14

 May 15, 2009 at 09:44 AM Yechie Says:

If anybody would bother to learn the Sichos of the Rebbe, said in the last two years, and what he said about his father-in-law, they would see that we are right. Yakkov Ovinu did not die either.

15

 May 15, 2009 at 09:44 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

Are you saying that responding to words with violence is OK?

contrary to what many people think the torah does at times call for violent actions and it is not necesarily in response to physical attack or through a bes din.i am not saying that this is or is not one of those situations or that we can implement such actions today. however to say that violence is never called for is not based on torah views.

16

 May 15, 2009 at 09:43 AM izzy Says:

violence is not OK but the police should arrest the missionaries

17

 May 15, 2009 at 09:38 AM Anonymous Says:

You are assuming that violence actually occurred- notice that first the article claimed that the chareidim "beat" the missionaries, then later it says that they took their literature and tore/threw it out- I believe that their is a tremendous difference between the two, and it is definitely justifiable to throw out their literature, which obviously is full of lies and is used to convert Jews to xianity.
Who actually wrote this article- what is their motivation- do we know that things happened like it claims- especially when the article contradicts itself?!
Why do people assume that anything published anonymously (especially on the web!) is true, and use it to bash "chareidim" at any opportunity?!?!
(Yes, I know i am writing this anonymously too, but i am not asking anybody to believe any so-called "facts" that supposedly occurred, but rather to realize logically how ridiculous it is to believe unverified "facts" on a regular basis and use such "facts" to spout the most ignorant analysis imaginable, as happens regularly on this site).

18

 May 15, 2009 at 09:38 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

I am used to that, seeing liberal minded/political correct people posting here on VIN. But, OH MY! Defending those missionaries? How can a jew stick up for them in any circumstance? Unless......... (I hope you aint no part of them.

We are not "defending missionaries"; we are saying that physically assualting ANYONE with whose views you disagree in the name of yiddeshkeit is a bigger chilul hashem. The violence is worse than the naresh views these messianic jews seek to disseminate.

19

 May 15, 2009 at 09:38 AM eitza geber Says:

to Anonymous 7:55 AM. You value free speech? We are talking about outright Avoda Zarah.

20

 May 15, 2009 at 09:34 AM Anonymous Says:

Their passports should be red- flagged so as not to let them into the country again and they should be thrown out of the country with the clothes on their back!! Baggage will be shipped to address given to Israeli officials!! No Packing!! If medication is required it will be supplied by one of the Israeli Hospitals!! Baggage will greet them at the airport when they land!

21

 May 15, 2009 at 09:56 AM yankel Says:

Most of these "messianic Jews" are not even Jews, but xians who hope to get into heaven by converting Yiddin.
There is, however, a leader of this movement who moved to Brooklyn after heading their Chicago effort, named Jhan Moskowitz, Son of Max and Lilly Moskowitz
who were holocaust survivors. Moskowitz must earn a good living preaching for Jews for J. since he hand his wife were able to buy a million dollar house just 4 blocks from Torah V'das. Churches, including Sara Palin's church help fund these missionaries since practicing Yiddin are proof that their messiah was a false prophet. But he certainly makes a profit for Moskowitz and his ilk.

22

 May 15, 2009 at 10:11 AM Poncho Says:

I think there are about 5,000 places in the Torah where we are commanded to root out evil. Messianics or whatever they are, are pure EVIL!! Wack them good.

23

 May 15, 2009 at 10:09 AM PMO Says:

Are these "missionaries" Israeli citizens? If not, they should be removed from the country for incitement! Going in to a Jewish neighborhood to do this is worse than handing out holocaust-denial pamphlets.

I respect their right to free speech. I have no real problem with the other religions that go to E"Y to do "their thing" with their churches. However, taking to the streets for the sole purpose of converting yidden will knowingly incite violence. That should be enough to make it illegal. If they want to "assemble" in public for their own sake, (a parade or a rally of some kind) that is fine... but they were out on the street with a purpose to inicite others.

Throw them out of the country!

24

 May 15, 2009 at 11:11 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

Much as I despise the messianic jews/jews for j, and not just what they stand for but their devious, underhanded methods, I value free speech more. The best answer to these crazies is more speech, more debate more kiruv. The message the charedim involved in this sent is that orthodox Jews are a bunch of tyrannical street thugs who can't handle the minimal intellectual challenge of a few nuts. What a missed opportunity.

there's nothing to debate. these are sick people who use as you put it "underhanded methods" to try to steal people from their religion. especially in israel-what chutzpa!. we shoul dbeat the hell out of them, then they wont come back.

25

 May 15, 2009 at 10:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #22  
Poncho Says:

I think there are about 5,000 places in the Torah where we are commanded to root out evil. Messianics or whatever they are, are pure EVIL!! Wack them good.

The only ones who will be "wacked" are the wackos like you who will be jailed for assualt. The laws against open evangelical activity should be enforced but the laws against physical assault should take priority.

26

 May 15, 2009 at 10:35 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
eitza geber Says:

to Anonymous 7:55 AM. You value free speech? We are talking about outright Avoda Zarah.

Even if its avodah zorah, there are hundreds of thousands of Christians and millions of arabs in EY engaging in such avodah zorah in plain view every day. You can hear the arab call to prayer and the christian church bells in open view...why not attack them too...in fact, where were you on Wednesday when the heilege pope was at the kodesh hak'doshim, the kosel, praying to his God...why didn't you rush out and attack him too??

27

 May 15, 2009 at 10:31 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
Anonymous Says:

contrary to what many people think the torah does at times call for violent actions and it is not necesarily in response to physical attack or through a bes din.i am not saying that this is or is not one of those situations or that we can implement such actions today. however to say that violence is never called for is not based on torah views.

The torah never says it is ok to initiate violence against another jew but even if it did, it is against the law in EY so your fantasy view of daas torah is irrelevant anyway...either case, you go to jail if you physically assault someone who was expressing views that you disagreed with

28

 May 15, 2009 at 10:30 AM Poncho Says:

I think there are about 5,000 places in the Torah where we are commanded to root out evil. Messianics or whatever they are, are pure EVIL!! Wack them good.

29

 May 15, 2009 at 11:22 AM miami Says:

we have so many of the J4J here, and they go all over ....they do not take a frum Jews they go to the lost neshomas, so we must do more Kiev and educate our kids and keep the peace we must show that we are better then that, and the fact that
they are so desperate that they have to go to our areas to see if they can pick up kids- or any more people, we must make sure our schools teach us to love being a good Jew not force it ....on the kinder , may we bring the real meshcah now ....aman

30

 May 15, 2009 at 11:15 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

More debate will not turn these Meshumadim away. They are killing Jewish souls and must be stopped.

100% TRUE! ! ! their minds are COMPLETELY made up already, they know EXACTLY what they want, and they'll be more than happy to talk to you, because while u think you're convincing them,, they are trying to convince you. they have no right to come onto other people's turf to try and steal them away and they should bestopped- AT ALL COSTS

31

 May 15, 2009 at 01:21 PM a villainsburger Says:

Reply to #25  
Anonymous Says:

The only ones who will be "wacked" are the wackos like you who will be jailed for assualt. The laws against open evangelical activity should be enforced but the laws against physical assault should take priority.

"The laws against open evangelical activity should be enforced but the laws against physical assault should take priority"

Two problems with your statement.

A: In a sense I agree with you. If the Israeli police were to enforce their own laws, violent/physical assault should take priority over "non-violent" activity.

In other words, if the rule of law is to be enforced, A should theoretically take priority over B.

The problem is, the law just isn't being enforced across the board. The police seem to be under orders from somewhere above (not that far above:-) to turn a blind eye to this type of criminal activity i.e. missionary activities.

Now, how can you talk about law enforcement "priority", while the issue at hand is rather law enforcement "exclusivitely" (sic)?!

You might claim that two wrongs doesn't make one right, but if you're to comment with intelectual honesty, your focus would be on the selective law enforcement taking place in ademocratic country, rather than on - what you claim to be - the "criminal" REACTION to another "lesser" criminal activity.

Corruption in law enforcement is a far bigger danger to society, rather than some "intercriminal" skirmishes.

32

 May 15, 2009 at 01:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
Anonymous Says:

The only ones who will be "wacked" are the wackos like you who will be jailed for assualt. The laws against open evangelical activity should be enforced but the laws against physical assault should take priority.


B. I'm not sure of which religious persuasion you are, but if you're aware, in the religion called "Judaism", spiritual murder is far more grave and far more a ciminal activity than murder in the physiological sense.

Now I'm not advocating that physical assault teams shall be dispatched to every nightclub in Tel Aviv. Not only won't it be feasible given that the State of Israel is a secular state, and not only since it will just be counterproductive, I believe showing them the beauty of the Torah will help those tinokos shenishbu far more effectively.

But in the issue at hand, we're dealing with a well funded well trained group of individuals, who are impossible to debate since they are not bound by any logic, fact or ethics, preying on uneducated commonfolk, appealing to the emotions rather than intellect (JC suffered for YOU so you shouldn't suffer how can you reject him - just accept JC and you've got yourself an "eternal salvation" pass now go on living whatever life you want), what right do you have, moral, ethical or otherwise, NOT to take the most effective action to stop this spiritual murder spree ?!

So far as far as I'm aware there wasn't any need or opportunity for physical assault, notwithstanding the above piece of typical Israeli journalism - a microcosm of world journalistic attitude toward Israel in general.

But shall the need arise, anyone not taking all and any action the situation will require, is in dire need of immediate spiritual attention.

33

 May 15, 2009 at 03:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #22  
Poncho Says:

I think there are about 5,000 places in the Torah where we are commanded to root out evil. Messianics or whatever they are, are pure EVIL!! Wack them good.

No wacking will get the police involve that we prevent that their meshumodeis is effecttive and apparently there are Yidden who fall for this. It is Christianity/Rome which formulated a concrete form of antisemitism and later Hitler linked to it and made it fit for the 20th century. Only through prevention we can blunt their teeth.

34

 May 15, 2009 at 04:09 PM PMO Says:

I was just discussing this topic with someone else and we came up with a few points:

1. This has been a huge and growing problem for many, many years.
2. The modern orthodox shuls that have sprung up have done tremendous work in bringing yidden back to a life of Torah (or at least on the road to getting there), yet people around here constantly criticize them for their work.
3. Groups like NCSY and JEP are frequently targets for attack as being "too modern". Why? Many of these kids become frum and go on to great yeshivos while some don't, but they are certainly more "missionary-proof" at the end.

My points lead to the fact that so many kiruv groups are looked down upon. Many roshei yeshiva do not like the bochurim to get involved as "advisors" in these kiruv groups. Why not? We NEED these groups to counter the horrible and well-funded tactics of the evangelical and southern baptist groups in this country and in E"Y. Why don't we step up and do the kind of counter-programming that is necessary? Education and information are absolutely our best weapons!

It seems that Jews For Judaism, NCSY, OU, YI, JEP and Chabad (sorry if I missed any) are the only ones really interested in doing anything about the problem. I find that sad.

35

 May 15, 2009 at 05:00 PM scholer Says:

busted iliterate libiral jews. it states in the torah that when the jews would go in kannan, they should kill everybody including children. and the reason states that otherwise they would "carry your sons away from me". the torah said to kill all the midyanim all because they attempted to make the jews bow to their A"Z. so understand the diffrence between someone practices his faith in his church and someone who goes out there and tries to convert jews. It is a shame to hear jews profess such modern libiral ldeals that are so against our torah.

36

 May 16, 2009 at 05:02 AM Less am haratzim! Says:

Reply to #15  
Anonymous Says:

contrary to what many people think the torah does at times call for violent actions and it is not necesarily in response to physical attack or through a bes din.i am not saying that this is or is not one of those situations or that we can implement such actions today. however to say that violence is never called for is not based on torah views.

Anyone who knows a little Torah knows that Bizman Haza (These days) there is absolutely no heter to touch another jew (besides a mosserrer) unless iot is for physical self defence4.
Plenty can find all kind of reasons why it should be allowed but I doubt that any posek will say violence is allowed.

37

 May 16, 2009 at 09:30 PM Anonymous Says:

(reply to 36) just trying to understand on which part of the world u are that u could post today at 5 am est

38

 May 16, 2009 at 09:51 PM Anonymous Says:

(reply to 36) just trying to understand on which part of the world u are that u could post today at 5 am est

39

 May 16, 2009 at 10:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #27  
Anonymous Says:

The torah never says it is ok to initiate violence against another jew but even if it did, it is against the law in EY so your fantasy view of daas torah is irrelevant anyway...either case, you go to jail if you physically assault someone who was expressing views that you disagreed with

oooh jail. maybe its worth it to save a jewish neshama.

40

 May 17, 2009 at 01:44 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #26  
Anonymous Says:

Even if its avodah zorah, there are hundreds of thousands of Christians and millions of arabs in EY engaging in such avodah zorah in plain view every day. You can hear the arab call to prayer and the christian church bells in open view...why not attack them too...in fact, where were you on Wednesday when the heilege pope was at the kodesh hak'doshim, the kosel, praying to his God...why didn't you rush out and attack him too??

First of all, Islam is not AZ. Second, if we had the power we would ban all AZ, but unfortunately it's not possible. But that has nothing to do with this thread. Those goyim who worship AZ will have to deal with Hashem, but they're not trying to shmad Jews. When people are trying to shmad gullible Jews, they must be stopped by ANY means necessary.

41

 May 17, 2009 at 01:34 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

We should ignore these messianic meshugaoim but those who physically attack them are even a greater threat to klal yisroel and should be punished to the maximum degree the law allows. If there was a violation of a civil statute thats prohibits evangelical activity--which i doubt--those passing out the leaflets should be prosecuted as well. But the bigger threat are the chayas who time after time decide they can use physical force to impose their views.

If someone was handing out poisoned candies to your children, would you not take action? Your real problem is that you don't really believe that shmad is a fate worse than death.

42

 May 17, 2009 at 09:30 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
Less am haratzim! Says:

Anyone who knows a little Torah knows that Bizman Haza (These days) there is absolutely no heter to touch another jew (besides a mosserrer) unless iot is for physical self defence4.
Plenty can find all kind of reasons why it should be allowed but I doubt that any posek will say violence is allowed.

read the post again. i didnt say it is permissable today. i was just saying that people who think that violent actions are not in line with torah ideology are mistaken.

43

 May 18, 2009 at 12:19 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

Much as I despise the messianic jews/jews for j, and not just what they stand for but their devious, underhanded methods, I value free speech more. The best answer to these crazies is more speech, more debate more kiruv. The message the charedim involved in this sent is that orthodox Jews are a bunch of tyrannical street thugs who can't handle the minimal intellectual challenge of a few nuts. What a missed opportunity.

Much as I value free speech, protecting Jews from shmad is more important. I don't like the idea of laws to regulate who can say what, but I see nothing wrong with beating up a few missionaries.

It's not even that the missionaries are bad people. On the contrary, they sincerely love us, and that's why they want to share with us the truth that they believe they have discovered. If you found a cure for cancer, wouldn't you try to spread it to everyone you could? Kol shekein if you had the secret to staying out of Hell and getting to Heaven; that's more important than any cure of a physical disease! So of course they try to shmad us, and if their religion were true then they'd be right to try to shmad us. But what they think is a medicine is actually a deadly poison. And so they must be stopped by whatever means is necessary, including violence.

44

 May 18, 2009 at 12:12 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #37  
Anonymous Says:

(reply to 36) just trying to understand on which part of the world u are that u could post today at 5 am est

If he was in Melbourne, then Shabbos was over at about 3:50am Eastern USA time, so by 5:02 he would be home and after havdalah.

45

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