Jerusalem – Conservative Jews Decry Bias in IDF

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    Jerusalem – When Gabrielle Pollack sought to say kaddish for her recently deceased grandmother, the young female soldier found that in the Israeli Army, it can be daunting to be a Conservative Jew.

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    And the army, for its part, found it can be daunting to accommodate one as non-Orthodox Jewish movements increasingly jockey to break the Orthodox monopoly over official religion in Israel.

    Pollack, 19, is part of a 15-strong group from the Conservative youth movement Noam serving together in Nahal, a military division that combines army service, civil service, and work for their movement. But the military chaplaincy, like all of Israel’s official Jewish religious

    agencies, is an Orthodox institution that does not recognize a woman’s right to be counted and participate equally in formal prayer.

    As a result, Pollack, whose grandmother died earlier this month in upstate New York, was told she could not recite the Jewish prayer of mourning for her at her Army base’s regular Orthodox minyan. According to Conservative Rabbi Debbi Grinberg, the Noam group’s spiritual leader, the base chaplain initially agreed instead to let her organize an alternative, egalitarian minyan at the base’s sanctuary where she could do so — but then reneged, apparently after an Orthodox soldier on the base protested.

    After days of impasse, related Grinberg, who acted as Pollack’s advocate during the dispute, the chaplain gave Pollack keys to a classroom to hold a gathering where she could say kaddish but formally requested that she not hold an actual prayer service there. He suggested the participants instead recite psalms and the kaddish prayer, but indicated she could do as she wished once there.

    Pollack went on to hold two egalitarian services in the classroom, Grinberg said, and recited kaddish. But she was unhappy with this outcome.

    “This is not a solution, because he didn’t say she could pray in the synagogue,” said Grinberg. “What? The synagogue is for Orthodox people, but not for her because she wants to pray in an egalitarian minyan?”

    Army rules prohibit soldiers from being interviewed by the news media, making it impossible to speak with Pollack herself. But the IDF spokesperson’s office confirmed the outlines of Grinberg’s account in a prepared statement.

    “Several solutions were offered to the bereaved soldier which, on the one hand, conformed with the rules of her particular strain of belief, and yet maintained accepted base protocol,” the statement said.

    “It was agreed that the soldier would hold an all female minyan in a separate room, in accordance with her beliefs. The soldier has been conducting a minyan of this nature for several days.

    “It should be stated that The IDF works to the best of its ability to allow its soldiers their freedom of religion, in accordance with their different beliefs.”

    Military sources voiced exasperation with the fact that Conservative movement leaders in Israel had taken the event public. Earlier in May, one said, members of the military Rabbinate met with Conservative movement rabbis about accommodating the needs of soldiers in their community. Following this, they said, the Conservatives approached the military rabbinate about Pollack’s specific problem, and chaplains agreed to resolve the matter.

    But Conservative spokesman Shmuel Dovrat said, “We did not get to any conclusion” in the meeting with the IDF Rabbinate. “It was a nice, a good conversation, but with no bottom line, the beginning of what we hoped would be a communications channel.”

    The IDF Rabbinate’s slow and unsatisfactory response to Pollack right afterward showed that channel was “futile,” he said.

    For Israel’s tiny Masorti movement, as the Conservative Judaism movement is known in Israel, the episode offered an opportunity to once again make its case against Orthodox Judaism’s monopoly of the Jewish state’s governmental religious institutions. Under settled arrangements governing religion and state in Israel, all Jewish religious appointments and places of worship under state jurisdiction rest in the hands of the Orthodox. This includes army synagogues, which are used exclusively for Orthodox services, and the army rabbinate, which is staffed only by Orthodox chaplains.

    Israel’s Reform and Conservative movements have long been keen to change this status quo. The two non-Orthodox movements have long battled the government on issues like state funding for synagogues, which they began to receive for the first time last year. On May 19, The High Court ruled that the state must also fund conversion classes operated by the Reform and Conservative movements, breaking an Orthodox monopoly on this.

    Last September, the Conservative movement cast its attention on the army. In a letter to the IDF chief-of-staff, Masorti officials demanded that non-Orthodox rabbis be brought into the army rabbinate — a request that was turned down.

    Stymied at changing the chaplaincy’s makeup, Masorti leaders sought, instead, to break the Orthodox monopoly over army synagogues, attempting to hold Conservative services in them, too. Pollack’s kaddish dispute, in fact, follows a disagreement last Yom Kippur, when Pollack tried to hold an egalitarian service in the synagogue only to be stopped by the chaplain.

    “We are saying that Conservative soldiers should receive the same attitude from the army that Orthodox soldiers do,” Conservative movement spokesman Shmuel Dovrat told the Forward.

    Orthodox rabbis give short shrift to this complaint, claiming no injustice was done. Pollack was allowed to assemble recite kaddish elsewhere, they noted. Synagogues should be reserved for “prayer according to the majority,” said Benny Lau, a leading modern-Orthodox rabbi who is familiar with this dispute.

    There are about 40,000 Conservative Jews in Israel. Meanwhile, even discounting Haredim, who do not serve in the army, around 700,000 Israelis — one in 10 — are traditionally observant — or in American terms, Orthodox. Roughly another 700,0000 define themselves as religiously traditional, usually meaning that on occasion they attend an Orthodox synagogue.

    That is still a minority. But the Conservative movement is unlikely to experience much support from the secular Jewish majority. Secular Jews often decry incursions by Orthodoxy into the secular arena. But where there is a place for religion in government or society, such as in army synagogues, they expect it to be Orthodox.

    These disputes come as the IDF Rabbinate is also under fire on a separate front. After the Gaza campaign, it came under criticism for distributing booklets to fighting soldiers with an overly zealous right-wing agenda. The criticism was not only from nongovernmental organizations, but also from the Ministry of Defense. Following the incident, the IDF Personnel Directorate released a document limiting the military rabbinate’s involvement in educational activities.

    As far as Grinberg is concerned, the conflict over synagogue usage is part of a broader battle to have Conservative religiosity recognized by the IDF as equally legitimate to Orthodox religiosity.

    IDF rules state, for example, that soldiers must be clean-shaven, except for those who grow beards for religious reasons, When three male Conservative soldiers from Pollack’s program stopped shaving, as per tradition, from Passover to Lag B’Omer, they were told by their superiors the army rabbinate did not view theirs beards as religiously motivated facial hair. They were later given license to grow beards — but only after Lag B’Omer (May 12) when they had planned to resume shaving anyway.


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    77 Comments
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    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    she should say kaddish for the Conservative movement

    yankel
    yankel
    14 years ago

    i dont get it, if lets say, a christian soldier will want to do his thing in a shul with ehrliche jews we have to accomadate them? what these movments practice is not judaism so why make choisek of the l-d?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    This will bring israel down the so called freedoms will diminish the resemblance to a jewish state it once had. It is no longer a jewish state

    true jew
    true jew
    14 years ago

    She fits right in to a army of a country that does not respect the toreh….

    Dovid
    Dovid
    14 years ago

    She could have davened in the women’s section of the men’s minyan and said kaddish silently when the men did, if a man said kaddish (or even out loud as I have heard some women do at some shuls and was accepted by Rav Soloveickhik even if there were no men saying kaddish). Why did she need a separate minyan? Did she want to be shliach tzibur? And this was a grandmother, not a parent, so why is she saying kaddish anyways?

    Babishka
    Babishka
    14 years ago

    If there are Jews for Jesus in the IDF, do they have to be accommodated with their own special type of services and proselytizing activities? She is demanding they make a Conservative minyan just for her, let her go and find 9 other conservativas who want to davven with her.

    BTW there are Haredim in the IDF, has this idiot from the Forward never heard of the Nahal Haredi?

    Why don’t they make a Nahal Riforma v’conservativa? What, not enough to form a battalion? Not even a minyan?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    who says they are jewish to begin with?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    a woman’s right ? This is not about rights-it’s about how a Jew is supposed to serve G-d according to Torah. A woman having a “minyan” does elevate the soul of the departed. The word “egalitarian” by the way is derived from “cheit haegal.”

    favel
    favel
    14 years ago

    #4 rav soloveitchiks psak is good for the MO crowd which this was not.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    The chaplain who refused her request should be forced to resign his position in the IDF. His status as a rav is also questionable given this outrageous treatment of a yiddeshe women who wants to be kavod hames.

    Mordechai
    Mordechai
    14 years ago

    Shame on you haters. She tries to do a mitzva and receives hate. How many of you are in the IDF protecting us?

    chakel
    chakel
    14 years ago

    #8 you sound like you imploded already in you r judaism. we have a code of shulchen urech which we have to follow and cant be changed and adapted to everybodys whim. by the way, you dummy, shes not reading this so nobody is chasing her.. anyway regarding your kind of judaism read posts on article on VIM &#8 216; reform rabbi complains on rabbi lamms speech&#8 217; so whatever you say and ehrliche yidden have to say see there.

    OH REALLY?!
    OH REALLY?!
    14 years ago

    “Meanwhile, even discounting Haredim, who do not serve in the army… “

    Listen here Mr. Backward, I have a cousin who is a GERRER CHUSID serving in the IDF! Dont tell me Chareidm dont serve! I have a few friends serving who went from the USA who are BH quite FRUM which in your diction makes them Chareidim too!

    Your rag is so low it shouldnt even be used for fishwrap or to line a bird cage!

    Pheh!!

    aron
    aron
    14 years ago

    #8 she is secular already, if she follows her own (conservative, reform and down)set of rules not al pi shuchen urech..read post #1

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Kudos to her for having the courage to serve. Kudos to her for having the desire to honor her grandmother. Perhaps someone could speak to her in a way that would give her the desire to do all this the Torah way. It is Sefirah time after all, We have to relate to each other on a higher level. How can you expect her to act in a way that acknowledges Torah? I support the halachic stance taken by the Rabbi but there is little doubt in my mind that the manner will leave a bitter taste and hence halacha will be preserved but this special young lady will not be inclined to learn to channel her energies in the right way and grow in her yiddishkeit.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    #30 what you say ois not so pashut

    yankel
    yankel
    14 years ago

    #32 couldnt have said it better..i dont know if the halacha is so, didnt come accross , (we know akum can send korban oileh for sacrifices, buy the way, tefileh is in place of korbon, and they mock this mitzvah besides rest of the torah)but even a gentile can come in shul and pray… our prayers, not to oiso ish, ..but cant come into our house of worship and mock our way..so without going into haklacha that they dont belive in torah misiny etc etc which excludes them from klall yisroel (spiritually) you may not come into our house of worship and mock…doesnt matter who paskened that nashim can say kaddish, if this particular shul doesnt adhere to that psak you may not.

    yankel
    yankel
    14 years ago

    #29 you see from ‘his’ views, he has his own shulchen urch like the rest so what your arguing .a big chelek of posters are ones who are from MO and down so they have their own mix of din and goyishe gass, more of the latter. can you picture bekllal in the holy chasam soifer , noda beyehuda villner gaon,igros moshe, kehilos yackov vayoel mosh etc etc women saying kaddish in shul…the whole concept of ‘kol beisha erva’ they dont even know of it exsitance…nowhe’ll come and yell you dont listen when a womentalks..dos is alles nit kain dimyon…but go argue with am haratzim

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    I think what everyone is missing that this is an IDF shul. It should be available for all members of the IDF. The IDF should not be favoring one sect over another. She is not asking to be allowed to say Kaddish in your shul in Monsey or Brooklyn.

    yankel
    yankel
    14 years ago

    so tell me is a gentile allowed in shul to pray?

    Former BP'er
    Former BP'er
    14 years ago

    Happens to be in my CHASIDISHE Bais Medresh, the Rebitzen is in avaylis for a close relative and she tried to make sure to say kadish with the minyan. We dont hear her in the men’s side but I have been in a room off the shul and seen her stop preparing the kiddush for example, to say kadish with the minyan. Again, its not out loud but seemingly it can be done halachikly.

    I am willing to bet in this story from The Backward, that the yesoma (under “normal” circumstances, why is SHE saying kaddish for a GRANDMOTHER?) wanted to do this lifnay am v’ayda in middle of the shul which isnt too kosher.

    That’s the problem when you are a klaina chuchem… you are a grubba am ha’oretz.

    yrachmiel
    yrachmiel
    14 years ago

    dont understand the whole`issue..mummer lechol hatorah is posel for minyan and his kaddish is not worth anything

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    I’m sure if someone would have opened a sefer and explained to her why she could not say Kaddish for her grandmother on the mens side of the mechitza, she would have gladly accepted that.
    She should have been taught how to help her grandmother’s neshama have an aliya.
    All she has to do is a mitzva d’oreisa or a mitzva d’rabbanun in her grandmother’s zchus.
    Most Yidden are willing to do a proper mitzva if they are taught properly with love.
    All Yidden love Hashem and would be so happy to give him Nachas.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Why doesnt the Goverment declare Reform and Conservative serperate religions along the lines of Moslims, Druze, Eastern orthodox Christians and Samaritans?
    They would then be free to form thier own communites under thier own religious jurisdiction.

    This move would have the following benefits:
    1- Legally seperate these people as a faith community from Judaism. Call them Reformers and Converservatists. Whatever you want. Any conversion, marriage, bris, and kashrus (not that they do these things anyway) would be recorded as seperate. This would allow Rabbonim to clarify who is halachically Jewish without the whole ideological battle coming into play. People who convert Reform would be listed as Reform. If they wish to marry Jews, they would need proper conversion.
    Its the same if someone from another religion wants to marry a Jew in Israel.
    2- No Bagatz intervention. Reform and Conservtivatists would lead thier own affairs. Female clergy: do your own thing. No mechitza: do your own thing. Bar mitzva your dog? whatever. Give smicha to giraffes? go ahead,
    They could run thier affairs as they like without resorting to legal publicity stunts attacking Orthodox.
    3- Funding. As a seperate faith from Judaism, they would be entitled to funding for thier communities based on thier population in the same was that other faiths get state funding. Need the funds for your community? Ok as a seperate faith group you are entitled to build your temple as you see fit. This would eliminate accusations that the Orthodox “hold a monopoly” on state funding.
    4- It also would have the added benefit of bringing proporation to the size of these communites in Israel. Lets be honest: these communities are tiny compared to the relative population in Israel. They mostly Anglos and a fellow sabra travelers in Ramat Aviv. As a small community, they would not be entitled to equal state funding that is entitled to larger faith communities. The arguement that funding should be made available for thier temples in areas were they do not have a significant presence would be eliminated. For example, Want to build a Reformist temple in Jerusalem? hmm ok lets see the population count of reform lists 2 people. This does not qualify for state funding for a bulding. Ok Ramat Aviv? you have 50 people who qualify for small state funding. Want a Reform school in Ashdod? sorry there is 1 person listed as conservative. You dont qualify.
    5- No proslytising. Its against the law to prosletize another religion in Israel. Want to practice Reform? Ok fine in private. Just dont go to the Bagatz demanding funding to teach Reform in schools to Jewish children as a valid Jewish choice.
    6- Aliyah. Want to make aliyah and bring your non-Jewish spouse. Sorry you converted Reform or your father converted Reform.

    Something similar has been done before recently in Jewish history. If Im not mistaken Rav Hirsch z’tl legally seperated the German Orthodox community from the Reformers of his day in Germany.

    Its a painful idea and we should seperate the individual halachic Jews as Jews from these groups and give them kavod and mekarev them the same as we do for Jews involved with Christian groups or cults. But these groups are not Jewish. They do not belive in the written or oral Torah. All they do is bring moral and ethical confusion to Jews and confuse uneducated Jews with thier ideas. Set the standard for Judaism

    What does everyone think about this idea?

    PMO
    PMO
    14 years ago

    Milhouse makes a great point. Being that there is no “gold standard” in the military for how shuls will operate, the morah d’asroh should have the final say in what and how things work there.

    However, this is not a shul like in BP. This is more like the shuls in the rest of America. There are M.O., yeshivish, and even non-frum who come to daven. It is important to be as inclusive as possible within the bounds of halochoh (think Young Israel types of shuls). If she was asking for something that was completely outside the bounds of halochoh, she should be taught the reasons why and shown the proper way. If it was just that this Rav is more machmir than halochoh prescribes, I am not sure that it is appropriate for a shul of this type. It is unclear from this article as to what the real issue was.

    The military should write and stick to a “gold-standard” that is in accordance with halochoh and is as inclusive as possible. No one “group” or one Rav should be the deciding voice. It should be one standard for everyone.

    berel
    berel
    14 years ago

    #40 this was done already by the holy gedolim 140 years ago, by the ktsav soifer and all holy gedolei hador of that generation its called ‘the teilung’

    berel
    berel
    14 years ago

    #52 you mean maybe the chief rabbi to decide not ‘ the military’ who is ‘the military’? a general, captain? who are they to decide the kashruth of a shul?

    berel
    berel
    14 years ago

    #50 and like minded…dont be rediculous…how can her kaddish saying help her grandmothers neshama? when one violates the whole torah and doesnt even believe torah misinay, it only brings more kaf chovah on the deceased see mateh efraim plus numerous places…you think the HOLY ONE is just some nice guy…your a trautor to the whole torah and you come say kaddis for youy…and everything is just fine and dandy

    yankel
    yankel
    14 years ago

    #65 its not so ‘pahute halacha’ .anyway can you qoute where in shulchen urech i can see this subject

    yankel
    yankel
    14 years ago

    #65 i know simon 55 is the dinim of kaddish but doesn mention about womenreciting pro or con

    dror
    dror
    14 years ago

    #72 so you qoute gedola haposkim (by us at least )who are not in favor and they have their reason which are oileh al hadas , you dont qoute any of the gedoleh haposkim for yes saying kaddish, and you little pipsqeak are machria not like them because “reasons are not very convicing’?! The mateh efraim, THE MATEH EFRAIM! the holy chasam sofer yorah deyah simon 235, tsuvah to the matesh efraim , efraim zalmen margolis this is his title he bsstows on him ..’ likdosh yisroel ., tzadiko shel olom, nofech sapir vehalom, ohron shel yisroel, golas ariel nero yoir..peair hador goen amiti … and lets not go int o the gadlus of the others you mention and you have nerve to be machria not like the because…your gavah is unbelieveable …i assume even the holy chasam soifer would’ve said like them you woudve had nerve to state YOUR ‘dass’ torah.

    dror
    dror
    14 years ago

    #72 the gedolah haposkim you mentioned are more then enough to assur yes reason they give or not..now lets see which poskim are matira, and dont bring me a ‘poisek’ from…university..he should be s a gadol betorah and yirah like the assurim

    fradel
    fradel
    14 years ago

    #40 ‘should be available to all mebers of IDF’ so that would be christians, moslems, J for J, hindus buddists etc etc …she how much sense you make?