Jerusalem – Promiment Charedi Rabbi: One May Not Marry a Child at Others’ Expense

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    Rabbi Michel Yehuda Lefkowitz is a Haredi leader living in Bnei Brak, Israel. He is one of the heads of the Ponevezh yeshiva and is a member of the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah of Degel HaTorah. He is a student of Rav Shlomo Heiman and the Chazon Ish. He released the two volume Chiddushei Rabbi Shlomo, the torah of his rebbi, Rav Shlomo Heiman.Jerusalem – During a discussion with representatives of the “Simcha BaMaono” Housing Committee, Rav Michel Yehuda Lifkowitz told the representatives, “A person may not marry his children relying on getting money for the expenses from free loan funds.”

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    The Simcha BaMaono rabbonim have been meeting with a number of leading rabbonim in the Israeli chareidi community in search of solutions for the dire chareidi housing problem. Two Fridays ago they visited Rav Lifkowitz and heard his description of how wedding expenses have brought many parents to a financial and emotional crisis. “Many times, the happiness one sees in weddings is only a facade, because of the heavy debts crouching on the parents,” he said.

    Rav Chizkiyahu Mishkovsky, the mashgiach of Orchos Torah yeshiva, and a confidant of Rav Steinman, then asked Rav Lifkowitz if it was permitted for a person who doesn’t have the money to engage his daughter to a ben Torah, to obligate himself for an immense sum that will result in him entering an endless cycle of loaning money from one gemach to pay another, or in the end, violating his commitment to pay.

    Rav Lifkowitz answered sharply that there is no heter to marry children at others’ expense.
    .
    He nevertheless added that a young avreich should not take upon himself a heavy load of debt that he must pay monthly because this will not let him concentrate on his studies. Instead, a young avreich should only undertake low monthly mortgage payments. This development is at the heart of the chassana plan which the rabbinical committee is trying to advance.


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    98 Comments
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    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Finely finely. But how about having a child at others expense? To have more than a boy and a girl is only a “small mitzvah” only if you can afford it. (see rashi bitza # 30)

    DUH
    DUH
    14 years ago

    Here’s a novel approach for the Rabbanim to consider. How about telling their flocks to go out and get freaking jobs.

    PMO
    PMO
    14 years ago

    I’m sure I will take some heat for this, but this is nothing new.

    We have developed a culture of “entitlement” in the frum community that somewhat masks the goyishe world. FAR too many are living on everything from food stamps to welfare instead of getting jobs. Many rack up credit card debt as high as they can and declare bankruptcy. I have seen plenty push their parents to the brink of foreclosure just so they can have the “wedding of their dreams”.

    What I don’t see, are these “ready for married life” boys and girls doing anything for THEMSELVES! Girls don’t go to college so their job prospects are limited… boys don’t go to college and don’t WANT to work… so they live off the backs of everyone else. They take money from their parents (that they may or may not really have to give)… and they live on social assistance at the expense of their neighbors higher taxes.

    When did this all become acceptable, or in some cases DESIRABLE? To these children have no sense of purpose in life? Do these people not realize that they will soon have families of their own who need to be provided for? Since when is getting a job such a terrible thing? I can be certain that not every bochur in our yeshivos is there because he wants to become the next gadol hador. We all know plenty who do it in order to AVOID “real life”. Rebbaim better wake up and realize that they are creating this “entitlement” generation and it is financially destroying many families.

    Huh?
    Huh?
    14 years ago

    What took him so long to realize suddenly that people borrow money like crazy to marry off kids, buy them an apartment, etc.? This has been going on for decades.

    mayer
    mayer
    14 years ago

    According to this rabbi children should get no matter how old and never get married?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    It is utterly amazing that all they can say is don’t over borrow lest you aren’t able to pay back the gemach. What about sending these chasanim to America to collect? Why not teach them to support themselves? Do these parents have no pride? What was the thought process, have 12 kids and hope some sugar daddy from the US will love their cause and write them a blank check? And even if they did have someone fitting their bill, what do they expect their children to do?
    I just don’t get it, and I am not trying to criticize their way of life, but was there never a thought process? At some point someone was going to have bills to pay, tuition to cover, weddings to make etc…

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Someone once mentioned a novel idea. Make each Chosson and Kallah undertake their own Chasuna expenses. Wedding, apartment, furniture, etc… Arrange a long-term delayed payment plan which is paid out over the life of the couple. This way each couple will only have to pay for ONE wedding – no matter how many children they have. Good idea, no?

    opinion
    opinion
    14 years ago

    Right but wrong person to say it since he lives on other peoples money all his life.
    and by the way, you can’t judge a person, many are working hard but still can’t afford to marry their children.

    chusid
    chusid
    14 years ago

    I for one completely ignore the yerushalmi chevra coming to shul for hachnosas kalla. If everyone else did maybe these guyswho spend their days walking the streets of geula and meah shearim would be forced to get jobs.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    maybe instead of criticizing parents for going into debt to marry off their children, how about demanding that the yeshiva bochrim stop demanding such obscene prices for the “privilege” of marrying them. a true ben torah should be willing to marry the appropriate ezer k’negdo even if her parents can’t put a down payment on an apartment in bnei brak or make a big wedding or give them enough money that they can have chicken for dinner every night. a true ben torah will marry the right girl for him even if it means less material comfort.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    When able bodied and able minded young men and women and adults don’t work, but live off others, whether government benefits or charity, they are, in effect, taking from those who are poor and cannot work – the elderly, the disabled and the infirm since there is only so much money to go around. There are far too many elderly people who worked hard all their lives who now live in poverty not able to pay for decent food, shelter and heat.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    DUH is right…Yafah talmud toarah im derech eretz sheyegeas shneyhem mishkachas avon…

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    The reality is that the “kollel” system, with the lifestyle that there is no breadwinner for many years is intolerable. There are those who truly deserve the community support as one of the “asara batlonim”, and these yungerleit will be the leaders and klei kodesh of the coming generation. There can be limited kollel years for the average couple, assuming that the parents have the capacity to support this.

    I daven in a beis hamedrash where there are constant minyonim, and the sheer number of yidden from Eretz Yisroel who are simply here to be able to marry off their children is staggering. It is appropriate to feel their pain and struggle, but one may question the degree to which we must support this. Most of us to not panhandle to manage our own chasunas, and it is no more proper for them to do so. The gedolim should stop (or at least strongly limit) the letters of endorsement for these situations. I truly feel for the causes, but I have enough of a burden with my own to undertake the burdens of countless others. HKB”H should help us all, but we are not being unreasonable when we question the equity in what seems to be the pattern.

    Agent_Emess
    Agent_Emess
    14 years ago

    We created a monster folks, both here and in Israel.
    We decided certain things HAVE TO be a certain way and then it all its us.
    Sporry but we did this to ourselves

    no bias
    no bias
    14 years ago

    To all of the empty minded people who are sit’n and cock’n on VIN:I’m going to put down some nondebateable facts!:for most people (90 percent),its alot easier to work than to continue to learn the heilige torah. The people who go to work are the ones wich when they were younger they couldn’t wait to get out of yeshivah and out of torah atmosphere wich felt worse than hell!!this is because they were just stupid or had no zitzflaish!so to all you shmucks,don’t dare speak about the unbeleavable strong outsdandig men who continue to reinforce the limud hatorah and kiyum hamitzvos by sitting in the koislay bais hamedrash and horoving yomam valaylah in the torah hakdoshah.These men are the ones that are holding up klal yisroel in this terrible galus

    Pru uRivu
    Pru uRivu
    14 years ago

    I say have as many children as you can. Rely on HKBH and you will be blessed beyond your dreams. Be frugal and honest. Learn Torah as a first priority and earn a living in according to your gifts. Siman tov u’mazal tov yeheh lanu, Amen !

    Chavela
    Chavela
    14 years ago

    Please tell me where the sources are that tell us young bochurim should sit in front of gemara all day and not in addition learn to support thier familes.

    Who REALLY suffers?… Our children.

    It has been a tragic day that Yiddishkeit has seen thier young given over to day care workers and day groups to raise 8-10 hour a day while the mothers are working to a bone “supporting” thier Talmud Chochim husbands. Neither parents are raising thier own children really. This “entitlement” mold that has “recently” developed is going to see the ruin of our families because our men are no longer men supporting and protecting thier women. The next generation is getting “what” example?.

    There was recently a Rav in our town that helps kids in school who don’t fit into the “Yeshiva” mold and I am not talking about “Modern Orthodoxy” either. These kids just can’t bring themselves to want to “learn” for 16 hours a day. Some are interested in medicine, law etc. When someone disagrees with me in re to this issue I always tell them that thier “gedolim” in school will some day need a doctor or a home built. What about RAMBAM? He spent HOURS “helping” people in his craft – medicine. The Rav who came to our community summed it up perfectly. He said he has observed a great phenomena in our Yidden culture. “It used to be we were in the business of raising children, now we are in the business of raising gadolim”. Hashem help us.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    It’s really easy to know whether the “Frum” world is willing to accept this:
    See if the Hamodia prints this!

    Years of Famine
    Years of Famine
    14 years ago

    Yosef hatzadik did not have children during the years of famine. Now if economics is not a good reason for birth control, how do you explain that?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Now days there are too many weddings no one is interested to attend. Let’s go back how it was in der alter heim they made the chuppa in the shul and a meal at the house and people came over to say Mazel tov and they were happier than todays couples.

    Shlomo Zalman
    Shlomo Zalman
    14 years ago

    The so-called chareidi gedolim created this crisis and now they are makng believe that they are first finding out about it. What nonsense. They were the problem and they still are, and they know it but can’t admit they blew it.
    And all you kollel parasites out there who think thay the world exists thanks to you, you are full of it. Hard working, honest people don’t buy that self-serving arrogant crap that you spout. If you have no money, get off your tuches and get a job.

    what does he suggest?
    what does he suggest?
    14 years ago

    What did Rav Lefkowitz shlit”a offer as an alternative to borrowing?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    There is no chiyuv to make an elaborate chasuna, or to buy an apt. for the newlyweds. when i got married, my parents paid for a simple, modest chasuna and that’s all. Then my husband and I were on own. He was in kollel and got a small stipend and had a work study job, and I had a job. When we couldn’t manage this way, my husband got job training and started working. I B”H have a large family. My children B’H who are married do not depend on us. They learned how to be self sufficient, whether or not my sons are in kollel or working. So far I have one daughter married, to a working man. Why can’t everyone live this way? Don’t spend more than your means, and teach your children independence. Of course if you have nothing people should give tzedaka, that is an obligation.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    What about tanaim and amoraim who used to be blacksmths etc? They learned and they worked – in demeaning jobs….