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Monsey, NY - Hundreds Attend Symposium With Leaders Of Anti-vaccine Movement In Monsey

Published on: May 15, 2019 06:00 PM
By: JTA
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Monsey, NY - Jews are being persecuted as disease carriers amid the outbreak of measles, a New York haredi Orthodox rabbi said at a symposium with leaders of the anti-vaccination movement attended by hundreds of haredim.

“We Hasidim have been chosen as the target,” said Rabbi Hillel Handler, a Holocaust survivor from Monsey, a Rockland County town with a large haredi population, according to The New York Times. “The campaign against us has been successful.”

The Centers for Disease Control has reported a total of 839 cases of measles in 23 states as of Monday, the highest number since 2000, when measles was considered eradicated. The outbreak has been centered in New York City and state: The city alone has seen 498 confirmed cases since September, with a large number in Orthodox neighborhoods in Brooklyn. In the rest of New York state there have been 274 confirmed cases, according to official figures, with about 80 percent located in Rockland County.

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The CDC pinned the resurgence on the unvaccinated and those who brought back measles from other countries. The outbreaks in Orthodox Jewish communities have been associated with travelers who carried the disease back from Israel and Ukraine, according to the CDC.

Among the speakers at the Monsey event on Monday were Dr. Andrew Wakefield, the British physician whose study linking measles vaccines with autism has been condemned, appearing via Skype; and pediatrician Dr. Lawrence Palevsky, who is regularly cited in pamphlets circulated in New York City that urge women not to get their children vaccinated, The Times reported.

Palevsky said failed vaccines are being given in the haredi communities.

“Is it possible that the measles-mumps-rubella vaccine that is somehow being given in this lot to communities in Williamsburg and Lakewood and Monsey, maybe in Borough Park, is it possible that these lots are bad?” he asked, referring to areas in New York and New Jersey with large haredi communities, The Times reported.

“It’s fascinating because we’re told how contagious the disease is, but somehow it’s centered in the Jewish community.”

The meeting, which featured separate seating to accommodate the religious observance of the haredi community, was denounced by local elected officials, health authorities and some haredi rabbis, according to the newspaper.

Last month, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio declared a public health emergency over the measles outbreak in Brooklyn’s haredi Orthodox community. De Blasio ordered unvaccinated people living in four ZIP codes in the Williamsburg neighborhood to get the vaccine or be required to pay fines of up to $1,000.

Despite institutional pressure, a strain of opposition to vaccines has persisted in haredi communities based on false claims that vaccines are ineffective at best and harmful at worst. Large families, close-knit communities and the complexity of timing immunizations for a family’s many young children also have contributed to the outbreak.

The majority of Orthodox Jewish children are vaccinated, according to statistics issued by the New York state and New York City health departments. There is no religious reason not to be vaccinated. Prominent rabbis in New York have called on their followers to vaccinate their children.

Meanwhile, on Monday, the Yeshiva of Central Queens was ordered closed after failing to comply with a Health Department order to prevent unvaccinated students from coming to school. It is the ninth Orthodox Jewish school to be ordered closed over the measles epidemic but the first outside of Brooklyn.

On Tuesday, hundreds of New York parents against vaccinations rallied outside the state capitol in Albany calling on lawmakers to protect a state law that permits people not to vaccinate their children for religious reasons, The Associated Press reported. Some lawmakers have proposed eliminating the religious exemption in light of the current measles outbreak.

Also Tuesday, de Blasio’s office released a video calling on the Orthodox Jewish community to vaccinate their children featuring a prominent member of the Hasidic community — Alexander Rapaport, executive director of the Masbia soup kitchen network.



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Read Comments (31)  —  Post Yours »

1

 May 15, 2019 at 06:26 PM hashomer Says:

These alt-right goose schlepping rashas are endangering the entire klal, very much like the shtetl Zionists do. I guess they liked it better in the Ukraine with the pogroms. Feh

2

 May 15, 2019 at 07:00 PM chugibugi Says:

these criminally insane murderous RESHAIM have the blood of innocent children on their bloody hands,these agitators need to be arrested and given long prison sentences and their unvaccinated children need to be taken away from them.

3

 May 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM Chasid Says:

Reply to #1  
hashomer Says:

These alt-right goose schlepping rashas are endangering the entire klal, very much like the shtetl Zionists do. I guess they liked it better in the Ukraine with the pogroms. Feh

Good morning hater.

3

 May 15, 2019 at 07:23 PM HeshyEmes Says:

Reply to #1  
hashomer Says:

These alt-right goose schlepping rashas are endangering the entire klal, very much like the shtetl Zionists do. I guess they liked it better in the Ukraine with the pogroms. Feh

Dear Hashoiteh;
To who. Do you refer? The anti-vexers? They are the tree hugging lefties; not the alt-right. The Government for forcing the morons to vaccinate? Please elaborate.

4

 May 15, 2019 at 07:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
hashomer Says:

These alt-right goose schlepping rashas are endangering the entire klal, very much like the shtetl Zionists do. I guess they liked it better in the Ukraine with the pogroms. Feh

You don't miss an opportunity to spew your hate. Either take your meds or stop using the internet. I sympathize with the sentiments about anti-vaxxers. But your associations to Zionism is totally senseless, more indicative ofd psychosis than anything remotely rational.

5

 May 15, 2019 at 07:56 PM hashomer Says:

Reply to #1  
hashomer Says:

These alt-right goose schlepping rashas are endangering the entire klal, very much like the shtetl Zionists do. I guess they liked it better in the Ukraine with the pogroms. Feh

THE ABOVE TROLL POST WAS NOT BY ME OF COURSE. UNEDUCATED ARCHIE- ARE YOU STILL YELLING FOR VIN TO STOP COPYCAT TROLLS FROM USING OTHER NAMES, OR ARE YOU THE TROLLER? I DON'T POST ANTI-ZIONIST POSTS THAT HAVE SPELLING ERRORS AND MAKE NO SENSE. -The Real HaShomer., in your heads

6

 May 15, 2019 at 08:01 PM BaruchHashem Says:

The level of stupidity is truly astounding

7

 May 15, 2019 at 08:05 PM HaShomer Says:

By the way boochers, i have a strong background in autism studies. The sad fact is that the phony 'spectrum' model and the anti-vac were cooked up by desperate parents looking for a reason their children had some form of the condition. They stumbled on the fact that they could get huge publicity and funding with this phony pseudo-science, which has been totally refuted for the past 25 years by hundreds of objective studies. Autism is not a 'spectrum' and its definitely NOT caused by vaccines. Measles and polio, both nearly wiped out cause death and horrible conditions for anyone not vaccinated. -The Real HaShomer in your heads, boochers...

8

 May 15, 2019 at 08:33 PM Thetruthwillwin Says:

Reply to #2  
chugibugi Says:

these criminally insane murderous RESHAIM have the blood of innocent children on their bloody hands,these agitators need to be arrested and given long prison sentences and their unvaccinated children need to be taken away from them.

Oy vey? How many ppl. did these Reshoim kill?

9

 May 15, 2019 at 08:40 PM Thetruthwillwin Says:

With all the hype of the ongoing measles outbreak, many innocent people have unknowingly been pulled along with the media. We keep on hearing..'measles kills, measles is dangerous...vaccines are safe and effective...totally safe...totally effective..vaccines save live...'
Now 'safe' as we define it is 'not exposed to risk' yet in medical dictionary, safe is defined as 'benefits outweigh the risks'. So lets not argue whether there are dangers involved with vaccines, we know there are. Even supreme court has quoted vaccines as 'unavoidably unsafe.' The controversy we are experiencing now is-is the risk of measles greater than the risks of vaccines? Hashem in His infinite wisdom created our bodies healthy and perfect, with wondrous systems like digestive, reproductive, and also immune systems. When we take proper care of our bodies and dont tamper with it, it can do wondrous things,including fighting the new plague-measles.(1/500,000 deaths in US) And although theres a lot I dont know, something in me tells me that we dont need 72 vaccines (by the time we reach 18 years of age)in order to survive.
And so, some people have made an informed decision that measles, a once-typical childhood disease has less risks and actually greater benefits than the vaccine created to prevent it. Bottom line, we all want to stay healthy and safe which is the reason why some of us vaccinate and some do not.
Now the issue on hand is called 'The Blame Game'.
1. Lets blame the 'anti-vaxxers for killing immune compromised ppl.
Now ppl. I have big news for you. If someone has an immune compromised system, they can die from...The Common Cold! Such ppl must be really careful around ANY germs, bacteria, or virus, whether theres a vaccine for it or not. Now how deadly is measles? Fyi, you have a greater chance of dying from a lightning strike than dying of measles. Yes, I agree 100 % that people who choose measles over vaccines must deal with the downside of staying home IF they get sick, until no longer contagious.
2. Lets blame then for chillul hashem
Now this is what I'd really like to address. Unfortunately, this outbreak 'crisis' seems to have been a test at our ahavas chaveirim, one which many of us have failed terribly. The name-calling, shaming, disinviting.. because someone's views and opinions dont align with yours? Brother vs. Brother! Jew vs. Jew! How painful is that to Hashem? And when He sees this, He ch'v says: If he is not your brother, then I am not your father...Anti-semitism on the rise?yes, amongst our very own! Why then should THEY tolerate us?
Let's put an end to all this blame and shame and start respecting one another for their decision. Lets chill a bit and not get into the hysteria the media and ultimately pharmaceutical co. are trying to create to fit their agenda. Media is feeding one sided info and anyone challenging that will be silenced by big pharma. Do your research instead of parroting the media. May g-d protect us all.
As a side note, for those concerned about the unvaxxed ruining it for all since we need herd immunity (95%) in order for vaccines to work: i have sad news: about 50% of VACCINATED adults walking the streets are not IMMUNE and can, and have, spread measles, simply because vaccines do not give lifelong immunity as the disease itself does. It wanes with time and most adults need boosters in order to be immune.
Be well.

10

 May 15, 2019 at 08:59 PM NEW-NU Says:

Last week, we read about putting a stumbling block before the blind. These speakers do not have medical evidence to back up their claims. There is evidence that measles can be a serious diease and that with herd immunity, it can be prevented.

11

 May 15, 2019 at 09:16 PM Chasid Says:

Reply to #7  
HaShomer Says:

By the way boochers, i have a strong background in autism studies. The sad fact is that the phony 'spectrum' model and the anti-vac were cooked up by desperate parents looking for a reason their children had some form of the condition. They stumbled on the fact that they could get huge publicity and funding with this phony pseudo-science, which has been totally refuted for the past 25 years by hundreds of objective studies. Autism is not a 'spectrum' and its definitely NOT caused by vaccines. Measles and polio, both nearly wiped out cause death and horrible conditions for anyone not vaccinated. -The Real HaShomer in your heads, boochers...

Thanks for making it clear for all of us we do understand you and we feel your pain, I knew all along that a normal healthy Jew doesn't spew so much hate, I admire your courage to come out in public that you an autism background.

12

 May 15, 2019 at 09:19 PM Normal Says:

Totally agree with #2

I'm glad that people who haven't learnt even the basics of science, maths and stats and get their information from anonymous blogs on the internet, know much better than thousands of scientists, doctors, researchers, epidemiologists etc worldwide. They are not only putting themselves and their families in danger but also of hundreds or thousands of people they come close to. Absolute idiots.
PS do you know that there are trolls out there on the internet who encourage depressed people to commit suicide just for their entertainment. How do you know that the anonymous blogs you get your information from are not trolls who think it's funny if your children died from the measles?
Do you know there are hundreds of thousands of people who believe the world is flat and do lots and lots of research to back up their stupidity. They say that NASA, like the pharma companies are lying to us.

13

 May 15, 2019 at 09:28 PM PaulinSaudi Says:

Well, the world is full of fools. It is a shame they will not admit their mistake.

14

 May 15, 2019 at 10:04 PM BuzBuz Says:

Sick sick people

15

 May 15, 2019 at 10:41 PM qazxc Says:

Reply to #7  
HaShomer Says:

By the way boochers, i have a strong background in autism studies. The sad fact is that the phony 'spectrum' model and the anti-vac were cooked up by desperate parents looking for a reason their children had some form of the condition. They stumbled on the fact that they could get huge publicity and funding with this phony pseudo-science, which has been totally refuted for the past 25 years by hundreds of objective studies. Autism is not a 'spectrum' and its definitely NOT caused by vaccines. Measles and polio, both nearly wiped out cause death and horrible conditions for anyone not vaccinated. -The Real HaShomer in your heads, boochers...

Would you mind sharing with us what degrees you've earned in any field that should cause anyone to consider your opinion of the existence of an autism spectrum, as well as what peer reviewed studies you've published on the subject?

Otherwise your opinion is worth about as much as that laitz Hollander.

16

 May 16, 2019 at 02:16 AM Chasid Says:

Reply to #12  
Normal Says:

Totally agree with #2

I'm glad that people who haven't learnt even the basics of science, maths and stats and get their information from anonymous blogs on the internet, know much better than thousands of scientists, doctors, researchers, epidemiologists etc worldwide. They are not only putting themselves and their families in danger but also of hundreds or thousands of people they come close to. Absolute idiots.
PS do you know that there are trolls out there on the internet who encourage depressed people to commit suicide just for their entertainment. How do you know that the anonymous blogs you get your information from are not trolls who think it's funny if your children died from the measles?
Do you know there are hundreds of thousands of people who believe the world is flat and do lots and lots of research to back up their stupidity. They say that NASA, like the pharma companies are lying to us.

You are just as ignorant then the rest, you go along with all the non sense as if scientists are good, as a Jew our rabbi's in all generations tought us that they don't know as much and you should not put your beliefs and trust in them, what has happened now is astonishing, out the window went all our Jewish teaching, having faith in hashem, no one get get sick if hashem doesn't want you to, the doctor became God and we trust them blindly, I bet you 99% of those bashers did not even once think about davening to hashem the kids should stay healthy, this would never happen in one generations before us.
PS the same scientists world you believe in so much that you can't even understand how others dare questions them, also say the world exist millions of years, dinisours we're roaming around and people come from apes etc. And they have enough scientific evidence to back all this up, Ohh here you just laugh them off as stupid ignorant apikorsim, geuss what?! How is the ignorant here?....

17

 May 16, 2019 at 06:32 AM Greener Says:

Reply to #9  
Thetruthwillwin Says:

With all the hype of the ongoing measles outbreak, many innocent people have unknowingly been pulled along with the media. We keep on hearing..'measles kills, measles is dangerous...vaccines are safe and effective...totally safe...totally effective..vaccines save live...'
Now 'safe' as we define it is 'not exposed to risk' yet in medical dictionary, safe is defined as 'benefits outweigh the risks'. So lets not argue whether there are dangers involved with vaccines, we know there are. Even supreme court has quoted vaccines as 'unavoidably unsafe.' The controversy we are experiencing now is-is the risk of measles greater than the risks of vaccines? Hashem in His infinite wisdom created our bodies healthy and perfect, with wondrous systems like digestive, reproductive, and also immune systems. When we take proper care of our bodies and dont tamper with it, it can do wondrous things,including fighting the new plague-measles.(1/500,000 deaths in US) And although theres a lot I dont know, something in me tells me that we dont need 72 vaccines (by the time we reach 18 years of age)in order to survive.
And so, some people have made an informed decision that measles, a once-typical childhood disease has less risks and actually greater benefits than the vaccine created to prevent it. Bottom line, we all want to stay healthy and safe which is the reason why some of us vaccinate and some do not.
Now the issue on hand is called 'The Blame Game'.
1. Lets blame the 'anti-vaxxers for killing immune compromised ppl.
Now ppl. I have big news for you. If someone has an immune compromised system, they can die from...The Common Cold! Such ppl must be really careful around ANY germs, bacteria, or virus, whether theres a vaccine for it or not. Now how deadly is measles? Fyi, you have a greater chance of dying from a lightning strike than dying of measles. Yes, I agree 100 % that people who choose measles over vaccines must deal with the downside of staying home IF they get sick, until no longer contagious.
2. Lets blame then for chillul hashem
Now this is what I'd really like to address. Unfortunately, this outbreak 'crisis' seems to have been a test at our ahavas chaveirim, one which many of us have failed terribly. The name-calling, shaming, disinviting.. because someone's views and opinions dont align with yours? Brother vs. Brother! Jew vs. Jew! How painful is that to Hashem? And when He sees this, He ch'v says: If he is not your brother, then I am not your father...Anti-semitism on the rise?yes, amongst our very own! Why then should THEY tolerate us?
Let's put an end to all this blame and shame and start respecting one another for their decision. Lets chill a bit and not get into the hysteria the media and ultimately pharmaceutical co. are trying to create to fit their agenda. Media is feeding one sided info and anyone challenging that will be silenced by big pharma. Do your research instead of parroting the media. May g-d protect us all.
As a side note, for those concerned about the unvaxxed ruining it for all since we need herd immunity (95%) in order for vaccines to work: i have sad news: about 50% of VACCINATED adults walking the streets are not IMMUNE and can, and have, spread measles, simply because vaccines do not give lifelong immunity as the disease itself does. It wanes with time and most adults need boosters in order to be immune.
Be well.

•'The time has come,' the walrus said, 'to talk of many things: of shoes and ships - and sealing vax - of cabbages and kings.'
But next time keep it short.

18

 May 16, 2019 at 06:57 AM Shlomo-1 Says:

Reply to #9  
Thetruthwillwin Says:

With all the hype of the ongoing measles outbreak, many innocent people have unknowingly been pulled along with the media. We keep on hearing..'measles kills, measles is dangerous...vaccines are safe and effective...totally safe...totally effective..vaccines save live...'
Now 'safe' as we define it is 'not exposed to risk' yet in medical dictionary, safe is defined as 'benefits outweigh the risks'. So lets not argue whether there are dangers involved with vaccines, we know there are. Even supreme court has quoted vaccines as 'unavoidably unsafe.' The controversy we are experiencing now is-is the risk of measles greater than the risks of vaccines? Hashem in His infinite wisdom created our bodies healthy and perfect, with wondrous systems like digestive, reproductive, and also immune systems. When we take proper care of our bodies and dont tamper with it, it can do wondrous things,including fighting the new plague-measles.(1/500,000 deaths in US) And although theres a lot I dont know, something in me tells me that we dont need 72 vaccines (by the time we reach 18 years of age)in order to survive.
And so, some people have made an informed decision that measles, a once-typical childhood disease has less risks and actually greater benefits than the vaccine created to prevent it. Bottom line, we all want to stay healthy and safe which is the reason why some of us vaccinate and some do not.
Now the issue on hand is called 'The Blame Game'.
1. Lets blame the 'anti-vaxxers for killing immune compromised ppl.
Now ppl. I have big news for you. If someone has an immune compromised system, they can die from...The Common Cold! Such ppl must be really careful around ANY germs, bacteria, or virus, whether theres a vaccine for it or not. Now how deadly is measles? Fyi, you have a greater chance of dying from a lightning strike than dying of measles. Yes, I agree 100 % that people who choose measles over vaccines must deal with the downside of staying home IF they get sick, until no longer contagious.
2. Lets blame then for chillul hashem
Now this is what I'd really like to address. Unfortunately, this outbreak 'crisis' seems to have been a test at our ahavas chaveirim, one which many of us have failed terribly. The name-calling, shaming, disinviting.. because someone's views and opinions dont align with yours? Brother vs. Brother! Jew vs. Jew! How painful is that to Hashem? And when He sees this, He ch'v says: If he is not your brother, then I am not your father...Anti-semitism on the rise?yes, amongst our very own! Why then should THEY tolerate us?
Let's put an end to all this blame and shame and start respecting one another for their decision. Lets chill a bit and not get into the hysteria the media and ultimately pharmaceutical co. are trying to create to fit their agenda. Media is feeding one sided info and anyone challenging that will be silenced by big pharma. Do your research instead of parroting the media. May g-d protect us all.
As a side note, for those concerned about the unvaxxed ruining it for all since we need herd immunity (95%) in order for vaccines to work: i have sad news: about 50% of VACCINATED adults walking the streets are not IMMUNE and can, and have, spread measles, simply because vaccines do not give lifelong immunity as the disease itself does. It wanes with time and most adults need boosters in order to be immune.
Be well.

Please provide a source for your statement that measles has "1/500,000 deaths in US."
The reported case-fatality rate in the US is actually 1/1,000-2,000 per the CDC.
As safety is not just a matter of deaths, don't forget that complications like pneumonia (6%) are a factor with an overall 30% complication rate (13th Edition Epidemiology and Prevention of Vaccine-Preventable Diseases).

Immune compromised: you're treating it like an all-or-nothing.
*Severely* immune compromised people can be put at risk by the common cold. However, like many things, there is a spectrum and measles is both highly infectious and dangerous. Of course, the other thing is that measles is preventable! While we have yet to have a cure for the common cold, we do have a cheap, easy, and relatively safe way to prevent measles.
Please provide a citation for "about 50% of VACCINATED adults...are not IMMUNE."
Wrong. It's closer to 10% (Markowitz LE, Preblud SR, Fine PE, Orenstein WA. Duration of Live Measles Vaccine-Induced Immunity. Pediatr Infect Dis J. 1990; 9:101-110).

19

 May 16, 2019 at 07:31 AM Anonymous Says:

To: #15- I was wondering when you would inspire us with your scholarly, holier than thou opinions. We really look forward to hearing from you; in fact, you are even more popular on this site, than Educated Archy. Mazel Tov!

20

 May 16, 2019 at 11:07 AM Shlomo-1 Says:

Reply to #16  
Chasid Says:

You are just as ignorant then the rest, you go along with all the non sense as if scientists are good, as a Jew our rabbi's in all generations tought us that they don't know as much and you should not put your beliefs and trust in them, what has happened now is astonishing, out the window went all our Jewish teaching, having faith in hashem, no one get get sick if hashem doesn't want you to, the doctor became God and we trust them blindly, I bet you 99% of those bashers did not even once think about davening to hashem the kids should stay healthy, this would never happen in one generations before us.
PS the same scientists world you believe in so much that you can't even understand how others dare questions them, also say the world exist millions of years, dinisours we're roaming around and people come from apes etc. And they have enough scientific evidence to back all this up, Ohh here you just laugh them off as stupid ignorant apikorsim, geuss what?! How is the ignorant here?....

While we certainly should not trust them 100%, that doesn't mean we don't go to doctors. We don't believe in relying upon miracles: we do believe in getting treated for injuries and illnesses. We also recommend getting second opinions for some important medical decisions.
We can debate the accuracy of paleontology, geology, etc. and whether we can reliably describe the far past.
We have a much greater ability to test and measure current diseases and treatments. If you want to debate the science of vaccination, you have to bring more to the table than your opinion that it is non sense.

21

 May 16, 2019 at 12:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
Chasid Says:

You are just as ignorant then the rest, you go along with all the non sense as if scientists are good, as a Jew our rabbi's in all generations tought us that they don't know as much and you should not put your beliefs and trust in them, what has happened now is astonishing, out the window went all our Jewish teaching, having faith in hashem, no one get get sick if hashem doesn't want you to, the doctor became God and we trust them blindly, I bet you 99% of those bashers did not even once think about davening to hashem the kids should stay healthy, this would never happen in one generations before us.
PS the same scientists world you believe in so much that you can't even understand how others dare questions them, also say the world exist millions of years, dinisours we're roaming around and people come from apes etc. And they have enough scientific evidence to back all this up, Ohh here you just laugh them off as stupid ignorant apikorsim, geuss what?! How is the ignorant here?....

Dear Chasid Shoteh:

Please refrain from making yourself sound like you're knowledgeable. Your ignorance level is extreme. Firstly, have you ever discovered that Chazal say יש חכמה בגוים? Secondly, have you ever seen the Chachomim instruct us to sit back, do absolutely nothing but daven, and that will give us parnosoh, health, even children? Such belief is certainly kefira, but is also grandly idiotic. HKB"H placed mankind here to work with the world, ואדם אין לעבוד את האדמה, not to be a lazy bum and expect all to fall from heaven. HKB"H granted us the science to make discoveries, and many of these enable us to promote our health, cure disease, and correct the abnormal. Did you ever fall and need stitches? How about staying away from these evil doctors and expect the wound to close and heal itself. Stop spewing your stupidity.

Faith in Hashem does not excuse us from doing the hishtadlus that we can. If you believe that vaccines are not good for you, that's your freedom. But there is no Torah approved heter to cause risk to others. And the nearly unanimous conclusion of our Poskim require vaccinations. And I trust any of them over you anyday.

22

 May 16, 2019 at 02:15 PM Chasid Says:

Reply to #21  
Anonymous Says:

Dear Chasid Shoteh:

Please refrain from making yourself sound like you're knowledgeable. Your ignorance level is extreme. Firstly, have you ever discovered that Chazal say יש חכמה בגוים? Secondly, have you ever seen the Chachomim instruct us to sit back, do absolutely nothing but daven, and that will give us parnosoh, health, even children? Such belief is certainly kefira, but is also grandly idiotic. HKB"H placed mankind here to work with the world, ואדם אין לעבוד את האדמה, not to be a lazy bum and expect all to fall from heaven. HKB"H granted us the science to make discoveries, and many of these enable us to promote our health, cure disease, and correct the abnormal. Did you ever fall and need stitches? How about staying away from these evil doctors and expect the wound to close and heal itself. Stop spewing your stupidity.

Faith in Hashem does not excuse us from doing the hishtadlus that we can. If you believe that vaccines are not good for you, that's your freedom. But there is no Torah approved heter to cause risk to others. And the nearly unanimous conclusion of our Poskim require vaccinations. And I trust any of them over you anyday.

So you're just as dumb as the rest of them all, did anybody talk about going to doctors when you're sick? we're talking about healthy children newborns that the only reason you give them injections are based on science there's no other reason, there's no epidemic going around there's no HIV going around in newborns to give them to Hep b virus vaccine and polio is not going around it's not an epidemic, nobody is trying to get healed it's playing God.

22

 May 16, 2019 at 02:17 PM Chasid Says:

Reply to #20  
Shlomo-1 Says:

While we certainly should not trust them 100%, that doesn't mean we don't go to doctors. We don't believe in relying upon miracles: we do believe in getting treated for injuries and illnesses. We also recommend getting second opinions for some important medical decisions.
We can debate the accuracy of paleontology, geology, etc. and whether we can reliably describe the far past.
We have a much greater ability to test and measure current diseases and treatments. If you want to debate the science of vaccination, you have to bring more to the table than your opinion that it is non sense.

I was just bringing a point you really thought that start debating now and bringing the whole issue to the table now with all evidence on both sides, I'm just bringing a point that the main issue that pro vaxxers have against anti-vaxxers is that they think they're smarter than the scientist all I said is when we don't like what they say we all laugh about them that's all.

23

 May 16, 2019 at 02:21 PM Chasid Says:

Reply to #21  
Anonymous Says:

Dear Chasid Shoteh:

Please refrain from making yourself sound like you're knowledgeable. Your ignorance level is extreme. Firstly, have you ever discovered that Chazal say יש חכמה בגוים? Secondly, have you ever seen the Chachomim instruct us to sit back, do absolutely nothing but daven, and that will give us parnosoh, health, even children? Such belief is certainly kefira, but is also grandly idiotic. HKB"H placed mankind here to work with the world, ואדם אין לעבוד את האדמה, not to be a lazy bum and expect all to fall from heaven. HKB"H granted us the science to make discoveries, and many of these enable us to promote our health, cure disease, and correct the abnormal. Did you ever fall and need stitches? How about staying away from these evil doctors and expect the wound to close and heal itself. Stop spewing your stupidity.

Faith in Hashem does not excuse us from doing the hishtadlus that we can. If you believe that vaccines are not good for you, that's your freedom. But there is no Torah approved heter to cause risk to others. And the nearly unanimous conclusion of our Poskim require vaccinations. And I trust any of them over you anyday.

And you're thinking that you're the big talmid chacham here with all your hashkafos, you have no clue what you're talking about, I'm saying most people did not Davin they're busy bashing, what does this have to do with a stylus I'm talking about healthy kids injecting with a virus based on the belief that that's the only way your child will be healthy, hashem keeps our children safe and healthy every second of the day that has nothing to do when something out of the ordinary happened when you have to when you should go to a doctor to get healed.

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 May 16, 2019 at 03:51 PM Thinkalittle Says:

(reply to #9)
Where are you getting your information from? Do a simple Google search on the odds of getting hit by lightning, and you'll learn that the odds are 1 in 700,000. Unfortunately, the odds of dying from the measles are a lot greater. Just check what the World Health Organization reports, if you don't trust the evil U.S. government. Baruch Hashem no deaths have been reported yet in the US this year, because the number of measles cases is still not that high. In 1920, the United States had 469,924 recorded cases of measles and 7,575 deaths associated with measles. That's just a random year from before the MMR vaccine. Please don't spread lies and present them as facts.

25

 May 16, 2019 at 06:14 PM Chasid Says:

Reply to #24  
Thinkalittle Says:

(reply to #9)
Where are you getting your information from? Do a simple Google search on the odds of getting hit by lightning, and you'll learn that the odds are 1 in 700,000. Unfortunately, the odds of dying from the measles are a lot greater. Just check what the World Health Organization reports, if you don't trust the evil U.S. government. Baruch Hashem no deaths have been reported yet in the US this year, because the number of measles cases is still not that high. In 1920, the United States had 469,924 recorded cases of measles and 7,575 deaths associated with measles. That's just a random year from before the MMR vaccine. Please don't spread lies and present them as facts.

Anyone with a clear mind knows you can't compare the whole world and check it with numbers in the US, you need numbers from the US only, the world health organization combines third world countries where there is a lot of malnutrition and every small virus that spreads people die.

25

 May 16, 2019 at 06:15 PM Shlomo-1 Says:

Reply to #22  
Chasid Says:

So you're just as dumb as the rest of them all, did anybody talk about going to doctors when you're sick? we're talking about healthy children newborns that the only reason you give them injections are based on science there's no other reason, there's no epidemic going around there's no HIV going around in newborns to give them to Hep b virus vaccine and polio is not going around it's not an epidemic, nobody is trying to get healed it's playing God.

Yes, the only reason to give injections is based on science. What is your point? Science is a very good tool.
We are told to "guard our health" and do things to prevent illness and not just wait to be sick or injured.
There is an outbreak (it's not an epidemic) of measles: we need to encourage people to get vaccinated.
Hep b virus vaccine does not protect against HIV (two different viruses).
There are people who carry Hepatitis B and it's a risk to newborns, especially if the mother is a carrier.
No, polio is not epidemic either but not something you want to gamble with.
Why is your criterion whether or not it's an epidemic? That's like with the MMR and looking only at deaths but not considering encephalitis or pneumonia.
Your criteria are biased.

26

 May 16, 2019 at 07:32 PM Thinkalittle Says:

(reply to #25)
Did you not read the statistics of the number of measles cases and deaths in the year 1920 IN THE UNITED STATES? I'm not sure what your response is supposed to mean. Unfortunately, when one presents anti-vaxxers with statistics from the rest of the world, they say those numbers mean nothing because they include third world countries. And then when you present them with statistics from the U. S., the usual response is that you can't believe what the CDC says because they're controlled by Big Pharma, etc. And they love to say you can't trust doctors and scientists because they're all either biased or ignorant, but then they bring a discredited doctor to "prove" their agenda. Why a doctor? Aren't doctors people we shouldn't be believing?

27

 May 16, 2019 at 08:18 PM Chasid Says:

Reply to #26  
Thinkalittle Says:

(reply to #25)
Did you not read the statistics of the number of measles cases and deaths in the year 1920 IN THE UNITED STATES? I'm not sure what your response is supposed to mean. Unfortunately, when one presents anti-vaxxers with statistics from the rest of the world, they say those numbers mean nothing because they include third world countries. And then when you present them with statistics from the U. S., the usual response is that you can't believe what the CDC says because they're controlled by Big Pharma, etc. And they love to say you can't trust doctors and scientists because they're all either biased or ignorant, but then they bring a discredited doctor to "prove" their agenda. Why a doctor? Aren't doctors people we shouldn't be believing?

Yes do go check what the rate was in 1920 it was half that amount in the 1960s before the vaccine came out so yes when the USA transitioned to a developed Nation the numbers started dropping way before the vaccines came out.

28

 May 17, 2019 at 12:54 PM HeshyEmes Says:

It's very simple.
1. Getting the vaccine subjects you (or your child) to a very, very small risk of serious complications, or even death.
2. Measles, if not vaccinated against is way more dangerous, by a factor of 100 to 1,000.
3. If the herd vaccinated, i.e. over 95%; than the 4% or less that's not vaccinated has the advantages of the inability to get measles (no one to catch it from); and not the tiny risk of the vaccine itself.
4. Traditionally, newborns, children who nebech have cancer, and others with immune suppression who were not able to be vaccinated were the small percentage who were not immunized; but weren't at risk because no one to catch it from.
5. It is incredibly selfish, and stupid (because you dont know how many others are as selfish as you) to try to be in the 4%; especially by risking the people who cannot vaccinate.
6. Typical; that in the present "me generation" of the millennials that we would have these selfish idiots who hide behind Religion and the wackos.
7. The conspiracy nuts are stupid people who need to assert their "intelligence" by being "in the know", and are not "fooled" like the masses. The ones who spout the "oilem goilem" dogma.

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