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London - Orthodox Jews Protest Opening Of Women-only London Pond To Trans Swimmers

Published on: May 23, 2019 07:00 PM
By: JTA
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London - A women’s-only pond in North London will now be open to transgender swimmers, which will prevent Orthodox Jews from using the pond.

A group of haredi Orthodox women are planning to fight the decision, the London-based Jewish Chronicle reported.

Under Jewish law, women cannot be dressed immodestly in front of men. Trans women are still considered men according to Orthodox Jewish law, which prevents the women from swimming there.

The decision concerning the pond on Hampstead Heath was announced this week. Edward Lord, who headed the committee that approved the change, said it “will ensure our public services do not discriminate against trans people.”

Transgender women already are allowed to use the ladies’ pond, but the change means their right of access is now enshrined in formal rules, according to the Evening Standard.

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A judicial review challenge is being prepared against the City of London’s decision, and the Orthodox Jewish women are expected to be part of it, the Jewish Chronicle reported. The decision came after a “public consultation,” according to the report.

The decision to allow trans women to use the pond is consistent with the city’s non-discrimination policy.

The Hampstead ponds also include one for men only and one for mixed swimming.



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Read Comments (30)  —  Post Yours »

1

 May 23, 2019 at 07:25 PM PowerUp Says:

The world has gone crazy

2

 May 23, 2019 at 07:42 PM Emes Says:

They are men according to anyone with a half a brain.
Only mentality ill liberals think otherwise. They are all insane.

3

 May 23, 2019 at 08:27 PM Liberal Lisa Says:

They should discriminate based on sex, not gender. Those with female bodies must avoid those with male bodies; it doesn't matter what's inside the brain.

3

 May 23, 2019 at 08:44 PM Aron1 Says:

How about a pond for Mixed-up swimming?

4

 May 23, 2019 at 09:22 PM ELEPHANT Says:

Who pays for all these conversions ??

5

 May 23, 2019 at 10:03 PM yosher Says:

I, too, was a male captive in a woman's body.....but then my mother gave birth to me.

6

 May 24, 2019 at 12:14 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Emes Says:

They are men according to anyone with a half a brain.
Only mentality ill liberals think otherwise. They are all insane.

They are men whose brains tragically developed female. It is a sad disorder.

7

 May 24, 2019 at 04:02 AM PaulinSaudi Says:

People of ambiguous sexual identity seem to cause little trouble in situations like this.

8

 May 24, 2019 at 06:27 AM Anonymous Says:

Leftists are anti science morons

9

 May 24, 2019 at 06:56 AM commonsense99 Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

They are men whose brains tragically developed female. It is a sad disorder.

what is someone brain makes them think that he is a dog, can he play in the dog park?

10

 May 24, 2019 at 07:59 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

They are men whose brains tragically developed female. It is a sad disorder.

Put them in a home.
Society doesn’t need to celebrate them. They are sick people.

11

 May 24, 2019 at 08:53 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Emes Says:

They are men according to anyone with a half a brain.
Only mentality ill liberals think otherwise. They are all insane.

The Tzitz Eliezer has a famous responsum (שו"ת ציץ אליעזר ח"י סי’ כ"ה פרק כ"ו קטע ו- section 10, 25:26:6.) where he states that sex changes are effective in changing one's halachic gender.

Rav Waldenberg adds: if it were advisable (medically) to turn (a man who cannot function as a man) into a female, that option is halachically permissible.

Rav Waldenberg maintains that this is also the opinion of the Meiri in Yevamot; in my view, it may also be the solution to a cryptic statement by the Rogachover Rebbe in his Tzafnat Paneach (Yibum, chap. 10, Kelaim, 10, Shut 60:144). The Rogachover writes that the sexual identity of a tumtum who is operated on becomes established only at that point, and not retroactively.

However, this is disputed by the opinion expressed in the Tosafot Yevamot 83, s.v. "Beria...", which holds that the surgery merely reveals and elucidates that which was really there before, but hidden from our view.

12

 May 24, 2019 at 08:55 AM Anonymous Says:

SICK SICK. Transgender has a 40% suicide rate. These are not normal people.
and look who is helping them, A crazy government

13

 May 24, 2019 at 08:56 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

They are men whose brains tragically developed female. It is a sad disorder.

It is tragic. My husband was a rabbi in Miami Beach and this was a real issue.

14

 May 24, 2019 at 08:59 AM Anonymous Says:

If these transgenders really believe that they are females trapped in a man's body, then they should have the surgery to physically change to a female, as Private Manning (formerly of the U.S. Army), did.

15

 May 24, 2019 at 10:33 AM The_Truth Says:

What is the issue of men swimming with women? That the men would oogle them and get turned on by them etc?
If so, then both a women only pool, or a mens only pool / mikva has the same issues, from those who like those of the same gender. This is something difficult to find a halachic & practical solution for.
Is a lesbian is allowed in a halachicly women only pool and a gay man allowed in a mikva. It is extremely problematic, even before we get onto the trans subject.

16

 May 24, 2019 at 11:13 AM kibachabatochnu Says:

We always need to ask why does HASHEM cause things to happen. This situation is no exception. Frum women should not be swimming in a public place, go to the Y to swim or in a bungalow colony where you have control. If women are praised for not allowing the walls of her home to see her hair so you could see how far we have strayed. I'm married 17 years and my wife doesn't let me see her hair. That is the level we need to strive for because if we don't then we just go down and down and down.JEWS BE HOLY WE ARE SOON GOING TO THE CHUPA TO GET THE TORAH.

17

 May 24, 2019 at 11:20 AM Police Says:

Reply to #15  
The_Truth Says:

What is the issue of men swimming with women? That the men would oogle them and get turned on by them etc?
If so, then both a women only pool, or a mens only pool / mikva has the same issues, from those who like those of the same gender. This is something difficult to find a halachic & practical solution for.
Is a lesbian is allowed in a halachicly women only pool and a gay man allowed in a mikva. It is extremely problematic, even before we get onto the trans subject.

The halacha allows lesbians in womens' pool because she is a woman.

18

 May 24, 2019 at 11:19 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

Put them in a home.
Society doesn’t need to celebrate them. They are sick people.

Not helpful.

19

 May 24, 2019 at 12:21 PM Rabbi Says:

Reply to #16  
kibachabatochnu Says:

We always need to ask why does HASHEM cause things to happen. This situation is no exception. Frum women should not be swimming in a public place, go to the Y to swim or in a bungalow colony where you have control. If women are praised for not allowing the walls of her home to see her hair so you could see how far we have strayed. I'm married 17 years and my wife doesn't let me see her hair. That is the level we need to strive for because if we don't then we just go down and down and down.JEWS BE HOLY WE ARE SOON GOING TO THE CHUPA TO GET THE TORAH.

If your wife doesn't let you see her hair, I hate to break it to you, but she's just not into you, dude.

20

 May 24, 2019 at 01:31 PM Lister Says:

Reply to #19  
Rabbi Says:

If your wife doesn't let you see her hair, I hate to break it to you, but she's just not into you, dude.

A wife is required to allow her husband to see her hair. The reason it becomes ervah upon marriage is because to save it for her husband!

21

 May 24, 2019 at 01:38 PM Mr&Mrs; AmHaAretz Says:

Much outrage these days over “appropriation” - of dreadlocks, falafels, fashion, ethnicity, skin color - but not a peep over sex/gender-appropriation.

22

 May 24, 2019 at 02:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
yosher Says:

I, too, was a male captive in a woman's body.....but then my mother gave birth to me.

Wise a---.

23

 May 24, 2019 at 03:40 PM V Says:

Reply to #9  
commonsense99 Says:

what is someone brain makes them think that he is a dog, can he play in the dog park?

Then hashomer could find playmates with The same mentality and intelligence level as he has. Sorry, that was wrong. Dogs are so much smarter than he is.

24

 May 24, 2019 at 05:38 PM OLD YELLER Says:

Reply to #21  
Mr&Mrs; AmHaAretz Says:

Much outrage these days over “appropriation” - of dreadlocks, falafels, fashion, ethnicity, skin color - but not a peep over sex/gender-appropriation.

AN AM HAARETZ YOU CERTAINLY ARE.

25

 May 25, 2019 at 09:48 PM SammyPos Says:

Reply to #5  
yosher Says:

I, too, was a male captive in a woman's body.....but then my mother gave birth to me.

Nice one!

26

 May 25, 2019 at 09:50 PM hashomer Says:

Reply to #23  
V Says:

Then hashomer could find playmates with The same mentality and intelligence level as he has. Sorry, that was wrong. Dogs are so much smarter than he is.

Yet I'm not the one insulting others when it isn't even relevant to the topic.

27

 May 26, 2019 at 10:44 PM YehielKalish Says:

Orthodox Jews Protest Opening Of Men-only London Pond To Trans Swimmers

28

 May 26, 2019 at 11:48 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
kibachabatochnu Says:

We always need to ask why does HASHEM cause things to happen. This situation is no exception. Frum women should not be swimming in a public place, go to the Y to swim or in a bungalow colony where you have control. If women are praised for not allowing the walls of her home to see her hair so you could see how far we have strayed. I'm married 17 years and my wife doesn't let me see her hair. That is the level we need to strive for because if we don't then we just go down and down and down.JEWS BE HOLY WE ARE SOON GOING TO THE CHUPA TO GET THE TORAH.

You wife doesn't let you see hair.How sad -we all feel sorry for you However, don't put you or your wife's frum shtick on others. The rest of us normal people who see their wives hair, want them to also enjoy a swimming pool on hot days.

29

 May 28, 2019 at 10:17 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #24  
OLD YELLER Says:

AN AM HAARETZ YOU CERTAINLY ARE.

Why didn't you use the reply button, and practice what you preach!

30

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