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Jerusalem - Motty Steinmetz Backs Out Of Concert After Israeli Court Bans Sepatate Seating

Published on: August 11, 2019 02:30 PM
Last updated on: August 11, 2019 04:59 PM
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FILE - Ultra orthodox singer Motty Steinmetz performs during an event to raise money for Ultra Orthodox residents from Ramot Aleph, at the International Convention Center in Jerusalem. Photo by Yaakov Naumi/Flash90 FILE - Ultra orthodox singer Motty Steinmetz performs during an event to raise money for Ultra Orthodox residents from Ramot Aleph, at the International Convention Center in Jerusalem. Photo by Yaakov Naumi/Flash90

Jerusalem - Nazareth District Court Judge Jonathan Abraham sparked controversy on Sunday, when he ruled that no form of gender separation would be permitted at a Motty Steinmetz concert to be held at an Afula park this Wednesday.

The controversial ruling came after a petition was filed by the Women’s Lobby.

The Afula municipality initially supported the Charedi event, saying that out of hundreds of public events held in Afula, the Chareidim are entitled to hold one event according to their rules. However, it said it would ultimately respect the court’s ruling.

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The Nazareth court clarified, that the intent is not to prevent Chareidim at the event from seating themselves separate from the opposite gender. But rather to prevent anyone at the event from enforcing gender separation, be it in the form of signs, checkpoints etc.

In response to the court’s ruling, Motty Steinmetz has pulled out of the concert.

MK Moshe Gafni has called the court’s ruling “fitting for Tisha B’av, the day of destruction.”

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Read Comments (31)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Aug 11, 2019 at 03:06 PM Shlomie Says:

חזק ואמץ מוטי!

2

 Aug 11, 2019 at 03:41 PM alterknaker Says:

מהרסיך ומחרביך ממך יצאו
I feel sorry for the 240 oilim emigrating to Israel this week

3

 Aug 11, 2019 at 04:48 PM ShatzMatz Says:

Nisht Geferlich. The organizers can still sell tickets to the "red" section and the "blue" section. 99% of people will just voluntarily sit separately. I doubt the spiteful lefties will have the guts to buy tickets in the blue section And if they do it will backfire on them.

4

 Aug 11, 2019 at 05:13 PM HeshyEmes Says:

How pathetic! The Progressives have infected the United States and Israel. If the concert promoters makes an event for Chareidim with the understanding that there will be separate seating; what chutzpah does this "Women's Lobby" have to intervene? And the Judge clarifies that he's not forcing the audience to sit mixed; they can sit separately, but no signage nor directions nor enforcement of such. What a fair guy! I'm no Charedi fan, but this is real perverted!

5

 Aug 11, 2019 at 05:58 PM PureSatmar Says:

Stop crying Mr. Gafni, now that elections are nearing you and your colleagues will again be selling the same BS, that this is a Yiddishe Medina . . .

6

 Aug 11, 2019 at 06:25 PM Uberjude Says:

Reply to #4  
HeshyEmes Says:

How pathetic! The Progressives have infected the United States and Israel. If the concert promoters makes an event for Chareidim with the understanding that there will be separate seating; what chutzpah does this "Women's Lobby" have to intervene? And the Judge clarifies that he's not forcing the audience to sit mixed; they can sit separately, but no signage nor directions nor enforcement of such. What a fair guy! I'm no Charedi fan, but this is real perverted!

You miss an important point; Chareidim are free to have gender-segregated events, and have them all the time in shul. This involves a public park, and the notion that the public areas--paid for with taxes levied on the public--should be areas open to all, equally.

Equal treatment under the law is not "progressive," it is simply justice.

7

 Aug 11, 2019 at 06:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
HeshyEmes Says:

How pathetic! The Progressives have infected the United States and Israel. If the concert promoters makes an event for Chareidim with the understanding that there will be separate seating; what chutzpah does this "Women's Lobby" have to intervene? And the Judge clarifies that he's not forcing the audience to sit mixed; they can sit separately, but no signage nor directions nor enforcement of such. What a fair guy! I'm no Charedi fan, but this is real perverted!

Could not have said it better, myself

8

 Aug 11, 2019 at 06:53 PM judith Says:

Reply to #6  
Uberjude Says:

You miss an important point; Chareidim are free to have gender-segregated events, and have them all the time in shul. This involves a public park, and the notion that the public areas--paid for with taxes levied on the public--should be areas open to all, equally.

Equal treatment under the law is not "progressive," it is simply justice.

very well said

9

 Aug 11, 2019 at 06:56 PM fat36 Says:

Reply to #6  
Uberjude Says:

You miss an important point; Chareidim are free to have gender-segregated events, and have them all the time in shul. This involves a public park, and the notion that the public areas--paid for with taxes levied on the public--should be areas open to all, equally.

Equal treatment under the law is not "progressive," it is simply justice.

So the gays could have the parade on public property but if the religious people want to have their concerts that’s a problem.

10

 Aug 11, 2019 at 07:40 PM misslydia128 Says:

Reply to #9  
fat36 Says:

So the gays could have the parade on public property but if the religious people want to have their concerts that’s a problem.

If you can read the article , it says that they can have the concert and sit separately , if they wish . They just can’t enforce the segregation .

11

 Aug 11, 2019 at 08:10 PM hmmmm Says:

Motti, all of us in the US are so proud of you that you backed out, I’m sure it’s not easy for you. What a great kiddish Hashem on Tisha B’Av!!

12

 Aug 11, 2019 at 09:08 PM Torah Jew Says:

Im so proud of my fellow Jew and kudos to Motty for this big kidush Hashem.
It’s so unfortunate that the “Yidishe Medina” as they call themselves are prohibiting separate seating. They have fallen so low beyond the scope of any imagination.
These filthy Israeli Zionists are nothing short of despicable, spiting at all thats Torahdig. Feh!

13

 Aug 11, 2019 at 09:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
misslydia128 Says:

If you can read the article , it says that they can have the concert and sit separately , if they wish . They just can’t enforce the segregation .

U mean to say a kosher chazir foot.
So if the opposite gender wants to sit near me then theres no way I can ask him to leave.
I

14

 Aug 11, 2019 at 09:55 PM judith Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

U mean to say a kosher chazir foot.
So if the opposite gender wants to sit near me then theres no way I can ask him to leave.
I

That is correct. it's a public space

15

 Aug 11, 2019 at 11:57 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
ShatzMatz Says:

Nisht Geferlich. The organizers can still sell tickets to the "red" section and the "blue" section. 99% of people will just voluntarily sit separately. I doubt the spiteful lefties will have the guts to buy tickets in the blue section And if they do it will backfire on them.

That’s what you think! Those sick apikorsim do it l’hachis, just like the sick women of (off) the wall. Sickos. Feh.

16

 Aug 12, 2019 at 01:01 AM adar29 Says:

Reply to #6  
Uberjude Says:

You miss an important point; Chareidim are free to have gender-segregated events, and have them all the time in shul. This involves a public park, and the notion that the public areas--paid for with taxes levied on the public--should be areas open to all, equally.

Equal treatment under the law is not "progressive," it is simply justice.

Not so fast. It might be public and maintained with tax prayer monies but I'm sure the city it whatever entity has rented the park out for a hefty sum. So if you live in public housing can the court dictate mixed bedrooms for boys and girls? The entity renting the premises is the one with the saying unless specified otherwise in contract. In which case Haredim could have just said no thank you and keep their money

17

 Aug 12, 2019 at 03:18 AM lazy-boy Says:

discrimination against the religious public!

18

 Aug 12, 2019 at 08:25 AM Uberjude Says:

Reply to #9  
fat36 Says:

So the gays could have the parade on public property but if the religious people want to have their concerts that’s a problem.

Chareidim are just as free to hold non-gender segregated public events as gays. They can hold this concert in the park. Indeed, the city is not cancelling the concert. They are simply saying that it can't enforce segregation.

The concert can go on. Chareidim can sit wherever they want to sit. But if a woman wants to sit in the midst of a bunch of men, she can.

But if afula allows a segregated gay pride event, where men and women are required to sit separately, then you can talk about a double standard

19

 Aug 12, 2019 at 08:36 AM commonsense99 Says:

Kol havod Motty!

20

 Aug 12, 2019 at 10:28 AM georgeg Says:

Reply to #6  
Uberjude Says:

You miss an important point; Chareidim are free to have gender-segregated events, and have them all the time in shul. This involves a public park, and the notion that the public areas--paid for with taxes levied on the public--should be areas open to all, equally.

Equal treatment under the law is not "progressive," it is simply justice.

By your logic nothing could every be held on public land. How could there be a Santa Clause parade (in the United States) when such a parade prevents me from running my Chanukah parade at the exact same spot and exact same time? That is religious discrimination! Or perhaps, if one thinks properly about matters (instead of stupidly), the actual meaning of just-use of public space is that each concerned entity is apportioned their own time and place to run their own event their own way?

21

 Aug 12, 2019 at 01:50 PM LionofZion Says:

Good for the judge for not allowing made up Halacha.
This separate nonsense didn't exist until 30 years ago. Why should all Jews be expected to live by Satmar rules?

22

 Aug 12, 2019 at 02:13 PM kibachabatochnu Says:

BARUCH HASHEM it was canceled. Concerts are not approved by daas torah. The only exception is children concerts because it is educational for them and keeps them from going off the derech. Adults should open a gemara for inspiration or drop in a cd of your favorite lecturer. If tish abav taught us something it should be that we need to relax less and learn more how to improve our ways. There is no word for entertainment in loshon kodesh, for good reason. It's a goyish creation. Certainly music is good for our nerves but it could be heard in the privacy of our homes and cars. With our growth meechayil el choyil we will bring moshiach. AMEIN

23

 Aug 12, 2019 at 02:50 PM thegreatfixer Says:

feels like the Erev Rav

24

 Aug 12, 2019 at 04:46 PM Uberjude Says:

Reply to #16  
adar29 Says:

Not so fast. It might be public and maintained with tax prayer monies but I'm sure the city it whatever entity has rented the park out for a hefty sum. So if you live in public housing can the court dictate mixed bedrooms for boys and girls? The entity renting the premises is the one with the saying unless specified otherwise in contract. In which case Haredim could have just said no thank you and keep their money

1. You have introduced something for which there is no evidence presented, i.e., that this was "rented out for a hefty sum."
So are you conceding that if it were sponsored by the city, then the ruling is fair?

but let's follow the rest of your stream--contracts generally still have to follow the law. If the law prevents public spaces from discriminating based on gender, then any contract made with the city doesn't need to stipulate that, any more than it needs to stipulate that you're not allowed to violate any other law.

the city clearly acted in good faith, thinking that whatever it was doing was permitted, the court ruled otherwise.

the public housing analogy is irrelevant. By comparison, any Chareidi family that wants to choose to segregate by gender may do so, just like you may choose to allot separate rooms for boys and girls in your home. What would be more analogous would be the opposite, if the public housing authority told you that you had to maintain separate rooms, so that even if you wanted to let your boy/girl twins share a room, you wouldn't be allowed to.

Nobody is preventing Chareidim from going to a concert, but if the law bans gender segregation...

25

 Aug 12, 2019 at 05:00 PM Uberjude Says:

Reply to #20  
georgeg Says:

By your logic nothing could every be held on public land. How could there be a Santa Clause parade (in the United States) when such a parade prevents me from running my Chanukah parade at the exact same spot and exact same time? That is religious discrimination! Or perhaps, if one thinks properly about matters (instead of stupidly), the actual meaning of just-use of public space is that each concerned entity is apportioned their own time and place to run their own event their own way?

By my logic any number of things could be held on public land, as long as they don't discriminate based on race or gender or whatever other categories there are. There is a big difference between scheduling issues and discrimination--NYC has lots of parades, and they figure out schedules, no problem. Just use does not allow each entity to make use of public space to run events their own way. They still have to follow the law.

Thus a Christmas concert in Central Park can't ban Jews, and a Hanukkah concert can't ban Christians. Neither of them can ban blacks. Because that would be illegal.

Let's be clearer--you can have an organization which is just for Jewish members, or Christian members--all the people marching in the parade or performing concert can belong to a particular group. But you can't exclude or segregate based on gender, race, religion, national origin or what have you in terms of the audience.

You might call it "thinking stupidly;" The US government calls it Title III of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Banning discrimination in public accommodation. Please look it up.

Don't know what the Israeli equivalent is, but clearly it exists.

26

 Aug 12, 2019 at 05:10 PM Uberjude Says:

Reply to #22  
kibachabatochnu Says:

BARUCH HASHEM it was canceled. Concerts are not approved by daas torah. The only exception is children concerts because it is educational for them and keeps them from going off the derech. Adults should open a gemara for inspiration or drop in a cd of your favorite lecturer. If tish abav taught us something it should be that we need to relax less and learn more how to improve our ways. There is no word for entertainment in loshon kodesh, for good reason. It's a goyish creation. Certainly music is good for our nerves but it could be heard in the privacy of our homes and cars. With our growth meechayil el choyil we will bring moshiach. AMEIN

Actually, if Tisha B'av taught us anything, it's that we should work on controlling our sinas chinam, which, if I recall correctly, was why the Second Temple was destroyed.

Of course, one of the great things about the yetser haro is that it makes us think that what we are doing is right, so that when we call people apikorsim or the Erev Rav, we feel like we're doing a big mitzva instead of engaging in sinas chinam (hint--I'm betting the yidn in the time of the Bayis Sheini felt the same way).

And there is no evidence that "entertainment" is a "goyish creation." In the talmud, (Taanis, 22A), Eliyahu Hanavi singles out two badchanim (that's loshon koydesh for you) who earn their place in the world to come because they make sad people happy and when they see people quarreling, they try to make peace.

And from that context, it's clear that they are not just wedding performers. And pretty sure in koheles there are references to singers. So--singers, jesters, certainly dancing--it all sounds pretty entertaining to me.

27

 Aug 12, 2019 at 05:43 PM FactsRule Says:

In a free country people should be able to rent a space in a public park to use in the way they want, including sitting separately in a crowd for religious reasons. Israel still has problems enforcing the state's original status quo on religious things. For far more on Israel's political system, the worst in the western world, read the book by Prof. Paul Eidelberg, an observant Jew very knowledgeable in Judaism & world history. And, an expert in political science, Jewish Statesmanship: Lest Israel Fall.
He included in the back of the book a Jewish-based constitution acceptable to religious and secular people. Unfortunately, one of the worst things about Israel's horribly poor political system is it's self-perpetuating. So, the genius of Prof. Eidelberg's ideas has never spread to the country at large to effect the amazing changes it would.

28

 Aug 12, 2019 at 05:56 PM Uberjude Says:

Reply to #22  
kibachabatochnu Says:

BARUCH HASHEM it was canceled. Concerts are not approved by daas torah. The only exception is children concerts because it is educational for them and keeps them from going off the derech. Adults should open a gemara for inspiration or drop in a cd of your favorite lecturer. If tish abav taught us something it should be that we need to relax less and learn more how to improve our ways. There is no word for entertainment in loshon kodesh, for good reason. It's a goyish creation. Certainly music is good for our nerves but it could be heard in the privacy of our homes and cars. With our growth meechayil el choyil we will bring moshiach. AMEIN

I would also add that you perhaps err in stating that this no word for entertainment in loshon kodosh. If, by loshon kodosh, you mean simply the actual words of the Tanach, you may be right.

If you mean the loshon spoken by B'nai Yisroel, you are almost certainly wrong. Tanach is not a dictionary, nor is it supposed to be. Bnai Yisroel they had a day-to-day language, and specialized jargons, like any people, that wouldn't have appeared in Tanach.

I don't know, for example, that there's a word in Tanach of the uvula, or epilepsy, or crankiness, or a wide variety of tools and animals and nuanced feelings, and so on. It would seem a bit odd to assume that they had no word for those things in their regular loshon. It would seem even odder to assume that because we may not know the ancient Hebrew word for "cranky" (as opposed to angry), that therefore, nobody in Bnai Yisroel was ever a bit out of sorts when they didn't get enough sleep, or that "crankiness" is a "goyish creation."

Of course, I concede someone may know that word, but I think one gets the point.

29

 Aug 12, 2019 at 06:21 PM Uberjude Says:

Reply to #27  
FactsRule Says:

In a free country people should be able to rent a space in a public park to use in the way they want, including sitting separately in a crowd for religious reasons. Israel still has problems enforcing the state's original status quo on religious things. For far more on Israel's political system, the worst in the western world, read the book by Prof. Paul Eidelberg, an observant Jew very knowledgeable in Judaism & world history. And, an expert in political science, Jewish Statesmanship: Lest Israel Fall.
He included in the back of the book a Jewish-based constitution acceptable to religious and secular people. Unfortunately, one of the worst things about Israel's horribly poor political system is it's self-perpetuating. So, the genius of Prof. Eidelberg's ideas has never spread to the country at large to effect the amazing changes it would.

first of all, from what I've seen, this is not a private event; nobody is renting the space. Rather, it is a public concert held by the Municipality of Afula, which is the entity that was involved in the suit. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd be happy to consider it.

Secondly, I would argue that in a free country, people should be free to sit where they want to in a public park. If somebody held an event in Central Park and announced that Jews were forbidden, or restricted to a certain area, everybody defending the Chareidim in this case would be justifiably outraged and demand legal intervention. Which they would get, because it's not just discriminatory, it's illegal.

and I don't know what the law is in Israel, but apparently, there are similarities.

and nobody is preventing Charedim from sitting where they want to sit. If they want to agree beforehand that women sit in the last twenty rows, and men sit in the first twenty rows, anybody who wants to follow that rule is free to do. What they can't do is tell somebody who doesn't want to follow that rule where to sit. Because, in a free country, women and Jews and blacks and you name it can sit where they want.

31

 Aug 12, 2019 at 07:47 PM judith Says:

Reply to #25  
Uberjude Says:

By my logic any number of things could be held on public land, as long as they don't discriminate based on race or gender or whatever other categories there are. There is a big difference between scheduling issues and discrimination--NYC has lots of parades, and they figure out schedules, no problem. Just use does not allow each entity to make use of public space to run events their own way. They still have to follow the law.

Thus a Christmas concert in Central Park can't ban Jews, and a Hanukkah concert can't ban Christians. Neither of them can ban blacks. Because that would be illegal.

Let's be clearer--you can have an organization which is just for Jewish members, or Christian members--all the people marching in the parade or performing concert can belong to a particular group. But you can't exclude or segregate based on gender, race, religion, national origin or what have you in terms of the audience.

You might call it "thinking stupidly;" The US government calls it Title III of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Banning discrimination in public accommodation. Please look it up.

Don't know what the Israeli equivalent is, but clearly it exists.

There are many people on this site that don't have any regard for civil rights laws in Israel. That's the disagreemnt.

32

 Aug 12, 2019 at 08:48 PM Uberjude Says:

Reply to #31  
judith Says:

There are many people on this site that don't have any regard for civil rights laws in Israel. That's the disagreemnt.

Or in the US, I imagine, but as the late, great Daniel Patrick Moynihan said, Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, not to his own facts.

It may be an opinion that civil rights laws in Israel or the US shouldn't exist.

It is a fact that they do.

Everything else is commentary.

33

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