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Borough Park, NY - Spinka Rabbi Pleads Guilty

Published on: July 13, 2009 04:33 PM
By: AP
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Borough Park, NY - The head of an Orthodox Jewish group has agreed to plead guilty to a conspiracy charge stemming from what prosecutors say was a decade-long tax fraud and money laundering scheme.

Naftali Tzi Weisz could face up to five years in prison after signing a plea agreement last week that is contingent on other co-defendants also pleading guilty to various charges.

An e-mail message left for Weisz’s attorneys was not immediately returned Monday.

Prosecutors say Weisz and others helped donors avoid paying federal income taxes by having them make contributions to charitable groups run by Spinka, a New York-based Orthodox Jewish group led by Weisz.

U.S. attorney spokesman Thom Mrozek says an agreement with the charitable organizations is almost finished.



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Read Comments (59)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Jul 13, 2009 at 03:41 PM Help Says:

lets hope he gets house arrest instead

2

 Jul 13, 2009 at 03:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Kudos for him. There are so many people getting caut and sentence to prison for pocketing for themselves mony. This person worked day and night to support others and didn't care for himself. I wish for me such a "zchus"

3

 Jul 13, 2009 at 03:53 PM Anonymous Says:

In the case of Uncle Sam vs. the Spinka Rebbe, its a total knock-out.

4

 Jul 13, 2009 at 03:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

Kudos for him. There are so many people getting caut and sentence to prison for pocketing for themselves mony. This person worked day and night to support others and didn't care for himself. I wish for me such a "zchus"

The ends don't justify the means.

5

 Jul 13, 2009 at 03:54 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

Kudos for him. There are so many people getting caut and sentence to prison for pocketing for themselves mony. This person worked day and night to support others and didn't care for himself. I wish for me such a "zchus"

Really, how much of a moron are you? The best you can say is "kudos" to a man pleading guilty in Federal Court? Are you proud of him? This case was all about PERSONAL PROFIT you idiot.

6

 Jul 13, 2009 at 03:54 PM spinkar chossid Says:

as a spinker chossid all i have to say is that hes a real tzaddick he has a full talmod torah yeshiva kollel where he gives hi,self away for others hundreds of parents get away with no schar limud because the rabbi is such a tzaddick lets all daven that the rabbi has a yesho min hasomayim he deserves our tefilos

7

 Jul 13, 2009 at 04:30 PM avremele Says:

FYI, The Rebbe never pocketed any money for himself. Have you seen how he lives??? Have you seen his shmatte house???

8

 Jul 13, 2009 at 04:38 PM a veitug Says:

Regardless of his sins we are not one to judge for what reason he did it or if it is justified or not all we as yidden need to care is another yid another rebbe has the possibility of heading to prison anytime soon and we need to pray the best for him

Now to all the self-declared G-D cops: go get a life!!!!

9

 Jul 13, 2009 at 04:30 PM Anonymous Says:


Dear fellow Jews this Holy Man is going to the Slammer because he doesn't want to bo ovar on miserah if he should just talk what the prosicuter wants he would walk a free Man.

We sould all go out of our way and help that the Spinka School System should be able to stay open and learn with our children the way the Rebbi wanted.

10

 Jul 13, 2009 at 04:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:


Dear fellow Jews this Holy Man is going to the Slammer because he doesn't want to bo ovar on miserah if he should just talk what the prosicuter wants he would walk a free Man.

We sould all go out of our way and help that the Spinka School System should be able to stay open and learn with our children the way the Rebbi wanted.

This is not a case of mesirah. All of the defendants were caught on wire taps. None of them had to be moiser on any other defendant. All of the defendants are perfectly known to the Feds by virtue of their involvement in the case. The Spinka Rebbe doesn't have to reveal any additional facts to the prosecutor because he already spilled the beans quite plainly in the wire taps.
The Spinka Rebbe copped a plea to avoid a LENGTHIER jail sentence; there was never any chance of him walking free because he was the mastermind behind the conspiracy.

11

 Jul 13, 2009 at 06:18 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

The ends don't justify the means.

Why not? What was wrong with the means? Does the government deserve the level of taxes it takes?

12

 Jul 13, 2009 at 06:58 PM Kol-Mevaser Says:

In Zchus of the Lomdei Torah in Spinka Kolel in BP - 1 of the biggest and well know - should he be released, or Atleast judge should "MIT RACHMUNOS" !!.
But in the meantime we gotta pray and be mispalal for him . V'lshem Hoshiue .

13

 Jul 13, 2009 at 06:32 PM LMAN HEMES Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

This is not a case of mesirah. All of the defendants were caught on wire taps. None of them had to be moiser on any other defendant. All of the defendants are perfectly known to the Feds by virtue of their involvement in the case. The Spinka Rebbe doesn't have to reveal any additional facts to the prosecutor because he already spilled the beans quite plainly in the wire taps.
The Spinka Rebbe copped a plea to avoid a LENGTHIER jail sentence; there was never any chance of him walking free because he was the mastermind behind the conspiracy.

let me clear some facts for you anonymos....
spinka rabbi couldve massered and he didnt the wire taps couldnt be used because of illigal interfering without a court approval so that was thrown out and the fact is that the rabbi couldve done a lot of damage for others while setting himself an easier sentence which he didnt do .due to ahavas yisroel so show some yourself and start acting like a jew and instead of attacking this holy man go take a tehillim and pray for him

14

 Jul 13, 2009 at 06:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

This is not a case of mesirah. All of the defendants were caught on wire taps. None of them had to be moiser on any other defendant. All of the defendants are perfectly known to the Feds by virtue of their involvement in the case. The Spinka Rebbe doesn't have to reveal any additional facts to the prosecutor because he already spilled the beans quite plainly in the wire taps.
The Spinka Rebbe copped a plea to avoid a LENGTHIER jail sentence; there was never any chance of him walking free because he was the mastermind behind the conspiracy.

they never had the rebbe on wire tap

15

 Jul 13, 2009 at 07:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

This is not a case of mesirah. All of the defendants were caught on wire taps. None of them had to be moiser on any other defendant. All of the defendants are perfectly known to the Feds by virtue of their involvement in the case. The Spinka Rebbe doesn't have to reveal any additional facts to the prosecutor because he already spilled the beans quite plainly in the wire taps.
The Spinka Rebbe copped a plea to avoid a LENGTHIER jail sentence; there was never any chance of him walking free because he was the mastermind behind the conspiracy.

I would love to know your source of info. You just made that up, I know and when it is all said and done, everyone will know. The Rebbe is taking a lot of heat to do the right thing, he clearly lost his sense of priorities but this was never about personal gain. More information will come out as this comes to an end and I expect to see a retraction and apology from "Anonymus #10"

16

 Jul 13, 2009 at 07:08 PM Dag Says:

Reply to #11  
Milhouse Says:

Why not? What was wrong with the means? Does the government deserve the level of taxes it takes?

Is that a serious argument or a joke?

17

 Jul 13, 2009 at 07:15 PM reality check Says:

Lets all understand for once and for all THE END DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS. You cant steal and then give it to the poor chasidim. Nothing justifies the Rebbe being involved in this fraud and causing such a huge chillul hashem. What kind of example is he of a "REBBE" or for that matter an erlich yid????

18

 Jul 13, 2009 at 08:16 PM Sam Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

The ends don't justify the means.

I agree with you 100% that even when intended for others, fraud is not only wrong, but criminal. My only disagreement is your usage of the popular cliche, "The ends don't justify the means." Sometimes the ends do justify the means. For example, chemotherapy is a "means". For the "ends" of destroying cancer r"l, the "means" of chemotherapy are justified. For someone without cancer, the "means" of chemotherapy would not be justified, as there is no "ends". Hence, at times, the ends do justify the means. Again, my quible is semantic. Regarding the issue in the article, we are in agreement.

19

 Jul 13, 2009 at 08:13 PM once upon a chossid Says:

Reb Yochanon Gordon a"h once told the Frierdike Rebbe the following. In Russia the seder was that to sit once was considered a chiyuv. To sit twice was considered a hidur. To sit three times was mechzi keyohora. The Frierdike Rebbe liked that vort very much. (although the Rebbe himself sat 7 times, mechzi keyohora doesn't apply to tzadikim, as it is written in mesechta brochos).

20

 Jul 13, 2009 at 08:09 PM Anonymous Says:

I'm not a spinka chasid but I heard a lot about him.
He's a very erlicher yid and helped yidden all over. He has a huge budget to cover and let the goverment try to prosecute a catholic priest for those sins. Don't forget every time you give tzedaka and ask for change ure a criminal.

Now, I'd like to debate the stance of this case. If someone gives tzedaka to a charity and the collector gets 75% of it for commission, is that a crime? It might be a crime for the person who didn't report the 75% for tax but the cong. Did anything wrong with giving a receipt for the 100%???
Why is this different?

21

 Jul 13, 2009 at 07:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Your posts are occasionally rational but in this case you are acting like a true am hypocrite and am ha'ortez. Yes. The government is entitled to impose whatever tax level that it may legally enact and yidden are obligated to pay those taxes like any other individuals who are subject to the tax code. No, the ends don't justify the means under U.S. tax law any more so than they do under halacha. What would you say if I sold cheap treife meat as "glatt" and then used half my ill-gotten profits to sustain some poor yeshiva bochurim at the kollel?

22

 Jul 13, 2009 at 09:03 PM shmuel Says:

Reply to #11  
Milhouse Says:

Why not? What was wrong with the means? Does the government deserve the level of taxes it takes?

the rabbi is lucky you are not defending him nor arguing his case for leniancy...i dont think most federal judges would accept your argument here...
lets pray things work out for all involved......
as a community we need to promulgate "kiddush hashem"
jewish leaders need to be just that leaders and role models.

23

 Jul 13, 2009 at 09:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
LMAN HEMES Says:

let me clear some facts for you anonymos....
spinka rabbi couldve massered and he didnt the wire taps couldnt be used because of illigal interfering without a court approval so that was thrown out and the fact is that the rabbi couldve done a lot of damage for others while setting himself an easier sentence which he didnt do .due to ahavas yisroel so show some yourself and start acting like a jew and instead of attacking this holy man go take a tehillim and pray for him

First of all, if he really was a holy man, he would have continued to plead not guilty like he originally pled in 2008 and he would have relied on HaKadosh Baruch Hu to exonerate him. Secondly, he COPPED A PLEA of GUILTY because it helped him avoid a lengthy, expensive trial and a longer jail sentence, so he is now admitting his culpability.

The wire taps were never thrown out. Stop making up LIES. Do you think the U.S. Attorney is so stupid as to make such an idiot of himself by not having the necessary court orders?

24

 Jul 13, 2009 at 09:31 PM monsey Says:

Reply to #13  
LMAN HEMES Says:

let me clear some facts for you anonymos....
spinka rabbi couldve massered and he didnt the wire taps couldnt be used because of illigal interfering without a court approval so that was thrown out and the fact is that the rabbi couldve done a lot of damage for others while setting himself an easier sentence which he didnt do .due to ahavas yisroel so show some yourself and start acting like a jew and instead of attacking this holy man go take a tehillim and pray for him

Very true!
How about the other "rebbe" that sent his chasidim in jail to avoid being jailed himself?
At least he REALLY CARES for his chasidim. Much more so than for himself.

26

 Jul 13, 2009 at 08:32 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Anonymous Says:

they never had the rebbe on wire tap

Why would they need a wire, when each transaction had to be transacted via a bank to be able to take a chartable deduction, it should not be hard for the IRS to follow the money.

27

 Jul 13, 2009 at 07:57 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
Milhouse Says:

Why not? What was wrong with the means? Does the government deserve the level of taxes it takes?

A Yid is supposed to be a "light" to the goyim. If this behavior is the "light" we are showing, you fill in the blanks.

28

 Jul 13, 2009 at 07:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Anonymous Says:

they never had the rebbe on wire tap

Stating a falsehood (that the Rebbe was not on wire taps) with total conviction does not make it true. This does not change the facts: the transcripts of the wire taps have been on the web for almost 2 years.

29

 Jul 13, 2009 at 07:53 PM Emes Vyatziv Says:

Known to me from first hand, and by reading the plea agreement.

1. The deal is binding on the judge for not more then 36 mos. not five years the way it is written here.
2. The Spinka Rebbe was offered all along by the prosecuter, that if he will only wink to the feds who the donors are, he will be off the hook completely. {Because they are after the real Ganuvim who witheld all this money from the Govt. not after the Rebbe with his shleppers who never had to pay any taxes and in the end stayed with only 5% of money and used it for the moisdes, and dont have the ability to pay} So for the sake of all the hundreds of Yiden that with a little wink to the Govt, he could have been spared this whole thing, he instead went with Mesiras Nefesh and pled quilty with a risk of jail time. So Kol Hakuved Loi. Let us all pray that the judge should see who are the crooks and who the righteous are and give him only house arrest.

30

 Jul 13, 2009 at 07:45 PM seen it all Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

This is not a case of mesirah. All of the defendants were caught on wire taps. None of them had to be moiser on any other defendant. All of the defendants are perfectly known to the Feds by virtue of their involvement in the case. The Spinka Rebbe doesn't have to reveal any additional facts to the prosecutor because he already spilled the beans quite plainly in the wire taps.
The Spinka Rebbe copped a plea to avoid a LENGTHIER jail sentence; there was never any chance of him walking free because he was the mastermind behind the conspiracy.

You just proved the vort, "Dee vos vaisen reden night, un di vos reden vaisen nisht" (Those that know don't talk, and those that talk don't know).

This was a pure mesirah on the part of a menuval who to save his own skin from sitting 20 years for fraud and ripping off a publicly traded company, offered to the US attorney the spinka story and then set up wiretaps. Since his father A"H was very involved, he was able to set up everyone else to take the fall. He should have a misah meshunah if he doesn't publicly do tshuvah for what he did. He is an oisvorf who would throw his family under the bus to save his skin.

31

 Jul 13, 2009 at 10:04 PM Litvisher Says:

Reply to #29  
Emes Vyatziv Says:

Known to me from first hand, and by reading the plea agreement.

1. The deal is binding on the judge for not more then 36 mos. not five years the way it is written here.
2. The Spinka Rebbe was offered all along by the prosecuter, that if he will only wink to the feds who the donors are, he will be off the hook completely. {Because they are after the real Ganuvim who witheld all this money from the Govt. not after the Rebbe with his shleppers who never had to pay any taxes and in the end stayed with only 5% of money and used it for the moisdes, and dont have the ability to pay} So for the sake of all the hundreds of Yiden that with a little wink to the Govt, he could have been spared this whole thing, he instead went with Mesiras Nefesh and pled quilty with a risk of jail time. So Kol Hakuved Loi. Let us all pray that the judge should see who are the crooks and who the righteous are and give him only house arrest.

You bring out a gevaldige point that I once heard from Rav Kotler ZT"L that all these Gevirim are "Usid Liten As Hadin" since all the Yeshives would be a lot more happy to get regular donations without any strings attached. And if the gevirim whould really give charity the way they claim they are, then ALL MOISDOIS HATORAH would have no problem to exist B'shleimes U"bekuvod.
But instead the gevirim choke the Roshei Hayeshives by telling them that I am not giving you $1,000.00 straight, only if I give you 10K and you return 9K, so they have no option, and fall for this.

In short - with the Blik of a Daas Torah. The gevirim are the ones that are benefiting from this, far more then the Yeshivas, and THEY ARE DEFRAUDING the U.S.

I wonder how come for such great business deals that they make, they are always credited as such big Ballei Tzedaka?

32

 Jul 14, 2009 at 04:37 AM Doniels Says:

Hashem's name is EMES - and any deviation from EMES will eventually backfire.

And the means do NOT justify the ends with some rare exceptions like Pikuach Nefesh.

Thanks to some moe frum Yidden for tarnishing our name even further.

33

 Jul 13, 2009 at 11:54 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #22  
shmuel Says:

the rabbi is lucky you are not defending him nor arguing his case for leniancy...i dont think most federal judges would accept your argument here...
lets pray things work out for all involved......
as a community we need to promulgate "kiddush hashem"
jewish leaders need to be just that leaders and role models.

I'm not arguing to a judge. I'm arguing right and wrong. The judges are hired by the government and get paid from the tax revenues, so of course they want to maximise them; that doesn't make it right.

34

 Jul 13, 2009 at 11:46 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #21  
Anonymous Says:

Your posts are occasionally rational but in this case you are acting like a true am hypocrite and am ha'ortez. Yes. The government is entitled to impose whatever tax level that it may legally enact and yidden are obligated to pay those taxes like any other individuals who are subject to the tax code. No, the ends don't justify the means under U.S. tax law any more so than they do under halacha. What would you say if I sold cheap treife meat as "glatt" and then used half my ill-gotten profits to sustain some poor yeshiva bochurim at the kollel?

What entitles the government to take all that money from people? What principle of halacha or ethics entitles a government to take 30, 40, 50% of someone's income and give it to other people? It is pure theft. The government is merely the agent of the majority (made up of welfare recipients and public servants) who voted for it. If all those people would conspire together to waylay you and rifle your pockets, they would be thieves; how is it different if they have their agent do it for them?

35

 Jul 13, 2009 at 11:43 PM Use Your Head Says:

Reply to #11  
Milhouse Says:

Why not? What was wrong with the means? Does the government deserve the level of taxes it takes?

In a democratic country, yes.

36

 Jul 13, 2009 at 11:34 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #16  
Dag Says:

Is that a serious argument or a joke?

It's a serious argument. I don't think he did anything wrong, and the end certainly justified the means.

37

 Jul 13, 2009 at 10:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Raboisai ! It would be in all our interests not to leave this topic alone as most of the writers here do not know all the facts, as neither do I. This really can spread chilul Hashem greater than already by the episode itself. None of u are helping klal yisroel by your further discussion of this shameful occurrence in our community.
What I do know is that when Federal Prosecutors have people (in this case Heimishe people ) as witnesses for the prosecutors and further setting up the Rebbe and his Chassidim, THERE IS NO WAY OUT!!!!! The law was broken regardless of the intent and the FEDS had the goods for their case even if the rebbe did it for his Yeshiva, etc. etc, Torah, etc etc.
What happened here was that people do not realize the the Federal Govt will work with u if u make a deal immediately acknowledging your crime. This did not happen here and after Millions spent on attorneys (or whatever the sum was) Uncle Sam got the same if not better terms than an immediate plea workout for the benefit of the Rebbe in this situation. The Moiser (regardless of the wrongness of the Rebbes crime!)_himself did this for a plea deal and for that the BAIS DIN SHEL MAALOH will repay him and his children for this crime against the Rebbe.
It is a separate issue.

38

 Jul 13, 2009 at 10:43 PM abe Says:

i know the rebbe for over 40 years he is the most giving and selfless person i have ever met i could write a book from all the tovos that he did for people people that never davened in his shul or sent kids to his yeshiva its a fact that the gov prosecutor offfered a very sweet deal if he would talk he would rather sit before he would uther 1word about anyone this roshe R.K. TALKED IT INTO THE GOV THAT THE REBBE IS SOME MAJOR LAUNDERER CHAS VESHULEM and in the end the gov saw that R.K IS A LIAR AND KANIVER I HOPPE THIS ROSHE ROTS IN JAIL BEFORE HIS MESIRA HE HAD A SENTENCE WAITING FOR HIM 130 YEARS MAYBE NOW HE WILL GET INSTEAD 50 YEARS AND ROT BECAUSE CHAZAL SAY WHAT YOU WISH ONTO SOMEONE ELSE YOU GET IN THE END may hashem shine his light and his grace upon the spinka rebbe and his family there is no better
people than the rebbe and his rebetzin and there wonderful children i think about them and love them like they were my children and love the rebbe like he was my brother we should all be mispalel for NAFTOLI TZVI BEN PERL FOR YESHUA
AND TOTAL FREEDOM UMEN KEN YEHI ROTZON

39

 Jul 13, 2009 at 09:40 PM Five Towns Resident Says:

Taking ill-gotten gains and distributing it among the poor doesn't make one a tzaddik, it makes one a money launderer or worse.

If the Spinka broke the law, he should go to jail. Period.

Oh, and by the way, did the Spinka Rebbe ever stop to think what kind of CHILUL HASHEM he would cause if he got caught? Especially in the Bernie Madoff era?

40

 Jul 14, 2009 at 07:36 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #39  
Five Towns Resident Says:

Taking ill-gotten gains and distributing it among the poor doesn't make one a tzaddik, it makes one a money launderer or worse.

If the Spinka broke the law, he should go to jail. Period.

Oh, and by the way, did the Spinka Rebbe ever stop to think what kind of CHILUL HASHEM he would cause if he got caught? Especially in the Bernie Madoff era?

I would love to see your tax returns!

41

 Jul 14, 2009 at 08:07 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #40  
Anonymous Says:

I would love to see your tax returns!

We should just learn to ignore the hard core of posters (Millhouse and the gang) who will jump to the defense of any dreche yid who commits any crime and say ther only crime was that they were caught, the law itself was immoral, everyone else does it, the prosecutor was an antisemite, etc. In this open environment, there will be challenged peopole who post and we need to get beyond them.

42

 Jul 14, 2009 at 08:05 AM truebeliever Says:

This is reply to ALL- the only truth is that it was done our roll as ovdae hashem is to learn from others and not to pass judgment- the leasson here is vehayesah nekiym (be clean- meanig in this case of suspition) when we approch a cituation like this we need to think what would others think - hatzlacha to all

43

 Jul 14, 2009 at 08:51 AM avraham david Says:

America is just another Mitzrayim at the end of the day we will all be crying to Hashem to save us. Remember , America is a friend of no one . America is a country with so many rules and regulations that they can literraly put any one away. It is not a free country at all. It is a real golus. There are more people behind bars in America than any other country in the world. Let us all pray for Meshiach bimheirah byameinu Amen

44

 Jul 14, 2009 at 09:39 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

Really, how much of a moron are you? The best you can say is "kudos" to a man pleading guilty in Federal Court? Are you proud of him? This case was all about PERSONAL PROFIT you idiot.

You must be a gig Tzadik. Everything you do i 100% kosher. I do not envy you at all. The Spinka Rebbe is a wonderful man lives very simple & is alwaus there to help a fellow jew.regardless how the jew looks Can not say the same about you.

45

 Jul 14, 2009 at 10:25 AM Ehrlicher Yid Says:

I think that the less we get into details and into who is right and who is wrong, the less chillul hashem we are creating. as I know for a fact that there are all types of people reading our comments here, V'Hameivin Yuvin.

But one thing is for sure regarding the Spinka Rebbe. If G-d forbid he will have to end up in jail this would be a Tzuras Rabim Mamash. Because he himself will go in and go out and be mamshich his life as before {hopefully}, but all those innocent people that he is constantly helping out and coaching and mentoring them with monetary and moral support will be nebech left devastetated. His whole day is filled with helping people in Shulim Bais, Money, Medical connections, finding jobs, finding yeshives, children at risk, etc. you name it. besides what he does in his Moisdes, all these people will suffer a lot more then him.

We need to daven for the sake of Klal Yisroel and for the sake of the chilul hashem, that he should go out of this with the least possible harm for the Klal, and the Moisdes, and the entire Brooklyn community.

46

 Jul 14, 2009 at 12:07 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #35  
Use Your Head Says:

In a democratic country, yes.

Now you've really piqued my curiosity. Why would it make a difference whether a country is democratic or not? Why is the agent of a majority of voters entitled to more of my money than a king would be? Neither the voters nor the king earned it; the voters aren't giving me more for it than the king did; so what entitles them to take it?

47

 Jul 14, 2009 at 12:20 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #41  
Anonymous Says:

We should just learn to ignore the hard core of posters (Millhouse and the gang) who will jump to the defense of any dreche yid who commits any crime and say ther only crime was that they were caught, the law itself was immoral, everyone else does it, the prosecutor was an antisemite, etc. In this open environment, there will be challenged peopole who post and we need to get beyond them.

Maybe we should ignore the one poster who thinks "dreche" is a word, and loves using it of erliche yidden who follow the torah and do nothing wrong, but don't conform to his goyishe values. We are OBLIGATED to take the side of our fellow yidden; but to you a yid and a goy are the same, and we must all worship Congress instead of the Torah. The prosecutor isn't an antisemite, you are.

48

 Jul 14, 2009 at 01:28 PM poss nisht milhaus Says:

Reply to #47  
Milhouse Says:

Maybe we should ignore the one poster who thinks "dreche" is a word, and loves using it of erliche yidden who follow the torah and do nothing wrong, but don't conform to his goyishe values. We are OBLIGATED to take the side of our fellow yidden; but to you a yid and a goy are the same, and we must all worship Congress instead of the Torah. The prosecutor isn't an antisemite, you are.

milhaus u've let me down. i've followed u from my bathroom palm excursins for a few months that i've spent on vin and u're usually on target. I belive even the spinker would say that this was wrong. dina dmallchusa dina is still applicabl in this country regardless if u like the tax laws or not(rav belsky as well as any posek i've ever heard agree) I don't know how much the rebbe knew I hop not too much and certainly regardless don't believe justice will be served by putting him away. I can't even imagine the trerin he shed over this chilul hashem which it is that came al yado.
but don't justify it. milhaus. it doesn't poss for u. the last thing w need is more chiluli hashem and anti semitism as a result of misuided jews advoxating your position

49

 Jul 14, 2009 at 11:23 AM CPA Says:

to #20. It is not illegal to get change. It is illegal to take the change as a deduction or to leave the change on the receipt.

50

 Jul 14, 2009 at 02:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #45  
Ehrlicher Yid Says:

I think that the less we get into details and into who is right and who is wrong, the less chillul hashem we are creating. as I know for a fact that there are all types of people reading our comments here, V'Hameivin Yuvin.

But one thing is for sure regarding the Spinka Rebbe. If G-d forbid he will have to end up in jail this would be a Tzuras Rabim Mamash. Because he himself will go in and go out and be mamshich his life as before {hopefully}, but all those innocent people that he is constantly helping out and coaching and mentoring them with monetary and moral support will be nebech left devastetated. His whole day is filled with helping people in Shulim Bais, Money, Medical connections, finding jobs, finding yeshives, children at risk, etc. you name it. besides what he does in his Moisdes, all these people will suffer a lot more then him.

We need to daven for the sake of Klal Yisroel and for the sake of the chilul hashem, that he should go out of this with the least possible harm for the Klal, and the Moisdes, and the entire Brooklyn community.

You have spoken so correctly and eloquently. Regardless of him being right or wrong, there are few people who fill the role of a "rabim zurichin loi" as The Spinka Rebbe does. A yeshua for him would mean a yeshua for the entire community as well as for the Shechina Hakdoisheh.

51

 Jul 14, 2009 at 03:49 PM yeracmiel Says:

kudos to the rebbe and may there be many more like him in klal yisroel who build mosdod kedoshim

52

 Jul 14, 2009 at 04:37 PM Anonymous Says:

The government is NOT "them"; it is "us": "...government of the people, by the people, for the people". If you don't recognize that quote, something is SERIOUSLY wrong with your education.

53

 Jul 14, 2009 at 05:48 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #52  
Anonymous Says:

The government is NOT "them"; it is "us": "...government of the people, by the people, for the people". If you don't recognize that quote, something is SERIOUSLY wrong with your education.

Spoken by the tyrant who tore up the bill of rights. The state is our enemy.

54

 Jul 14, 2009 at 06:09 PM Expatriate Owl Says:

Reply to #14  
Anonymous Says:

they never had the rebbe on wire tap


#14 says, "they never had the rebbe on wire tap."

Oh, yes they did!!

The Affidavit for the Search Warrant DOES give specific instances of the Spinka Rebbe being recorded on tape. Check out the Affidavit, Paragraphs 118, 119, 126, 127 and 141. More complete tape transcripts are also available.

55

 Jul 14, 2009 at 08:03 PM CPA Says:

Reply to #20  
Anonymous Says:

I'm not a spinka chasid but I heard a lot about him.
He's a very erlicher yid and helped yidden all over. He has a huge budget to cover and let the goverment try to prosecute a catholic priest for those sins. Don't forget every time you give tzedaka and ask for change ure a criminal.

Now, I'd like to debate the stance of this case. If someone gives tzedaka to a charity and the collector gets 75% of it for commission, is that a crime? It might be a crime for the person who didn't report the 75% for tax but the cong. Did anything wrong with giving a receipt for the 100%???
Why is this different?

I'll tell you why this is different. Because in the Spinka fraud case, the donor got the MONEY BACK, yet got 100% of the benefit from the donation. In your above case where the fundraiser gets 75%, the donor still paid 100% (and was not later reimbursed) and is therefore entitled to take 100% of the deduction.

Millhouse - if you live here, you gotta keep the rules. End of story.

56

 Jul 14, 2009 at 10:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

Really, how much of a moron are you? The best you can say is "kudos" to a man pleading guilty in Federal Court? Are you proud of him? This case was all about PERSONAL PROFIT you idiot.

Let me tell u about spinka rabbi I am not a chosid and not a spinka chosid this man does not have 1 bad bone in his body

57

 Jul 15, 2009 at 04:20 AM Megahouse Says:

Reply to #53  
Milhouse Says:

Spoken by the tyrant who tore up the bill of rights. The state is our enemy.

Hey, Millehous, usually I understand what you say but don't agree. This time I haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about. That quote, "... government of the people, by the people, for the people...." is from Abraham (Avrohom) Lincoln. In what way was he a tyrant? In what way did he tear up the bill of rights? I guess you and I read different history books. He even looked like an ehrliche heimishe yid. Nice beard and he buttoned his jacket right over left.

58

 Jul 23, 2009 at 10:10 PM Light Says:

Reply to #47  
Milhouse Says:

Maybe we should ignore the one poster who thinks "dreche" is a word, and loves using it of erliche yidden who follow the torah and do nothing wrong, but don't conform to his goyishe values. We are OBLIGATED to take the side of our fellow yidden; but to you a yid and a goy are the same, and we must all worship Congress instead of the Torah. The prosecutor isn't an antisemite, you are.

Since when is obeying the law a goyishe value? If the law requires you to violate another persons rights as in deprive them of life, wealth, or liberty, then that law is unjust. Taxes levied upon all citizens may indeed unfairly impact some more than others, but that does not oblige you, nor condone breaking the law. Work to change the law. Work to close loop holes, and prevent tax fraud, and wasteful spending. We should all donate more of our time to the poor. I am guilty of not doing enough in this regard! The poor need money but more than money they need time. Most do not want a handout which keeps them dependent, they desire a help up which improves their lives and allows them dignity.

59

 Jul 27, 2009 at 09:34 AM Jewess Says:

Reply to #17  
reality check Says:

Lets all understand for once and for all THE END DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS. You cant steal and then give it to the poor chasidim. Nothing justifies the Rebbe being involved in this fraud and causing such a huge chillul hashem. What kind of example is he of a "REBBE" or for that matter an erlich yid????

Amen! Total Chilul Hashem. We are supposed to follow the laws of the land we are in.

60

 Aug 08, 2009 at 10:36 PM anonymous Says:

The huge "mitzvos" that the Rebbe is alleged to have done with the money are hereby null and void because they fall into the category of mitzvah habaah b'aveirah (the avaeirahs being the tremendous chillul hashem they've generated as well as the multitude of individual g'neivos he's perpetrated with each and every instance of law-breaking and, especially since he's looked at and holds himself to be a Rebbe, the multitude of "mashgeh iver baderech" aveiros he's perpetrated by misleading others into thinking it was ok to break the law). Consequently, the Rebbe's zechusim have been greatly diminished if not totally eradicated so he really needs a ye'shua now. I say let's recognize him for the human Tzelem Elokim he is and afford him no more and no less respect than any of the other miscreants we have in our families and neighborhood.

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