Monsey, NY – With the frum community reeling from one of the largest disgraces ever endured with its own arrested in a massive FBI sting operation, yet another scandal has emerged.
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This one, though, is considerably smaller. A Monsey couple has been arrested for large-scale public-assistance fraud.
According to the Journal News, a Lower Hudson Valley newspaper, the parents of 12 children pilfered $75,000 from federal rent, Medicaid and food stamp programs from February 2006 until April 2007. They have been charged with third-degree grand larceny and third-degree welfare fraud, and have been assigned $50,000 bail each.
The charges carry sentences of 4 2/3 to 14 years in state prison. The couple also could face federal charges.
The public is reminded that the above are mere allegations. Defendants are presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty in a court of law.
another chillul hashem. will this ever stop?
What a rachmunis on those innocent kids!! In this case its not a father that was indicted with swindling charges, its BOTH parents…
May Hashem bring in comfort and simcha to those unfortunate kids…
There were a total of 44 arrests last week, the majotroty of which were not Jewish. . Not “44 of its own”.
with 12 kids kein ein hora u could never have enough money. do u really have to b involved in drugs, fights, murders and not jewish to qualify for public assistence?.
who can blame them?…it’s not easy to support 12 kids
Omg! This is too much. I truly hope moshiach is on his way and we will celabrate this coming thursday!
I just got back from upstate NY so many towns are begging for people,Homes are being almost givin away,why cant chassidim particuler koller guys go live there? its so nice the weather is like switzerland
What does that mean if you want that many kids you should support them?? It is not a question of wanting……it is a question of fulfilling Hashem’s will and if He chooses to bless a couple with that many kids, bli ayin hara, then that couple cannot be blamed for any lack of funds. Hashem should bless every yid with lots of parnassa and adequate income for all their expenses.
I really feel for families trying to support 12 children (I couldn’t do it) and hope these allegations are false, but in the end, swindling from the government (which means from your neighbors who are taxpayers) is not doing your children a favor. Again, Rabbis and the community must take some responsibility. Encouraging marrying very young and having as many children as the wife can carry and insisting no one goes to public school, everyone goes to camp, etc. while at the same time discouraging higher education or learning a trade and working full time seems like a recipe for trouble.
Sadly, and I mean very sadly… these children will pay the harshest price for their parents’ deeds. If there was ever a better example as to why we should be careful to follow the laws of the land, this is it. 12 children who will probably watch their parents spend time in prison is not a risk anyone should be willing to take.
why would anyone want 12 kids. I got 2 kids and I am ready to call it quits. My only regret is I will have to indirectly support all those who decide to have 12 kids and say “Hashem will provide”. I don’t mind if Hashem provides but please don’t ask me to.
VIN I think it is irresponsible to edit the original article and not let everyone know that these criminlas were worth milions of dollars
12 kids or 24 kids, they own a house worth 1.5 million dollars, they do not need section 8, and did not have to lie and say they are tennants, when in fact they are owners. this is embarrasing, and humiliating. when with the fraud end??
raboisa its time that political leaders and the goverment to step in and help the poor religous jews with big families. If you add up the cost of sending the kids to yeshiva ,the cost of food, the cost of housing,ect. you have to make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year just to float. Raboisa let the emes be said,a religous jew aves the goverment alot of money by not sending his kids to public school, (goverment spending per kid a year is over $33,000 a year thats almost $3000 a month for each kid. so the misky family that got arrested saved the goverment almost $400,000 a year,So my question is why shoudnt the goverment chip in ? even $5000 a year per child will help,,Jewish leaders wake up ,with economic crises,people loosing jobs,its getting worse by the day .somthing has to be done.
and if they’re not blessed with parnassah it’s ok to steal from the government?
Maybe people should ask a rav before having another child, it’s just as important as asking if not to. This story is the perfect example. if any of this kids go off the derech because they don’t have their parents at home, and history has proven that kids from broken homes are more likely to go off. Then it’s Yotzo Schoroy behefsedoy. To raise a family is not easy, it takes physical and mental strength as well as a financially sound home even for does who live a simple life. People and especially mother are getting weaker and not everyone can handle it. I’m not saying that people should chas vechalom decide for themselves but a rav is someone with a das torah and can evaluate the situation. A rav is not only for when you need a heter, a rav is a walking breathing torah where we should turn to for every move we do in our lives.
if its too dificult to keep Shabbos because you cant make ends meet we start bending a little the rules??? and the same for Kashrus???
a Jew does what Hashem tells us to do even when its difficult and Hashem needs to do the rest.
ii am terribly ashamed of this tremendous CHILUL HASHEM . shame on all of them.I
The whole system is simply un-sustainable, from property prices, to the price of kosher food, to the cost of tuition etc, as the air in the big cost of living bubble is released, following the government crackdowns on the various tax and benefits loopholes etc, we will all have to get real.
Please don’t attack Chareidim.
I personally have never taken a program & pay all my taxes, Boruch Hashem I never had to. I am not blessed with 12 children though.
B4 attacking chareidim: The law of the jungle= survival of the fittest.
Look at those who wrote & govern the laws.
British parliament scandle.
USA current Treasury [includes IRS] Minister 120K tax evasion, & he still got the job. Wasn’t taken off in hand-cuffs he is in charge of my taxes approved by congrees & president. BTW he isn’t a Chareidi he married out of the faith.
He doesn’t have 12 children either & makes nice money, he was part of the federal reserve 12 years prior.
Goldman Sachs Bank, was given 11 Billion tax payer money by AIG, the government appointed CEO Liddy was a shareholder in GS.The saga goes on a lot more, but rule of the jungle these guys write the laws & us little guys have to keep them.
The parents of 12 go away in hand-cuffs the fittest become Government Ministers & CEOs.
I don’t condone geneiva or fraud at any level, by I also don’t condem Chareidim. Bernie Madoff spent 50 years preaching ethics & condeming Chareidim especially Bnei Torah, I suspect the condemming bloggers are much the same, if they open their books UH what we may find.
We are in Bein Hametzorim Vadayin Hasoton Merakeid Beineinu. Vehameivin Yovin Charboi Shelufa Beyodoi.Lo Oleinu.
All those on programs who can’t make ends meet are scared. Those who say don’t have so many children have Nazi Philosophy, how many could afford them until this crisis, & how many had nisim. Who gave you a right to pasken such chomurdicke Shalot.
I am not blessed with a lot of children, but how much I would love to have a big family, and happy I am that Am Yisroel is growing Kein Yirbu.Hashiveinu Hashem Eilecha Venoshuva, Chadeish Yomeinu kekedem.
whichever way you put it, I feel awful for the family – for the parents, and you will never know how financially desperate they were. It would be punishment enough to take away their property and give them a huge fine, to deprive the kids of their parents that would be a huge tragedy
whichever way you put it, I feel awful for the family – for the parents, and you will never know how financially desperate they were. It would be punishment enough to take away their property and give them a huge fine, to deprive the kids of their parents that would be a huge tragedy
is it a mitzvah to have 12 kids if you cant afford them?
i am shocked at how many people are making shame on them with out knowing what realy happend. if it is not true these people will not write appolagies.
dont judge others and dont sign piskei dinim on others.
moshiach were are you
I choose to withhold judgement until all of the facts come out. Just because the government announces a crime does not mean that it’s true. Remember, the people who make these arrests have more to gain than the so called criminals.
I think if you looked for a definition of them in the dictionary you might find them under Parasites.
Some birth control methods are allowed if the mother’s health is endangered, but not for financial reasons. How can you say poseach es yadecha u’masbia l’chol chai rotzon if you don’t believe it?
People listen up after after Hitler yemach shemoi destroyed close to 40% of jews, I encourage everyone to have as many kinderlach. i myself have 13 kein yirbo .Its the responsibilty of the leaders and the goverment to come up withan amicable souloution, btw the entire area of upstate NY once you are like 2 hours driving north from NYC is dirt cheap in housing, towns like schnectedy ,troy,utica,rochester,albany,syracus,glen falls are begging for people and houses in most towns are below $100,000
WHAT’S ALL THIS CHATTER ABOUT! I personally know this family. They are like many of us yes including non Jews – politicians etc who some times fall short of not taking advantage of money being handed out. They do live in a large house but I can testify they are penny less. They fell through with several business deals and are struggling bitterly to make ends meet. I’d be surprised if they’re not on the receiving end of the tomchei shabbos list. Are we the people who are supposed to live with “Havei dan as kol adam lkaf zchus?? Should no one of us know what it means 12 kids and hundreds of thousands in debt and having to marry off children.
people on this site are constantly discussing if it’s k’dai to keep on having so many children if you are not sure you can support them. I was just reading a book of letters from the lubavitcher rebbe that were translated into english (eternal joy) where the Rebbe discusses this issue. I am copying over parts of the letter here, because i thought it really puts things into perspective, especially when the person who said it is a tzaddik who knows a bit better than us:
“One of the strongest objections for…limiting the number of children is fear of the financial inability to support children. Naturally, parents want the best for their children, and fear of being unable to provide adequately is a powerful concern-but based on an assumption that springs from a weakness of faith and presumptuousness. One who fears that he will not be able to provide is assuming that it is completely through his efforts that he succeeds. True, Torah requires that man work to provide for his family. But it is a primary tenet of Judaism that all success comes from G-d, that it is His blessings that give sustenance, not one’s own efforts alone. It is G-d who provides for all of His creatures; another mouth will not overburden Him .
But the objections continue. Granted that having children is a fine, even beautiful thin; but at least give people athe choice as to when to have children. However, can people be faulted for delaying their first child until they feel emotionally and financially able, or for wishing to space their children , to have a break between one child and the next?
This argument is seemingly logical and certainly appealing. But while it is an axiom of Judaism that man has free choice, do not confuse this with an unlimited opportunity to choose. A child is not a faucet, to be turned on at will.
No power on earth can guarantee the birth of a baby. That decision,that power, is G-d’s alone, the third partner in every child. The possible blessing so disdained earlier, may not be available later.
Take his blessing when He offers them, gratefully, and rest assured that this third Partner is benevolent, all knowing, Who can be trusted to know the best time.
Bluntly: it si presumtous for anyone to see herself as the final authority determining life. Attempts to regulate life based solely on man’s limited understanding are foolhardy, and the stakes are too high to risk the unpredictable.
The human body is infinitely intricate. Disrupting its natural functions inevitable causes problems. Family planning, presented as helpful and logical, cuases many of the marital problems so prevalent today.
Children, many children, are the greatest gift and blessing G-d can bestow upon us; do not let imagined obstacles stand in the way of enjoying these blessings.”
(Sichos Kodesh 5741, vol. 2, pp. 99-108)
Anyone who commits tax or welfare fraud is stealing form me an you. Period. They are ganovim. Aside from chillul hashem, they are oiver major issurim. I don’t want to pass judgement on these defendants, but I see all the food stamp payers with multiple children in fine matching outfits and designer strollers strlling the avenue in leisure and wonder if they are gonovim also. In fact everyone is looking at them and wondering the same thing. Its pashut, there is no justification for stealing, I wish we could get this message out.
I don’t know if it matters to you or not, but to the extent that tax fraud / welfare fraud / benefits fraud / etc are considered to be “sins against me” (as a taxpayer), you will not have my forgiveness come Yom Kippur.
אידעל’ך שרייט’ס: עד מת
How much money does the government spend taking care of even one child under foster care? Multiply that by twelve and it is probably more money than what the govenment provided with food stamps, etc.
Im the last person in the world to defend gneiva h, but I know these people personally and they are the sweetest, nicest, holiest people in the world… I cant imagine that they actually did anything that was mentioned in the article. They dont live a large life, and I know them for years, and I cant imagine that they have any money to spare, let alone millions in real estate… I bet this is moreof the anti-frum macarthy witch hunt
they are rely innocent
RABBONIM! MANHIGIM! ADMORIM! We desperately need responsible leaders who will guide the heimishe oilem in leading modest (in financial terms) lives, not living beyond our means. Yes, it is very difficult to live in a community and need to keep up with the same high standards for everyone regardless of their family size, income, basic expenses. This couple is lives typical “erhlich heimish frumm” life that we all aspire to.
However, why the exorbitant expensive Chassunas, sheve brochos, vorts, Bar Mitzvahs. Most expensive baby carrages, children shoes, “matching clothing”, SHEITLECH , SHTREIMLECH!, hats, AND of course CARS! Rent is sky high because of the Section 8 that every landlord expects, wagonsfull of food because of Foodstamps.
Not that this particular couple has all of the above, but when you live with a large family in a community that this is the norm, it is very tempting to “nosh”from questionable source.
I personally don’t know enough facts of this case to make a comment on these people. However, a few years ago, I was nebach involved in an internal family dispute regarding money that brought out all the ugliness & rancor for the same reasons that many commenters here are citing. I personally know how money can blind people even when they are otherwise normally well adjusted. So wether its chareidi, or litvish or not even frum, when its an inyan of money, the teivah can become too great for most people to overcome due to their own financial pressures.
You are forgetting that this has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with how many children this, or any other couple, has!! It simply has to do with WHAT they did- illegally!
Very sad story…if the allegations prove to be true then they deserve to be punished….however it’s their children that will also pay a stiff price if the parents go to jail…what a shame (if true)!!
To all of you “honest” people who would never dream of stealing …. How many of you hire illegal cleaning ladies??? I think practically everybody out there is guilty to a certain of extent of something that is not 100% according to the letter of the law. Yet, to self righteously put down others feels good… it’s that see-saw effect of putting the other guy down so that I can be raised up. Instead of pointing fingers, we should all be doing teshuva.
Teshuva, Tefilla, U’tzedaka Ma’avirin es roah hagezeira.
oy gevald another chillul hashem , dear brothers & sisters make a shtikel cheshbon hanefesh , there is a saying in our country if u play the game play it straight , so how straight can u go , the yesivas want their tuitions , no chochmos , the grocer wants 2 b paid too , the electric co. the gas co. the telephone co. insurance co. glasses, shoes, clothing, cleaners & so on &on , to feed bli ayin hora 14 nafoushes is no game, no one should tell a mother how many children to bear thats real apikurses, u mind your buissness. and dont mixin hashems buissness, man deyouhiv chaya yohiv mezona, we only have 2 rely and belive in it that the same boro olam who benched us with children will support his children , the children what hashem gives 2 a person is not his he is only a shomer on hashems pikodon, now by having a large family our goverment is a malchus shel chesed b.h. u.s.a. is the way , so if we go to the goverment, social services and say the thruth, they do help with medicaid , food stamps, cash allowances, etc, they help pay the rent , & so on but u must learn to say the emes , titain emes leyaakov, to say ligyonos not 2 have emuna ubitochun, that hashem has his shelichim ,2 help were its despratley needed, we say every dar in birchas hashachar boruch hamekadesh shmoy borabim, nu vi iz der kiddush hashem r.l. we all have 2 b metzamzem its inflation depression, so our forfather yaakov ovinu said 2 his children lomo tisrouu. y ? dos brengt r.l. anti semitisem der yid ganvet in ganvet, gevald were are our raabonim rebbes morah horues ? were are the mussar ? ma yaase haben shelo yechto, kol yisroel areivim, they made a big mistake, but al tudin sheain don yechidi elo echod, hashem should help them to get out of this trouble and we all should learn a mussar haskel 2 b more honest beemes , and rely on hashem u should go out 2 work , tov thora im derech eretz , we should have more bittocum & emuna in hakodush boruchu, & b zoiche 2 binyan beis haslishi ugoula shelaimo bimhairo, omen selo.
#74 you are so right, it is time to lower the standard of living. when we grew up, we didn’t expect to go to camp, have fancy cars, vacations, etc. and we didn’t buy anything we didn’t have money for. (no credit cards, specially for food) there are 4 words parents have to start saying to their kids and live by example, “we can’t afford that.” it will help the shidduch crises as well if girls are not expected to give huge dowries to get a decent boy. above all, it is time for males in our society to finally take responsibility & earn a living by the time they become fathers. either delay fatherhood, or go out and get a vocation or profession so that you can support your family with hashem’s help. it is time to turn back the clock and live like our forebears.
So innocent that they plead guilty yesterday. Sad.