Israel – The Chief Rabbinate expressed shock and outrage at the Tel Aviv shooting at a gay youth center Saturday evening, calling it “an unthinkable, vile crime.” In a statement published Sunday the Rabbinate said that, “When Moses saw a Jew beating another Jew he called him evil. This is all the more true when a Jew murders a Jew.”
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Rabbi Ron Yosef, a gay Orthodox rabbi who runs the organization, told Ynet that he has been receiving threats on his life in the last year.
“I call on the Israeli and especially public leaders and rabbis from across the political spectrum, to denounce and condemn this crime and expressions of hatred and violence, and act firmly against the verbal and physical violence directed at gays and lesbians,” Rabbi Yosef stated.
“a gay Orthodox rabbi “
Could someone help me out?
What does Orthodox mean?
noone should beat anyone. but what is an orthodox gay rabbi? doesn’t the jewish bible prohibit male homosexual activity?
Sorry for the Typo above, I meant to write Contradicting.
I think everyone is thinking the same thing but no one is commenting, on one hand what community services does this offer except for justifying a lifestyle…this center has zero tolerance in a Jewish environment. On the other hand murdering and judging on our end is also 100 prcnt wrong.
This center should be closed and don’t address this man as an orthodox rabbi,
Tell for that so called orthodox rabbi that he forget to learn porshos pinches.
“A gay Orthodox rabbi”?!?!?!?! Holy Moses! What has this world come to???
How can all the people recently busted in the financial schemes be orthodox and guilty of money laundering and other crimes? Isn’t it a contradiction also?
To all of you: Did you all forget the 10 commandments all of a sudden?
This was an act thru God orthodox gay rabbi can’t you see?
He is an oxymoron
“gay”, “orthodox” , “rabbi”, sick!!! maybe it will teach them not to push their parade
Pinchas witnessed the couple in the middle of a lewd act & then killed them. For those who believe that the shooter was correctly following the example of Pinchas, what acts did the shooter witness before killing/ injuring his victims? And why, exactly, would a girl be chayav misa for visiting a gay youth center?
why is the article assuming that the gunman was jewish maybe it was an arab or any other person?
There was more than one “unspeakable, vile crime” taking place there that day…
The Torah calls the homosexual “act” a to’eyvah.
A person who has ta’ayvos, but doesn’t act on them, i.e., who restrains his yeitzer hora, is praisworthy. This is true whether the potential aveirah is a forbidden sexual act (whether heterosexual or homosexual), or retzichah, or some other aveirah.
However, once a person commits the aveirah, again whether it is a forbidden sexual aveirah, the aveirah of retzichah, or some other aveirah, that person is in another parshah. V’hamivin yavin.
The rotzei’ach, in the event under consideration, falls into the latter category.
A shame that people here are more scared about what goes on in someone’s bedroom then murder. There was no beit din judgment; there is no beit din that can hear the death penalty today and there was no trial and even if there had been these people could not be convicted; no warning or witnesses. Even if the murderer ends up being not Jewish, yet people here defend his crimes. But he’s whether Jewish or not, the people who support this murder are sick!
To #19 You are ok ing murder! What are you? An animal? What happened to the aseres hadibros? Did you throw everything you were taught in the garbage because somebody is not like you are? You are giving murder the o.k. I hope you do not teach your kids that!! You are dangerous on the street! I hope VIN prints this!
g-d help us all
we have condoned / fostered an atmosphere of intolerance and violence towards those that differ with us (charedi demonstrations against parking garage & mother accused of starving her baby as an example) and now this !
i pray the culprit should not be one associated with the religious camps .. for we will all have to share the blame then
if the church can have a roman orthodox priest then why cant jewish gays have a gay orthodox rabbi
the word orthodox has nothing to do with jews or level of yiddihkiet . look it up in the dictionary
And people wonder why the non frum hate the frum. It wasn’t a club, it was a support group in a community center. whether you approve of what they are is not the point. People are born gay, it’s not a choice. As for those who say it’s assur to be gay and they got what they deserved, it’s assur to do homosexual acts, not to be gay. Why don’t I see you sitting alongside the highway on shabbos with a machine gun shooting at everyone being mechalel shabbos there? I sincerely hope one of your kids doesn’t to go off the derech, or chas veshalom kill themselves because they think they’re gay and know that you believe they deserve to be killed. You bunch of sick people trying to justify murder, i think i saw a girl in Boro park dressed untznius. Why don’t you go riot for a bit?
Without judging what those men were or were ot doing at that club that night, (because it’s not my business) one thing is for certain; That even if they did an actual maseh biya with eidim and hasroah-which is doubtful, since there is no sanhedrin today, he is certainly not chayiv misa bidei odom and whomever killed them is a rotzeiach. If you were able to see the rotzeiach intent, you would have the right to kill him, since acc to the torah he is a rodaif and according to secular law-to prevent the commission of a felony.
As far as the young men in the club, they were probabley confused, lost, and with the proper help and love; if given as opposed to shunning them, would have been alot more productive than putting them in a grave.
We are talking today about COLD BLOODED MURDER!! I read that 2 or 3 people are now dead 15 are hurt!!! Thanks to this ANIMAL!! We can discuss people’s sexual preferences at another time!! NOT when people are dying!!
Think this through, if people can justify murder at a gay meeting, what is to stop them from justifying murder at the parking lot in Jerusalem, or for murdering women who don’t go to the Mikva?
This was murder, 100% and there is NO justification
The three kadoshim who were murdered last night for their beliefs, their lifestyle or for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time, are no different than any other innocent victims of terrorism, whether in Mumbai, a bus in Tel Aviv or a missile landing in Ashdod….all are the same. Hashem yarachem their families.
#37 , I am not sure I follow the logic. But “gay Orthodox Rabbi” is something that cannot exist, like a fish that lives in a treetop, or a cat that lives at the bottom of the ocean. Why do these people force themselves on others? It’s one thing to live quietly in sin, another thing entirely to flaunt your sin before the whole city, and tell the others that are offended that we are are the sinners for not “embracing” their degeneracy.
From what i understand… this is a group of Orlthodx gays who are encouraged to talk with each other, and have a place where they feel saft to talk about their taivos (to not feel shamed). But NOT to act on their taivos. There is nothing wrong with that. Let’s not turn this horrible murder into something it is not.
The fact is that 3 yidden have been murdered. That is all I need to know to feel pain in my heart.
Reading so many comments here that try to excuse murder of human beings through halachik reasons opens my eyes to the barbarity of “ultra orthodox” education. Maybe Europeans were right when they showed their middle finger to organized religions in past century. They realized that religions create any “holy explanations” that bring devastation to humanity and that is why there are less wars on their continent today. Muslim extremists also create all sorts of rulings based on their korans to justify murder of innocent people, but I’m sure orthodox Jews will agree on many things with Taliban.
WHH
The Niftar are just kids! All this pilpul back and forth is not relevant here.
In reference to my previous post. This Orthodox “gay” rabbi runs a group for people who have these taivos and do not (or try to not) act on them. That is not necessarily the purpose of this particular club apparently.
murder is a horrific sin. but i dont understand why, the moment gays and lesbians are targeted, everyone jumps on the liberal bandwagon to justify people who are an abomination to all that is holy. all of you who rushed to accept their “way of life” and “choice of orientation”, need a serious reality check about your ideals and concept of right and wrong.
Babies have intense feelings toward their parents.
These feelings range from overwhelming love, to intense rage.
If the feelings are validated, they are processed, and integrated into a mature personality.
If those feelings are intercepted in an unhealthy way the intensity does not have an outlet.
Intense feelings are sexualized in young adults.
A person, male or female who is responsive to the emotional needs of an intensely needy young adult can trigger sexual feelings.
Awareness of this reality, and acknowledgement of it is the key.
Acting on it is 100% wrong, halachically and psychologically.
Feelings rise and feelings fall, especially if you observe them non-judgmentally and let them go.
Over-reacting judgementally to a negative feeling leads to all kinds of unhealthy obsessions and guilt.
Acting out on unhealthy or premature sexuality, increases the drive, instead of postponing it for an appropriate relationship.
Encouraging a young adult to act out sexually is irresponsible and/or abusive.
Any adult who takes pleasure from the vulnerability of an emotionally deprived young adult is being selfish at best.
A healthy adult who validates emotionally, but stays focused on reality and long-term goals can help emotionally wounded or deprived teenagers heal.
May Hashem help us all with our individual nisyonos.
Will any of your posts bring the dead back to life? 3 are DEAD!! MURDERED in COLD BLOOD!! Let the murderer turn himself in!!
3 points: 1. this was not a gay dance club, it was a support group for teens who are struggling with their sexuality. 2. You can be a gay Orthodox Rabbi, its not an aveirah to have gay feelings, the issur is only on committing a sexual act. So if the rabbi does not commit this act, and is devoted to living an orthodox lifestyle, he can be a gay ortho rabbi. 3. it is exactly this “chayav misa” hate mongering that leads to attacks like this in the first place, so anyone who vocalizes things like that is partially responsible for this crime. Who are you to judge another yid whom you dont even know?
Many of those who justified killing homosexuals merely because they were gay also justified killing jews merely because they were jews.
These three murdered young men and women were like the innocent victims in Mumbai or the innocent victims of terror bombings on a bus or missile attack. There is no rationale or justification for such cold blooded murder of jews, whatever we may think of their reason for being a specific place.
the posts here are absolutely appalling.
Shame on those who avoid discussing the murder of fellow Jews and instead concentrate on whether a gay Orthodox rabbi is an oxymoron. How do know how he lives his life? For all you know him and his he could be a lamed vavnik.
Shame on those who justify the murder of their fellow Jews. chayav meeta indeed. Were you there? Did you witness acts requiring a death penalty?
A community that professes to be righteous before HaShem – where the leaders commit felonies every waking moment of their lives(oppressing the ger, sitting in silence while their children are raped, cheat and steal in their business dealings – should not be first to cast the first stone!
Shame on you all.
Some of the posts here are mind boggling. The fact of the matter is that many of the posters are in denial that there is no such phenomenon in their communities. How would you feel if your child was a faigeleh and someone came and killed him. Are these people not worthy of living in harmony with the world? If thats the case you can also make the argument that “Hitler justifiably killed Jews because they brought degeneracy” according to this interpretation of degeneracy. I find it interesting that you don’t support the murdering of people such as Rabbi Kolko who engaged in pedophilia…. or the numerous hasidim that commit aveirot. So which aveirot can you “kill” for. Next time I see a frum person committing an aveira I should take out a machine gun and kill him?
This was an outrageous act of murder.
Nobody makes a “choice” to be gay, any more so than a person makes a “choice” to be autistic.
Nobody would expect an autistic person to act with the same mannerisms and social behavior as a psychologically healthy person; we make exceptions in order to accommodate their special needs.
God created man in his own image, and while you may not be able to make sense of the down syndrome child, or the autistic adult, or yes, even the gay or lesbian individual, they are all Gods children, to be afforded the same level of dignity and respect as any healthy person.
There is no mention in the Torah of there being something sinful with being gay, only engaging in homosexual behavior.
There is however, prominently displayed in the 10 commandments, the prohibition against murder, which seems to have been watered down over the years in order to justify senseless killing in the name of religion.
What this all boils down to is that innocent people have been murdered and seriously hurt and we are learning that the only people that those who call themselves really frum orthodox Jews are ready to condemn anyone who isnt and extol those who are and commit crimes.
would we not all demand sympathy from the gay community if a gay shooter came and murdered chareidim. people wake up and show some sensitivity to another community.