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Israel - Rabbi: Single Women Not Allowed to Procreate

Published on: August 17, 2009 09:12 AM
By:  Ynet
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Israel - Rabbi Menachem Burstein, head of the Jewish fertility organization Puah Institute, said that “there is not one rabbinical religious authority in the world allowing a single woman to give birth.”

Speaking during an event at the Ono Academic College, Rabbi Burstein claimed that Rabbi Yuval Cherlow has reconsidered an approval given in the past to a single woman approaching the age of 40 to get pregnant from a sperm donation, (as was reported here on VIN News).

“Rabbi Cherlow said he would go back on his ruling if Rabbi Aharon Lichtenstein told him to do so, and he did go back on it,” Rabbi Burstein claimed.

Rabbi Cherlow, however, refused to approve or deny this claim. “Those who want to know my stand on this matter should turn to me,” he told Ynet.

Rabbi Burstein spoke during a conference held under the title, “Parenthood at any cost?” The rabbi presented the halachic problem in giving a sperm donation to a single woman.

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“All the efforts we are making for treatments and insemination are aimed at starting a family, and here the framework of the family is damaged,” he said. “Judaism does not permit one person’s happiness at the expense of another, and it has been proven that a child born to a single woman from in vitro insemination suffers greatly.”

The conference was hosted by Dr. Gil Segal, head of the Center for Health Law and Bioethics at the Ono Academic Collage. Dr. Segal noted that Israel was “fertility power, leading the global front in the birth of biological children.”

He spoke of the current state of affairs, saying that adoption in Israel was the last choice, and that the Jewish state was fourth in the world in artificial insemination. He noted, however, that there was a trend of seeking “the perfect child”, and that 98% of the requests for an abortion are approved, with the reasons for this move varying and including non-fundamental defects.



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Read Comments (146)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:14 AM A single mother Says:

"A child born to a single woman from in vitro insemination suffers greatly."

Where is he getting that, he is very wrong with this statement.

2

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:24 AM Anonymous Says:

Is it a HALACHA or just morally wrong? Rabbis should stick to halacha rulings and not just judge for convenience or morals.

3

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:28 AM zissy Solomon Says:

Yes, he stands correct. His claim comes from the pediatric journal published last summer the September issue. The article was written by Dr. Vincent stamford who specializes in psychology in children who where born from ivf treatment or out of wedlock.

4

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:27 AM Anonymous Says:

The Rabbi states that "it has been proven that a child born to a single woman from in vitro insemination suffers greatly." I would like to know what proof he is relying upon. Have there been controlled studies? How does he come up with this assertion that there is proof?

5

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:45 AM Gadolwannabe Says:

"It has been proven that a child born to a single woman from in vitro insemination suffers greatly." And a child born into a family of 13 has it so great? It is a judgment call and Rabbi's have no business intruding their own personal prejudices in the family decisions of single women. Focus on the issue of bugs in strawberries and leave life and death decisions to the rest of us.

6

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:04 AM Anonymous Says:

what is the halacha?

7

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:00 AM Gadol you will never be Says:

Reply to #5  
Gadolwannabe Says:

"It has been proven that a child born to a single woman from in vitro insemination suffers greatly." And a child born into a family of 13 has it so great? It is a judgment call and Rabbi's have no business intruding their own personal prejudices in the family decisions of single women. Focus on the issue of bugs in strawberries and leave life and death decisions to the rest of us.

Life and death decisions are for Rabbi's to decide.

8

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:55 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

The Rabbi states that "it has been proven that a child born to a single woman from in vitro insemination suffers greatly." I would like to know what proof he is relying upon. Have there been controlled studies? How does he come up with this assertion that there is proof?

imagine you as Child (Chas V'shalom..) who has no Father.. you would grow up to be a Hippy.. if you dont understand it, your not qualified to give your opinion on this...

9

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:52 AM ShatzMatz Says:

Many Rabbonim predicted this slippery slope when Reb Moshe z"l permitted sperm donation. The rules should be that only sperm from the husband can be used. This would eliminate many of these questions. Of course it would not be good news for those men whose condition does not permit this. But it is a price we have to pay for preserving our family values.

10

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:51 AM slowly chipping away.. Says:

It seems that people don't care about the law of G-D anymore, they try to slowly chip away at our long established rules of the Torah. Personally, I don't see a difference between using this treatment for single people to using it for married couples, but I am not convinced that G-D likes this treatment even for married couples.

11

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:50 AM Shloimy Says:

Today's psychologists like to implant their thinking into the Torah.
They would probably say that the Torah could not have permitted multiple wives, it's not good for the children. Similarly, If a Kohen divorces his wife with twelve children and he wants to come back, let him come back because of the good of the children. Roeh Dom Machmas Niddah, let him stay with her, because of the good of the children.
The fact is that nowhere, does the Torah indicate any benefit to children by being in this family unit, as we know it today,; Unless, we implant this idea, into the Torah.
Consequently, there is absolutely no differance between a single woman trying to get a child via a donor, or a married woman using a donor which is not her husband.

12

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:49 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

Is it a HALACHA or just morally wrong? Rabbis should stick to halacha rulings and not just judge for convenience or morals.

Who then should judge morality, the spin doctors? By the way Halacha defines morality, not the other way around.

13

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:48 AM Anonymous Says:

If the interests of the future child was the only concern, then wouldn't we also make sure that a couple is mature enough and able to be good parents and support their children before allowing them to marry? Wouldn't we require that all couples who want to wed be tested to make sure that they don't both carry a gene for a genetic disease like, CF, Tay Sachs, BRCA 1, etc? Let's have some consistency.

14

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:48 AM Open Your Eyes Says:

Look on the streets, look at all the kids that grow up in single parent homes, 90% of the time there is something (wrong) there. yes, there are always exceptions to the rule but generally speaking just open your eyes & you'll see that is the truth. We don't need a scientific study that the sky is blue.

15

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:48 AM Anonymous Says:

And is it OK for single men to be the father of child out of wedlock....He totally fails to address the halachic implications of the the tens of thousands of jewish men who are the sperm donors which are used for these women. At the time of donation, you cannot restrict to whom the donation will be used (ie. only a married woman whose husband is a Belzer chassid etc).

16

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:33 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

Is it a HALACHA or just morally wrong? Rabbis should stick to halacha rulings and not just judge for convenience or morals.

Have you read Perkie Avos lately??
Ethical/Moral - behavior and HALACHA are two sides of the same same coin one cannot exist with out the other ...
as it ays "veosiesoh hatov vehayosser..." not JUST WHAT is purly halacha!

17

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:32 AM Anonymous Says:

This is one of the most file and painful comments, in a series of such mindless comments, coming from these rabbonim. There are many legitimate reasons under daas torah why a single woman would want to have a child and there is more than sufficient evidence that they are fully capable of raising such children to be well adjusted, wonderful and loving boys and girls who are shomrei torah u'mitzvot. Will the rav stand in the maternity wards of the hospital and block the doctors from delivering these babies since the numbers of single jewish women (including frum women) bearing children is growing by about 15% per year (according to health ministry data) and this Burstien will have no affect on these numbers (other than embarrassing himself by his words).

18

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:13 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Gadolwannabe Says:

"It has been proven that a child born to a single woman from in vitro insemination suffers greatly." And a child born into a family of 13 has it so great? It is a judgment call and Rabbi's have no business intruding their own personal prejudices in the family decisions of single women. Focus on the issue of bugs in strawberries and leave life and death decisions to the rest of us.

Huh? The torah jew knows that we must live with the laws that god gave us at mount sinai. Since most of us are not well versed on all the intricate rules that we have pledged to live by, over 3300 years ago, we have our rabbi's who guide us. How can one make any life or death decision and not consult a rabbi? Are you aware of how many halachot there are in such situations?

From a halacha stand-point a single women who asks for the IVF treatment is a very complicated issue and is not allowed. If one was really interested in halacha and wanted to know the truth they would go to the experts in this field, not some 'rabbi' who spent a few years in that position, but one who spent decades delving into the books of our holy torah. I can think of only one that could take on the responsibility of this issue. But I digress as I know the 'truth' is not what you're seeking.

19

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:12 AM formally Says:

Reply to #3  
zissy Solomon Says:

Yes, he stands correct. His claim comes from the pediatric journal published last summer the September issue. The article was written by Dr. Vincent stamford who specializes in psychology in children who where born from ivf treatment or out of wedlock.

please link or state study

it has been proven that a child born to a single woman from in vitro insemination suffers greatly."

I as since I would like to know why, why it should be different than a married woman who gave birth through ivf and then lost her husband

20

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:09 AM yossele Says:

What's so difficult to understand?
A child in a single parent home is at a terrible disadvantage in life. Yes, even more than child number 12 in a two-parent home.

No judgment call, just common sense.

21

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:24 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Open Your Eyes Says:

Look on the streets, look at all the kids that grow up in single parent homes, 90% of the time there is something (wrong) there. yes, there are always exceptions to the rule but generally speaking just open your eyes & you'll see that is the truth. We don't need a scientific study that the sky is blue.

That is too simplistic. Yes, there are many children born to unwed mothers who have problems. However, many of those women are poor and uneducated and often had their babies when very young and were in abusive relationships. The older woman who use IVF tend to be from a very different socio-economic background. You are trying to compare apples to oranges.

22

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:22 AM moishe Says:

Reply to #5  
Gadolwannabe Says:

"It has been proven that a child born to a single woman from in vitro insemination suffers greatly." And a child born into a family of 13 has it so great? It is a judgment call and Rabbi's have no business intruding their own personal prejudices in the family decisions of single women. Focus on the issue of bugs in strawberries and leave life and death decisions to the rest of us.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I come from a family of 13 and did not suffer at all, it was actually fun, so who are you to compare.
By the way I don't know how Jewish you are, but is Judaism just bugs in strawberries how we are born and how we die is entirely our decision? that is not Judaism. whether you like it or not Judaism is a way of life, it dictates every aspect and every moment of our lives and yes even how we are born and die.

23

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:20 AM FVNMS Says:

Reply to #11  
Shloimy Says:

Today's psychologists like to implant their thinking into the Torah.
They would probably say that the Torah could not have permitted multiple wives, it's not good for the children. Similarly, If a Kohen divorces his wife with twelve children and he wants to come back, let him come back because of the good of the children. Roeh Dom Machmas Niddah, let him stay with her, because of the good of the children.
The fact is that nowhere, does the Torah indicate any benefit to children by being in this family unit, as we know it today,; Unless, we implant this idea, into the Torah.
Consequently, there is absolutely no differance between a single woman trying to get a child via a donor, or a married woman using a donor which is not her husband.

Your interpretation of halacha frightens me. I hope I am not understanding your last statement (sarcasm?), and that nobody takes it seriously.

24

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:18 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
slowly chipping away.. Says:

It seems that people don't care about the law of G-D anymore, they try to slowly chip away at our long established rules of the Torah. Personally, I don't see a difference between using this treatment for single people to using it for married couples, but I am not convinced that G-D likes this treatment even for married couples.

perhaps god does not like cancer treatments either!

25

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:59 AM Surprised Says:

I am rather uncertain of the source for the Torah "not allowing" single women to have children. Whether one likes it or not, a careful study of Nach may be quite surprise the reader. I am afraid that in spite of those who will say that we cannot take what is written cannot be taken at face value, Nach does not say one thing and mean something else - although deeper meanings may be implicated.

And just for the record, one of the children of Bustenai was from an ex-female slave, who was awarded part of the inheritance along with the other sons!

Whilst not to be condoned, I know of no source stating a single woman cannot conceive, although I appreciate that this would not be acceptable on "morally religious" grounds.

In closing I would respectfully point out that the Torah itself, recognising the "weaknesses" of men and women and the appropriate action in such cases.

26

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:57 AM sg Says:

I love blanket and generic statements. " there is not one rabbinical religious authority in the world allowing a single woman to give birth". Oh Really? I have heard a number of gedolim talk about a widow who had her husbands sperm frozen prior to his getting ill. His illness prevented him from having kids, so before it got too late, the rabbonim allowed him to freeze his sperm. He was niftar and now she wants to artificially inseminate from her husband.

Not every case is so clear cut and I wish these rabbanim would choose their words more carefully before they open their mouths and spout utter nonsense or inaccuracies. They do more harm then good and the subject is usually a machlokes anyways. just pasken privately and stay quiet!

27

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:52 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
Anonymous Says:

And is it OK for single men to be the father of child out of wedlock....He totally fails to address the halachic implications of the the tens of thousands of jewish men who are the sperm donors which are used for these women. At the time of donation, you cannot restrict to whom the donation will be used (ie. only a married woman whose husband is a Belzer chassid etc).

Jewish men are not sperm donors as there is no discussion about it. It is not permitted......Unless you are talking about the spouse?

28

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:52 AM Anonymous Says:

"We don't need a scientific study that the sky is blue."

On the contrary, even when you have scientific studies stating the obvious, like the world is over 6,000 years old, you still don't believe it.

29

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:49 AM Anonymous Says:

So, what is the role of a single woman in orthodox society? Shouldn't an orthodox community be the best place for a woman to raise a child without a father? Isn't it supposed to be a warm, close-knit caring community that looks after each other?

30

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:48 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
zissy Solomon Says:

Yes, he stands correct. His claim comes from the pediatric journal published last summer the September issue. The article was written by Dr. Vincent stamford who specializes in psychology in children who where born from ivf treatment or out of wedlock.

Care to provide a link or more specific reference than "the pediatric journal?" Somehow I doubt it.

All of a sudden the frummies are scientists.

31

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:47 AM chief doofis Says:

Allowing unwed women to have IVF, may set us upon a slippery slope. I am aware of one young lady, who had IVF, who was / perhaps still is, a lesbian. I think that she is shomeret Shabbat, and I saw the child wearing a kippah. Nonetheless, is that a proper home for a child? Where do you draw the line? What about a girl who is a Bat Kohen?

Of course, you will always have the unfortunate young woman, whose biological clock is running down, and would like to have a child. How many fellows did she date, and didn't like the fact that they had receding hairlines, or whose taste in music differed from their own? How many boys weren't learning in the "right" Yeshiva, or weren't earning enough to satisfy them?

At the eleventh hour, often after seeing hundreds of boys, they are waking up? Methinks the "shidduch crisis" is a two way street!

32

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:47 AM Anonymous Says:

I can't believe ppl are actually comparing all this to a situation of where a 'married couple have tried all natural resources , and are using biological methods as per "Last resource" of a be'daved where they have no other choice at all, in opposing to where it has become a first choice option for a single women adopting that practice, as a first choice and never marry...is anyone using ANY logic here?! its simple don't mess with nature and halachic perspective it says even the thoughts of at "shas biah" makes a difference in the making of the child i.e. as stated by chazal to refrain at a moment of anger, dispute, etc. as it would affect the child, (even impure thoughts can effect...) and no need to say a faceless sperm from who knows who or what.. and btw some of the above (stated 2000 yrs ago) have been proved scientificaly , that a child born in a house of love is far better ...

33

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:45 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

The Rabbi states that "it has been proven that a child born to a single woman from in vitro insemination suffers greatly." I would like to know what proof he is relying upon. Have there been controlled studies? How does he come up with this assertion that there is proof?

Do you have proof otherwise? Have you researched this? Oh..your not being cynical...I see

34

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:21 AM Anonymous Says:

I doubt any of these rabbonim have a childless daughter who has dealt with this issue. If so, they would not be so heartless to deny them the joys of motherhood. Not every yiddeshe girl will find her beschert and they shouldn't be punished by also denying them the joy and nachas of motherhood. They will be able to devote all their time and resources to the care and nurturing of the child.

35

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:16 AM egghead Says:

is this the only reason this rabbi can come up why single woman shouldn't get preg? Just wondering

36

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:14 AM webmom Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

If the interests of the future child was the only concern, then wouldn't we also make sure that a couple is mature enough and able to be good parents and support their children before allowing them to marry? Wouldn't we require that all couples who want to wed be tested to make sure that they don't both carry a gene for a genetic disease like, CF, Tay Sachs, BRCA 1, etc? Let's have some consistency.

Wait a second.... B"H such testing is done today--i.e. Dor Yeshorim checks for deadly genetically passed on diseases found in the ashkenazy community such as Tay Sachs

37

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:11 AM Anonymous Says:

I suggest you go online and you will find dozens of sperm banks in EY and the U.S. which openly advertise "jewish donors" so please know what you are talking about before you make such stupid comments.

38

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:10 AM AuthenticSatmar Says:

Why isn't this Rabbi entitled to his opinion any more than the readers and commentors of this site. Would all those criticizing please stand up and show your credentials. Whyat has happened to fair and honest debate?

39

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:10 AM "Government is not the solution to our problem government IS the problem " Says:

It would be much better if we heard the direct quotes in their entirety in the language they were spoken. I am sure he said the right thing but when you see a snippet, people tend to react on the translated sentence rather than on the point. There is no doubt the people "offended" by this comment were the liberals among us.

Just think of the halachik ramifications of a sperm donation..... the kid would ONLY be able to marry a Ger Tzedek because they "could be" related to just about anyone else.

40

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:07 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

This is one of the most file and painful comments, in a series of such mindless comments, coming from these rabbonim. There are many legitimate reasons under daas torah why a single woman would want to have a child and there is more than sufficient evidence that they are fully capable of raising such children to be well adjusted, wonderful and loving boys and girls who are shomrei torah u'mitzvot. Will the rav stand in the maternity wards of the hospital and block the doctors from delivering these babies since the numbers of single jewish women (including frum women) bearing children is growing by about 15% per year (according to health ministry data) and this Burstien will have no affect on these numbers (other than embarrassing himself by his words).

Frum single women having children, conception via intro. And who are the fathers since halacha does not permit men as donors. Gentiles?

What you are suggesting here is a myth

41

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:39 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Gadolwannabe Says:

"It has been proven that a child born to a single woman from in vitro insemination suffers greatly." And a child born into a family of 13 has it so great? It is a judgment call and Rabbi's have no business intruding their own personal prejudices in the family decisions of single women. Focus on the issue of bugs in strawberries and leave life and death decisions to the rest of us.

LEAVE WHAT TO THE REST OF US??? Only one who has been eating bugs and tarfos can talk like that - See Aruch Hashulchan Youra Deiah and other authoreities who as you suggest should not get involved in moral issues as, for example, the talmud or Pirkei Avos

42

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:38 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Open Your Eyes Says:

Look on the streets, look at all the kids that grow up in single parent homes, 90% of the time there is something (wrong) there. yes, there are always exceptions to the rule but generally speaking just open your eyes & you'll see that is the truth. We don't need a scientific study that the sky is blue.

I think there is "somthing wrong" with the posters and rabbonim they cite who make such absurd generalizations that children from singe parent families are dysfunctional. The clinical data shows quite to the contrary. That is one of the reasons why virtually all of the economically developed countries of the world and most states in the U.S. have changed their laws in recent years to remove and stigma from singles adopting children or allowing single women to use public funding and insurance to have in-vitro fertilization. Those rabbonim who refuse to read this literatire should step aside and not be issuing poseks on somthing they know so little about.

43

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:36 AM Science diagrees Says:

Reply to #14  
Open Your Eyes Says:

Look on the streets, look at all the kids that grow up in single parent homes, 90% of the time there is something (wrong) there. yes, there are always exceptions to the rule but generally speaking just open your eyes & you'll see that is the truth. We don't need a scientific study that the sky is blue.

Ummmmmm, the sky isn't really blue...

I'm not sure what the halachic issue is with a single woman having a child. Either IVF from an anonymous sperm donor is mutar or it isn't. I'm not sure what the relationship status of the woman has to do with it.

44

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:30 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

"We don't need a scientific study that the sky is blue."

On the contrary, even when you have scientific studies stating the obvious, like the world is over 6,000 years old, you still don't believe it.

"“"We don't need a scientific study that the sky is blue."
Hmm ... wrong description LoL it happens to be that scientific studies has proven that the "sky is actually NOT BLUE!!! :)
(i.e...the perceiving blue sky color is due to "rayleigh scattering". As light moves through the atmosphere...and is absorbed by the gas molecules. The absorbed blue light is then radiated in different directions. It gets scattered all around the sky. Whichever direction you look, some of this scattered blue light reaches you. Since you see the blue light from everywhere overhead, the sky looks blue.)

45

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:30 AM Single Woman Says:

Reply to #31  
chief doofis Says:

Allowing unwed women to have IVF, may set us upon a slippery slope. I am aware of one young lady, who had IVF, who was / perhaps still is, a lesbian. I think that she is shomeret Shabbat, and I saw the child wearing a kippah. Nonetheless, is that a proper home for a child? Where do you draw the line? What about a girl who is a Bat Kohen?

Of course, you will always have the unfortunate young woman, whose biological clock is running down, and would like to have a child. How many fellows did she date, and didn't like the fact that they had receding hairlines, or whose taste in music differed from their own? How many boys weren't learning in the "right" Yeshiva, or weren't earning enough to satisfy them?

At the eleventh hour, often after seeing hundreds of boys, they are waking up? Methinks the "shidduch crisis" is a two way street!

Many men who say they would like to get married seem to think that marriage is a halachic arrangement for the purpose of sex and sperm donation.

The idea that marriage is a relationship that takes effort seems lost on them. They are not willing to invest anything emotionally. They claim that the gemarra supports their belief that they are only capable of being supportive in a physical manner. Therefore, it is My desire to maintain halacha ("shomer negia") that makes me undesirable.

I would like to marry someone who takes some responsibility for his actions, and keeps the Torah because he has Yiras Shamayim. Contrary to your very narrow-minded beliefs, my friends are still pursuing their dream of marrying a mentsch who takes halacha seriously, even when it is a bit of a challenge. They would also prefer if the relationship is more than skin deep.

We want to get married, but we don't want to get divorced shortly after.

46

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:32 AM Uncommon Sense Says:

With enough money their is no disadvantage

47

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:31 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

This is one of the most file and painful comments, in a series of such mindless comments, coming from these rabbonim. There are many legitimate reasons under daas torah why a single woman would want to have a child and there is more than sufficient evidence that they are fully capable of raising such children to be well adjusted, wonderful and loving boys and girls who are shomrei torah u'mitzvot. Will the rav stand in the maternity wards of the hospital and block the doctors from delivering these babies since the numbers of single jewish women (including frum women) bearing children is growing by about 15% per year (according to health ministry data) and this Burstien will have no affect on these numbers (other than embarrassing himself by his words).


You can look at the beutifull side of things but truth has more than one side to it.

There are many different situations where AI could be used and how and Halachic oppions vary and not everyone agrees on what the Halacha is

What this means is that such born child can go to school and other children can make the claim that he is a Mamzer or Sofek Mamzer and they may be 100 percent correct about it

Further more this child can go to yeshiva and try to become a gadol and then people will say that our gedolim are such...

That's all we need!

48

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:30 AM deep thinker Says:

Of course they suffer greatly in many ways. they have no father to bring them up. they have no idea who their father is, halachicly it's wrong. they may end up marrying their fathers child unbeknown to them which is a proper sibling. it enacts many halacha problems. and it's sick.

49

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:39 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
sg Says:

I love blanket and generic statements. " there is not one rabbinical religious authority in the world allowing a single woman to give birth". Oh Really? I have heard a number of gedolim talk about a widow who had her husbands sperm frozen prior to his getting ill. His illness prevented him from having kids, so before it got too late, the rabbonim allowed him to freeze his sperm. He was niftar and now she wants to artificially inseminate from her husband.

Not every case is so clear cut and I wish these rabbanim would choose their words more carefully before they open their mouths and spout utter nonsense or inaccuracies. They do more harm then good and the subject is usually a machlokes anyways. just pasken privately and stay quiet!

in that it the sperm was from her HUSBAND this article is talking about an anonymous donor

50

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #37  
Anonymous Says:

I suggest you go online and you will find dozens of sperm banks in EY and the U.S. which openly advertise "jewish donors" so please know what you are talking about before you make such stupid comments.

"jewish donors"
Hmm "Jewish" defined and attested by WHO !? Are you serious? Jewish nowadays can be anyone that "considers" himself Jewish by filling out any form . eg. he can be categorized as Jewish even though his mother is non-Jewish ...by just having a grandfather as a Jew.

51

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:52 AM David Says:

Reply to #14  
Open Your Eyes Says:

Look on the streets, look at all the kids that grow up in single parent homes, 90% of the time there is something (wrong) there. yes, there are always exceptions to the rule but generally speaking just open your eyes & you'll see that is the truth. We don't need a scientific study that the sky is blue.

You realize, Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor was raised by a single mother?

52

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:50 AM formally Says:

Reply to #23  
FVNMS Says:

Your interpretation of halacha frightens me. I hope I am not understanding your last statement (sarcasm?), and that nobody takes it seriously.

the issue did not come up there was no IVt and that time so you do not know what the Torah says about

53

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:50 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38  
AuthenticSatmar Says:

Why isn't this Rabbi entitled to his opinion any more than the readers and commentors of this site. Would all those criticizing please stand up and show your credentials. Whyat has happened to fair and honest debate?

Better yet how about getting out of the debate as the fair and honest debate requires aspects of knowledge...(and intelligence) and, as you mention, credentials. There is no reason halachic issues are being debated at all by the laity

54

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:44 AM formally Says:

Reply to #42  
Anonymous Says:

I think there is "somthing wrong" with the posters and rabbonim they cite who make such absurd generalizations that children from singe parent families are dysfunctional. The clinical data shows quite to the contrary. That is one of the reasons why virtually all of the economically developed countries of the world and most states in the U.S. have changed their laws in recent years to remove and stigma from singles adopting children or allowing single women to use public funding and insurance to have in-vitro fertilization. Those rabbonim who refuse to read this literatire should step aside and not be issuing poseks on somthing they know so little about.

there is probably a diffidence if a person deliberate seeks out to become a single mother than a person who happens to have a child out of wedlock

55

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:21 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #45  
Single Woman Says:

Many men who say they would like to get married seem to think that marriage is a halachic arrangement for the purpose of sex and sperm donation.

The idea that marriage is a relationship that takes effort seems lost on them. They are not willing to invest anything emotionally. They claim that the gemarra supports their belief that they are only capable of being supportive in a physical manner. Therefore, it is My desire to maintain halacha ("shomer negia") that makes me undesirable.

I would like to marry someone who takes some responsibility for his actions, and keeps the Torah because he has Yiras Shamayim. Contrary to your very narrow-minded beliefs, my friends are still pursuing their dream of marrying a mentsch who takes halacha seriously, even when it is a bit of a challenge. They would also prefer if the relationship is more than skin deep.

We want to get married, but we don't want to get divorced shortly after.

So when you find that perfect imaginery hosbend just let me know......

Do ypou think that your men must be perfect and the wife just sitting around enjoying his perfectness

Aint gonna happen lady!! both sides have to work their marrige up with a continues struggle for shlaimuth and its a long way to go



56

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:20 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #47  
Anonymous Says:


You can look at the beutifull side of things but truth has more than one side to it.

There are many different situations where AI could be used and how and Halachic oppions vary and not everyone agrees on what the Halacha is

What this means is that such born child can go to school and other children can make the claim that he is a Mamzer or Sofek Mamzer and they may be 100 percent correct about it

Further more this child can go to yeshiva and try to become a gadol and then people will say that our gedolim are such...

That's all we need!

If children were to call another child names because of how they were conceived or whether or not there is a father, then we would have to ask where and how those children learned to be so mean and got such ignorant ideas.

57

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:18 AM Anonymous Says:

having lost my father at a young age, i can honestly say there is a huge difference between growing up in a household with and without a father; and i especially see/saw the difference in regards to my younger siblings who did not have as many years as myself, to grow up with both parents. Thank god we all came out ok...That said, I do not belive it is healthy for a child to grow up in a single parent home or a house with 2 parents of the same gender, if there is a choice (obviously if a parent dies that wouldnt be considered a choice, unless the parent was deathly ill...).

58

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:17 AM Anonymous Says:

So the child suffers greatly? Does the child suffer more than NOT being born?

59

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:17 AM For Shame Says:

You have a question in Halacha - you go ask your Rav. He is not required to debate you on the internet as to whether he is basing his p'sak on Halacha or on morals. It is your function to listen and accept his p'sak. You bloggers write like you only believe in Halacha if it fits into your "beliefs" and life style. That's the reform movements way.
HaRav S.Z. Aurbach ZT"L said that one should not even attend a Bris of a child that is born without "chupa v'kiddusihn".
And can you imagine the horrors this child will go thru trying to do a shidduch (unless he marries into one these bloggers families).

60

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:34 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #56  
Anonymous Says:

If children were to call another child names because of how they were conceived or whether or not there is a father, then we would have to ask where and how those children learned to be so mean and got such ignorant ideas.

What happens when all adults (not only children) look at our most respected leaders, perhaps even Gedolim and say that the highly respected leader has no real normal father, not because of an accident but by deliberate premeditated intentional design, never mind the Kovod they get if they learn the mother did this simply as a matter of convenience.

How much respect will the next generation get, when a person is no longer a person but a Vending Machine product, Mechanically produced at will in which ever way is most convenient?

61

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:35 AM Meir Says:

Reply to #51  
David Says:

You realize, Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor was raised by a single mother?

As was the president of the United States and Bill Clinton

62

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:32 AM Anonymous Says:

If single women would be allowed to have children, girls would never get married. The only reason a girl would get married (in my community at least ) is to have children. And then they usually end up with a lot more children than they can handle. A husband is usually another child, or worse. So of course, he needed to retract his opinion-the men need someone to marry.

63

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #59  
For Shame Says:

You have a question in Halacha - you go ask your Rav. He is not required to debate you on the internet as to whether he is basing his p'sak on Halacha or on morals. It is your function to listen and accept his p'sak. You bloggers write like you only believe in Halacha if it fits into your "beliefs" and life style. That's the reform movements way.
HaRav S.Z. Aurbach ZT"L said that one should not even attend a Bris of a child that is born without "chupa v'kiddusihn".
And can you imagine the horrors this child will go thru trying to do a shidduch (unless he marries into one these bloggers families).

"Can you imagine the horrors this child will go thru trying to do a shidduch (unless he marries into one these bloggers families)"

What horrors? (other than perhaps to have to suffer the shame of having machatunim such as yourself to deal with). Your narrow minded and hateful perspective that would focus on whether the chasan's mother was married or not when he was concieved, it beyond stupid. It reflects the type of thinking and sinas chinam that would say, who cares if the chasan is an ehrleche yid, is shomrei torah umitzvot, has a good parnassah and loves my daugher. Instead, I'll ask my rav for psak if my daughter is allowed to marry someone whose mother had invitro fertilzation.


64

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #59  
For Shame Says:

You have a question in Halacha - you go ask your Rav. He is not required to debate you on the internet as to whether he is basing his p'sak on Halacha or on morals. It is your function to listen and accept his p'sak. You bloggers write like you only believe in Halacha if it fits into your "beliefs" and life style. That's the reform movements way.
HaRav S.Z. Aurbach ZT"L said that one should not even attend a Bris of a child that is born without "chupa v'kiddusihn".
And can you imagine the horrors this child will go thru trying to do a shidduch (unless he marries into one these bloggers families).

Why should the child be punished? Are you saying that orthodox people are prejudiced against and punish and ostracize a child because of the mother or the circumstances of their birth? If some people were prejudiced against children coming from large families you would never say that is a reason not to have a big familiy.

65

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:25 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #39  
"Government is not the solution to our problem government IS the problem " Says:

It would be much better if we heard the direct quotes in their entirety in the language they were spoken. I am sure he said the right thing but when you see a snippet, people tend to react on the translated sentence rather than on the point. There is no doubt the people "offended" by this comment were the liberals among us.

Just think of the halachik ramifications of a sperm donation..... the kid would ONLY be able to marry a Ger Tzedek because they "could be" related to just about anyone else.

No. They could have dna tests to make sure they aren't siblings. In any event, the risk is estremely tiny. Even without IVF, there is still always a risk of marrying a sibling that you don't know is a sibling (yes, orthodox people have affairs too, just like they have pedophiles and alcoholics.)

66

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:24 AM Sota Mayor Says:

Reply to #51  
David Says:

You realize, Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor was raised by a single mother?

Yes, and we will pay a huge price for that....

67

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:07 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #54  
formally Says:

there is probably a diffidence if a person deliberate seeks out to become a single mother than a person who happens to have a child out of wedlock

There are several rabbonim and other ehrleche yidden who have been born to mothers out of wedlock and gone on to become great leaders of klal yisroel so your comments have no basis. We focus on the individual, not on his yichus.

68

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #60  
Anonymous Says:

What happens when all adults (not only children) look at our most respected leaders, perhaps even Gedolim and say that the highly respected leader has no real normal father, not because of an accident but by deliberate premeditated intentional design, never mind the Kovod they get if they learn the mother did this simply as a matter of convenience.

How much respect will the next generation get, when a person is no longer a person but a Vending Machine product, Mechanically produced at will in which ever way is most convenient?

First of all, it's no one's business how someone was conceived. Second, only people with very narrow minds would look down on someone because their mother wanted a child so badly that she went through the risks, expenses and difficulties of IVF to bring that wonderful child into the world. Do we really care what those people think?

69

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:41 AM Anonymous Says:

it dosn t matter if the mother is married or not . the child is a MAMZER and is forbidden to marry any kosher Jew

70

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:40 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #62  
Anonymous Says:

If single women would be allowed to have children, girls would never get married. The only reason a girl would get married (in my community at least ) is to have children. And then they usually end up with a lot more children than they can handle. A husband is usually another child, or worse. So of course, he needed to retract his opinion-the men need someone to marry.

I disagree. Women will continue to get married for the same reasons they have always married - for love, intimacy, companionship, mutual financial and emotional support, etc.

71

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:53 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #69  
Anonymous Says:

it dosn t matter if the mother is married or not . the child is a MAMZER and is forbidden to marry any kosher Jew

you are ignorant of halacha. being born out of wedlock has nothing to do with being a mamzer.

what are we going to do now, take children away from single mothers and fathers?

72

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:45 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #61  
Meir Says:

As was the president of the United States and Bill Clinton

Obama was also raised by his grandparents.

73

 Aug 17, 2009 at 12:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #71  
Anonymous Says:

you are ignorant of halacha. being born out of wedlock has nothing to do with being a mamzer.

what are we going to do now, take children away from single mothers and fathers?

being born not by his father married to his mother is a mamzer
" what are we going to do now" dosn t change the halacha

74

 Aug 17, 2009 at 12:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #51  
David Says:

You realize, Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor was raised by a single mother?

No wonder she is pro-choice.

75

 Aug 17, 2009 at 12:38 PM Dave Says:

Reply to #73  
Anonymous Says:

being born not by his father married to his mother is a mamzer
" what are we going to do now" dosn t change the halacha

If the mother is not married, how is the child a mamzer?

76

 Aug 17, 2009 at 12:16 PM Use Your Head Says:

Reply to #19  
formally Says:

please link or state study

it has been proven that a child born to a single woman from in vitro insemination suffers greatly."

I as since I would like to know why, why it should be different than a married woman who gave birth through ivf and then lost her husband

Surely you jest. The obvious difference is that in that case, the single-parent situation only arises after the fact, whereas in the situation being discussed, one intentionally brings a child into a single-parent family in the first place.

Is that not obvious?

77

 Aug 17, 2009 at 12:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #69  
Anonymous Says:

it dosn t matter if the mother is married or not . the child is a MAMZER and is forbidden to marry any kosher Jew

I don't think you know the rules of Mamzerus. If the woman is single he is not a mamzer. There is no forbidden relationship involved here. Also despite claims to the contrary, R' Moshe limited his psak to only getting the sperm from goyim (this was for a married couple where the husband doesn't have sperm). And he strongly discourages it while not assuring it. The sperm donors have to be goyim in order to eliminate the problem of marrying a sibling (in halacha a sibling from the same goyish donor would not be a sibling that is is assur to marry). All that said, I do not think it is a good idea to allow single women to be inseminated by goyim so that they can have children before their bio clock ticks out. It is one thing to end up in a single parent home because of tragedy and yet another to create it.

78

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:54 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #69  
Anonymous Says:

it dosn t matter if the mother is married or not . the child is a MAMZER and is forbidden to marry any kosher Jew

"If single women would be allowed to have children, girls would never get married."

Um, it happens whether you "allow" it or not...

79

 Aug 17, 2009 at 01:23 PM formally Says:

Reply to #77  
Anonymous Says:

I don't think you know the rules of Mamzerus. If the woman is single he is not a mamzer. There is no forbidden relationship involved here. Also despite claims to the contrary, R' Moshe limited his psak to only getting the sperm from goyim (this was for a married couple where the husband doesn't have sperm). And he strongly discourages it while not assuring it. The sperm donors have to be goyim in order to eliminate the problem of marrying a sibling (in halacha a sibling from the same goyish donor would not be a sibling that is is assur to marry). All that said, I do not think it is a good idea to allow single women to be inseminated by goyim so that they can have children before their bio clock ticks out. It is one thing to end up in a single parent home because of tragedy and yet another to create it.

with dna testing an one now use a jewish donor?

80

 Aug 17, 2009 at 01:18 PM Robert Says:

Reply to #77  
Anonymous Says:

I don't think you know the rules of Mamzerus. If the woman is single he is not a mamzer. There is no forbidden relationship involved here. Also despite claims to the contrary, R' Moshe limited his psak to only getting the sperm from goyim (this was for a married couple where the husband doesn't have sperm). And he strongly discourages it while not assuring it. The sperm donors have to be goyim in order to eliminate the problem of marrying a sibling (in halacha a sibling from the same goyish donor would not be a sibling that is is assur to marry). All that said, I do not think it is a good idea to allow single women to be inseminated by goyim so that they can have children before their bio clock ticks out. It is one thing to end up in a single parent home because of tragedy and yet another to create it.

women should be allowed to do anything they deem appropriate regarding their reproductive issues as long as it conforms to halacha.

from a medical perspective, its probably better to be inseminated by goyim than jews as it diversifies the gene pool and makes for healthier offspring.

81

 Aug 17, 2009 at 01:14 PM Robert Says:

Reply to #73  
Anonymous Says:

being born not by his father married to his mother is a mamzer
" what are we going to do now" dosn t change the halacha

halacha is very fastidious as to the definition of a mamzer..
for practical purposes ( i am not a rabbi) it requires physical intimacy between forbidden partners ( such as a brother/ sisiter or a married jewish woman with a man not her husband) that results in the birth of a live child.

if a single jewish woman has a child by any man , married, single, or nonjew.. the child born to such a union is both jewish and NOT a mamzer.

82

 Aug 17, 2009 at 01:09 PM Robert Says:

Reply to #68  
Anonymous Says:

First of all, it's no one's business how someone was conceived. Second, only people with very narrow minds would look down on someone because their mother wanted a child so badly that she went through the risks, expenses and difficulties of IVF to bring that wonderful child into the world. Do we really care what those people think?

unfortunately, there are segments and communities that care very much what other people think.. the only one that matters is what God thinks.

83

 Aug 17, 2009 at 01:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #69  
Anonymous Says:

it dosn t matter if the mother is married or not . the child is a MAMZER and is forbidden to marry any kosher Jew

mamzer ? why? its terrible but not mamzer

84

 Aug 17, 2009 at 01:50 PM scmaness Says:

there are 2 questions here-if these are jewish doners does the fact of mamzer come up and the child should be born from the mivkah. 3rd-as it says in tanya the sperms comes from the father brain so therefore this is a case for the rov

85

 Aug 17, 2009 at 01:47 PM sg Says:

so growing up with a loving single parent, "even" a mother, is worse than having 2 parents of which one or both may be abusive, alcoholic, drug addicted, a gonif, a public chilul hashem, tax evader or money launderer. AND, this single parented child will be worse off and have more problems than any of these other kids.

Sounds right to me. Thank God my own Rabbonim have more seichel than this Rov.

86

 Aug 17, 2009 at 01:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #64  
Anonymous Says:

Why should the child be punished? Are you saying that orthodox people are prejudiced against and punish and ostracize a child because of the mother or the circumstances of their birth? If some people were prejudiced against children coming from large families you would never say that is a reason not to have a big familiy.

Please don't go there.

87

 Aug 17, 2009 at 01:40 PM metaher sherets beshivim Says:

it is obvious that some of you guys will come up with the most bizzare reasons to suit your personal preferences, that's being metaher sheretz beshivim

88

 Aug 17, 2009 at 01:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #81  
Robert Says:

halacha is very fastidious as to the definition of a mamzer..
for practical purposes ( i am not a rabbi) it requires physical intimacy between forbidden partners ( such as a brother/ sisiter or a married jewish woman with a man not her husband) that results in the birth of a live child.

if a single jewish woman has a child by any man , married, single, or nonjew.. the child born to such a union is both jewish and NOT a mamzer.

If so, then No Get is No Problem.

Every Married Women can have multiple children from multiple other men, while still remining married to someone else, as as long as she uses modern technology.

89

 Aug 17, 2009 at 01:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #34  
Anonymous Says:

I doubt any of these rabbonim have a childless daughter who has dealt with this issue. If so, they would not be so heartless to deny them the joys of motherhood. Not every yiddeshe girl will find her beschert and they shouldn't be punished by also denying them the joy and nachas of motherhood. They will be able to devote all their time and resources to the care and nurturing of the child.

No. But if the rabbi is correct, then G-d has. As he has many childless couples. G-d obviously has a different mission for them.

90

 Aug 17, 2009 at 02:04 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #80  
Robert Says:

women should be allowed to do anything they deem appropriate regarding their reproductive issues as long as it conforms to halacha.

from a medical perspective, its probably better to be inseminated by goyim than jews as it diversifies the gene pool and makes for healthier offspring.

r moshe clearly states not to take from jews only from goim and in israel where the rov is jews its a problam even with r moshe

91

 Aug 17, 2009 at 01:09 PM Anonymous Says:

this poses SO many halachik issues, I dont see the point in discussing here on this blog.

who can the kid marry? a ger tzedek probably would be the only one, as he/she would possibly be related to almost everyone.

92

 Aug 17, 2009 at 01:07 PM Robert Says:

Reply to #62  
Anonymous Says:

If single women would be allowed to have children, girls would never get married. The only reason a girl would get married (in my community at least ) is to have children. And then they usually end up with a lot more children than they can handle. A husband is usually another child, or worse. So of course, he needed to retract his opinion-the men need someone to marry.

your statement appears to me as shallow and anti-marriage as you disparage men.

there are sources that say a woman is not obligated to have children ..
if any one knows differently please let me know

93

 Aug 17, 2009 at 01:04 PM Robert Says:

Reply to #59  
For Shame Says:

You have a question in Halacha - you go ask your Rav. He is not required to debate you on the internet as to whether he is basing his p'sak on Halacha or on morals. It is your function to listen and accept his p'sak. You bloggers write like you only believe in Halacha if it fits into your "beliefs" and life style. That's the reform movements way.
HaRav S.Z. Aurbach ZT"L said that one should not even attend a Bris of a child that is born without "chupa v'kiddusihn".
And can you imagine the horrors this child will go thru trying to do a shidduch (unless he marries into one these bloggers families).

i find it strange that a rabbi would discourage attending a brit milah under any conditions,,, can you give me a source for this statement.

as for finding a mate, we all have to rely on God, im sure that he will provide for all jews who seek a mate in sincerity and with respect for all of his creations.

94

 Aug 17, 2009 at 12:48 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #40  
Anonymous Says:

Frum single women having children, conception via intro. And who are the fathers since halacha does not permit men as donors. Gentiles?

What you are suggesting here is a myth

Why myth? Yes, the sperm most certainly can be a gentile's. For married couples in which the husband cannot conceive, a gentile sperm donor is the only possible halachically acceptable (by some) option. Otherwise you get into issues of eishes ish, etc...

95

 Aug 17, 2009 at 12:46 PM AWK Says:

However a prohibition with no meaningful sanction is largely irrelevant. The child is kosher (not a mamzer). Being the victim of lashon ha-ra is an annoyance but hardly a penalty. The obvious solution is to locate such women before they get pregnant and find a shiduch for them.

96

 Aug 17, 2009 at 02:08 PM Robert Says:

Reply to #88  
Anonymous Says:

If so, then No Get is No Problem.

Every Married Women can have multiple children from multiple other men, while still remining married to someone else, as as long as she uses modern technology.

you raise an interesting point
that again assumes no physical intimacy between the woman and the sperm donors...

it could get worse, what if she gets hormonal stimulation and then harvests a bunch of eggs for implantation .. be it in her uterus or someone elses

God is testing us in this generation

is a woman halachicly obligated to have children in the first palce?
or is that obligation on men only?

97

 Aug 17, 2009 at 02:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

what is the halacha?

Why don't you ask your Rabbi? Do people don't have their own rabbis these days? Are you really expecting to get a halachic ruling here on VIN?

98

 Aug 17, 2009 at 02:36 PM Yankel Says:

Reply to #62  
Anonymous Says:

If single women would be allowed to have children, girls would never get married. The only reason a girl would get married (in my community at least ) is to have children. And then they usually end up with a lot more children than they can handle. A husband is usually another child, or worse. So of course, he needed to retract his opinion-the men need someone to marry.

"The only reason a girl would get married (in my community at least ) is to have children. "
It sounds like the girls in your community are some kind of lifeless drones.

99

 Aug 17, 2009 at 03:31 PM formally Says:

Reply to #89  
Anonymous Says:

No. But if the rabbi is correct, then G-d has. As he has many childless couples. G-d obviously has a different mission for them.

I am not so sure about that statement,

maybe i should not wear contact since g-d meant I should have bad eye's
Don't get chemo since g-d meant you to die.
why should I go to the doctor at all, g-d meant me to be sick
and there are many other, sometimes medical things peole do have children is that against G-ds will.

Maybe g-d let doctors to invent invitro so couple can have children?

I do not know but to say one should not look at an option in nonsense, either it is permissible or not

100

 Aug 17, 2009 at 03:29 PM chief doofis Says:

Reply to #45  
Single Woman Says:

Many men who say they would like to get married seem to think that marriage is a halachic arrangement for the purpose of sex and sperm donation.

The idea that marriage is a relationship that takes effort seems lost on them. They are not willing to invest anything emotionally. They claim that the gemarra supports their belief that they are only capable of being supportive in a physical manner. Therefore, it is My desire to maintain halacha ("shomer negia") that makes me undesirable.

I would like to marry someone who takes some responsibility for his actions, and keeps the Torah because he has Yiras Shamayim. Contrary to your very narrow-minded beliefs, my friends are still pursuing their dream of marrying a mentsch who takes halacha seriously, even when it is a bit of a challenge. They would also prefer if the relationship is more than skin deep.

We want to get married, but we don't want to get divorced shortly after.

I find it impossible to believe that there are no young men who value your choice to be "shomeret n'giah". I raised several sons who are not extremely right wing, yet respect the laws of nidda (n'giah included). I'm sure that they are not unique (although to me, they are).

Your painting of all young men with a broad brush, may well be your downfall. Just ride the subways, look at the fellows learning on their way to work. Look at the fine young men making minyanim between college classes, or after work hours. Yiras Shamayim exists. When you have preconceived notions that it doesn't , you won't find it.

101

 Aug 17, 2009 at 03:34 PM formally Says:

Reply to #90  
Anonymous Says:

r moshe clearly states not to take from jews only from goim and in israel where the rov is jews its a problam even with r moshe

do a dna test

102

 Aug 17, 2009 at 03:49 PM Pentakika Says:

"Judaism does not permit one person's happiness at the expense of another, and it has been proven that a child born to a single woman from in vitro insemination suffers greatly."

In my opinion this statement makes sense, in terms of protecting the nuclear family. Child(ren) needs both a mother and a father. Take this analogy for example. A fledgling tree in a park is supported by two wooden pegs so that it will grow straight. So too, a child should be supported by his/her mother and father to grow straight (in the path of Torah). There are many statistics that prove that children function better (mentally, emotionally, etc.) when both parents are in the household.

Im not a halachic authority, but my opinion is that by having a child through sperm donation allows her to fulfill the 1st Torah commandment (incumbent on everyone): To be fruitful and multiply!

103

 Aug 17, 2009 at 03:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #31  
chief doofis Says:

Allowing unwed women to have IVF, may set us upon a slippery slope. I am aware of one young lady, who had IVF, who was / perhaps still is, a lesbian. I think that she is shomeret Shabbat, and I saw the child wearing a kippah. Nonetheless, is that a proper home for a child? Where do you draw the line? What about a girl who is a Bat Kohen?

Of course, you will always have the unfortunate young woman, whose biological clock is running down, and would like to have a child. How many fellows did she date, and didn't like the fact that they had receding hairlines, or whose taste in music differed from their own? How many boys weren't learning in the "right" Yeshiva, or weren't earning enough to satisfy them?

At the eleventh hour, often after seeing hundreds of boys, they are waking up? Methinks the "shidduch crisis" is a two way street!

You assume a lot about single women. I know of a number of women who were willing to overlook flaws/differences in hashkafa, etc. to get married but ended up being dropped (usually due to the man having committment issues). Everybody has challenges in life, and this is a nisayon decreed by Hashem for countless numbers of women in this generation. Who are you to arrogantly decide that they have brought it on themselves? (Also if you think they have dated "hundreds of boys" you are sadly mistaken. I've been dating around 10 years and have dated maybe 35 boys.)

104

 Aug 17, 2009 at 03:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #94  
Anonymous Says:

Why myth? Yes, the sperm most certainly can be a gentile's. For married couples in which the husband cannot conceive, a gentile sperm donor is the only possible halachically acceptable (by some) option. Otherwise you get into issues of eishes ish, etc...

The myth is that frum single women are doing this

105

 Aug 17, 2009 at 03:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #31  
chief doofis Says:

Allowing unwed women to have IVF, may set us upon a slippery slope. I am aware of one young lady, who had IVF, who was / perhaps still is, a lesbian. I think that she is shomeret Shabbat, and I saw the child wearing a kippah. Nonetheless, is that a proper home for a child? Where do you draw the line? What about a girl who is a Bat Kohen?

Of course, you will always have the unfortunate young woman, whose biological clock is running down, and would like to have a child. How many fellows did she date, and didn't like the fact that they had receding hairlines, or whose taste in music differed from their own? How many boys weren't learning in the "right" Yeshiva, or weren't earning enough to satisfy them?

At the eleventh hour, often after seeing hundreds of boys, they are waking up? Methinks the "shidduch crisis" is a two way street!

You obviously have no idea what it is like to date for 10 or 15+ years and get nowhere. Who said all these single women are so picky? I know several women who were willing to compromise and marry somebody with differences in hashkafa or interests or who had flaws they were willing to overlook, however in the end the man was the one who ended things (in all cases due to commitment issues). You assume a lot when you have no idea what it is like to be in this situation; you display an extremely arrogant attitude. Everybody has challenges in life, and they aren't always things a person has control over.
How would you like to be judged over a challenge you struggle with and told that you brought in on yourself?

106

 Aug 17, 2009 at 02:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #89  
Anonymous Says:

No. But if the rabbi is correct, then G-d has. As he has many childless couples. G-d obviously has a different mission for them.

Or he gave us the means to address the problem, just like he gave the means to develop treatments for cancer, artificial limbs and eyeglasses. If someone couldn't see without eye glasses, would you say that G-d meant for the person not to be able to see so he could develop his other senses? Would you tell the person who had a leg amputated not to use a prosthetic because meant for him not to walk?

107

 Aug 17, 2009 at 02:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #29  
Anonymous Says:

So, what is the role of a single woman in orthodox society? Shouldn't an orthodox community be the best place for a woman to raise a child without a father? Isn't it supposed to be a warm, close-knit caring community that looks after each other?

Oh, give me a break, look at all the divorced women with children who are completely ignored in our "warm, close-knit caring community." I know many.

108

 Aug 17, 2009 at 02:40 PM Reality Check Says:

The circumstances that lead to these questions are a testament to the fact that there are too many G-d Fearing Jews who are having difficulty finding an appropriate, spouse with whom to build a viable future.

That is a tragedy that should bother us.

There are various reasons and causes, but the bottom line is that people are suffering deeply. A single adult who has tried unsuccessfully to find a compatible spouse experiences an existential loneliness that is beyond words, Rachman Litzlan. The pain, emptiness, and hopelessness should trigger our empathy, and our tefillos, and if possible our hishtadlus.

Inconsiderate, disparaging comments about women on this particular topic are a reflection of a lack of kavod habrios on the part of the commenter. Quoting halacha in the process of making a disparaging comment, is a particularly vile form of ona'as devorim.

May HaShem help all those who genuinely want to build a bayis ne'eman b'yisrael.

Sim shalom tova u'vracha, chaim, chen v'chesed v'rachamim aleynu v'al kol yisrael amecha, barcheinu avinu, kulanu k'echad.....

109

 Aug 17, 2009 at 02:36 PM happily married w/effort Says:

Reply to #45  
Single Woman Says:

Many men who say they would like to get married seem to think that marriage is a halachic arrangement for the purpose of sex and sperm donation.

The idea that marriage is a relationship that takes effort seems lost on them. They are not willing to invest anything emotionally. They claim that the gemarra supports their belief that they are only capable of being supportive in a physical manner. Therefore, it is My desire to maintain halacha ("shomer negia") that makes me undesirable.

I would like to marry someone who takes some responsibility for his actions, and keeps the Torah because he has Yiras Shamayim. Contrary to your very narrow-minded beliefs, my friends are still pursuing their dream of marrying a mentsch who takes halacha seriously, even when it is a bit of a challenge. They would also prefer if the relationship is more than skin deep.

We want to get married, but we don't want to get divorced shortly after.

with your atitute my dear, youre not going to get married! many women think the same as these men, to start having kids and they dont all get divorced.
and yes every marriage takes effort even with the perfect men out there. and since when are men emotionless?

110

 Aug 17, 2009 at 02:33 PM puhleeeeze Says:

And I, as a single woman, must be sentenced to a life of childlessness because of the absurd shidduch pressures, and the unwillingness of most frum men to commit? Oh, I see. As long as the rabbi says I should remain barren. Sounds like a plan. I wonder what he'll say when the Jewish population starts dying out because of his ruling.

111

 Aug 17, 2009 at 04:21 PM esther Says:

Reply to #34  
Anonymous Says:

I doubt any of these rabbonim have a childless daughter who has dealt with this issue. If so, they would not be so heartless to deny them the joys of motherhood. Not every yiddeshe girl will find her beschert and they shouldn't be punished by also denying them the joy and nachas of motherhood. They will be able to devote all their time and resources to the care and nurturing of the child.

each of us has many tests in life.some nisyonos are almost to hard to bare but Hashem gives us each the koach we need.i don't want to sound heartless but in the end it's not about my ideas about what will make me happy or what rationally seems
fair.it's about what Hahem wants and as frum yidden we know this means following halacha even when it's very difficult.

112

 Aug 17, 2009 at 04:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #110  
puhleeeeze Says:

And I, as a single woman, must be sentenced to a life of childlessness because of the absurd shidduch pressures, and the unwillingness of most frum men to commit? Oh, I see. As long as the rabbi says I should remain barren. Sounds like a plan. I wonder what he'll say when the Jewish population starts dying out because of his ruling.

hows about you say yes to the next guy u go out with that wants you. how fast will you run the other way?????? you know no one is perfect and no marriage is perfect. and no you should not have kids if youre not married. how would anyone know that a person didnt get pregnant fooling around? ppl will wear signs ivf?

113

 Aug 17, 2009 at 04:43 PM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #110  
puhleeeeze Says:

And I, as a single woman, must be sentenced to a life of childlessness because of the absurd shidduch pressures, and the unwillingness of most frum men to commit? Oh, I see. As long as the rabbi says I should remain barren. Sounds like a plan. I wonder what he'll say when the Jewish population starts dying out because of his ruling.

Seeing your pain, let me try to give you some advice. Maybe go to Israel to look for your Basherta. There, you will have a much bigger selection then here. If you choose to stay here and wait, I wish you to find your Basherta Bikoroiv.

114

 Aug 17, 2009 at 04:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #111  
esther Says:

each of us has many tests in life.some nisyonos are almost to hard to bare but Hashem gives us each the koach we need.i don't want to sound heartless but in the end it's not about my ideas about what will make me happy or what rationally seems
fair.it's about what Hahem wants and as frum yidden we know this means following halacha even when it's very difficult.

Except he also gives us science and medicine to help more woman have children. As for following halacha, halacha is not always so clear and reasonable rabbis can differ.

115

 Aug 17, 2009 at 04:36 PM esther Says:

Reply to #42  
Anonymous Says:

I think there is "somthing wrong" with the posters and rabbonim they cite who make such absurd generalizations that children from singe parent families are dysfunctional. The clinical data shows quite to the contrary. That is one of the reasons why virtually all of the economically developed countries of the world and most states in the U.S. have changed their laws in recent years to remove and stigma from singles adopting children or allowing single women to use public funding and insurance to have in-vitro fertilization. Those rabbonim who refuse to read this literatire should step aside and not be issuing poseks on somthing they know so little about.

so sorry but study after study shows that children from 2 parent households do better academically and emotionality.the reason why the "stigma" has been removed is because that's what PC demands.liberals want everyone to feel good regardless of the actual personal or monetary costs.

116

 Aug 17, 2009 at 05:16 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:

Reply to #102  
Pentakika Says:

"Judaism does not permit one person's happiness at the expense of another, and it has been proven that a child born to a single woman from in vitro insemination suffers greatly."

In my opinion this statement makes sense, in terms of protecting the nuclear family. Child(ren) needs both a mother and a father. Take this analogy for example. A fledgling tree in a park is supported by two wooden pegs so that it will grow straight. So too, a child should be supported by his/her mother and father to grow straight (in the path of Torah). There are many statistics that prove that children function better (mentally, emotionally, etc.) when both parents are in the household.

Im not a halachic authority, but my opinion is that by having a child through sperm donation allows her to fulfill the 1st Torah commandment (incumbent on everyone): To be fruitful and multiply!

As a matter of fact, priviah v'riviah is not "incumbent on everyone". women are patur. The mitzvah is only incumbent on men.

117

 Aug 17, 2009 at 04:31 PM Lost in the comments Says:

I am in no way defending IV for single women or otherwise, for that matter. But I personally resent the reason given for its issur is that the child will grow up unhappy. Of course, l'chatchilah, every child is supposed to grow up in a two-parent family and with lots of other givens. I lost my father at an extremely young age. Of course, I missed out on having a father. But I don't think that it's halachically sound to give that as a reason for a matter that should be based on a halachic psak. If this is a psychological argument, of course, children need two parents. That is an eitzah and not a psak.
I just want to keep things clear here instead of getting caught up in emotions.

118

 Aug 17, 2009 at 06:48 PM A Says:

Reply to #108  
Reality Check Says:

The circumstances that lead to these questions are a testament to the fact that there are too many G-d Fearing Jews who are having difficulty finding an appropriate, spouse with whom to build a viable future.

That is a tragedy that should bother us.

There are various reasons and causes, but the bottom line is that people are suffering deeply. A single adult who has tried unsuccessfully to find a compatible spouse experiences an existential loneliness that is beyond words, Rachman Litzlan. The pain, emptiness, and hopelessness should trigger our empathy, and our tefillos, and if possible our hishtadlus.

Inconsiderate, disparaging comments about women on this particular topic are a reflection of a lack of kavod habrios on the part of the commenter. Quoting halacha in the process of making a disparaging comment, is a particularly vile form of ona'as devorim.

May HaShem help all those who genuinely want to build a bayis ne'eman b'yisrael.

Sim shalom tova u'vracha, chaim, chen v'chesed v'rachamim aleynu v'al kol yisrael amecha, barcheinu avinu, kulanu k'echad.....

Yours are the kindest and most understanding words I've seen written here.

119

 Aug 17, 2009 at 06:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #110  
puhleeeeze Says:

And I, as a single woman, must be sentenced to a life of childlessness because of the absurd shidduch pressures, and the unwillingness of most frum men to commit? Oh, I see. As long as the rabbi says I should remain barren. Sounds like a plan. I wonder what he'll say when the Jewish population starts dying out because of his ruling.

Puhleeze: I feel your pain and anger. You have other options. There are other communities.

120

 Aug 17, 2009 at 06:59 PM No One Approves Says:

Since the Satmar Rov does not approve in any case and even Reb Moshe approves only for a Married women where the husband has a problem and even this only Beshaas Hadchak so non of the prior generation giants ever approved so which Kaley Hadaas woke up to approve it today?

121

 Aug 17, 2009 at 06:54 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #107  
Anonymous Says:

Oh, give me a break, look at all the divorced women with children who are completely ignored in our "warm, close-knit caring community." I know many.

That's the point. If the best interests of the children is what drove the community, neighbors would be falling all over themselves to help these woman with their children and make sure the children have close and caring relationships with other adults.

122

 Aug 17, 2009 at 07:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #63  
Anonymous Says:

"Can you imagine the horrors this child will go thru trying to do a shidduch (unless he marries into one these bloggers families)"

What horrors? (other than perhaps to have to suffer the shame of having machatunim such as yourself to deal with). Your narrow minded and hateful perspective that would focus on whether the chasan's mother was married or not when he was concieved, it beyond stupid. It reflects the type of thinking and sinas chinam that would say, who cares if the chasan is an ehrleche yid, is shomrei torah umitzvot, has a good parnassah and loves my daugher. Instead, I'll ask my rav for psak if my daughter is allowed to marry someone whose mother had invitro fertilzation.


Well madam, whether you like or not and whether it sounds logical to you or not, Halacha is still above all. And YES, the answer whether the potential chussen/kallah is a kosher child determines and always will determine the shidduch.
It might sound 'old-fashioned' to stress on such 'non-important' (as u call it) things, but the Torah will NEVER change and so will we always follow all rules and Halachas dictating us Kidisha. Maybe in your inner reform circles it doesn't play to much volume, but that's is in fact the reason why assimilation is always the result of your non-sense religion. And to the contrary, it isn't appalling that Orthodox Jewry is the only nation which is still existing since the world was creating. And the simple answer is: we LIVE our mitzvos.

123

 Aug 17, 2009 at 05:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #102  
Pentakika Says:

"Judaism does not permit one person's happiness at the expense of another, and it has been proven that a child born to a single woman from in vitro insemination suffers greatly."

In my opinion this statement makes sense, in terms of protecting the nuclear family. Child(ren) needs both a mother and a father. Take this analogy for example. A fledgling tree in a park is supported by two wooden pegs so that it will grow straight. So too, a child should be supported by his/her mother and father to grow straight (in the path of Torah). There are many statistics that prove that children function better (mentally, emotionally, etc.) when both parents are in the household.

Im not a halachic authority, but my opinion is that by having a child through sperm donation allows her to fulfill the 1st Torah commandment (incumbent on everyone): To be fruitful and multiply!

A woman is not halachically obligated in "be fruitful and multiply"
And a child born to an unmarried woman is not a Mamzer, as has been pointed out by many posters.

However, most women have an urge to nurture and raise a child. Also in our communities women who are not mothers (married or unmarried) feel very left out. Many social activities revolve around schools and camps and children in general.

So what can the single woman do? One option is to become a foster or adoptive parent. There are Jewish children who need loving homes. Another option is for there to be a respectable role in the community for single people, which at this time, there is not.

I met a single woman once who was Orthodox and went to a shul in Queens. She had a child by artificial insemmination. She said she was glad she did and there were several women in her shul who did the same, and it was sanctioned by their Rabbi.
I'm not sure what the answer is. I would hope that there is room within the Torah for what people need, in one way or another. In some cases, the person must change, but society also may need to change. or we will continue to lose people.

124

 Aug 17, 2009 at 05:23 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:

Reply to #96  
Robert Says:

you raise an interesting point
that again assumes no physical intimacy between the woman and the sperm donors...

it could get worse, what if she gets hormonal stimulation and then harvests a bunch of eggs for implantation .. be it in her uterus or someone elses

God is testing us in this generation

is a woman halachicly obligated to have children in the first palce?
or is that obligation on men only?

See my previous post. Only men have an halachic obligation to have children. The reason is that since childbirth poses a risk of life to the mother, she is not required to endanger herself to fulfill the comandment.

125

 Aug 17, 2009 at 05:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Rather than discuss in vitro and other artificial forms of conception, why not discuss foster child and adoption practices, giving the disadvantaged child and better chance of a norma life? A stable single mother is much more a parent than a disfunctional or dangerous 2 parent home, etc.

126

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #125  
Anonymous Says:

Rather than discuss in vitro and other artificial forms of conception, why not discuss foster child and adoption practices, giving the disadvantaged child and better chance of a norma life? A stable single mother is much more a parent than a disfunctional or dangerous 2 parent home, etc.

I agree that option should also be explored but not just for single parents - married couples who can't conceive or who want children or more children should be adopting and fostering. If two parents are better than one, more orthodox couples should be adopting and serving as foster parents. There are millions of children all over the world who need stable, loving homes that orthodox families can provide.

127

 Aug 17, 2009 at 07:59 PM esther Says:

Reply to #114  
Anonymous Says:

Except he also gives us science and medicine to help more woman have children. As for following halacha, halacha is not always so clear and reasonable rabbis can differ.

science and medicine must also follow halacha.yes reasonable rabbis can and do have differing opinions.that's not the same thing as making up your own halacha.

128

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:32 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Gadolwannabe Says:

"It has been proven that a child born to a single woman from in vitro insemination suffers greatly." And a child born into a family of 13 has it so great? It is a judgment call and Rabbi's have no business intruding their own personal prejudices in the family decisions of single women. Focus on the issue of bugs in strawberries and leave life and death decisions to the rest of us.

Good answer. I come from a family of 13 kids and I don't know my parents and my kids don't know there grandparents. Every family is different of course. But that also why you can't stereo type every single mother into one bucket. If you would do research on big families you can also come back with all kinds of different theories and studies, many of them not positive.

129

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #125  
Anonymous Says:

Rather than discuss in vitro and other artificial forms of conception, why not discuss foster child and adoption practices, giving the disadvantaged child and better chance of a norma life? A stable single mother is much more a parent than a disfunctional or dangerous 2 parent home, etc.

Unless you adopted in lieu of having your own biological children, you should not be telling others to adopt or be a foster parent. It sounds nice and I am a big proponent of adoption, but most of the people who preach adoption satisfied their own urges to have a biological child.

130

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #129  
Anonymous Says:

Unless you adopted in lieu of having your own biological children, you should not be telling others to adopt or be a foster parent. It sounds nice and I am a big proponent of adoption, but most of the people who preach adoption satisfied their own urges to have a biological child.

You made absolutely no sense. The idea that adoption is a wonderful alternative to conceiving outside a traditional marriage may be difficult for you to stomach, but to the aging single it makes all the sense in the world.

131

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM Bugsy Siegel Says:

Reply to #3  
zissy Solomon Says:

Yes, he stands correct. His claim comes from the pediatric journal published last summer the September issue. The article was written by Dr. Vincent stamford who specializes in psychology in children who where born from ivf treatment or out of wedlock.

I am sorry, but I do not see where Dr. Vincent Stamford printed such an article. Which journal was it published in? What was the title of the paper? I did not find a Dr. Vincent Stamford. I am sorry but your statement is not credible until I find a reference. I am surprised nobody called him out on this before.

132

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:46 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #131  
Bugsy Siegel Says:

I am sorry, but I do not see where Dr. Vincent Stamford printed such an article. Which journal was it published in? What was the title of the paper? I did not find a Dr. Vincent Stamford. I am sorry but your statement is not credible until I find a reference. I am surprised nobody called him out on this before.

Bugsy, I'd also like to see a cite. A search of Medline yields no article by Dr. Vincent Stamford in Pediatrics or any other peer-reviewed journal. Additionally, a google search for "Vincent Stamford" yields only post #3 as a result.

133

 Aug 18, 2009 at 01:08 AM Single Woman Says:

Reply to #100  
chief doofis Says:

I find it impossible to believe that there are no young men who value your choice to be "shomeret n'giah". I raised several sons who are not extremely right wing, yet respect the laws of nidda (n'giah included). I'm sure that they are not unique (although to me, they are).

Your painting of all young men with a broad brush, may well be your downfall. Just ride the subways, look at the fellows learning on their way to work. Look at the fine young men making minyanim between college classes, or after work hours. Yiras Shamayim exists. When you have preconceived notions that it doesn't , you won't find it.

Singles (men and women) are subjected to all sorts of unsolicited advice by self-righteous individuals who have yet to learn how to say a kind word.
I did not mean to paint all young men with a broad brush.
There are wonderful, G-d fearing men out there who are having just as much trouble finding a compatible spouse.
The fact that we are having trouble doesn't necessarily mean that we are too picky.

The topic at hand focuses on the frustration of women who want to live within the parameters of halacha, despite their circumstances.
Whether or not it is a good idea, they are apparently seeking a halachically permissible way to have children before it is too late.

My comment came from my personal experience.
It did not come from preconceived notions.
Last I checked, "shomeres n'giah" is not a choice, any more than "shomeres shabbos", or "shomeres kashrus".
Many of us have been ridiculed by prospective shidduchim for maintaining our standards in halacha.
I don't know how you can be so sure that that isn't true?

Learning gemarah on the train, and daavening with a minyan are certainly noble attributes.
Unfortunately, neither of those ensures that a man (or woman) has yiras shamayim when he is on a date.
Or surfing the web.
Treating a woman with respect is a social skill, usually learned at home.
It is included in the mitvah of V'ahavta L'ray'acha Kamocha.

Presumably, your "several sons" came from a relationship that was - and hopefully still is - workable.
You have a choice of thanking Hashem for that gift, or arrogantly shoving it in the face of those who have not been so blessed.

134

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Sadly, there are many women who will never get married as there is a shortage of men. it is very easy for this rabbi (and a father of ten) to condemn these women to (what is in their eyes) a barren existence: no one to bring up, no simchas to look forward to, no grandchildren, no one to love. as long as it is halachically permitted,who has the right to take this away from them?

On another note, looking at the misery and poverty in these houses of 10 and 15 children, I personally think its better to be a coddled child of a single mother then a miserable child in a two parent family. Lets face it, all those two parent Israeli chredi families arent producing much happiness

135

 Aug 18, 2009 at 09:02 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #134  
Anonymous Says:

Sadly, there are many women who will never get married as there is a shortage of men. it is very easy for this rabbi (and a father of ten) to condemn these women to (what is in their eyes) a barren existence: no one to bring up, no simchas to look forward to, no grandchildren, no one to love. as long as it is halachically permitted,who has the right to take this away from them?

On another note, looking at the misery and poverty in these houses of 10 and 15 children, I personally think its better to be a coddled child of a single mother then a miserable child in a two parent family. Lets face it, all those two parent Israeli chredi families arent producing much happiness

i dont come from a large family, nor do i have a large family. being good parents has nothing to do with the amount of children a person has. BUT having a large family is much more challenging then having 4 to 6 children.
did our founder of bais yaakov have any children?
singles stop dwelling, and move on.
and if no men have yiras shamayim, (that cant be) then you help them get there!

136

 Aug 18, 2009 at 10:51 AM Learn before you write Says:

Reply to #63  
Anonymous Says:

"Can you imagine the horrors this child will go thru trying to do a shidduch (unless he marries into one these bloggers families)"

What horrors? (other than perhaps to have to suffer the shame of having machatunim such as yourself to deal with). Your narrow minded and hateful perspective that would focus on whether the chasan's mother was married or not when he was concieved, it beyond stupid. It reflects the type of thinking and sinas chinam that would say, who cares if the chasan is an ehrleche yid, is shomrei torah umitzvot, has a good parnassah and loves my daugher. Instead, I'll ask my rav for psak if my daughter is allowed to marry someone whose mother had invitro fertilzation.


I am happy that you end of by agreeing to ask your Rov whether your daughter may marry someone born of IVF. And if that Rov has any knowledge of Halacha, he will tell you an absolute NO - guaranteed. Unless there is issue with your child and your marriage (in which some cases it is allowed).
By the way, following halacha doesn't make you narrow minded nor hateful. If you choose to ignore halacha or "couldn't care less", then your child will end up marrying someone that is definitely not a "zera meyuchas" - due to your faulty chinuch.

137

 Aug 18, 2009 at 10:57 AM Correction please Says:

Reply to #73  
Anonymous Says:

being born not by his father married to his mother is a mamzer
" what are we going to do now" dosn t change the halacha

NO - the child is nt necessarily a Mamzer. It may be a mamzer (if the sperm comes from a "chayvei lavin") or it may not be a "zera meyuchos", and even a "ben nidah", "ben goy", etc.
Definitely second or third rate merchandise in Klal Yisroel (well below a ger and a ball teshuva)

138

 Aug 18, 2009 at 11:04 AM Look it up Says:

Reply to #93  
Robert Says:

i find it strange that a rabbi would discourage attending a brit milah under any conditions,,, can you give me a source for this statement.

as for finding a mate, we all have to rely on God, im sure that he will provide for all jews who seek a mate in sincerity and with respect for all of his creations.

V'alehu Lo Yibol, Chelek 2
He additionally adds that previous generations would have made that bris in a dungeon out of shame. But our genration has nebech no shame. As you can see from the bloggers here - many think that Kedushas Yisroel and Am Yisroel is all in the heart, without concern for Halacha.

139

 Aug 18, 2009 at 12:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #136  
Learn before you write Says:

I am happy that you end of by agreeing to ask your Rov whether your daughter may marry someone born of IVF. And if that Rov has any knowledge of Halacha, he will tell you an absolute NO - guaranteed. Unless there is issue with your child and your marriage (in which some cases it is allowed).
By the way, following halacha doesn't make you narrow minded nor hateful. If you choose to ignore halacha or "couldn't care less", then your child will end up marrying someone that is definitely not a "zera meyuchas" - due to your faulty chinuch.

“I am happy that you end of by agreeing to ask your Rov whether your daughter may marry someone born of IVF. And if that Rov has any knowledge of Halacha, he will tell you an absolute NO - guaranteed. "
What??? IVF is muttar for married couples who have trouble conceiving, according to almost every major Rav. There is only a minority opinion that there is anything assur about it and it is not the opinion followed. I assume you meant to say you would ask your Rav about this situation - where a woman gets pregnant via insemination of donor sperm in order to have a child without a husband. Different things completely.

140

 Aug 18, 2009 at 01:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #136  
Learn before you write Says:

I am happy that you end of by agreeing to ask your Rov whether your daughter may marry someone born of IVF. And if that Rov has any knowledge of Halacha, he will tell you an absolute NO - guaranteed. Unless there is issue with your child and your marriage (in which some cases it is allowed).
By the way, following halacha doesn't make you narrow minded nor hateful. If you choose to ignore halacha or "couldn't care less", then your child will end up marrying someone that is definitely not a "zera meyuchas" - due to your faulty chinuch.

can you quote a source that is guaranteed?

141

 Aug 18, 2009 at 01:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #124  
Raphael Kaufman Says:

See my previous post. Only men have an halachic obligation to have children. The reason is that since childbirth poses a risk of life to the mother, she is not required to endanger herself to fulfill the comandment.

You are correct on the halacha. You are not correct on the reason as this would imply that men need not be concerned about putting a women in danger. Where did you get this idea from?

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 Aug 18, 2009 at 05:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #137  
Correction please Says:

NO - the child is nt necessarily a Mamzer. It may be a mamzer (if the sperm comes from a "chayvei lavin") or it may not be a "zera meyuchos", and even a "ben nidah", "ben goy", etc.
Definitely second or third rate merchandise in Klal Yisroel (well below a ger and a ball teshuva)

What do you consider "Premium Merchandise"
does that mean 2nd tier can not marry down to 3rd tier or up to first tier?

what is your ranling in the yichus category?

143

 Aug 18, 2009 at 05:05 PM Robert Says:

Reply to #137  
Correction please Says:

NO - the child is nt necessarily a Mamzer. It may be a mamzer (if the sperm comes from a "chayvei lavin") or it may not be a "zera meyuchos", and even a "ben nidah", "ben goy", etc.
Definitely second or third rate merchandise in Klal Yisroel (well below a ger and a ball teshuva)

it sounds like you believe the jewish people are in a caste system?
rabbi akiva the great by his actions disproves your casting and branding

144

 Aug 18, 2009 at 07:17 PM Robert Says:

Reply to #116  
Raphael Kaufman Says:

As a matter of fact, priviah v'riviah is not "incumbent on everyone". women are patur. The mitzvah is only incumbent on men.

if you are correct in your statement why does the torah use the plural and not the singular?
or put another way who does the plural refer to if its only a man? (it started out one man and one woman)

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 Aug 18, 2009 at 09:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #139  
Anonymous Says:

“I am happy that you end of by agreeing to ask your Rov whether your daughter may marry someone born of IVF. And if that Rov has any knowledge of Halacha, he will tell you an absolute NO - guaranteed. "
What??? IVF is muttar for married couples who have trouble conceiving, according to almost every major Rav. There is only a minority opinion that there is anything assur about it and it is not the opinion followed. I assume you meant to say you would ask your Rav about this situation - where a woman gets pregnant via insemination of donor sperm in order to have a child without a husband. Different things completely.

of course - you are right - that is what this whole subject matter is about.

146

 Aug 19, 2009 at 03:40 AM YS Says:

Having met Rabbi Burstein I would share three thoughts:
1)For any specific questions or specific cases why don't you contact Puah? They are the sweetest people and will stretch the Halacha to utmost of their understanding to help couples.
2)Regarding R' Burstein. Yes his opinions are on the conservative side of halacha. He is also extremely sensitive to people and understands the pain of the people he tries to help. He deals with dozens of cases, sometimes dozens in a day. The sense that I got when I met with him was that he is doing his best to help people while maintaing a halachic consensus.
3)I think they are trying to have everyone in the religious world agree with their rulings. It means that the rulings are conservative but it also means that down the line you don't have Yossi not marrying Ruchama because she was born through a Halachicly questionable procedure and is interpretation of the halacha is that she's not Jewish.

/YS

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