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Brooklyn, NY - Rabbi Shea Hecht: Rubashkin Will Be Vindicated

Published on: October 18, 2009 04:05 PM
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Rabbi Shea HechtBrooklyn, NY - Activist and President of The National Committee  for Furtherance of Jewish Education Rabbi Shea Hecht declared on the Dov Hikind show  last night that embattled businessman Sholom Rubashkin will be vindicated. 

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Rabbi Hecht strongly argued that the Rubashkin case puts all Orthodox Jews on trial, claiming that the U.S. justice system needs improvement.  As an example, the rabbi cited the recent New Jersey arrests in which every defendant with a Jewish last name had bail raised to double or triple that of their non-Jewish counterparts.

The interview was conduct by community activist Jo Lazar.

Listen to the entire one-hour clip below. starts at Min. 6:00



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1

 Oct 18, 2009 at 04:13 PM lishma Says:

he will be vindicated when the sun will rise from the west

2

 Oct 18, 2009 at 04:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
lishma Says:

he will be vindicated when the sun will rise from the west

Bez'h he will be vindicated . I dont know him and I am not a Lubavitcher ,just a fellow yid concerned about a brothers tzaar .

3

 Oct 18, 2009 at 04:59 PM joe Says:

I was in south Dakota let me say 1] he has amazing lawyers 2] the prosecutor is doing a pretty bad job so far 3] its starting look like the American GOV is regretting this whole situation they feel on top of the world when they carry out raids but in the court room they don't seem so strong in front of a south Dakota jury I hope we will hear some really good news soon IY"h just we need to keep the tehillm up full time

4

 Oct 18, 2009 at 05:03 PM anonymous Says:

Rubashkin iinvolves Rubashkin and I have no connection with the case. It does not involved all Jews and it is chutzpah to make a klal yisroel issue. The indictment list Rubashkin and not me

5

 Oct 18, 2009 at 05:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
joe Says:

I was in south Dakota let me say 1] he has amazing lawyers 2] the prosecutor is doing a pretty bad job so far 3] its starting look like the American GOV is regretting this whole situation they feel on top of the world when they carry out raids but in the court room they don't seem so strong in front of a south Dakota jury I hope we will hear some really good news soon IY"h just we need to keep the tehillm up full time

While his lawyers have a good reputation, so do the prosecutors. I have no idea why you think the government regrets this prosecution since they typically win about 85 percent of these trials (as of 2007, the last year for which there is data). The South dakota jury is not going to buy the defense theory that SMR simply had no idea that he was violating all these laws since he was trained as a Rav, and as we all know, rabbonim should not be expected to understand basic rules governing business, truthful disclosure and taxes. This variation of "I'm just a dumb country farmer" (aka I'm just a simple rav from BP) will not get a good reception with the jury.

6

 Oct 18, 2009 at 04:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Hecht can spew his mindless rants about this great antisemtic conspiracy but don't include the rest of us in the same gutter as Rubashkin and those Jersey types who engaged in a variety of crimes. This victimization shtick simply won't work anymore. If Hechet wants to lower himself to the level of Rubashkin and the others, thats his problem but don't drag klal yisroel into this.

7

 Oct 18, 2009 at 05:36 PM a fellow yid Says:

Reply to #4  
anonymous Says:

Rubashkin iinvolves Rubashkin and I have no connection with the case. It does not involved all Jews and it is chutzpah to make a klal yisroel issue. The indictment list Rubashkin and not me

Ve`ahavta Lereiecha Komocha!!! Hashem should help that he should be set free, bekorov mamash.

8

 Oct 18, 2009 at 05:27 PM Anonymous Says:

To most of the commenters: shame on you! As Jews, you have an obligation to do all you can and pray for your fellow Jew. Pidyon Shvuyim is an obligation in Jewish law. What kind of "G-D fearing" Jews are you who feel nothing for their brother/sister. This is one of the most important mitzvahs there is. The facts speak for themselves; there is definitely an anti-semitic bent here and if you don't see it or feel for your fellow, then the day will come when you might be in the same position. If you don't realize the era we are in and that we must all do tshuva, well - Good Luck!




'

10

 Oct 18, 2009 at 05:28 PM Anonymous Says:

I myself am a frum person and it def pains me to see rubashkin in that situation. But let there be no mistake. I can sympathize with him .I even understand that running a slaughterhouse fully legit with everyone being legal to work is a big hurdle to pass. Nevertheless it does not make him not guilty if the jury finds him guilty.ignorance or hardship or anti semitism by officials does not mean that it becomes legalto trump the law of a country. I myself work in a industry where there is a lot cash involved and it def is sometimes easier to just take the cash and not declare on the tax returns but I will never proclaim that I didn't do anything wrong.I know that accepting cash comes with a risk and is not legal

11

 Oct 18, 2009 at 05:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Rubashkin dug a hole for himself and his his supporters seem determined to dig it deeper. If his lawyers were as smart as some suggest, they would negotiate a plea deal (which apparently they tried without success). If convicted, he may spend much of the rest of his life in jail. A plea agreement may be the best chance he has to see his family again.

12

 Oct 18, 2009 at 05:21 PM anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

Hecht can spew his mindless rants about this great antisemtic conspiracy but don't include the rest of us in the same gutter as Rubashkin and those Jersey types who engaged in a variety of crimes. This victimization shtick simply won't work anymore. If Hechet wants to lower himself to the level of Rubashkin and the others, thats his problem but don't drag klal yisroel into this.

Apparently Rubashkin has a lot of money to throw around and had he acted with more business prudence the whole issue would not be in a Federal Court

13

 Oct 18, 2009 at 06:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

To most of the commenters: shame on you! As Jews, you have an obligation to do all you can and pray for your fellow Jew. Pidyon Shvuyim is an obligation in Jewish law. What kind of "G-D fearing" Jews are you who feel nothing for their brother/sister. This is one of the most important mitzvahs there is. The facts speak for themselves; there is definitely an anti-semitic bent here and if you don't see it or feel for your fellow, then the day will come when you might be in the same position. If you don't realize the era we are in and that we must all do tshuva, well - Good Luck!




'

We have an oblkigation to support upstanding Jews who do things l'shaim shomayim.

There is no obligation to support theives who steal and then cry anti-semitism when thay get caught.

14

 Oct 18, 2009 at 07:36 PM Charlie Hall Says:

The idea that the Rubashkin case puts "all Orthodox Jews on trial" is absolute nonsense. The only thing that the case has to do with being Jewish is that except for the allegations of immigration violations, the charges include allegations of things that violate halachah as well as secular law. And the allegations of money laundering, charity fraud, sale of counterfeit merchandise, and other financial matters that the New Jersey defendants are accused of are also violations of halachah. I'm totally willing to wait for a trial to determine guilt or innocence in these cases, but anyone who willfully and repeatedly engages in such conduct is not an Orthodox Jew! We do ourselves a great disservice by implying that such conduct is acceptible.

15

 Oct 18, 2009 at 07:32 PM Anonymous Says:

B"H
I don't know rubashkin and I gave 1100 to the legal defensee fund because I am a descendent of Avraham Avinuu and jews have rachmanus
love your fellow man as yourself means doing to another as u would want done to u
in this case that means davening givng donations to pay for lawyer , etc
to all the negative posters if rubashkin was u or your father would u be so cold?


16

 Oct 18, 2009 at 07:14 PM A. Nuran Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

Bez'h he will be vindicated . I dont know him and I am not a Lubavitcher ,just a fellow yid concerned about a brothers tzaar .

If he is guilty he SHOULD NOT be vindicated, Jew or Gentile. The Law is the Law, and Justice is Justice. If he committed crimes he must be found guilty and punished accordingly. The moment we say that a person should be acquitted or escape punishment because of his ancestry or religion is the moment where we are forced to support the anti-Semites who say a Jew must be found guilty because he is a Jew or a Black man must be lynched simply because he is Black.

It really is that simple.

17

 Oct 18, 2009 at 07:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Omayn! From Shea Hecht's mouth to G-d's ears!

18

 Oct 18, 2009 at 07:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Contrary to Hecht's assertions, the U.S. system of justice is the least imperfect of any nation in the history of the world and certainly the fairest in terms of its treatment of yidden. His suggestion that Rubashkin's indictment and prosecution is the outcome an anti-semitic plot by the government denigrates our great country which has done more for jews than anyone else (including EY). Let justice be done and if even some of hte allegations are true (which his attorneys have acknowledged in the plea negotiations)the prosecution will be vindicated and show that yidden cannot buy their way out of responsibility for their crimes.

19

 Oct 18, 2009 at 06:46 PM formally Says:

Rabbi Hecht strongly argued that the Rubashkin case puts all Orthodox Jews on trial, claiming that the U.S. justice system needs improvement.


I have a mental block this makes no sense at all. Unless he is saying all Jews defraud banks, cheat their workers, do not comply with environmental laws, what an anti-semite.
If you think he is innocent say so same with the NJ gang, but do not pull that stuz that Judaism or Orthodox Judaism is on trial. I know what he is getting at, he is setting up the public for antisemitism argument if they are found guilty. Or the frum, who only get information from ultra Orthodox sources and will believe anything a rebbie says

20

 Oct 18, 2009 at 06:44 PM Anonymous Says:

I am with Mr. Rubashkin. Lets hope he gets out with minimal charges. He is a very nice fellow

21

 Oct 18, 2009 at 06:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

To most of the commenters: shame on you! As Jews, you have an obligation to do all you can and pray for your fellow Jew. Pidyon Shvuyim is an obligation in Jewish law. What kind of "G-D fearing" Jews are you who feel nothing for their brother/sister. This is one of the most important mitzvahs there is. The facts speak for themselves; there is definitely an anti-semitic bent here and if you don't see it or feel for your fellow, then the day will come when you might be in the same position. If you don't realize the era we are in and that we must all do tshuva, well - Good Luck!




'

If you took the time to study the matter, the mitzvah of pidyon shvuyim evolved from the persecution of yiddin in Europe and elsewhere hundreds of years ago when jews were held for ransom. In this case, the actions by rubashkin taken make it only MORE likely that yidden will be perceived as ganovim and crooks and suspect in their behavior. Does anyone think this proliferation of crimes by yidden doesn't result in more contempt and hatred towards yidden or do you think that goyim just give us the benefit of the doubt. Because of the Madoffs and Rubashkins, poishiter yidden who don't have millions of dollars, who work hard to feed their families, who obey the law as best they can, will be treated more harshly in the unlikely event they engage in any sort of questionable behavior. This is the unspoken tragedy and the biggest chilul hashem that this whole Postville affair has created.

22

 Oct 18, 2009 at 08:22 PM csb Says:

Reply to #16
Till they catch u with something, your talking as u did never do anything wrong,u fool who do u think u are are? 100 percent legit? U know your not , and are u even jewish? We are known for being rachmunim bnei rachmunim u cold hearted foolish yutz, and I know (yes I really know) that whatever he did most and I repeat most bussiness are guilty of too jewish or not

23

 Oct 18, 2009 at 08:27 PM Anonymous Says:

to the people posting negative dribble... why not listen to the interview before commenting on what rabbi hecht said

24

 Oct 18, 2009 at 08:28 PM WB Says:

Reply to #4  
anonymous Says:

Rubashkin iinvolves Rubashkin and I have no connection with the case. It does not involved all Jews and it is chutzpah to make a klal yisroel issue. The indictment list Rubashkin and not me

Kol yisroel arievim zah luzah! Don't u know a plain mishnah?

25

 Oct 18, 2009 at 08:26 PM E Says:

Reply to #11  
Anonymous Says:

Rubashkin dug a hole for himself and his his supporters seem determined to dig it deeper. If his lawyers were as smart as some suggest, they would negotiate a plea deal (which apparently they tried without success). If convicted, he may spend much of the rest of his life in jail. A plea agreement may be the best chance he has to see his family again.

His lawyers were offered a plea deal. Shalom turned it down! They offered him 12 years. The problem is that 12 years means 2 years in some low or minimum security prison before he can be transfered to the Yeshiva in Otisville, where BTW his Brother and Nephew are currently learning. His Brother told him to take the deal and he didnt listen, instead, putting his faith in Hashem above. A very noble gesture, but difficult for anyone who has visited the Yeshiva up there to understand. He is facing a very difficult road ahead of him in fighting all these counts the Government has against him. Hashem should grant him the where with all to face these hurdles with his head held high.

26

 Oct 18, 2009 at 08:04 PM Longwave Says:

Reply to #15  
Anonymous Says:

B"H
I don't know rubashkin and I gave 1100 to the legal defensee fund because I am a descendent of Avraham Avinuu and jews have rachmanus
love your fellow man as yourself means doing to another as u would want done to u
in this case that means davening givng donations to pay for lawyer , etc
to all the negative posters if rubashkin was u or your father would u be so cold?


Would I be so cold if I were Rubashkin? I would admit what I had done and made a deal with the government., like all the other meat companies that hired illegal aliens. Then I would still be in business.

27

 Oct 18, 2009 at 08:02 PM vindicated Says:

Reply to #16  
A. Nuran Says:

If he is guilty he SHOULD NOT be vindicated, Jew or Gentile. The Law is the Law, and Justice is Justice. If he committed crimes he must be found guilty and punished accordingly. The moment we say that a person should be acquitted or escape punishment because of his ancestry or religion is the moment where we are forced to support the anti-Semites who say a Jew must be found guilty because he is a Jew or a Black man must be lynched simply because he is Black.

It really is that simple.

not bad for a goy to write like that, but the thora think difrent than you, and who ever comiited crimes aginst the torha they are the criminal in my eyes, and they who get caught in the legal system in my eyes its does not mean anything what a few toomana goiyim decide, and btw check back history a lot of cases was wrong convicted, so you stop with nonsencd we frum yiden would not look what a goy says anyway we look in torah

28

 Oct 18, 2009 at 08:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
A. Nuran Says:

If he is guilty he SHOULD NOT be vindicated, Jew or Gentile. The Law is the Law, and Justice is Justice. If he committed crimes he must be found guilty and punished accordingly. The moment we say that a person should be acquitted or escape punishment because of his ancestry or religion is the moment where we are forced to support the anti-Semites who say a Jew must be found guilty because he is a Jew or a Black man must be lynched simply because he is Black.

It really is that simple.

Kol hakovod to poster no.16 who so elegantly and simply stated the basic principle that should govern all yidin and goyim. Jews have no greater obligation to defend or punish anyone based on whether they have milah. Those who argue that we must work to free a yid who is found guilty of crimes only encourage them to engage in more crimes. If you accept the concept of pidyon shavuim as some have propounded it, we would be in an endless cycle of working to free repeat criminals.

29

 Oct 18, 2009 at 07:54 PM vindicated Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

We have an oblkigation to support upstanding Jews who do things l'shaim shomayim.

There is no obligation to support theives who steal and then cry anti-semitism when thay get caught.

You sound like a presmart guy. look up history you will see who is the end up winner. the one who is bussy to overwire the gov, or the tzadikim from last generation who help yiddishe peaple make a doller for a leaving, its not a big secret that in all times the semi jewish peaple allways was bussy to be mix up with gentile, and one tool was that the jews are criminale, and ganuvim,

30

 Oct 18, 2009 at 06:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
lishma Says:

he will be vindicated when the sun will rise from the west

You are a Soine Yisroel. I can't understand why such Sinaas Chinom. But, there's a G-d on this world and he KNOWS without doubt - what's really behind your "rightousness" and your statements. Surely you will get yours when the time comes. I'm certain!

31

 Oct 18, 2009 at 06:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

Hecht can spew his mindless rants about this great antisemtic conspiracy but don't include the rest of us in the same gutter as Rubashkin and those Jersey types who engaged in a variety of crimes. This victimization shtick simply won't work anymore. If Hechet wants to lower himself to the level of Rubashkin and the others, thats his problem but don't drag klal yisroel into this.

the only information you know about these cases are from the media and the groups which are trying "do you not hold of innocent till proven guilty"

32

 Oct 18, 2009 at 06:03 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

To most of the commenters: shame on you! As Jews, you have an obligation to do all you can and pray for your fellow Jew. Pidyon Shvuyim is an obligation in Jewish law. What kind of "G-D fearing" Jews are you who feel nothing for their brother/sister. This is one of the most important mitzvahs there is. The facts speak for themselves; there is definitely an anti-semitic bent here and if you don't see it or feel for your fellow, then the day will come when you might be in the same position. If you don't realize the era we are in and that we must all do tshuva, well - Good Luck!




'

Can you please explain how pidyon shvuyim comes into play if SMR is out on bail and not in jail?

These kinds of posts are getting redundantly pathetic. Yes, we daven for every Jew's salvation, including Dreilich the double murderer, Kolko the pedophile, and all the other criminals, accused criminals and assorted members of the tribe. But we also have every right to express our opinions.

Rubashkin did not lead us out of Egypt. He's a wonderful guy in a trouble and everyone hopes he succeeds. But he certainly committed terrible errors in judgment and now he has to answer for those errors.

There is no attack on kashrus, this prosecution is not a witch hunt or a conspiracy against yidden everywhere. This is the result of arrogance. The boro park shtick didn't play well in Iowa and here we are. Get over yourselves.

33

 Oct 18, 2009 at 08:34 PM Dav Says:

I don't like to comment but wow wow!all i can say is don't judge someone until your in his place.AND THAT g-d judges us the same way we judge others so if we want to be forgiven for what we do..and no ones perfect!We don't even realize that what we do on a daily bases may be worse!For those who called him a theif,Have you ever woken up someone while they were sleeping?were you ever late to a meeting thus keeing the other person waiting?that too makes you a theif yes we are all guilty to some extent!But G-D knows we are not perfect He made us that way!

34

 Oct 18, 2009 at 08:43 PM formally Says:

Reply to #22  
csb Says:

Reply to #16
Till they catch u with something, your talking as u did never do anything wrong,u fool who do u think u are are? 100 percent legit? U know your not , and are u even jewish? We are known for being rachmunim bnei rachmunim u cold hearted foolish yutz, and I know (yes I really know) that whatever he did most and I repeat most bussiness are guilty of too jewish or not

very sane arguments,

lets empty all the jails all the people who are punished because of whatever. why, how could you punish me or accuse me of anything are you perfect. great defense , it would not work with sanhendren and it won't work here either.

Why don't you try that next time you get a speeding ticket?


35

 Oct 18, 2009 at 08:59 PM Connection Says:

Reply to #4  
anonymous Says:

Rubashkin iinvolves Rubashkin and I have no connection with the case. It does not involved all Jews and it is chutzpah to make a klal yisroel issue. The indictment list Rubashkin and not me

By your words you are saying you are not part of the statement "Kol yisrael areivim zeh l'zeh" which means the one on the outside is YOU not him. As it is you, by *your own words* who are excluding yourself from the plight of your fellow Jew.

36

 Oct 18, 2009 at 08:49 PM formally Says:

Reply to #27  
vindicated Says:

not bad for a goy to write like that, but the thora think difrent than you, and who ever comiited crimes aginst the torha they are the criminal in my eyes, and they who get caught in the legal system in my eyes its does not mean anything what a few toomana goiyim decide, and btw check back history a lot of cases was wrong convicted, so you stop with nonsencd we frum yiden would not look what a goy says anyway we look in torah

pidyon shavuim if people where taken hostage or imprisoned for not reason.

It was not meant to pidyon shavuim for every low live criminal that we have.

Maybe some should vote for an amendment to the US Constitution, All Jews will be exempt from any prosecution by the US since we are a Goyish country and have no right to prosecute Jews no matter what their crime is.

Why not just come out and say it, YES WE JEWS ARE ABOVE THE LAW, stop beating around the bush

37

 Oct 18, 2009 at 09:20 PM A. Nuran Says:

Reply to #22  
csb Says:

Reply to #16
Till they catch u with something, your talking as u did never do anything wrong,u fool who do u think u are are? 100 percent legit? U know your not , and are u even jewish? We are known for being rachmunim bnei rachmunim u cold hearted foolish yutz, and I know (yes I really know) that whatever he did most and I repeat most bussiness are guilty of too jewish or not

Well, I am Jewish. And I try to stay on the right side of the law and ethics. When I do things that are outside the law - parking in the wrong space, breaking speed limits - I pay the ticket. When I do things that are wrong and am caught I expect that people will not trust me.

Obeying the law and punishing people who are caught breaking it is the foundation of civilization. No society can survive if people know they will get away with doing evil. That's why we have laws in the first place. The Written Torah has 613 laws. It includes punishments for people who are caught breaking them. The Talmud has rules of evidence, standards for qualifying judges, procedures for conducting trials, and punishments for those who do evil things.

This isn't cold-hearted. It is basic human decency. Without it we all become murderers and thieves because there is no Law, there is no Justice, and there are no protections against those who are completely in thrall to the Evil Impulse. All human beings are subject to the Seven Noahide Laws. These include a Positive Commandment to set up courts to punish crimes such as murder and theft.

The guy who wrote comment #2 goes even further. He says a person should be acquitted BECAUSE HE IS JEWISH. That makes it even worse. He's saying that Justice is not Justice if it's applied to us and the Law isn't the Law if we have to obey it. That strikes at the foundation of all civilization and plays right into the hands of the anti-Semites.

38

 Oct 18, 2009 at 09:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #34  
formally Says:

very sane arguments,

lets empty all the jails all the people who are punished because of whatever. why, how could you punish me or accuse me of anything are you perfect. great defense , it would not work with sanhendren and it won't work here either.

Why don't you try that next time you get a speeding ticket?


Formally ,give me your adress ,i'll be offering you a deal with a lot of money involved(not right away when your expecting it,a little latter),we'll see how you stand up.Of course,as the deal will be false(i don't do shtick),youl have no complaints when i turn you in to the fbi.

39

 Oct 18, 2009 at 09:07 PM Mendel Beilis Says:

Reply to #4  
anonymous Says:

Rubashkin iinvolves Rubashkin and I have no connection with the case. It does not involved all Jews and it is chutzpah to make a klal yisroel issue. The indictment list Rubashkin and not me

Remember the story of Mendel Beilis? Just to refresh your memory, Mendel Beilis was a simple factory owner who was accused of a very ugly crime. The rabbonim at the time could have washed their hands of the affair and said "we don't who is lying, for all we know he may have done it, etc." but did they? No. From across the board the most distinguished Rabbonim came to his aid and defense.

The fact is that this case is without a doubt grossly blown out of proportion. In fact, the claims that sensationalized the case (abuse, torture, bombs, drugs, weapons) have all disappeared; instead, now this entire case is based on something that only came up at the end, and wasn't even part of the "scandal". With open eyes you can see that a man is being railroaded.

40

 Oct 18, 2009 at 09:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

We have an oblkigation to support upstanding Jews who do things l'shaim shomayim.

There is no obligation to support theives who steal and then cry anti-semitism when thay get caught.

I thought you were a good American?

He has not yet had a complete and fair trial.

According to your sacred Constitution, how then can you call him a thief?

Heretic, you are!

41

 Oct 18, 2009 at 09:27 PM formally Says:

Reply to #35  
Connection Says:

By your words you are saying you are not part of the statement "Kol yisrael areivim zeh l'zeh" which means the one on the outside is YOU not him. As it is you, by *your own words* who are excluding yourself from the plight of your fellow Jew.

by *your own words* who are excluding yourself from the plight of your fellow criminal Jew. yes

42

 Oct 18, 2009 at 09:25 PM michali Says:

I suggest to the all the self-hating posters to really look inward and try to find your pintele yid. A pintele yid has rachmonus on another yid whether he is guilty or not. I believe that Reb Sholom will be vinidicated and I wish and his family all the best.

43

 Oct 18, 2009 at 09:24 PM Rachmanim bnei rachmanim Says:

I cannot believe that there is still such sinas yisroel out there. I don't mean the Govt. I mean the posters here. Let G-d decide if he is guilty and should receive appropriate results. But, we, as Jews, children of the Avos and Imahos, let us keep up our Tefillah for a fellow Jew who is in trouble. All you sticklers about the law,... of course we have to keep the law stringently, but is everybody here ready for an IRS audit, Govt. raid on a business...without any qualms or fears?
Daven for Sholom Mordechai ben Rivkah. Let Hashem take the next step.

44

 Oct 18, 2009 at 09:24 PM Anonymous Says:

To poster no. 22 and 27. You insult yidden on two levels. First, the substance of your comments is beyond belief and implies as long as somthing is not contrary to halacha, you don't care about civil laws. Second, you insult VIN readers by your incoherent posting and lack of respect for basic English grammer and spelling.

45

 Oct 18, 2009 at 09:23 PM achdus Says:

Reply to #4  
anonymous Says:

Rubashkin iinvolves Rubashkin and I have no connection with the case. It does not involved all Jews and it is chutzpah to make a klal yisroel issue. The indictment list Rubashkin and not me

if, as a yid, you don't believe you are connected to rubashkin, YOU are in a bigger mess than HE is. we are one!

46

 Oct 18, 2009 at 09:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #41  
formally Says:

by *your own words* who are excluding yourself from the plight of your fellow criminal Jew. yes

Intresting how formally is so rentless in attacking rubashkin already sure he is guilty before the trial.Tellingly,the same formally argued about michael jackson,that you should at least give him credit he gave so much charity.

47

 Oct 18, 2009 at 09:48 PM Anonymous Says:

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, LET'S NOT FORGET THE FACTS. THEY DO NOT FIT, AND THEREFORE, YOU MUST ACQUIT!

FELLOW JEWS, THIS IS YOUR WAKE UP CALL, All orthodox jews should remember, that we are on trial now! Rubashkin is only the front cover.

"And remember, not to condemn your fellow Jew,
As, you never know what's waiting next for you"

Good Night Ladies and Gentlemen, God b"h will vindicate Mr. Rubashkin and us all, and God Bless the United States of America with the brains to stop this war!

48

 Oct 18, 2009 at 10:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Guess who is going to suffer if Rubashkin god forbid is found guilty. All of you big mouth's out there. Its all of us tax payers who will pay the expenses for every hour this innocent jew is incarcerated. perhaps if you have no rachmunas on a jewish sole, perhaps knowing that it will cost you some money will get your attention and prayers for this wonderful man!

Good night everyone!!

49

 Oct 18, 2009 at 10:57 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
formally Says:

pidyon shavuim if people where taken hostage or imprisoned for not reason.

It was not meant to pidyon shavuim for every low live criminal that we have.

Maybe some should vote for an amendment to the US Constitution, All Jews will be exempt from any prosecution by the US since we are a Goyish country and have no right to prosecute Jews no matter what their crime is.

Why not just come out and say it, YES WE JEWS ARE ABOVE THE LAW, stop beating around the bush

Where in Halachah did you find this? Just making things up cause it works with your "krum" head doesn't mean halachah agrees with you

50

 Oct 18, 2009 at 10:57 PM A. Nuran Says:

48 & 49, you've already decided that he's innocent. You don't have the evidence. You don't have the arguments. You don't have the law. All you have is the disgusting belief that race determines guilt.

Suppose he were absolutely guilty as sin. Would you still say he should be acquitted? Would you still say he shouldn't do the same time as a Gentile who had been found guilty of the same crimes? If so, you are the ideological heir of the Tsar and the Aryan Nations. You have forgotten the fundamentals of Torah where we are commanded to respect neither rich nor poor but deal justly with all.

51

 Oct 18, 2009 at 10:44 PM Menacem Says:

Let these nasty comments of these few people who hide behind their computers posting nasty stuff, not convince any readers that ths is the representative of the mainstream frum community.

It only makes sense that those who no one would ever listen to in person feel very desperate and post these comments.

52

 Oct 18, 2009 at 10:32 PM A. Nuran Says:

Reply to #44  
Anonymous Says:

To poster no. 22 and 27. You insult yidden on two levels. First, the substance of your comments is beyond belief and implies as long as somthing is not contrary to halacha, you don't care about civil laws. Second, you insult VIN readers by your incoherent posting and lack of respect for basic English grammer and spelling.

Worse that that. Theft, fraud, lying, not paying your workers and treating people with cruelty are all against halacha. If the Rubashkins and Agriprocessors did the these things, then posters 22 and 27 are saying that it does not matter if Jews obey Torah.

53

 Oct 19, 2009 at 12:35 AM stam a yid Says:

to all you 52 people before me who had what to say about sholom rubashkin (for the good or CV otherwise) i say to you, that if you ever knocked on his door for help (even if you showed him your love or hate posting) he would put his hand into his pocket and give you the help you asked for!!!

i ask you:

1) when was the last time you helped a fellow yid?

2) when was the last time you made a cheshbin Hanefesh?

3) are all your children yiray shomayim?

4) can you look yourself in the mirror and say that you are true both inside and out?

5) ask yourself, did my posting on VIN bring us 1 step closer to the geula? (or u don’t believe in the whole moshiach concept altogether)

6) is it because you can sit at home or office (who knows what sites u visit) and say things that you wouldn’t want your spouse- children -chaverim etc to know you said???


54

 Oct 19, 2009 at 06:50 AM formally Says:

Reply to #46  
Anonymous Says:

Intresting how formally is so rentless in attacking rubashkin already sure he is guilty before the trial.Tellingly,the same formally argued about michael jackson,that you should at least give him credit he gave so much charity.

context makes a big difference

1, it was a response to someone who said if you do not support a yid you are not part of the club. However, my comment was saying that should not be the case that we could support every single yid even those that are doing bad things
2. Are far as Michail. give him credit, however, that does not absolve him from the stuff he did. Which some want to use to say if he gave charity must be innocent.

Do not take my words out of context

55

 Oct 19, 2009 at 12:26 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #39  
Mendel Beilis Says:

Remember the story of Mendel Beilis? Just to refresh your memory, Mendel Beilis was a simple factory owner who was accused of a very ugly crime. The rabbonim at the time could have washed their hands of the affair and said "we don't who is lying, for all we know he may have done it, etc." but did they? No. From across the board the most distinguished Rabbonim came to his aid and defense.

The fact is that this case is without a doubt grossly blown out of proportion. In fact, the claims that sensationalized the case (abuse, torture, bombs, drugs, weapons) have all disappeared; instead, now this entire case is based on something that only came up at the end, and wasn't even part of the "scandal". With open eyes you can see that a man is being railroaded.

Exactly!!!! Very well said! When he was trying to save his shirt, that is when he was caught in overestimating???. They are already seeing that the prosecutors are putting them to shame. didan notzach please Hashem.

56

 Oct 19, 2009 at 12:26 AM Anonymous Says:

Guilty or not,the tragedy is that in the US the punsihment for white collar is outrageously stringent, and the life sapping sentences serve as neither fair punishment or deterrent. 12yrs for what??? For running a business and cutting corners. Send him to jail for two years three if he is guilty, but 12yrs!! Can someone rationalise these long sentences??? After 2 yrs in jail the guy has been punished and a million years will never stop jews and non-jews alike whether from BP or Cincinatti, New Orleans or Tenessee!! That is why he deserves our tefillos and support. Punish yes, but in proportion. The gross improportionality here makes this something that should should stir every frum neshoma.

57

 Oct 18, 2009 at 11:40 PM joe Says:

Reply to #50  
A. Nuran Says:

48 & 49, you've already decided that he's innocent. You don't have the evidence. You don't have the arguments. You don't have the law. All you have is the disgusting belief that race determines guilt.

Suppose he were absolutely guilty as sin. Would you still say he should be acquitted? Would you still say he shouldn't do the same time as a Gentile who had been found guilty of the same crimes? If so, you are the ideological heir of the Tsar and the Aryan Nations. You have forgotten the fundamentals of Torah where we are commanded to respect neither rich nor poor but deal justly with all.

your dead wrong the only people who don't have the right to say that he is innocent, our the judge and jury until the case is over, the rest of us can say and think what we want being that we live in a sort of democracy, so stop bashing people for sticking up for him ,I happen to know this case up close and have already sheared my opinon earlier, but I think Mr A. Nuran there are plenty of country's that u can move to if u don't like people calling other people innocent.

58

 Oct 18, 2009 at 11:28 PM Anonymous Says:

It is only those who are jealous, conservative or in competition with Rubashkin who are wishing him chas v'sholom. You are believing the media and base your wishes accordingly, What a shame. feh feh
Any normal yid wish him the best because they know that he was not fairly treated. He could have been warned and then he would work something out with the gov't. THERE EXISTS a goyishe slaughter house not far and they have not intentions to catch them. There is proof that there are German anti semites running Iowa and the prosecutors are very anti semitic. There is proof that the videos from Peta are distorted. Pidyon Shvooyim is valid when the punishment does not match the law transgressed. With all that he is charged he did not hurt a soul. Losing his business is enough of a punishment. If they would not take away his employees he would still be in business and theThe banks wouldn't be losing .

59

 Oct 19, 2009 at 08:06 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #57  
joe Says:

your dead wrong the only people who don't have the right to say that he is innocent, our the judge and jury until the case is over, the rest of us can say and think what we want being that we live in a sort of democracy, so stop bashing people for sticking up for him ,I happen to know this case up close and have already sheared my opinon earlier, but I think Mr A. Nuran there are plenty of country's that u can move to if u don't like people calling other people innocent.

I think that Mr A Nuran has no problem living in the same country as you, he's bothered by your opinion, but not by your presence. However if you have a problem residing in the same place as people who don't go along with your thinking, then I suggest you move to a place which permits only one voice, yours!

60

 Oct 19, 2009 at 07:55 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #53  
stam a yid Says:

to all you 52 people before me who had what to say about sholom rubashkin (for the good or CV otherwise) i say to you, that if you ever knocked on his door for help (even if you showed him your love or hate posting) he would put his hand into his pocket and give you the help you asked for!!!

i ask you:

1) when was the last time you helped a fellow yid?

2) when was the last time you made a cheshbin Hanefesh?

3) are all your children yiray shomayim?

4) can you look yourself in the mirror and say that you are true both inside and out?

5) ask yourself, did my posting on VIN bring us 1 step closer to the geula? (or u don’t believe in the whole moshiach concept altogether)

6) is it because you can sit at home or office (who knows what sites u visit) and say things that you wouldn’t want your spouse- children -chaverim etc to know you said???


You're not stam a yid, you are a yid with an opinion. As much as I respect what you are saying, it does not treat the issue at hand.
Shlomo Rubashkin may be a big baal tsedakka, with a big heart for his fellow jews. No doubt his zechusim will stand by him, both in this world and in the world to come.
But if he did not respect that dinah demalchusah dinah, and he was caught by the malchus he deceived, he has to bear the consequences.
It doesn't mean that those who don't get caught are not guilty.
Sooner or later we shall all have to be accountable for our actions.

61

 Oct 19, 2009 at 09:31 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #60  
Anonymous Says:

You're not stam a yid, you are a yid with an opinion. As much as I respect what you are saying, it does not treat the issue at hand.
Shlomo Rubashkin may be a big baal tsedakka, with a big heart for his fellow jews. No doubt his zechusim will stand by him, both in this world and in the world to come.
But if he did not respect that dinah demalchusah dinah, and he was caught by the malchus he deceived, he has to bear the consequences.
It doesn't mean that those who don't get caught are not guilty.
Sooner or later we shall all have to be accountable for our actions.

he was caught by "Union" !!!!!!!

62

 Oct 19, 2009 at 10:23 AM formally Says:

Reply to #58  
Anonymous Says:

It is only those who are jealous, conservative or in competition with Rubashkin who are wishing him chas v'sholom. You are believing the media and base your wishes accordingly, What a shame. feh feh
Any normal yid wish him the best because they know that he was not fairly treated. He could have been warned and then he would work something out with the gov't. THERE EXISTS a goyishe slaughter house not far and they have not intentions to catch them. There is proof that there are German anti semites running Iowa and the prosecutors are very anti semitic. There is proof that the videos from Peta are distorted. Pidyon Shvooyim is valid when the punishment does not match the law transgressed. With all that he is charged he did not hurt a soul. Losing his business is enough of a punishment. If they would not take away his employees he would still be in business and theThe banks wouldn't be losing .

please post your proof since you have proof it should be very easy just saying it is not proof

For those who say the union remember the trial that is going on now is for bank fraud and not about the illegal immigrants.

As I have said I rather he is innocent but I will not just say he is innocent simply because he is frum or guilty simply because he is frum. One must look at the facts.

White collar crimes hurt many people, sometimes thousands so the punishment have to be considered how many people where affected and restitution must also be part of the sentence

63

 Oct 19, 2009 at 10:21 AM anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

To most of the commenters: shame on you! As Jews, you have an obligation to do all you can and pray for your fellow Jew. Pidyon Shvuyim is an obligation in Jewish law. What kind of "G-D fearing" Jews are you who feel nothing for their brother/sister. This is one of the most important mitzvahs there is. The facts speak for themselves; there is definitely an anti-semitic bent here and if you don't see it or feel for your fellow, then the day will come when you might be in the same position. If you don't realize the era we are in and that we must all do tshuva, well - Good Luck!




'

Pidyon shvuyim derives from the priates taking innocent Jews captives or Jews wo not due ot their fault have been incarcerated. Pidyon shvuyim does not apply and it is preversion of the original mitzvah. He was indicted in a Federal Court and not captured by pirates. The largest photo store in New York is owned by frum Yidden who give a lot of tzedaka and are listed in Consumer Report as best store to buy photo equipment. This is not Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia. If you follow the laws nobody will harm you or indict you.

64

 Oct 19, 2009 at 10:51 AM Anonymous Says:

Very strange how so many frume yidden have such a negative view of a fellow Jew (talk about sinas chinam, wow)! Firstly, the Rubashkin family is well-known throughout all of the Jewish communities of being the most charitable, fine people. Secondly, practically everyone here on this blog has already convicted him before he has been tried. Thirdly, do you people realize how many corporations and businesses were caught with all the illegals, etc. and nothing was ever made of it. This family kept that whole town employed and now it is a ghost town! From all that's been written, apparently, he was made as a scapegoat; there has been evidence of plain old anti-semitism in certain instances and, of course, the notorious Peta group is probably the ones most responsible for this. They are against shchita, first and foremost, and they have an agenda. But, whatever, do not convict someone first. And as Jews, we have an obligation to, at least, pray for another Jew who has done so much chesed for his people. Where is the ahavat Yisrael? By the way, I don't know this family at all; just speaking as a fellow Yid.

65

 Oct 19, 2009 at 11:00 AM OMG Says:

Reply to #39  
Mendel Beilis Says:

Remember the story of Mendel Beilis? Just to refresh your memory, Mendel Beilis was a simple factory owner who was accused of a very ugly crime. The rabbonim at the time could have washed their hands of the affair and said "we don't who is lying, for all we know he may have done it, etc." but did they? No. From across the board the most distinguished Rabbonim came to his aid and defense.

The fact is that this case is without a doubt grossly blown out of proportion. In fact, the claims that sensationalized the case (abuse, torture, bombs, drugs, weapons) have all disappeared; instead, now this entire case is based on something that only came up at the end, and wasn't even part of the "scandal". With open eyes you can see that a man is being railroaded.

You either don’t know the facts of the Mendel Beilis case or you purposely decided to pull the wool over your eyes, first allow me to establish that Mendel Beilis was not even religious, and the reason why the Jewish leaders, Rabbis, Jewish and none Jewish scholars, Academia, even the Orthodox Christian philosopher Alexander Glagolev, testified on behalf of Beillis, the reason why all these organizations and individuals were involved because Beillis was charged with killing a young man for rituals purposes and the prosecution paraded a lineup of Anti-Semites to validate the accusations that Jews need to use ritual murder in their practices, so at that time every Jew religious or not was on trial, inasmuch, in this trial one man is on trail not for ritual murder just for plan stealing from the bank, so please don’t try to tell us, that all Jews are in jeopardy because this guy decided to steal from bank. It is not a Jewish problem it is an individual problem who happens to be Jewish.

66

 Oct 19, 2009 at 11:40 AM I mean, seriously? Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

To most of the commenters: shame on you! As Jews, you have an obligation to do all you can and pray for your fellow Jew. Pidyon Shvuyim is an obligation in Jewish law. What kind of "G-D fearing" Jews are you who feel nothing for their brother/sister. This is one of the most important mitzvahs there is. The facts speak for themselves; there is definitely an anti-semitic bent here and if you don't see it or feel for your fellow, then the day will come when you might be in the same position. If you don't realize the era we are in and that we must all do tshuva, well - Good Luck!




'

to Commenter #8 (and all you other armchair lawyers who know nothing about this but what you read in the papers), maybe you should spend less time on the internet and more time learning.

For instance, what Pidyon Shvuyim refers to. If you believe it is about someone who should be in jail being in jail, the Tombs and Rikers Island have plenty of Jews you can bail out or try to get paroled if you have more money than saychal and too much time on your hands.

Rubashkin is either innocent or guilty. If he is innocent, I pray he gets released beKorov. If he is guilty, I will lose no sleep if he spends years in jail.

Unless you know more than the rest of us, or believe Jews should not EVER be prosecuted by the law no matter what they do, keep your uneducatede and uninformed opinions to yourself, instead of speaking for all of "Klal Yisroel", instead of embarrassing the rest of us by telling the world that we believe no Jew should ever go to jail no matter whether he's guilty or not.

And NO, what you heard in shul during layning doesn't count as accurate information about this case.

67

 Oct 19, 2009 at 11:56 AM I mean, seriously? Says:

Reply to #47  
Anonymous Says:

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, LET'S NOT FORGET THE FACTS. THEY DO NOT FIT, AND THEREFORE, YOU MUST ACQUIT!

FELLOW JEWS, THIS IS YOUR WAKE UP CALL, All orthodox jews should remember, that we are on trial now! Rubashkin is only the front cover.

"And remember, not to condemn your fellow Jew,
As, you never know what's waiting next for you"

Good Night Ladies and Gentlemen, God b"h will vindicate Mr. Rubashkin and us all, and God Bless the United States of America with the brains to stop this war!

Are you kidding me?

Please ask your doctor to adjust your medication.

Neither I nor the rest of the Jewish world is on trial here. None of us are accused of the charges Rubashkin is accused of. If you would like to join the suit as an accomplice, fine, speak for yourself.

But you have the utmost in chutzpah to make yourself out to be a prophet who can speak for Hashem. What Hashem will or won't do, vindicate or not vindicate is not for you to say, and you should pray for forgiveness for speaking out with shtuss and claiming it came from Hashem.

68

 Oct 19, 2009 at 11:51 AM I mean, seriously? Says:

Reply to #53  
stam a yid Says:

to all you 52 people before me who had what to say about sholom rubashkin (for the good or CV otherwise) i say to you, that if you ever knocked on his door for help (even if you showed him your love or hate posting) he would put his hand into his pocket and give you the help you asked for!!!

i ask you:

1) when was the last time you helped a fellow yid?

2) when was the last time you made a cheshbin Hanefesh?

3) are all your children yiray shomayim?

4) can you look yourself in the mirror and say that you are true both inside and out?

5) ask yourself, did my posting on VIN bring us 1 step closer to the geula? (or u don’t believe in the whole moshiach concept altogether)

6) is it because you can sit at home or office (who knows what sites u visit) and say things that you wouldn’t want your spouse- children -chaverim etc to know you said???


Hey, Stam-a-Yid, you're absolutely right!

Find out if you can get Rubashkin out of the defendant's seat, and put me there instead! Because as you point out, this is about me and my family, and the things I am ashamed to tell my wife and children and friends (especially amusing, since I have no wiffe and children).

But since you are so quick to judge me, and assume that I have done wrong without ever meeting me or knowing anything about me, maybe while we're switching parties, you should take over for the Judge as well, since if I never gave tzdaka, Rubashkin should go free, and if I can't look in the mirror, Rubashkin should go free. If I am going to inappropriate internet sites, Rubashkin should go free!

Let me ask you, why are they questioning Rubashkin? Shouldn't they be questioning me?

I have a novel idea: let Rubashkin be judged on what he is accused of, and you stop calling the kettle black. The fact that you feel entitled to judge ALL the people who commented before you shows exactly your delusions of adequacy.

And finally, what difference does what I did or what Rubashkin did outside of the charges make? If he's innocent, then he's innocent. If he made his money dishonestly, I don't really care whether he gave a lot of it to tzdaka, it wasn't his to give.

69

 Oct 19, 2009 at 11:28 AM OMG Says:

Reply to #60  
Anonymous Says:

You're not stam a yid, you are a yid with an opinion. As much as I respect what you are saying, it does not treat the issue at hand.
Shlomo Rubashkin may be a big baal tsedakka, with a big heart for his fellow jews. No doubt his zechusim will stand by him, both in this world and in the world to come.
But if he did not respect that dinah demalchusah dinah, and he was caught by the malchus he deceived, he has to bear the consequences.
It doesn't mean that those who don't get caught are not guilty.
Sooner or later we shall all have to be accountable for our actions.

This is not even a dinah demalchusah dinah issue, "Thou Shalt not Steal" is in the Torah, it is beyond any logic why people would support a thief, even if he gives lots of money to needy people, so what? He is a thief, and the money he gave out is not even his money, it is ours, the customers and the purveyor of his business and banks who parted with their hard earned money.

70

 Oct 19, 2009 at 01:56 PM facts!! Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

We have an oblkigation to support upstanding Jews who do things l'shaim shomayim.

There is no obligation to support theives who steal and then cry anti-semitism when thay get caught.

no one says that he stole. everyone agrees that he paid back every cent he borrowed from the bank.
the accusation is just that he lied about how much he was allowed to borrow

71

 Oct 19, 2009 at 02:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #54  
formally Says:

context makes a big difference

1, it was a response to someone who said if you do not support a yid you are not part of the club. However, my comment was saying that should not be the case that we could support every single yid even those that are doing bad things
2. Are far as Michail. give him credit, however, that does not absolve him from the stuff he did. Which some want to use to say if he gave charity must be innocent.

Do not take my words out of context

Who are you kidding?Where have you written once give rubashkin some credit ,he did some moch good.

72

 Oct 19, 2009 at 02:32 PM anonymous Says:

No Jew should be in court but the issue here is Mr. Rubashkin made it a cause celebre and a Jewish issue. The court is not antisemitic but we do live in a galus and under such circumstances it behooves every Yid to behave in such a way tha he does not clash with the American Civil Code/Penal Code.

73

 Oct 19, 2009 at 02:22 PM anonymous Says:

Reply to #24  
WB Says:

Kol yisroel arievim zah luzah! Don't u know a plain mishnah?

do you know a plain gemorah dina d'malchisu dina . Areivim zeh lozeh does this apply to someone who broke the law unless he is oriented

74

 Oct 19, 2009 at 02:04 PM Dave Says:

Reply to #70  
facts!! Says:

no one says that he stole. everyone agrees that he paid back every cent he borrowed from the bank.
the accusation is just that he lied about how much he was allowed to borrow

Isn't he also charged with failing to pay the farmers for some of the cattle slaughtered? How would that not be theft?

75

 Oct 19, 2009 at 02:46 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #70  
facts!! Says:

no one says that he stole. everyone agrees that he paid back every cent he borrowed from the bank.
the accusation is just that he lied about how much he was allowed to borrow

You are an outright phony, the company declared bankruptcy and let vendor and the banks and all other creditors hanging. The fact is that when the trustee went to all so called customers, they found out that approx. $35 million in invoices were bogus, that is when the FBI started to look at the books, additionally he did not pay for his food suppliers and not paying for your cattle he run afoul with the failing to pay livestock providers on time law, another federal crime and the beat goes on.

76

 Oct 19, 2009 at 04:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #75  
OMG Says:

You are an outright phony, the company declared bankruptcy and let vendor and the banks and all other creditors hanging. The fact is that when the trustee went to all so called customers, they found out that approx. $35 million in invoices were bogus, that is when the FBI started to look at the books, additionally he did not pay for his food suppliers and not paying for your cattle he run afoul with the failing to pay livestock providers on time law, another federal crime and the beat goes on.

Where did you get your information from,the sams newspapers who made up a story about a plea bargain,on which you commented so much on?

77

 Oct 19, 2009 at 05:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Other than Rabbi Hecht, who seems to feel he knows the outcome, no one can make a cheshob on Rubashkin. The fact is he is on trial for something, and Hashem, who runs teh world, made it so. He may be very charitable, but if the money came as teh result of any of the things he is charged with, then what can one say?

78

 Oct 19, 2009 at 08:14 PM formally Says:

Reply to #71  
Anonymous Says:

Who are you kidding?Where have you written once give rubashkin some credit ,he did some moch good.

that was not the discussion,

if it was stolen from fraud yes he gets no credit according the halacha mitzva habu avari is no mitzva at all. If I steal or get money illegally am I to be revered as a good person

If he is found innocent or not guilty then he will get all the credit he deserves

79

 Oct 19, 2009 at 07:53 PM A. Nuran Says:

Reply to #57  
joe Says:

your dead wrong the only people who don't have the right to say that he is innocent, our the judge and jury until the case is over, the rest of us can say and think what we want being that we live in a sort of democracy, so stop bashing people for sticking up for him ,I happen to know this case up close and have already sheared my opinon earlier, but I think Mr A. Nuran there are plenty of country's that u can move to if u don't like people calling other people innocent.

You have an absolute right to say that you think he's innocent. I'd defend your right to do that to the death. Literally. As in my blood on the floor.

I also have an absolute right to say that your opinions are foolish. And you have an obligation to defend my right to say that.

That does not mean I have to agree with your opinions on the case. And it doesn't prevent me from saying that "One Law for the Jews, one Law for the Gentiles" and "If he's a Jew he must be innocent" are disgusting examples or racism which appeal to the worst in us. Which they are.

81

 Oct 19, 2009 at 07:46 PM anonymous Says:

Reply to #65  
OMG Says:

You either don’t know the facts of the Mendel Beilis case or you purposely decided to pull the wool over your eyes, first allow me to establish that Mendel Beilis was not even religious, and the reason why the Jewish leaders, Rabbis, Jewish and none Jewish scholars, Academia, even the Orthodox Christian philosopher Alexander Glagolev, testified on behalf of Beillis, the reason why all these organizations and individuals were involved because Beillis was charged with killing a young man for rituals purposes and the prosecution paraded a lineup of Anti-Semites to validate the accusations that Jews need to use ritual murder in their practices, so at that time every Jew religious or not was on trial, inasmuch, in this trial one man is on trail not for ritual murder just for plan stealing from the bank, so please don’t try to tell us, that all Jews are in jeopardy because this guy decided to steal from bank. It is not a Jewish problem it is an individual problem who happens to be Jewish.

Mendel Beilis was accused of blood libel or killing a christian child for pessach an old bogus claim by antisemites. He defense lawyer was a Czech Christian Masaryk later the Premier of Czechoslovakia. You are correct the comparison with Beilis is totally out of place

82

 Oct 19, 2009 at 11:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #78  
formally Says:

that was not the discussion,

if it was stolen from fraud yes he gets no credit according the halacha mitzva habu avari is no mitzva at all. If I steal or get money illegally am I to be revered as a good person

If he is found innocent or not guilty then he will get all the credit he deserves

It was the discussion,because you show who support and who you don't,who you praise and who you don;t.P.S,i like the fact you all of a sudden are qouting halacha(espically since you were telling posters that not evreyone veiws the news through the eyes of halacha,and other such comments),but to answer your "point",did the money he gave was all stolen?did he give tzedakah (lots of it)before certain deals?

83

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