New York – The enormous Chillul Hashem reported in Sunday’s New York Post is almost without precedent in thousands of years of Jewish history.
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There is a fascinating Ralbag regarding the sin of Gaychazi (Malacham II 5:25) that is most appropriate here.
Let us recall that Elisha the prophet cured Naaman, the general of Aram of his leprosy. Naaman wanted to reward Elisha. Elisha refused to take anything. Gaychazi waited until Elisha was out of sight and ran quickly to Naaman. He tactfully implied that Elisha required a talent of silver and two suits of clothing. Naaman gave him two talents of silver.
Later, Elisha asked Gaychazi, “Where are you coming from?” Gaychazi answered, “Your servant went neither here nor there.” The Ralbag remarks that if Gaychazi would have admitted to the theft he would have incurred a lesser punishment. Elisha would have told him to return the items in a manner that would demonstrate to Naaman that Elisha had not asked for anything. Instead, Gaychazi added to his sin by not admitting his error.
It is clear from this Ralbag that when a person has erred, even if he errs grievously – his punishment is lessened if he admits guilt. Not so with Gaychazi – he confounded his error, by not admitting. This proved to be the cause of his complete downfall. Gaychazi was stricken with leprosy forever onward.
Rabbi Yair Hoffman is a mechanech, the author of several halachah seforim, the former morah d’asra of the Young Israel of Patchogue, a well respected Torah figure with close contacts with many Poskim. He may be reached at [email protected]
I’m not suprised for one reason, because if Ehrntrau is his counterpart in London, then this should be self understood.
And I have no idea why all conversions are valid, this group is rotten (with some exeptions, of course).
Although I agree with this editorial that telling the truth is better than lying. (massive chiddushim there) We don’t pasken Halacha from Nach, only what our Gedolim say. For us to assume that a Yid did something and that we do not know the whole story is totally innapropriate and also against that very same Halacha that this editorial is supposedly upholding. DAAS TORAH was, is, and will always be the final word on all aspects of the lives of anyone who wants to be called a Torah Jew and no editorial can change that by misconstruing a Ralbag for their own political interpretations.
The sin of Gaychazi has to do with profiteering, The pattern of corrupt behavior reported in the NYPost is much more serious, as it involves Chilul Hashem and abuse of office. While the woman attempted to put a stop to the behavior by reporting it to a few Rabbis, she will end up by derailing her own conversion, possibly forever. While she’s not entirely innocent, she was misled by a high-ranking member of the clergy.
What scandal is this editorial referring too?
sounds like the madoff of rabbi’s
do as i say not as i do
The EJF passes all of the halachik, etc criterea but it doesn’t pass the “smell” test.
Everyone is getting bak’shish big time.
Anonymous #1 , could you please clarify what you mean in your first sentence? Tropper’s sin, or his non-admitting of it? If you mean the second, it’s not okay that someone could infer it’s the first.
Rav Stern, from Rav Wosners beth din in bnei brak, states the opinion in his sefer ‘Gerus Kehilchoso’ (Page 56 paragraph 5) that any bais din that accepts even one ger who is not mekabal torah & mitzvos completely is a posul bais din for all gerus, and all their gerus is botol.
He also states any Dayan who takes payment for gerus is posul for gerus.
Also in sefer Teshuvos V’hanhogos vol 1 610 & 611 +612.
“almost without precedent in thousands of years of Jewish history”
Rabbi Hoffman,
We had a similar scandal 5 years ago in the same area of NY!
To think, the same Rabbi Tropper who was invalidating conversions for women not covering their hair.
a. its interesting that in 1973 he put out a kuntres on hilchos yichud…
b. we all chose to ignore his indiscretions that led him to leaving his previous wife for his current one (and apparent co-conspirator) .
c. intrestingly, this came around the same time that “gdolim” asered blogs. if not for blogs his resignation would not have registeredf a bleep, and it would have been shoved under the rug, with her being villified – she was smart to record it, because you can hear her being sincere and he “forcing” her to do as he says with the blackmail of gairus
Well now another reason to blame the internet?
Or could this have happened without the internet?
BTW there are phone calls, but how many of us have spoken that way on the phone here & there we were just lucky no one taped us.
This dirty industry is the oldest trade in the world, & cash only, the Gemorah speaks about a Talmid of Rebbi Akiva, who was able to hold back at last minute,and how he was able to hold back, imagine his conversations up until then would have been taped? the gemorah explains & praises how he held back, same goes for other Tanoim how they held back.
Did this individual actually do anything besides speak? Is there proof of such? I am green on this storry don’t go mad at me.
I feel bad for this individual who transgressed the eleventh commandment Thou shalt not get caught.
we should all take atshuva lesson here IMHO.
“almost without precedent in thousands of years of Jewish history”
i beg to differ with you,yes it is a big chilul hashem,but how could you compare this to the tremendous chilul hashem,when for the last 8 years two brothers so called leaders of the biggest chasidic sect encompassing hundreds of thousands jews,have been fighting in secular courts over who should be rebbe,and who should control what real estate,and where the N.Y state troopers are busy day and night making arrests when physical violence breaks out.
you see this tropper is a single individual evidently a low life with a big libido who could not control himself,but here we are talking about so called leaders of kllal yisroel who act like thugs and low life criminals,now that is unprecedented chilul hashem
This sham of a rabbi has caused severe damage in the Jewish world. He is probably on par with Fink from the Monsey. There has to be a system where no one person is in charge.
Now the whole thing with Guma Aguiar will likely come back again….
Do we know this story is true before condemning Rabbi Leib Tropper? The fact that the NY Post wrote a story about it is insufficient evidence.
I once heard an explanation of the concept קנאים פוגעים בו in the name of the Kotzker Rebbe. Why is this command given to קנאים as opposed to any other group of Jews? The Kozker explains that the קנאים personalities are the types that are usually found in the vicinity of where immoral behavior can be found. Therefore the responsibility of being פוגעים בו are given to them.
I’ve never seen this in print so I can’t verify it. It seems kind of strong even for the Kotzker. But it does explain a personality that worries about a women in slacks and then goes out and finds a mistress. Or the Tznius Patrols who spend their lives looking high and low for פריצות offenders. And high and low some more.
My heart goes out to the scumbag’s family.
‘Ain apertropes l’aroyos’, period.
Biggest Chillul Hashem, was not the actions of the rabbie who did the conversions, but the actions of the beais dein and the community for condemning the woman more than they are the rebbiie.
for a yid it makes sense, protect the rebbie, like the child molesters, and condemn the woman and the child who was molested. But for outsider, this is upside down and they do not understand the logic of such bazzar behavior
12/20/2009
EJF announced that Rabbi Chaim Blum, EJF’s liaison to the network of Botei Din in the Torah community, has agreed to serve as interim director of EJF.
Statement by the Eternal Jewish Family
December 20, 2009
EJF announced that Rabbi Chaim Blum, EJF’s liaison to the network of Botei Din in the Torah community, has agreed to serve as interim director of EJF.
The organization operates offices in the US, Europe and Israel with international headquarters in Monsey NY. In accepting the position, Rabbi Blum said: “The recent announcement by Rav Tropper that he is resigning his post at EJF is accepted with sadness and regret. The announcement by some of the world’s leading Torah authorities that they will take an increased role in the Eternal Jewish Family is testimony of the organization’s strength and commitment to its core mission. The many people who benefit from EJF’s activities should know that the organization remains fully committed to its important mission, one which has helped thousands of people in their pursuit of a Jewish life.”
EJF International is headed by distinguished halachic authorities around the world, including Rav Reuven Feinstein, Chairman of the Halachic Committee (US), Dayan Chanoch Ehrentreu (Europe) and Rav Shmuel Eliezer Stern (Av Bais Din of Rabbi Wosner’s Bais Din – Israel).
Statement by Rav Reuven Feinstein, President of Halachic Committee on EJF
December 20, 2009
I hope that Rav Leib Tropper’s decision to resign his position at EJF will serve him and his family well. At the same time, I have also agreed to take on a more active role in overseeing all of the halachic nuances of EJF in assuring that all universally accepted conversions are in compliance with the highest standards of halacha. I wish to reassure the community that EJF will continue to be guided by the highest halachic standards under the leadership of the Gedolei Yisroel. It should be noted that EJF has never been, and will never be, involved in the actual geyrus (conversion) of candidates. That function is left solely to the discretion of Botei Din. Our sole mission is to support those botei din in their work. The resignation of Rabbi Tropper in no way casts any cloud over the validity of any conversion performed by a Bais Din affiliated with or supported by EJF. Our role, as per the halachic rulings of Gedolei Haposkim, is to be mekarev the Jewish spouse in an intermarriage while referring the non-Jewish spouse to an independent Bais Din that will offer the geyrus candidate a universally accepted conversion in a case where both agree to a family life of Torah and mitzvos.
Is there anything a Rabbi can do that won’t be covered up? Anything?
Please report on the whole story without holding back on and details. The only reason why Trooper was able to go this far was because all his previous indiscretions were covered up.
Those in the know are not surprised that he and his wife are capable of this.
if the tapes are authentic – i find his lack of menchlichkeit in the way he talks to her appalling as well. these scandals could be avoided if we didn’t put unmenshlich people in positions of authority. it is usualy a siman muvhak for trouble. same with fink.
biggest chillul Hashem? come on. Nevertheless, it saddens me to my core.
If she converts will he marry her?
He is so disgraced even worse than the meat man of Monsey. The Meat man had Taavas Money this guy if true has more than on urge, but don’t we all have these urges, just no guts & power to fulfil them.Aanyone not emerssed in Torah can fall & fall big. If this is proven this will be a big Humpty Dumpty Rabbi.
Where can he go from here where? What is he qualified to do for a living? Clean toilets?
This Human guilty or not has been destroyed, look how a minute could change a life. Rochov Hazona did exactly the opposite she changed to the good in a minute & married Yehoishuan Bin Nun & became the biggest Rebitzen of all times in Klal yisroel, nobody sinned in the days of Yehoishua Bin nun which was a unique generation.
I feel for this man let us hope he is given guidence on tshuva, his best bet maybe making a public speach like Patterson did, & doing tshuva from now on.
I would hate to see the tabloids print Shamed Rabbi Commits…
Like any other estranged brother we must guide & accept him back in the foold. Vehu rachum Yechaper avon Veloi Yashchis.
who are we to judge? what a repulsive, revolting, horrible situation. let’s all do teshuva and turn to Torah for answers.
Who is/was Fink?
I read the article here and was confused, then read the post and now more confused I failed to see the chilul Hashem as anything major, she herself at the end of the editorial said this Rabbi is the problem NOT Rabbis. It hard to know what her reasons were for continuing, why she felt trapped, what he said to seduce her into this position, or who even instigated it.
She is still interested in conversion, that means despite this incident she doesn’t feel this Rabbi or these activities were anything at all what Judaism is about. She sent the tapes to Rabbis she felt could deal with the situation appropriately and discreetly and did exactly what should have been done. In her own words she didn’t release them to the post and someone else did.
That said this is a chiliul hashem for what this Rabbi did, and the post article pretty much played it as a personal issue of someone in power abusing his power not that because he was a Jew he did these things.
In 1975 I was a bochur at Ohr Someyach in Yerushaylyim. Leib Tropper was the one Rebbe that I could connect to on a personal level. He was an important role model to me, a 17 year old baal tshuvah. I am not in any way trying to defend or condem him. My personal feelings are nothing compared to others who are suffering in this case, but I am truly heartsick over this. Al taamin b’atzmicha, you know ? Guilty or not, it’s a lesson for all of us.
In accepting the position, Rabbi Blum said: “The recent announcement by Rav Tropper that he is resigning his post at EJF is accepted with sadness and regret.”
What is the matter with these rabbis? With sadness and regret? You would rather he stick around? You rabbis are all cut of the same cloth Tropper was cut from! Reb Moshe Feinstein ZT”L has suffered so much on account of his grandson, and now look what his son is doing to the legacy. I don’t care how many millions the rosh yeshiva made from EJF, his actions cannot be justified and mark my words, those who are involved in this mess and chilul hashem will come crashing down one day too. It has to be so, for it is the midda of hashem to pay back and punish midda kinegged midda.
EJF set itself up as the arbitrator of Halacha. Acting in a unilateral way. Recently a person who went through a Giyur -after he discovered his mother had converted non halachicly- thirty years ago, an then went to Yeshiva, was told by EJF that “the Giyur may not be acceptable”. EJF did not contact the Rabbonim who sat on the Bies Din, who are reputable. They just decided who is good and who is not. Such irresponsible action are very troubling. In the light of the revelations of the last week the questions are even stronger.
Is it possible that those tapes were doctored?
To me sounds like words were implanted
Many stuff on that tape makes no sense
Maybe the fact that he is at war with guma agier help understand the situation
I simply find it impossible to believe this is true, Often when “everyone knows” it turns out that there was no evidence to begin with just rumors. How dare we convinct someone and spread Lashon Hara and destroy someone -certainly not before there is a trial. It is open season on Yidden now and there is no reason to “HANG’ someone
before his guilt it clear. It is so easy for someone with an agenda to besmirch and destory someone and say thinkgs about them – that in the end can not be verified.
Did anyone read Just 1 Jew from Feldheim? The author was apparently inspired to return to Judaism by a talk given by this individual. He must have been sincere at one point.
The question is if other converts did not have similar issues with this organization or if this was an isolated case
We have to stop blaming the rabbonim……
Rav Michael Ben Yaakov Z’L used to say in his world famous mussar shmuzim
“If you wanna make a change you have to start with the man in the mirror”…….
Follow the money. His dayanus is discredited. But we have to worry about all the dayanim who took money from him, supposedly tzedakkah! Then they all have stood up as speakers at his EJF conventions. I am sure they did not promise anything but certain things dimmed their eyes. Why does Reuven Feinstein say he will now pay more attention to nuances when he headed their committee all along.
As for tshuvah, we all hope for it but no one gives back a hechsher to someone deliberately selling treyfah chickens. If Tropper is sincere he will strive to remove himself from temptation by giving up his kiruv organizations, Yeshivah Kol Yaakov and Horizons. I don’t understand why no one is demanding that. If he stays in that position, those that claim he did tshuvah are mocking the hilchos tshuvah. Right now he is still blaming the woman. I suppose he depended on her psak that his behavior was allowed! As for tshuvah, HKB’H decides when it is sincere, but we can often tell when it not sincere.
The latest EJF public announcement should, once again, bother us all. It hits all the wrong chords. No contrition, no reflection, no emes. The uncomfortable facts are ignored. This is a spinned press release, not worthy to be issued by a religious organization. The victims, and the public, need to be spoken to. A proper announcement also need not humiliate Rabbi Tropper. He has done much good in his life. He needs a tikkun, and “its never too late” is a Jewish idea.
HE’S A NORMAL HUMAN BEING. HE SUCCUMMBED TO TEMPTATION. SOME PEOPLE STEAL, SOME DO OTHER BAD THINGS. GOSSIP IS NOT THE TORAH WAY. MER GAYIN VAYTER.
So what took VIN until today? And even then you tell us nothing. Shame on VIN. We have to rely on the NY Post for Jewish information? I’m going to FailedMessiah. At least there you get all the stories, dirt or not.
How ironic that two prominent “Rabbi’s” who led the fight against Rabbi Nosson Slifkin have been disgraced.
The gemara says clearly that if you see a talmid chochom sin at night (i.e. immorality) do not think badly about him the next day, as he certainly did teshuva.
If he is guilty, he is surely remorseful, perhaps not based on ahava and yiras Hashem, but like a child who was caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Dayenu, the Gemara says.
It is good that he has been exposed and defrocked, innocent or guilty. There is no reason to villianize him any longer or destroy his future, non-public life. Our community, including some of our leaders, have not adequately internalized this Torah teaching. We have hounded, villianized and destroyed such people long after they have been neutralized. This too is forbidden.
Maybe the gedolim should now review what he did to R’ Slivkin?
This is all loshon horah against a big tzadik and talmid chacham. And while some of you feminists may find it upsetting, even if these allegations were true, he did nothing wrong under halacha because this woman wasn’t married.
Several years ago a Rabbi was accused of impropor behavior by a young women on an airplane. After several years it emerged that the woman’s Father lost his case in a Beis Din over which the accused Rabbi presided. Obviously the woman’s accussation was intended to get back at the Rabbi. What happened to the belief that someone is innocent until provedn guilty
#60 : are you sick? this massive chillul hashem and blatant misuse of power and all you can come up with is “this woman wasn’t married”. you ever heard of naval b’rshus hatorah? those who love hashem are supposed to hate evil.
From the transcripts of the tapes: “I’m going to go with you tonight, I will go with you tonight darling, and im yirtzeh hashem, [?] just called me, he hung up on me, I’m going to call him back.”
As you can see, he is for sure very frum. He never forgets to say “im yirtzeh Hashem” in every circumstance.
Rav Elya held he was a Rasha Merusha many years ago. He told everyone he could to have nothing to do with him We should have listened to our Gedolim. We didn’t.
When will we learn, just a few articles later in the day we see the charges against Mr. Zilber were dropped. We all assumed his guilt because of the “witnesses”. And when the truth came out, it turned out to be his disgruntled ex-wife. We must remember that it is assur to believe lashon harah, no matter where you read/ hear it.
Everyone heard it from Rav Elya – everyone. Ask any Brooklyn posaik, my friend.