New York – Often people are invited to a wedding. They sit, they eat, and sometimes, they do not bring wedding gifts. Of course it is a social no-no not to bring a gift, but is it a halachic obligation?
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Today’s Daf (bava Basra 145a) seems to indicate that it is. The braisah states that 5 things were said in regard to Shoshvinin. One of them is reciprocity. If a person gave you a gift for your wedding, you must likewise reciprocate – or you must return the original gift.
The Shulchan Aruch in Even hoEzer (Siman 60) seems to indicate that the laws of Shoshvinim are not really obnserved today. However, many of the Achronim have commented that these laws are not observed to the extent that the gifts legally have to be returned. However, in regard to the obligation of giving it, this is still the custom (See Drishas Ari, e.g.)
Often the parents depend upon the wedding gifts for their children, and have spent the wedding money with this in mind – that they predict a certain return on the catering cost so that they do not have to provide their children with whatever marriage start up money they had planned to give initially.
Under daas torah, there is NEVER a chiyuv to give a gift although as the article properly notes, it has become the minhag in certain kehillas to offer gifts in certain circumstances. However, the chazal don’t dictate the size of the gift and the contemporary minhag of expecting gifts for the chasan/kalah at a large scale is not only contrary to common sense but also can be shown to be contrary to halacha.
If I am invited to a simcha, I believe it is to make the baalei simcha happy with my presence. I usually give a gift to the chosson and kallah, but, not because I feel that it is required. When I invite people to participate in my simchos, it is because I want to share my simcha with them and not because I expect them to bring gifts.
What #4 said. If the baalei simcha chose an expensive hall, that isn’t my fault. I can’t pay my portion each time.
Showing up is my gift to the young couple.
If the parents are depending on the wedding gifts why not invite less people and give the money they saving to the young couple??? My parents did not make a tnoyim for me, instead they gave me the money to use and enjoy and spend it however I wished as a young couple!!
what is the halacha when one receives a book or other item of some value from a yeshiva , etc, does one have to send a donation as the item received was unsolicited ? IS THIS SIMILAR to the topic?
In the New York ultra-Orthodox world, it would be impossible to bring a present EVERY time you attend a wedding because the amount of weddings is (bli ayin hara) staggering. Nobody ever forsaw a time in Jewish history that virtually every family would have 8-12 children that survive to adulthood and in turn have 8-12 children, and each one marries at around 18-21 years of age, starting the process over every 18 years. The numbers grow exponentially by the third & fourth generation until you have a situation like that lady in Monsey who passed away leaving 2500 descendants. Even SHE couldn’t afford to give each great-great-einikel a wedding gift and who knows if she even knew each one’s name.
In a small, out-of-town shteibel community that has maybe 2-3 weddings a year at most, and the families are closer to each other, then you should DEFINITELY bring a gift.
Weddings have become too elaborate and extravagant and many people cannot afford to give gifts commensurate to the affair. Therefore I do not believe that a person is required to give a gift in lieu of the cost for his place at a wedding. I cannot afford to give every couple, whose wedding I go to, a big check, but, if I get them a nice piece of crystal from a discount store, they might not appreciate it.
I have always given wedding gifts generously. I have not become poorer because of it. I expect people to give according to their means. Everyone has to know their budget. If you are a close family member you are expected to attend. If you cannot afford to give a gift, then don’t give one.
If I choose not to give a gift, then I will attend the chupa only, or the simchas choson vkallah, and then I am not obligated to give anything.
If I choose to attend, and it is not a close relative, I give as generous a gift as I can afford, and in most cases, where the couple is a kollel couple, in my mind this is the same as tzedaka.
Most weddings are not fancy today, and parents can barely scrape the costs together. They would not give the couple this money, because the money is used to get married with, at a minimum. Most couples do not get much in the way of gifts today, especially the poorer couples get the least.
Wealthy people are usually generous to each other, and continue to do so if they are able to . Some have sadly lost money, and can no longer afford to be so generous. Weddings are for sharing, and I would be very unhappy to have a guest stay home just because they can’t give a gift.
One rule I have – I get a gift I return a gift.. I cant begin to to tell you all how many people did not give gifts at a recent simcha we made. I didnt make it expecting gifts but it certainly opened my eyes. So for all of you who came to our simcha and didnt give you now know why you arent getting one in return
I think the fact that it’s seems to be expected takes so much away from the whole thing.I have been to so many weddings where there is actually someone designated to collect the checks!
A gift should be a kind gesture….nothing more.