New York – VIN has just learned that Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky S’hlita will be speaking on the Project Y.E.S. teleconference call [reported here] this evening titled “Purim Parenting: Keeping Our Children Safe and Sober.”
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It is our understanding that the Rosh Yeshiva was asked by Rabbi Horowitz to speak directly to the question people have about “Ad Deloi Yoda” as it relates to drinking — Is it a mitzvah to get drunk on Purim?”
VIN News Will have a replay of the Teleconference, and details later
Hopefully, the rav, will speak clearly and avoid any ambiguity that it is not a mitzvah to drink excessively on Purim and indeed, anyone who does so and puts himself and others at risk is a mamash rotzeach. If Rav Kaminetsky fails to take this opportunity to save yiddeshe lives and instead goes into some arcane story about the neis of purim, he will have lost any claim the moral high ground on this critical issue of pikuach nefesh.
How can there even be a question whether it is a mitzvah to get drunk on any day??? Intoxication is the same as slitting your wrists, taking drugs, smoking or any other known self-destructive behavior. Why is there even a need to discuss this as if there was some question.
Um…Isn’t the Rabbi speaking to parents of CHILDREN about CHILDREN drinking on Purim? Meaning people who are under the legal age in the US to drink? I am confused. It is ILLEGAL to serve a minor or allow him to drink at all, much less whether they can drink to excess…
hopefully this will silence all the shoitim who blogged the last few days about what a great mitzvah it is to get stinking drunk on purim.what a busha but as they say ,denial ain’t just a river in egypt.
If the Tatta and the Rebbe drank excessively on Purim when they were younger, there is nothing that any Rosh Yeshiva can do or say that can undo that role modeling and tolerance. We are now one or two generations into Purim-American-Yeshivish style. The only thing that has changed is that the station wagons being driven by the bochurim have been replaced by minivans and SUV’s.
There is also a classic use of “mitoych”. Mitoych that it is mutter to drink excessively on Purim, it is also mutter to smoke. After all, “Reb Moishe didn’t asser smoking”.
All of this probably sounds familiar to many.
Hashem ya’azor.
Which part of this new-found danger, didn’t the Chazal understand when they said “Chayov Odom Lvsumei”.
Which part of the new-found danger of Metzutza B’Peh, didn’t the Chazal know.
Which, of today’s astronomy didn’t the Chazal know when they said that the sun and the moon revolve around the earth, and that at night, the moon shines on us with its own fiery light while the sun is hiding above the non-transparent sky.
Why can’t we just follow Chazal ?
It is usually not the PARENTS allowing the children to drink or even teaching the children “ad delo yodah” it is the Rebbeim in Yeshiva and it is way more important that the Yeshivas and Rebbeim need to be addressed!!!!! It is THEY who need to emphasis that their talmidim should not be drinking and should not be getting drunk. It is THEY who need to teach that the only drinking need be at the seudah and that is only one or two glasses of wine if the Talmid is of legal age to drink.
The minhag yisrael MeAz uMikedem with very very few exceptions is to get drunk on Purim. This is how almost all observant Jews did it, and there is no reason why it should change. Do you think Hazal were idiots and did not know about people who drank excessively? Still they legislated that people should drink on Purim.
children that get carried away with the drinking often find this as a stepping stone and continue drinking during the year. from there it continues downhill to add cigarettes and drugs. i hope Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky S’hlita puts a ban on all drinking for us adults (the role models) and the teens.
I hope he addresses the concept that bochurim should never drive, not drunk not sober.
Not a mitzva to get stinken drunk but chazal do say”chayav inish…”. So there is some type of middle way.
The chazon ish whem asked if one may learn with bochurim certain sugyos (that some felt were inappropriate) used to say that divrei torah cannot be Mazik. I feel strongly the same about the mitzvah asei midivrei sofrim of getting drunk on purim, although there may be a drinking problem (maybe) the source CANNOT be from a mitzva!
i am not a rabbi however all these posts sound like politically correct reform judaism..
when i was a child in school we were taught by our rabbis the mitzvah on purim was to get stone drunk.. however since a scholar talmid chacham was not permitted to appear drunk publicly he was therefore obligated to become inebriated and then go to sleep..
it seems we are allowing american secularism to interfere with the commandment of ad dloh yadah… ( smells like reform judaism to me)
Drinking to excess on Purim is just another example of the yetzer hara getting ahold of us: Those who cite the gemara saying it is a mitzvah ignore the fact that the incident of Rabbah and Rav Zeira immediately follows.
Chayav inish livisumei is no less a mitzvoh than the other mitzvos of purim . You don’t see anyone hating on the constant wife beatings in hasidic communities, but every year come purim time we rehash this discussion. Its time to man up and realize that alcohol is an important part of Jewish life and like anything else needs to be done in moderation. Telling people not to drink because some people drive to shul drunk or because the women get upset that seudas get a little wild is plain old antisemitism.
I listened to the conference call and Reb Shmuel was amazing!!
He said that it is an avaira to get drunkand a bigger avairah to say tat it is a mitzvah to drink
I I were speaking and I was a Gadol I would take the following route.
It is forbidden to drink. There is not if ands or buts. If you would like to argue the halacha please visit me and I will rip you apart.
Once you leave room to wiggled saying that only a certain age that cant drink, or if a child is prone to alcolholism you have thrown your speech in the garbage. It will have an impact on noone.
Are we required to fast on Yom Kippur if it may lead to death? And that is a Biblical commandment. How much more so when you have a danger to the public at large that it is forbidden fulfill this Rabbinical ordinance.
Let us try to actually be happy without wine. Is’nt that a truer and longer lasting happiness!
Good Shabbos
Getting drunk might have been fine in ancient times when the dangers were minor. Today getting drunk is a real danger and you might get into a car and kill your own Bubbie or someone’s baby. Think about that, k’nockers.
Livsumei does not mean drunk. shikur means drunk. livsumei is a state of “intoxication”. Intoxication does not mean drunk, it means to be in an altered state of consciousness.
One can become intoxicated through numerous mediums, happiness can be intoxicating, love can be intoxicating. b’samim can be intoxicating.
Rashi, defined livsumei as “Al Hayain” which could be interpreted to mean that only wine can be used on Purim (NOT vodka, beer, whiskey, scotch, etc etc”. However the participle Ha before the word yaim needs to be looked at. Rashi does not write Al yain but al hayayin. Mekublim have only one reference to Hayain, THE wine, which is the wine of the Etz Hachaim, from before ma’aseh bereshis.
The mitzvah is to become very highly aware of the Purim miracle and the presence of Hashem
There is no mitzvah to get stupidrunk on Purim.
Purim Sameach.
Once a year it is good to get stone drunk anyway.I think it will prevent alcoholism.What a kiddush hashem it is when jews get drunk ,then you can see how beautiful they really are.(they dont get violent,abusive or obnoxious.)How can any rov go against the shulchan aruch who says a person must drink till he doesnt know the difference between cursed is haman and blessed is mordechai.A lot of these rabbis are paskining for financial reasons.If they say what people want to here people will support them.If a rabbi looks like an angel of god,listen to him.I saw rabbi moshe Feinstein zatzal, he looked like a malach , what did he have to say?
Only people who wish to be like the goyim drink on purim
Thanks to Rabbi Kamenetzky for pointing out the ture meaning of “Ad deloi Yoda” Very dangerous drinking is. May the force be with him!