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Israel - Rabbis Slam Court Ruling Against Religious School Discriminating Against Sephardim

Published on: April 9, 2010 08:40 AM
By:  Ynet
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Rabbi Shalom Elyashiv called for protest measures against the Supreme Court Israel - Rabbis vs. High Court: The leader of the Lithuanian ultra-Orthodox community, Rabbi Shalom Elyashiv called for protest measures against the Supreme Court following its ruling in the matter of ethnic separation in the Beit Yaakov religious school in Emanuel.

In a meeting with Deputy Education Minister MK Meir Porush, the rabbi said, “This is a dreadful ruling. This should prompt a great outcry.”

The ultra-Orthodox public is furious with Judges Edmond Levy, Edna Arbel and Hanan Melcer, who fined the school and issued a contempt of court ruling against it and also subpoenaed the parents of Ashkenazi students who stopped sending their children to the school.

Meanwhile, the Kol Hacharedi news hotline reported that the Slonimer rebbe ordered his followers who live in Emanuel not to abide by the court ruling, despite the threat of imprisonment.

“I am willing to be the first to sit in prison over this issue,” he said, and compared it to the situation in which “Jews sat in Russian prisons over their children’s education.”

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He further declared his intention to attend the session on the children’s parents slated to take place at the High Court at the end of the month.

The High Court of Justice on Wednesday issued a contempt of court ruling against the Independent Education Center, which is responsible for operating ultra-Orthodox schools, due to its failure to force Ashkenazi students in the Beit Yaakov school for girls in Emmanuel to attend classes.

By failing to do so, the court said, the Center “helped violate an order to remove any sign of discrimination which prevailed in the school.”

The court ordered the Independent Education Center to pay NIS 5,000 (about $1,353) for each day it avoids implementing the verdict, (as was reported here on VIN News).

The judges also ruled that the parent of each Ashkenazi student who has stopped showing up for classes after the verdict would be subpoenaed to a court hearing at the end of April, where they would be required to explain their actions and might be accused of contempt of court – a move which may lead to arrests or fines. The parents will also be required to explain where their daughters have been studying since their strike began.



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Read Comments (78)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Apr 09, 2010 at 08:47 AM Anonymous Says:

go israel go. Stop the racism now.

2

 Apr 09, 2010 at 08:59 AM Malls Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

go israel go. Stop the racism now.

Sure this is just like Russia. Racism at it's worst

3

 Apr 09, 2010 at 09:01 AM Moshe Says:

That terrible YU established an honored sefardi program at it college That is how it should br

4

 Apr 09, 2010 at 09:04 AM Havdalah Says:

Havdalah is NOT racism! It is FUNDAMENTAL to maintain and keep ones own MINHAGIM and NOT allow outside influences to corrupt. One should NEVER be forced to send their children to a school they feel is opposed to their values or beliefs which would damage their childrens developement. May we be blessed to merit the Posek Gadol Rav Shalom Elyashiv Shlita live to a hundred and twenty!

5

 Apr 09, 2010 at 09:09 AM medinah Says:

Israel is where religious Jews are discriminated against time and time, over and over. But since the discrimination is all in the name of openness and cultural inclusion the discrimination is deemed acceptable by modern society.

6

 Apr 09, 2010 at 09:14 AM censure Says:

very soon the state will start to censure Torah passages which they deem unoffensive and unacceptable for a culturally enlightened zionist state. And they will do this all in the name of ending discrimination. lehavdil

7

 Apr 09, 2010 at 09:15 AM I dont get this, The Ashkenazi yeshiva is against Sefaradi kids? Says:

Is this what is going on? I dont understand? can someone explain to me please. The Ashkenaz gedolim are not allowing sefaradi girls in their Yeshiva?
if that is true, who needs Ahmadinejad?

8

 Apr 09, 2010 at 09:17 AM James Dean Says:

If anyone questions why the average Frum Yid has a lack of Emunas Chachomim, please review the list of apparent racists above.

While one can understand the desire to have separate classes because of Nusach and minhag differences, fencing off the play areas to keep the students from interacting with each other smacks of the United States' "separate but equal policy" in the South.

This is the same South that had "Dogs, Jews and Niggers keep off the grass" signs.

9

 Apr 09, 2010 at 09:17 AM chief doofis Says:

Small wonder why our so called "Gedolim" aren't respected outside their small circles. Perhaps R' Eliashiv, when he opens his Rambam, will remember that the Rambam, the Ramban, The Ibn Ezra, Radak, the Mechaber, Kaf Hachayim, the RIF, nearly all of the Gaonim, etc., etc., were S'faradim (or Eda Hamizrach).

Every single Reform, Conservative, Haskala, etc., etc., were and are Ashkenazim.

The Second Churban was attributed to Sinat Chinam. What do they call this type of racism and hatred?

10

 Apr 09, 2010 at 09:24 AM wow Says:

I don't believe this is the whole story. I cant believe that these Gedolim would say such a thing especially considering the influence that Sephardim have had on our religion.
On the other hand this school is repulsive. Id be amused to see where those rabbis would be today without the Sephardim. No Rambam, no Shulchan Aruch. Why don't they ban every Sephardi Sefer out there-see where it gets them.

11

 Apr 09, 2010 at 09:30 AM Anon Says:

This has a been a long time in the coming. I have many friends of the family that have been discriminated against disgustingly in Israel repeatedly in all ages and genders of the charedi school system. Note that these people I am acquainted with are not tolerable in the religious level, as most of those that have been rejected are sons and daughters of rabbis, and the children religious in their own right.

I was pretty close to a rabbi that had moved to jerusalem to teach in a yeshiva there, although his little kids, innocent and good kids were rejected from all the schools, forcing him to move back 2 weeks later.
Or the 4th grade girl that got expelled bec. she was accused wrongfully of doing something wrong and even admitted later by the school with just an invitation for her to come back and no apology.

The outrage against this law is nonsense. The few Sfardim that are accepted to the yeshivas are known to be the top in their school. It shouldn't have come to these measures taken by the Supreme Court to give these terrible rabbis (oh, there's a lot more stories I'm not going to say) an initiative to finally Sfardim in open like they do for Ashkenazim.

12

 Apr 09, 2010 at 09:34 AM NS Says:

I totally agree with the court ruling. My "black-hat" cousin in Israel had to adopt an ashkenazic last name to get his kids into an ashkenazic yeshiva...How pitiful.

13

 Apr 09, 2010 at 10:16 AM Anonymous Says:

I bet there's more to this story than just "discrimination" based on sefardi minhagim. I still don't understand why, if Sefardim feel so discriminated against in ashkenazi yeshivos and schools, they don't start their own.

14

 Apr 09, 2010 at 10:20 AM David Says:

Reply to #4  
Havdalah Says:

Havdalah is NOT racism! It is FUNDAMENTAL to maintain and keep ones own MINHAGIM and NOT allow outside influences to corrupt. One should NEVER be forced to send their children to a school they feel is opposed to their values or beliefs which would damage their childrens developement. May we be blessed to merit the Posek Gadol Rav Shalom Elyashiv Shlita live to a hundred and twenty!

No, this is bigotry, plain and simple. The Ashkenazi chareidim are treating their fellow Jews like garbage. And how dare you use the word "corrupt" in describing another Jew's traditions. What "values" would be undermined by allowing Sefardi children to be in the same class with their Ashkenazi neighbors? The only "values" being promoted by Elyashiv and his gang are the values of ignorance, bigotry, and superstition.

15

 Apr 09, 2010 at 10:25 AM Anonymous Says:

To all the Ashkenazim here denying racism, my question is... Are you Sephardi? Do you know how it feels to be made as a second class when you are Jewish? Although you are really the ones that came from Europe, had to resurrect your own beliefs, because decades ago you guys had no clue of nusach or anything, you looked as similar as any other European. My point is, Congrats to Israel for admitting an issue that Ashkenazim like to cover under a rug. Ashkenazim you have a lot to learn from our culture, instead of trying to steal little things here and there.

16

 Apr 09, 2010 at 10:26 AM Just Thinking Says:

The different Ashkenazi Jews have different customs as well. Do German, Polish and Russian Jews have the same Havara? No. EAch have their own minhagim as well. I can't see why we need a different school for each custom. In my School we learned the customs of the different communities and no one seemed to mind it.

17

 Apr 09, 2010 at 10:27 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #12  
NS Says:

I totally agree with the court ruling. My "black-hat" cousin in Israel had to adopt an ashkenazic last name to get his kids into an ashkenazic yeshiva...How pitiful.

what name did he choose? Goldstein? Schwartz? Teitelbaum? Madoff?

18

 Apr 09, 2010 at 10:35 AM Anonymous Says:

Aside from my personal feeling that the decision to keep Sefardic girls out of these schools is pure discrimination, I can understand that if the school was a purely private institution, with no outside funding, operating for profit in a democratic capitalistic society, it could pretty much legally do or get away with what it wants. But here are the facts. Fact #1. This school and the entire system it operates under receive funding from the state. The state has rules about how its taxpayers dollars can be spent, and institutionalizing discrimination is a red line. If you don't want to abide, OK. Don't take public money. Fact #2. The Bais Yaakov system in Israel has donors around the world. some of these are not chareidi, and some of these aren't frum. Have each and every one of these donors been fully informed of the discriminatory policy applied here? Until this is so, it is deceitful to use the donors money to perpetuate something some of them would likely be disgusted by and never support.

Finally, according to the story, Rav Elyashiv said the ruling was dreadful. I didn't hear him say the Court had no right to enforce the law over a state funded school.

19

 Apr 09, 2010 at 10:56 AM Anonymous Says:

It's plain as day to see that this is not the whole story and to proove the point is that the slonimer rebbe is one of the greatest mechanchim of our day and that the chasidim and litvaks would agree on the same thing in Israel is telling of a different story when was the last time they agreed on anything specely schools elah my muz zien that somthings up and we are just getting a one sided slam storey

20

 Apr 09, 2010 at 11:02 AM charliehall Says:

Justice Levy is reportedly shomer Shabat. It is depressing that it takes a Supreme Court order to enforce a Torah principle.

21

 Apr 09, 2010 at 11:05 AM Anonymous Says:

Are we really so weak in our minhagim or are our schools so poor that we need separate schools? Learning minhagim doesn't force you to observe them. This separatism breeds more sinas chinam among fum Yidden. We talk about how we value all minhagim and all Jews yet there are those who take the sad attiude that I love all yidden but "not in my backyard." This time of sefira is precisely when we need to be very careful about how we view and treat our fellow Jews.

22

 Apr 09, 2010 at 11:48 AM Anonymous Says:

The problem is that it is very hard to do brainwashing in an open society. That is why strict separation from all other people is needed if the brainwashing is to be successful. All cults know this and have special separate compunds for their members.

23

 Apr 09, 2010 at 11:48 AM SimchaB Says:

It is very likely that R' Elyashiv is unaware of the rampant discrimination against Sefardim in Israel. I assume he is protesting against the courts interfering with Chareidi education. He might even be unaware of the extent of the discrimination in this case or perhaps these girls are on a different religious level. Otherwise I would have to repeat the words of R' Nachman of Breslov "A Tzadik can make a mistake, and just because he erred doesn't mean he is no longer a tzadik"!

24

 Apr 09, 2010 at 11:59 AM stop the madness Says:

Unfortunately, it's not just Ashkenazim that discriminate. I have heard of a few Bucharians not accepted into Sefardi yeshivot in Brooklyn due to not being Syrian enough. The root of the evil is the existence of separate communities within Jewish people. There should only be one Jewish community in each geographic location. Yeshivos and chasidishe rebbes should teach their unique derech avoda without forming any exclusive community around them - thus without locking any Jew out of our Torah inheritance.

25

 Apr 09, 2010 at 12:01 PM Syrian from Brooklyn Says:

This is why when משיח comes there will be so much room for us Americans to move to Israel
since we (syrians & Ashkenazm) don't fight each other in Brooklyn
It's scary to see what happens to all these horrible racist Jews in a land where people should be holy

26

 Apr 09, 2010 at 12:14 PM MS Says:

There is a lot of ignorance here. The reason for keeping the Sephardim out has NOTHING to do with different minhagim. The askanim have explained the reason: Sephardim come from a different culture, they are not as frum as Ashkenazim, and that is why they have to be kept out and are not even allowed to play with Ashkenazi kids. This is the reason given by the principal of the school.

27

 Apr 09, 2010 at 12:29 PM Leah Says:

Reply to #26  
MS Says:

There is a lot of ignorance here. The reason for keeping the Sephardim out has NOTHING to do with different minhagim. The askanim have explained the reason: Sephardim come from a different culture, they are not as frum as Ashkenazim, and that is why they have to be kept out and are not even allowed to play with Ashkenazi kids. This is the reason given by the principal of the school.

Then why keep them out - mekarev them

28

 Apr 09, 2010 at 12:32 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
MS Says:

There is a lot of ignorance here. The reason for keeping the Sephardim out has NOTHING to do with different minhagim. The askanim have explained the reason: Sephardim come from a different culture, they are not as frum as Ashkenazim, and that is why they have to be kept out and are not even allowed to play with Ashkenazi kids. This is the reason given by the principal of the school.

Not Frum Enough. Fine. Then don't take the not frum enough money from the chiloni taxpayers who support the school, nor from the less frum or not frum donors. disgusting.

29

 Apr 09, 2010 at 12:38 PM verite Says:

Reply to #3  
Moshe Says:

That terrible YU established an honored sefardi program at it college That is how it should br

tons of money was paid "donated" for that "priviledge"

30

 Apr 09, 2010 at 12:58 PM izzy Says:

this is 100% racism and if they don't like the court ruling stop taking money from the government

31

 Apr 09, 2010 at 01:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
MS Says:

There is a lot of ignorance here. The reason for keeping the Sephardim out has NOTHING to do with different minhagim. The askanim have explained the reason: Sephardim come from a different culture, they are not as frum as Ashkenazim, and that is why they have to be kept out and are not even allowed to play with Ashkenazi kids. This is the reason given by the principal of the school.

And, if that's true, why can't the Ashkenazim influence the Sephardim for the better?

32

 Apr 09, 2010 at 01:04 PM David Says:

This has been going on in Israel since 48. There was rampant discrimination in the work force and it has gotten somewhat better.
The Ashkenazi elite didn't want the Sephardim in their schools since they viewed them as simple and somewhat ignorant.
This is horrible.
When R. Elyashiv WORKED FOR THE STATE OF ISRAEL (as a dayyan) he sat on a Beis Din with R. Ovadiah Yosef. I wonder what he thought of having to share his piskei din with a sephardi then?

33

 Apr 09, 2010 at 01:06 PM JS Says:

The Lithuanian Yeshiva world leaders are wrong to discriminate aganist Safardim (there is no other description for their action) and to fight the court ruling. They desire to protect themselves by their attemp at segeration. However, these people should be more confident in how they raise their childern, be less fearful of other religious Jews and find better ways to secure the frumkite of their childern (then segerating them from Safardim). In Reality, the actual result of what they are doing is to create division and needless hatred among our Jewish Nation. We all loose in this very sad, very strange situation. It is a shameful story for those of us in the observant community. Have we learned nothing from History?

34

 Apr 09, 2010 at 01:30 PM mythoughts Says:

Reply to #4  
Havdalah Says:

Havdalah is NOT racism! It is FUNDAMENTAL to maintain and keep ones own MINHAGIM and NOT allow outside influences to corrupt. One should NEVER be forced to send their children to a school they feel is opposed to their values or beliefs which would damage their childrens developement. May we be blessed to merit the Posek Gadol Rav Shalom Elyashiv Shlita live to a hundred and twenty!

I'm not sure why you feel that learning about others minhagim can corrupt your own. Did you learn that Sephardim eat kitniyos on Pesach? Have you started eating Kitnyos because you learned about it? Lets cut the bull, you don't want to share schools with them because in your small mind you believe you're frummer than they are or more civilized. So go and show how civilized you are and set some garbage cans on fire.

35

 Apr 09, 2010 at 01:48 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
chief doofis Says:

Small wonder why our so called "Gedolim" aren't respected outside their small circles. Perhaps R' Eliashiv, when he opens his Rambam, will remember that the Rambam, the Ramban, The Ibn Ezra, Radak, the Mechaber, Kaf Hachayim, the RIF, nearly all of the Gaonim, etc., etc., were S'faradim (or Eda Hamizrach).

Every single Reform, Conservative, Haskala, etc., etc., were and are Ashkenazim.

The Second Churban was attributed to Sinat Chinam. What do they call this type of racism and hatred?

That's exactly why Rabi Eliyashiv is fighting to have the Sefardim open their own schools so they can create such gedolim as the Rambam.

BTW Was Shabsai Tzvi a Sfardi or Ashkanzi and how about Baruch spinoze (the one who is REALLY reposible for laying the groundwork for the 18th century Enlightenment?

36

 Apr 09, 2010 at 01:56 PM Anonymous Says:

I don't think you can rely on anything that is quoted in the name of Rav Elyashiv anymore. I shudder at the thought that this is true.

37

 Apr 09, 2010 at 02:06 PM Moshe Says:

Reply to #27  
Leah Says:

Then why keep them out - mekarev them

It is not a question of being mekarev them. All these Sephardim are 100 religious. But they are not "frum", that is, they are not heimish, they don't follow all the Ashkenazi haredi shtick, and also they follow Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef as their leader and he is pasul according to many of the Litvaks. These Ashkenazi haredim have a really different outlook than us. You should read some of the interviews in the Israeli papers. They can't understand why anyone is offended if they don't want to allow the Sephardim in or let their children play with them. They are making a big deal about how they have the right to give their children any type of chinuch they want and keep out whoever they want.

The best reason for keeping out the Sephardim was given by one of these haredi educators. He said that some of the relatives (not parents!) of the Sephardim have TVs and that means that the hashkafos of the children are not pure.since they may sometimes visit these homes.

Let's not forget, in Emanuel they locked the gate between the Ashkenazim and Sephardim so that the girls could not be together. And of course we can't forget last year when Yated said that Yemenites smell, and that R. Amar is krum

38

 Apr 09, 2010 at 02:10 PM I just HOPE Says:

Kol Yisroel Areivim

I just hope the Nissim, Sutton, Nesser, Sitt, Sasson, Safdeye, Adjimi, Mizrahi
Harary, Cabasso, Issako , Rahel, Saff, Esses, Salem, Beyda, Assoulin, Betesh
FAMILIES send all those Ashkenazi shnorers PACKING empty handed.

They support and maintain Torah institutions regardless of county of Origin.
In a Big Way-Hope they learn $$$ talks, BS walks

39

 Apr 09, 2010 at 02:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
MS Says:

There is a lot of ignorance here. The reason for keeping the Sephardim out has NOTHING to do with different minhagim. The askanim have explained the reason: Sephardim come from a different culture, they are not as frum as Ashkenazim, and that is why they have to be kept out and are not even allowed to play with Ashkenazi kids. This is the reason given by the principal of the school.

You're telling me that none of the Sphardi students are as frum as the ashkenazi students? I doubt it!

That's precisely the problem! They are lumping all sfardim into one category and creating unnecessary barriers. In that school, less-frum askenazim can play with more-frum ashkenazim? Where is the consistency?

That's why it is racism, bigotry, ans sinas chinam! Yes, there is a lot of ignorance here!

40

 Apr 09, 2010 at 02:47 PM Anonymous Says:

In the Galut the Goyim discriminate against us, but in Israel we discriminate against ourselves. This school is completely ridiculous and there is no legitimate reason fro what they're doing. Jews should not be discriminating against other Jews.

41

 Apr 09, 2010 at 02:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Havdalah Says:

Havdalah is NOT racism! It is FUNDAMENTAL to maintain and keep ones own MINHAGIM and NOT allow outside influences to corrupt. One should NEVER be forced to send their children to a school they feel is opposed to their values or beliefs which would damage their childrens developement. May we be blessed to merit the Posek Gadol Rav Shalom Elyashiv Shlita live to a hundred and twenty!

If it is fundamental, then perhaps you folks can stop taking tax money from the rest of us to support these schools.

42

 Apr 09, 2010 at 03:42 PM yungerman Says:

Reply to #23  
SimchaB Says:

It is very likely that R' Elyashiv is unaware of the rampant discrimination against Sefardim in Israel. I assume he is protesting against the courts interfering with Chareidi education. He might even be unaware of the extent of the discrimination in this case or perhaps these girls are on a different religious level. Otherwise I would have to repeat the words of R' Nachman of Breslov "A Tzadik can make a mistake, and just because he erred doesn't mean he is no longer a tzadik"!

Yeah, sure he is.

43

 Apr 09, 2010 at 03:44 PM Careful Says:

The Sepharadim are discriminated against like crazy. While it is true that they are not always as frum, they are also not educated. Sometimes frum is synonymous with "machmir" which is a giant fallacy. I wonder what would be said about Hillel if he lived today.

The "elite" Ashkenazim who built the State of Israel never wanted the Sepharadim to integrate. No big wonder what was done to the Yemenite children. See Rabbi Meir Kahane's book - Uncomfortable Questions for Comfortable Jews to understand what the sorry state of Sepharadim was from back then.

If in fact, the psak of R' Elyashiv is as mentioned above, it is quite interesting. While I cannot dare argue or criticize, I remind everyone that the Rabbis are often misinformed by people who have agendas - the Lipa concert comes to mind, as was clearly explained by R' Shmuel Kamentzky at the time.

Either way, be careful what is said about Rabbis, especially publicly. Even if they are blatantly wrong, we need to respect them.

44

 Apr 09, 2010 at 03:56 PM Anonymous Says:

I'm REALLY glad to see that the majority of the commentors here are seeing the racism and bigotry for what it is. Jews have been persecuted and discriminated against enough by other nations, we don't need to do this to ourselves. Major kudos to the High Court, I hope they are successfully able to enforce their ruling.

46

 Apr 09, 2010 at 04:46 PM Yakoov Aveinu Says:

Had Twelve sons by FOUR DIFFERENT mothers
They didn't all turnout Polish or Lithuanian or Ukrainian

47

 Apr 09, 2010 at 04:51 PM David Says:

We should only be so careful as to which Ashkenazim we allow into yeshivos.


Why is R. Ovadiah's daas torah any less than R. Elyashiv? Because he is sephardi? That is ridiculous and circular. R. Ovadiah has far more mastery of torah than any Ashkenazi gadol alive today and R. Elyashiv knows it.

For some reason the sephardim still care what R. Elyashiv says when it contradicts their own daas torah. Its about time that they realized that the Ashkenazim are out to get them and are standing up to it.

We are mechuyav to listen. To R. Ovadiah.

48

 Apr 09, 2010 at 05:00 PM Anonymous Says:

What is HASHEM saying about his children???

49

 Apr 09, 2010 at 05:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #37  
Moshe Says:

It is not a question of being mekarev them. All these Sephardim are 100 religious. But they are not "frum", that is, they are not heimish, they don't follow all the Ashkenazi haredi shtick, and also they follow Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef as their leader and he is pasul according to many of the Litvaks. These Ashkenazi haredim have a really different outlook than us. You should read some of the interviews in the Israeli papers. They can't understand why anyone is offended if they don't want to allow the Sephardim in or let their children play with them. They are making a big deal about how they have the right to give their children any type of chinuch they want and keep out whoever they want.

The best reason for keeping out the Sephardim was given by one of these haredi educators. He said that some of the relatives (not parents!) of the Sephardim have TVs and that means that the hashkafos of the children are not pure.since they may sometimes visit these homes.

Let's not forget, in Emanuel they locked the gate between the Ashkenazim and Sephardim so that the girls could not be together. And of course we can't forget last year when Yated said that Yemenites smell, and that R. Amar is krum

I really dont understand why you are offended when someone says he wont let his child play with someone who has a TV at home, neither would I no matter which origin they come from. It's bout keeping our house and culture as pure as possible in todays age.

50

 Apr 09, 2010 at 06:23 PM Meir Says:

Reply to #44  
Anonymous Says:

I'm REALLY glad to see that the majority of the commentors here are seeing the racism and bigotry for what it is. Jews have been persecuted and discriminated against enough by other nations, we don't need to do this to ourselves. Major kudos to the High Court, I hope they are successfully able to enforce their ruling.

Excuse me, if the posek hador says that we should be discriminating, then that is what the emes is. Not everyone is equal in Torah. A kohen can do things that a yisrael can't do, a man can do things that women can't do. If today's Daas Torah is that only Ashkenazim should receive the best chinuch, we might not understand why this is so, but we have to obey. Just like we don't let women into the Mir, and everyone seems fine with that, we should know that Sephardim are not allowed into every place. This doesn't mean that they are not good yidden. They are, and so are women, but not every good yid is worthy of being in the best shiurim. Maybe we can let the kids in whose fathers have learnt in yeshivos, but the typical sephardi does not have the mesorah that we have and unless you want to destroy our mesoros, you can't let them in. They can have their own yeshivos.

51

 Apr 09, 2010 at 06:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #23  
SimchaB Says:

It is very likely that R' Elyashiv is unaware of the rampant discrimination against Sefardim in Israel. I assume he is protesting against the courts interfering with Chareidi education. He might even be unaware of the extent of the discrimination in this case or perhaps these girls are on a different religious level. Otherwise I would have to repeat the words of R' Nachman of Breslov "A Tzadik can make a mistake, and just because he erred doesn't mean he is no longer a tzadik"!

I'm sick and tired of hearing people constantly defend and find excuses for R' Elyashiv and other Gadol Hadors. If he really has no clue about what goes on in this society and around his communities then God help us all. These are the men than hundreds of thousands look up to and he has the power to control many with his opinions on every aspect of our lives. If he makes outrageous lapses in judgment then it only shows to the true character of this "Gadol" and similar leaders in the Frum world.
And please people don't give me the typical excuse that his assistants misrepresent facts on many issues to him, and that he is isolated from politics and has not time for it because he learns Torah all day long. He is the first one to give serious opinions on politics, laws, halachas, everything!!!! When our Gadolim can utter such hurtful and disappointing opinions on our fellow Jews, you know that there is a mega crisis in Torah world. If our Gadolim condone ugly discrimination between Sefardi and Ashkenazi little children with whatever logic they use, what can we expect from the non religious Jews? In this case the secular Jews have more love for fellow Jews.

52

 Apr 10, 2010 at 02:30 PM Anonymous Says:

All of you out there sound like a bunch of chickens clucking and making no sense. Rav elyashiv is not advocating discrimination of Sephardim and ashkanazim. He is deeply disturbed by the states holding chinuch atzmai responsible for what the parents are independently doing. The secular courts would never flex their muscles the way they are with a charedi institution, if it was chiloni. He is upset with the secular courts injustice!!!

53

 Apr 10, 2010 at 04:43 PM shlomo zalman Says:

Reply to #32  
David Says:

This has been going on in Israel since 48. There was rampant discrimination in the work force and it has gotten somewhat better.
The Ashkenazi elite didn't want the Sephardim in their schools since they viewed them as simple and somewhat ignorant.
This is horrible.
When R. Elyashiv WORKED FOR THE STATE OF ISRAEL (as a dayyan) he sat on a Beis Din with R. Ovadiah Yosef. I wonder what he thought of having to share his piskei din with a sephardi then?

He didn't like it very much and has kept Rav Ovadiah under his thumb ever since.

54

 Apr 10, 2010 at 04:46 PM shlomo zalman Says:

Reply to #50  
Meir Says:

Excuse me, if the posek hador says that we should be discriminating, then that is what the emes is. Not everyone is equal in Torah. A kohen can do things that a yisrael can't do, a man can do things that women can't do. If today's Daas Torah is that only Ashkenazim should receive the best chinuch, we might not understand why this is so, but we have to obey. Just like we don't let women into the Mir, and everyone seems fine with that, we should know that Sephardim are not allowed into every place. This doesn't mean that they are not good yidden. They are, and so are women, but not every good yid is worthy of being in the best shiurim. Maybe we can let the kids in whose fathers have learnt in yeshivos, but the typical sephardi does not have the mesorah that we have and unless you want to destroy our mesoros, you can't let them in. They can have their own yeshivos.

"Excuse me, if the posek hador says that we should be discriminating, then that is what the emes is. "
No, it means that in this case the posek hador is wrong and he must be ignored.

55

 Apr 10, 2010 at 04:48 PM oy vey! Says:

Reply to #50  
Meir Says:

Excuse me, if the posek hador says that we should be discriminating, then that is what the emes is. Not everyone is equal in Torah. A kohen can do things that a yisrael can't do, a man can do things that women can't do. If today's Daas Torah is that only Ashkenazim should receive the best chinuch, we might not understand why this is so, but we have to obey. Just like we don't let women into the Mir, and everyone seems fine with that, we should know that Sephardim are not allowed into every place. This doesn't mean that they are not good yidden. They are, and so are women, but not every good yid is worthy of being in the best shiurim. Maybe we can let the kids in whose fathers have learnt in yeshivos, but the typical sephardi does not have the mesorah that we have and unless you want to destroy our mesoros, you can't let them in. They can have their own yeshivos.

what you are saying is SO stupid and makes no sense. May H' help u to learn how to think and not relying on that kind of make believe. You should begg for rachmonus!
by the way i recently read in kikarhashabat website r elyashiv saying that any school refusing sfardim shoud close.
I can tell u that the discrimination exists also in the US: for instance, different schools for sefardim and ashkenazim (i even heard some people thinking that sefardim eat on the floor without folks and knives...)
the only place in the world where this kind of discrimination has no place is France.

56

 Apr 10, 2010 at 09:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #52  
Anonymous Says:

All of you out there sound like a bunch of chickens clucking and making no sense. Rav elyashiv is not advocating discrimination of Sephardim and ashkanazim. He is deeply disturbed by the states holding chinuch atzmai responsible for what the parents are independently doing. The secular courts would never flex their muscles the way they are with a charedi institution, if it was chiloni. He is upset with the secular courts injustice!!!

Chinuch Atzmai takes money from the state but is illegally separating girls in school based on ethnicity. The courts have an obligation to get involved. If you don't want to follow the laws, then stop taking state money.

57

 Apr 10, 2010 at 10:16 PM Anonymous Says:

A racist, by any other name ,is still despicable .

58

 Apr 10, 2010 at 10:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #31  
Anonymous Says:

And, if that's true, why can't the Ashkenazim influence the Sephardim for the better?

they are hopless

59

 Apr 10, 2010 at 10:26 PM Montrealer Says:

Reply to #31  
Anonymous Says:

And, if that's true, why can't the Ashkenazim influence the Sephardim for the better?

The the morrocons where I come From are all from bt familys and always go off the D
I wouldnt send my kid to a school with moroccans Dealing drugs and selling firecrackers

60

 Apr 10, 2010 at 10:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to # 54 . Not only ignored, he should be condemned .

61

 Apr 10, 2010 at 10:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Havdalah Says:

Havdalah is NOT racism! It is FUNDAMENTAL to maintain and keep ones own MINHAGIM and NOT allow outside influences to corrupt. One should NEVER be forced to send their children to a school they feel is opposed to their values or beliefs which would damage their childrens developement. May we be blessed to merit the Posek Gadol Rav Shalom Elyashiv Shlita live to a hundred and twenty!

Havdalah? Havdalah is between Yisroel L'Amim. This is where you are mistaken. You eqiuate Havdalah Bein Yisroel L'Amim and insist that it also applies between Jews. This is wrong and outrageous. There is no Havdalah between Jews.

Achdus will bring Moshiach, not Havdalah.

62

 Apr 10, 2010 at 10:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
chief doofis Says:

Small wonder why our so called "Gedolim" aren't respected outside their small circles. Perhaps R' Eliashiv, when he opens his Rambam, will remember that the Rambam, the Ramban, The Ibn Ezra, Radak, the Mechaber, Kaf Hachayim, the RIF, nearly all of the Gaonim, etc., etc., were S'faradim (or Eda Hamizrach).

Every single Reform, Conservative, Haskala, etc., etc., were and are Ashkenazim.

The Second Churban was attributed to Sinat Chinam. What do they call this type of racism and hatred?

The Sfardim whom you mention would not be allowed in Rav Elyashiv's Yeshiva (if they were alive). Once they're dead, it's OK.

63

 Apr 10, 2010 at 10:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
MS Says:

There is a lot of ignorance here. The reason for keeping the Sephardim out has NOTHING to do with different minhagim. The askanim have explained the reason: Sephardim come from a different culture, they are not as frum as Ashkenazim, and that is why they have to be kept out and are not even allowed to play with Ashkenazi kids. This is the reason given by the principal of the school.

Sefardim are not as Frum as Ashkenazim? This in nothing more than a bigoted statement unsupported by facts. The fact is that Reform, Conservatiive, etc. were founded and maintained by Ashkenazim. Your statement is absurd.

64

 Apr 10, 2010 at 10:45 PM Pinchas Says:

Reply to #52  
Anonymous Says:

All of you out there sound like a bunch of chickens clucking and making no sense. Rav elyashiv is not advocating discrimination of Sephardim and ashkanazim. He is deeply disturbed by the states holding chinuch atzmai responsible for what the parents are independently doing. The secular courts would never flex their muscles the way they are with a charedi institution, if it was chiloni. He is upset with the secular courts injustice!!!

I don't know what Rav Elyashiv is advocating, but the Emanuel school system does advocate discrimination, and he he agreeing with them here.

65

 Apr 10, 2010 at 10:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #46  
Yakoov Aveinu Says:

Had Twelve sons by FOUR DIFFERENT mothers
They didn't all turnout Polish or Lithuanian or Ukrainian

Good point. These 12 should not be allowed in any school.

66

 Apr 10, 2010 at 10:49 PM Shlomo Says:

Reply to #54  
shlomo zalman Says:

"Excuse me, if the posek hador says that we should be discriminating, then that is what the emes is. "
No, it means that in this case the posek hador is wrong and he must be ignored.

So you don't care about daas Torah? You sound like a typical liberal. And who says Rav Elyashiv is wrong? Because he doesn't agree with your liberal views? Korach also said that everyone should be equal. It is only your liberal views, not Torah views, which says that all children have to be treated equally. If the gedolim think that having the Sephardic kids around is going to have a negative influence, or will prevent growth in Torah study in the Litvishe fashion, then why shouldn't they have separate schools. Torah learning is more important than being politically correct. The Ashkenazic world has been the Torah leader for hundreds of years, and why should we dilute this.

67

 Apr 10, 2010 at 10:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #50  
Meir Says:

Excuse me, if the posek hador says that we should be discriminating, then that is what the emes is. Not everyone is equal in Torah. A kohen can do things that a yisrael can't do, a man can do things that women can't do. If today's Daas Torah is that only Ashkenazim should receive the best chinuch, we might not understand why this is so, but we have to obey. Just like we don't let women into the Mir, and everyone seems fine with that, we should know that Sephardim are not allowed into every place. This doesn't mean that they are not good yidden. They are, and so are women, but not every good yid is worthy of being in the best shiurim. Maybe we can let the kids in whose fathers have learnt in yeshivos, but the typical sephardi does not have the mesorah that we have and unless you want to destroy our mesoros, you can't let them in. They can have their own yeshivos.

The comparisons you make are absurd. They are Halochos regarding the proper roles of men and women. There are no Halochos that differentiate between Ashekenazim and Sephardim.
As for the Posek Hador, unfortunately, our Gedolim are sometimes misled by people who have an agenda and give them wrong information. I will bet that if someone spoke to Rav Elyashiv about the subject, he will find that Rav Elyashiv was misinformed by someone and based his Psak on misinformation.

68

 Apr 10, 2010 at 10:55 PM Shlomo Says:

Also, these Sephardim do not accept Rav Elyashiv's daas Torah, or that of R. Kanievsky. They have their own rabbonim. How can we allow their children to be with the Ashkenazim who accept R. Elyashiv. Why should our children be put in a position to be influenced in a bad way, so that they know longer respect Maran's daas torah?

69

 Apr 10, 2010 at 11:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #59  
Montrealer Says:

The the morrocons where I come From are all from bt familys and always go off the D
I wouldnt send my kid to a school with moroccans Dealing drugs and selling firecrackers

The ashkenazim where I come from are all bts with Reform and Conservative relatives. I wouldn't send my kids to school with them!

70

 Apr 10, 2010 at 11:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #66  
Shlomo Says:

So you don't care about daas Torah? You sound like a typical liberal. And who says Rav Elyashiv is wrong? Because he doesn't agree with your liberal views? Korach also said that everyone should be equal. It is only your liberal views, not Torah views, which says that all children have to be treated equally. If the gedolim think that having the Sephardic kids around is going to have a negative influence, or will prevent growth in Torah study in the Litvishe fashion, then why shouldn't they have separate schools. Torah learning is more important than being politically correct. The Ashkenazic world has been the Torah leader for hundreds of years, and why should we dilute this.

So people who disagree with racism are like Korach? Well if racism is okay then it should be fine and dandy for goyim to tell Jews to stay out of certain neighborhoods and prevent shuls from being built. I mean they probably don't want a bunch of Jews around annoying their kids right?

As long as we're throwing living Sephardim out of Ashkenazi yeshiot, are we also going to get rid of Ibn Ezra and the Rambam? They probably are going to have a negative influence on Ashkenazim too. Next thing you know Yudel'e is going to show up to shul in a turban!

The Ashkenazi world is not the 'Torah leader' for Sephardim. Sorry. If Sephardi kids aren't good enough for your schools then neither is the tax money of their parents.

71

 Apr 11, 2010 at 12:00 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #68  
Shlomo Says:

Also, these Sephardim do not accept Rav Elyashiv's daas Torah, or that of R. Kanievsky. They have their own rabbonim. How can we allow their children to be with the Ashkenazim who accept R. Elyashiv. Why should our children be put in a position to be influenced in a bad way, so that they know longer respect Maran's daas torah?

So having rabbonim besides R' Elyashiv and R. Ranievsky is bad? Does that mean chassidic kids shouldn't go to these schools either?

Unless these kids are going to grow up in a bubble they're going to eventually come into contact with people who do not follow their rabbonim. They probably should learn how to deal with it.

72

 Apr 11, 2010 at 04:16 AM Anonymous Says:

Amazing how all the posters here are so ignorant of the story.Any sephardi girl who accepted the ashkenazi school's standards of frumkeit was accepted,you can even confirm this in the origanal story in ynet.

73

 Apr 11, 2010 at 04:19 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
I dont get this, The Ashkenazi yeshiva is against Sefaradi kids? Says:

Is this what is going on? I dont understand? can someone explain to me please. The Ashkenaz gedolim are not allowing sefaradi girls in their Yeshiva?
if that is true, who needs Ahmadinejad?

Actually,the litvishe instutions are full of sephardim(find me one sephardi school with as much askenazim).This is a matter of different standards.

74

 Apr 11, 2010 at 07:59 AM Jewish mother Says:

Reply to #24  
stop the madness Says:

Unfortunately, it's not just Ashkenazim that discriminate. I have heard of a few Bucharians not accepted into Sefardi yeshivot in Brooklyn due to not being Syrian enough. The root of the evil is the existence of separate communities within Jewish people. There should only be one Jewish community in each geographic location. Yeshivos and chasidishe rebbes should teach their unique derech avoda without forming any exclusive community around them - thus without locking any Jew out of our Torah inheritance.

The Bukharians who were not accepted in the Syrian yeshivot were not halachically Jewish (non Jewish mothers or maternal grandmothers and/or non halachic conversions). There are many children from all backgrounds in the Syrian yeshivot in Brooklyn. Anyone who is halachically Jewish is "Syrian" enough. My mother is Ashkenazic and I married a Syrian Kohen from an old, famous Rabbinical family.

75

 Apr 11, 2010 at 09:11 AM Anonymous Says:

I dont believe for one minute that Rav Elyahiv said this. Nor is it relevant to anyone unless he is their personal Rov and was asked a shailoh. He was not appointed the head of 'Sanhedrin' by anoyone.

This schooll gets govt. money and money from Chinuch Atzmoi. The town does not have the resources for different schools for Litvish, Sephardim, Chassidish, Chardalim etc. If they want money from the Govt., they have to follow rules set by the govt. They cant take the govt.'s money, which is taxpayer money paid also by sephardim, and then try to run their own independent show and play games with people. If they want their separate school let them do it with their own funds/

76

 Apr 11, 2010 at 09:27 AM Anonymous Says:

Its so funny becase in the states the sepharadim and the ashkenazim get along beautifully (same yeshivot, kollelim, work force, etc.) but in Israel they cant get along. Maybe because in the states we have the goyim hating us,so a jew is a jew- FINISHED! I hope klal Yisraelwill be able to love one another on their own . Hashem Ya'azor!

77

 Apr 11, 2010 at 11:24 AM Dib Watcher Says:

What are all these Ashkenazim yeshivot gonna do when the Mashiach turns out to be a Sephardi? Not let his kids in yeshiva?

78

 Apr 11, 2010 at 11:59 AM shlomo zalman Says:

Reply to #66  
Shlomo Says:

So you don't care about daas Torah? You sound like a typical liberal. And who says Rav Elyashiv is wrong? Because he doesn't agree with your liberal views? Korach also said that everyone should be equal. It is only your liberal views, not Torah views, which says that all children have to be treated equally. If the gedolim think that having the Sephardic kids around is going to have a negative influence, or will prevent growth in Torah study in the Litvishe fashion, then why shouldn't they have separate schools. Torah learning is more important than being politically correct. The Ashkenazic world has been the Torah leader for hundreds of years, and why should we dilute this.

This is not a halachic issue, it is a sociopolitical one. Therefore, Rav Elyashiv's opinion is no more worthy than yours or mine, assuming that your yeshiva ever granted you the luxury of independent thought. Daas Torah is a fabricated modern invention and is a euphemism for mind control. I have no obligation to buy into it. In any case, on this issue Rav Elyashiv is wrong, assuming again, that he actually said what was reported. Like # 75, I have my doubts.

79

 Apr 12, 2010 at 03:12 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #50  
Meir Says:

Excuse me, if the posek hador says that we should be discriminating, then that is what the emes is. Not everyone is equal in Torah. A kohen can do things that a yisrael can't do, a man can do things that women can't do. If today's Daas Torah is that only Ashkenazim should receive the best chinuch, we might not understand why this is so, but we have to obey. Just like we don't let women into the Mir, and everyone seems fine with that, we should know that Sephardim are not allowed into every place. This doesn't mean that they are not good yidden. They are, and so are women, but not every good yid is worthy of being in the best shiurim. Maybe we can let the kids in whose fathers have learnt in yeshivos, but the typical sephardi does not have the mesorah that we have and unless you want to destroy our mesoros, you can't let them in. They can have their own yeshivos.

oh right, it CAN'T be that the "daas torah" is wrong, no, no, it has to be that really hashem likes litvak jews more, right? wait a second, how about this, the daas torah also says that you're not allowed to return a cell phone if you find it lost, even if you know the person and you know that he's an ehrliche jew, "daas torah" wrote a tshuva forbidding it....take your "daas torah" back to where it came from, which is the catholic church....

80

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