Welcome, Guest! - or
Easy to remember!  »  VinNews.com

Waterloo, IA - Child Labor Charges Dropped Except Against Rubashkin, Case Won't Be Delayed

Published on: May 4, 2010 02:44 PM
Change text size Text Size  

Waterloo, IA - The state trial of former Agriprocessors executive Sholom Rubashkin will move forward, a judge said, despite concerns from defense attorneys about the local jail not meeting their client’s religious needs.

Black Hawk County District Associate Judge Nathan Callahan also denied a defense motion Tuesday to delay Rubashkin’s trial on 83 misdemeanor child labor charges until July because of pre-trial publicity and new evidence presented to the defense.

The state alleges minors worked excessive hours and were exposed to poisonous chemicals and dangerous machinery while working at the kosher slaughterhouse in Postville.

Defense attorney F. Montgomery Brown said Rubashkin, an orthodox Jew, has not eaten since noon on Monday. The Black Hawk County jail had not offered kosher food that met Rubashkin’s stringent religious requirements, he said.

The county sheriff agreed to meet with a rabbi provided by Rubashkin’s family that will detail his religious needs.

When Rubashkin, 50, arrived at the county jail yesterday, guards initially had to carry him to around because he cannot walk without his yarmulke and religious undershirt, Brown said.

Advertisement:

“I can’t represent a client that’s not going to eat,” he said.

Rubashkin walked in to court Tuesday wearing his usual yarmulke and black suit coat and pants. His family handed him a prayer book in Hebrew, which he read from aloud in the courtroom before the judge arrived.

Judge Callahan said Iowa law does not require Rubashkin to be present during the trial, so it will proceed without him, if necessary.

“I’m not trying to be disrespectful of anybody’s religious traditions or beliefs,” he said. “But I’m not derailing this proceeding because of his choice.”

Brown argued he needed more time to investigate several videotaped interviews because they were just provided to him on Friday.

The tapes show three potential witnesses, despite repeated questioning, telling investigators they do not know if Rubashkin knew underage workers were at the plant, Brown said.

Callahan said he may consider allowing the defense a few days to review the evidence.

Prosecutors said the trial should not be delayed because eight former underage workers flown in from Guatemala to testify are only authorized to remain in the country until early July.

Brown said pre-trial publicity from Rubashkin’s sentencing hearing last week on federal financial fraud crimes, as well as an article in Monday’s Des Moines Register, could prejudice the jury.

Only Rubashkin, who pleaded not guilty to all counts of child labor violations, will face trial on child labor charges.

Prosecutors whittled down the number of charges from the initial 9,201 to ensure the trial is completed in a reasonable amount of time.

Agriprocessors Inc. pleaded guilty to all counts, company attorney Mark Weinhardt said. Prosecutors have dismissed charges against Abraham Aaron Rubashkin, family patriarch and company founder, and Laura Althouse, a human resources employee.

Prosecutors told the judge they are working on an agreement with human resources employee Karina Freund and human resources manager Elizabeth Billmeyer that will be resolved in the next few days.

Aaron Rubashkin was present as a corporate officer of Agriprocessors, the company attorney said.

Jury selection will begin this afternoon.

Sholom Rubashkin was convicted in federal court of 86 financial fraud charges in November. Last month, he tearfully apologized at his sentencing hearing. Prosecutors recommended a 25-year sentence.



More of today's headlines

New York - According to ABC News, Police recently found a hand-drawn map of the 4, 5 and 6 subway lines, as well as the Bowling Green stop and the Staten Island Ferry... Washington - A Pakistani-born U.S. citizen was hauled off a plane about to fly to the Middle East and will face terrorism charges in the failed attempt to explode a...

 

Total103

Read Comments (103)  —  Post Yours »

1

 May 04, 2010 at 02:51 PM Sarah Says:

Ridiculous. "Because of his choice" ....because he won't eat treif? Yeah, he is just being obnoxious...how dare he want to follow his religion... poor guy. This is such a mess

2

 May 04, 2010 at 02:58 PM moshe der g Says:

this what the article says

"Prosecutors told the judge they are working on an agreement with human resources employee Karina Freund and human resources manager Elizabeth Billmeyer that will be resolved in the next few days. "

yes so that they can "testify" against SMR what a chutzpah they dont let him go they need to paint him as a bad person.

and they knew what he needs to eat but they want to punish him mamash like 50 years ago in a different country.

how long can we suffer

3

 May 04, 2010 at 03:03 PM Anonymous Says:

This shows the obvious that it's a witch hunt on shaloms life

4

 May 04, 2010 at 03:06 PM Anonymous Says:

nebach..!!!! how much can one yid suffer we all have to start doing tushva my heart goes out for him and his family

5

 May 04, 2010 at 03:06 PM Benny Says:

"The county sheriff agreed to meet with a rabbi provided by Rubashkin’s family that will detail his religious needs"
Why doesnt anyone know the meaning of 'prison'?? If he had such stringant religious values, he wouldnt be in jail now, would he? NOW he is a big religous man? Dont eat!!

6

 May 04, 2010 at 03:16 PM volvi Says:

Sorry......i can't take it anymore.........i just can't........

7

 May 04, 2010 at 03:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Benny Says:

"The county sheriff agreed to meet with a rabbi provided by Rubashkin’s family that will detail his religious needs"
Why doesnt anyone know the meaning of 'prison'?? If he had such stringant religious values, he wouldnt be in jail now, would he? NOW he is a big religous man? Dont eat!!

YOU need help

8

 May 04, 2010 at 03:19 PM outraged Says:

I'm just about ready to vomit. They have obviously pinned him up on the board as a huge "monster" who needs to be destroyed. Anyone with a brain and eyes can see that this "child labor" trial against him is just a witch hunt.

Amazingly, they see it fit to dismiss the charges against all the managers, etc, the most likely people (if anyone) to have an inkling that some of these workers may have lied about their age. Are we really to believe that in a company of some 1,000 workers the top executive would know of this? But yet they target him and him only!

That's beside the point that the entire charge is extremely trumped up. If these workers LIED about their age, how can you blame the managers??

9

 May 04, 2010 at 03:20 PM Anonymous Says:

(reply to #5) because that's the law in the United States

10

 May 04, 2010 at 03:25 PM Can't eat? Says:

I can not believe they didn't offer him fruit (whole not cut)...If he turned that down, its his own fault. (He could use a napkin to cover his head to make a brocha.)

Can't walk without his Yarmulka? B'Shas Hadchak one can walk without a yarmulka, although he couldn't daven....Using these 'religious issues' as a reason to drop a trial is such Chilul Hashem.....

11

 May 04, 2010 at 03:31 PM outraged Says:

With the way they are dealing with this so far: dropping charges on anyone except for him (their preferred fall guy) and with this judge's flippant and dismissive attitude to his religious needs, we can already see what kind of "fair" trial he will get.

This same judge is one of the few who performs gay marriages in Iowa, no doubt because he cares deeply about people's rights, yet here he doesn't seem to be to concerned, in the least, with this person's religious rights.

12

 May 04, 2010 at 03:34 PM chochum Says:

Reply to #5  
Benny Says:

"The county sheriff agreed to meet with a rabbi provided by Rubashkin’s family that will detail his religious needs"
Why doesnt anyone know the meaning of 'prison'?? If he had such stringant religious values, he wouldnt be in jail now, would he? NOW he is a big religous man? Dont eat!!

Benny, I'm in awe of your chuchma and good heart.

The last I checked in the USA someone, who is accused of a crime still has rights, and his religious rights may not be violated.

14

 May 04, 2010 at 03:41 PM Rivka Says:

Hashem will keep him and safegaurd him. My prayers go out to him and his family.

15

 May 04, 2010 at 03:43 PM Babishka Says:

When job applicants present false documents (proof of age, immigration status, fake SSN), the employer is not allowed to challenge the authenticity of those documents because that would be a "civil rights violation."

16

 May 04, 2010 at 03:43 PM professor Says:

It is insane to cut slack to human resources and go after Rabashkin. He is clearly less in the know.

18

 May 04, 2010 at 04:03 PM deepthinker Says:

"...Prosecutors whittled down the number of charges from the initial 9,201..."

9,201 charges??? What did he do?--Blow up Times Square, and kill 9,201 people?--Are you kidding?

Isn't it obvious that they're just going through the big fat rulebook, in search of anything that can remotely be applied to their case agains Sholom Mordechai.

May haShem turn their evil plans on their faces!

19

 May 04, 2010 at 04:05 PM Anonymous Says:

כיון דאידחי אידחי

20

 May 04, 2010 at 04:08 PM Anonymous Says:

If they lied about their age, what's to prevent them from lying again when they give testimony against smr?
And why were the charges dropped or in the process of being dropped for everyone except smr?
It all a smr-campaign-(smear campaign ).

21

 May 04, 2010 at 04:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

(reply to #5) because that's the law in the United States

Actually, these are state charges. Laws are different there.

He has to be dragged because he did not weat tzizit and a Kippah? What utter nonsense. He is in jail fighting for his life. The goyim look down at him because he cannot walk without tzizit. What do you think he wears when he goes swimming?

22

 May 04, 2010 at 04:16 PM Dave Says:

Reply to #8  
outraged Says:

I'm just about ready to vomit. They have obviously pinned him up on the board as a huge "monster" who needs to be destroyed. Anyone with a brain and eyes can see that this "child labor" trial against him is just a witch hunt.

Amazingly, they see it fit to dismiss the charges against all the managers, etc, the most likely people (if anyone) to have an inkling that some of these workers may have lied about their age. Are we really to believe that in a company of some 1,000 workers the top executive would know of this? But yet they target him and him only!

That's beside the point that the entire charge is extremely trumped up. If these workers LIED about their age, how can you blame the managers??

If they can show the Managers knew the workers were underage, the fact that the workers lied is irrelevant.

That is the burden the prosecution is facing in this case. Note that as of July 1st, the standard in Iowa shifts to being "negligence" (so then the standard would be knew or should have known). That doesn't affect these charges, but is almost certainly a change in the law because of this case.

23

 May 04, 2010 at 04:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

(reply to #5) because that's the law in the United States

So the guy who attempted to blow up times square will get all the religious considerations and will be given a minor jail sentence, but SMR ..........................
Now I can see how the city of Sedom operated.

24

 May 04, 2010 at 04:20 PM ROlson Says:

Witch-hunt is an understatement!!! Aaron Rubashkin is present at the trial as a "corporate represenative? The others deals make any testimony they give suspect at best!!

25

 May 04, 2010 at 04:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Can't eat? Says:

I can not believe they didn't offer him fruit (whole not cut)...If he turned that down, its his own fault. (He could use a napkin to cover his head to make a brocha.)

Can't walk without his Yarmulka? B'Shas Hadchak one can walk without a yarmulka, although he couldn't daven....Using these 'religious issues' as a reason to drop a trial is such Chilul Hashem.....

Your wrong america justice system sucks what happened to Innocent until proven Guilty in japan they got treated better why no yarmulka ill tell u y they want to strip him of everything and the one thing that keeps us strong being a jew WEARING A KIPPAH!!! Just like hitler(rot in H)

26

 May 04, 2010 at 04:32 PM Anonymous Says:

The person who took over the company is a moron. iowa people are anti semites and someone to bail out the comany and reward the entire city as if business just goes on is a complete chutzpah to the entire klal yisroel and the Rubashkin family.

Everyone should boycot the meat coming from the former Rubashkin plant.

27

 May 04, 2010 at 04:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
Anonymous Says:

The person who took over the company is a moron. iowa people are anti semites and someone to bail out the comany and reward the entire city as if business just goes on is a complete chutzpah to the entire klal yisroel and the Rubashkin family.

Everyone should boycot the meat coming from the former Rubashkin plant.

why should we boycott agristar . if anything you should support him and everyone that you will only buy kosher meat from a REAL kosher establishment and not from a plant that treats its workers worse then the cattle that are killed

28

 May 04, 2010 at 05:01 PM Anonymous Says:

one think i cant understand we should take together all our brother and sisters and organize a major protest i belive there are enogh of our peaple feeling the discrmniation and ugly discust in this case ven peaple who understand that if there is a crime you must pay agrees in this case that this is a which hunt and they are dicrminitaing because they can get away with it we should get all the rabbinim involved and do a mass protes let the world know and see whats going on

29

 May 04, 2010 at 05:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Hello shaul from monsey I hope you realize you spoke way to soon, because this fiasco is far from over and its already getting to be real clear. At least the government knows they have one friend amongst us who will sell out another jew in the blink of an eye and could care more about a slight pain pinkie than what SMR is going through

30

 May 04, 2010 at 05:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

(reply to #5) because that's the law in the United States

yes i wish i can get the power to invastigate you i deeply belive you have some trash on you mabey you not even knowing i would put you in for 25 to lfe youa re a low life without any feeling dont u see whats going we can learn from the spanish and thier brother look in arizona even its law they go out they protest and you will see how thinks will change

31

 May 04, 2010 at 05:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Benny Says:

"The county sheriff agreed to meet with a rabbi provided by Rubashkin’s family that will detail his religious needs"
Why doesnt anyone know the meaning of 'prison'?? If he had such stringant religious values, he wouldnt be in jail now, would he? NOW he is a big religous man? Dont eat!!

Do you have a heart or it was replaced with stone

32

 May 04, 2010 at 05:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #30  
Anonymous Says:

yes i wish i can get the power to invastigate you i deeply belive you have some trash on you mabey you not even knowing i would put you in for 25 to lfe youa re a low life without any feeling dont u see whats going we can learn from the spanish and thier brother look in arizona even its law they go out they protest and you will see how thinks will change

I am poster number 5....if it was me you were trying to insult with that run on, rambling sentence you have only insulted yourself....nice education. You should run a business and then rob it blind for personal gain by crying you are too dumb to know any better. You would win!

33

 May 04, 2010 at 05:54 PM Daniel Says:

>At least the government knows they have one friend amongst us who will sell out another jew in the blink of an eye and could care more about a slight pain pinkie than what SMR is going through<

Make that two friends, counting me as well.

34

 May 04, 2010 at 05:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Can't eat? Says:

I can not believe they didn't offer him fruit (whole not cut)...If he turned that down, its his own fault. (He could use a napkin to cover his head to make a brocha.)

Can't walk without his Yarmulka? B'Shas Hadchak one can walk without a yarmulka, although he couldn't daven....Using these 'religious issues' as a reason to drop a trial is such Chilul Hashem.....

Read the article. They asked for more time, because the defense received evidence on Friday and they need time to review it. That is the reason.

They made the request on FRIDAY when they got the evidence, before the incident of the jail guards stripping him of his tzizis and yarmulka occurred. Please re-read the article.

The lawyer ALSO said that he did not see how he could reasonably confer with a client that is being denied food and by the way his civil rights under the 1st amendment.

I find it astonishing how people are ready to hang this man before even knowing any of the facts. He should not even be standing trial for this, he was not responsible for hiring people AND these people LIED about their age to get these jobs. Its quite incredible.

Tthis whole trial is an attempt to add years to his sentence and to rub his face in it.

36

 May 04, 2010 at 06:02 PM Anonymous Says:

if halacha dictates that we can sell sifrei torah for pidyon shvuyin then forsure one can walk without yarmulka and tzitzis to not upset the judge. all smr is doing is ruining it for himself and other yidden who are waiting to be sentenced . SMR dont be stupid now !

37

 May 04, 2010 at 06:05 PM Anonymous Says:

It doesn't say in the article that he didn't get kosher food, it says he didn't get kosher food kosher enough for him, it seems like he didn't like the hashgacha.

38

 May 04, 2010 at 06:53 PM just because they can!!!!!!! Says:

there is no justification for those guards in the prison to take away his yarmulke or tzitzis.
If the only reason he is in prison is because they are afraid he is a flight risk, it really means that he should under normal circumstatces not even be in prison , so even the imprisonment should be more lenient than for convicted criminals.
If there is a central law about prisons and treatment of religious inmates , it should be consulted from the top to avoid this hunger and problems with tzitzis and yarmulke before they happen.

39

 May 04, 2010 at 06:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
Anonymous Says:

if halacha dictates that we can sell sifrei torah for pidyon shvuyin then forsure one can walk without yarmulka and tzitzis to not upset the judge. all smr is doing is ruining it for himself and other yidden who are waiting to be sentenced . SMR dont be stupid now !

"SMR dont be stupid now !”

Why should he and his lawyers stop now. The way they have conducted themselves since the beginning has been a big busha and has subjected yiddin all over to greater risk and persecution. Their whole defense was that he was too simple minded to understand the complexities of the business world and his religious beliefs trumped any concerns about the legalities of what he was doing. Now they are insisting on special treatment for his state trial. No one will argue the sentence is too much for what he was convicted of but why do they continue to make this a daily spectacle and circus?

40

 May 04, 2010 at 07:11 PM Anonymous Says:

No jail or prison in the United States gives prisoners their choice of hashgacha in addition to providing basic kosher food. If SMR is deliberately trying to destroy whatever small element of good will and sympathy he may have obtained as a result of the excessive sentence requested by the federal prosecutors, he is being successful. Kvetching about not having the right hashgacha or walking wihthout his tallis katan is only going to make his situation even worse and he will have only himself to blame.

41

 May 04, 2010 at 07:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #37  
Anonymous Says:

It doesn't say in the article that he didn't get kosher food, it says he didn't get kosher food kosher enough for him, it seems like he didn't like the hashgacha.

I guess when u were a kid and ur rebbe or teacher punished u your parents prob said" u prob deserved it now go to your room there is no supper for u tonite"please give the guy a break he's in solitary because he got beat up the least they can do is give him food!!!

42

 May 04, 2010 at 07:21 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:

Reply to #11  
outraged Says:

With the way they are dealing with this so far: dropping charges on anyone except for him (their preferred fall guy) and with this judge's flippant and dismissive attitude to his religious needs, we can already see what kind of "fair" trial he will get.

This same judge is one of the few who performs gay marriages in Iowa, no doubt because he cares deeply about people's rights, yet here he doesn't seem to be to concerned, in the least, with this person's religious rights.

They didn't drop the charges against AGRI, AGRI plead guilty. I don't think the father pleading guilty on behalf of the company helps SMR.

43

 May 04, 2010 at 07:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Can't eat? Says:

I can not believe they didn't offer him fruit (whole not cut)...If he turned that down, its his own fault. (He could use a napkin to cover his head to make a brocha.)

Can't walk without his Yarmulka? B'Shas Hadchak one can walk without a yarmulka, although he couldn't daven....Using these 'religious issues' as a reason to drop a trial is such Chilul Hashem.....

When u will be stripped of all physical contact with the outside world then u can talk BIG MOUTH! All he has is his religous belief let him were a tallis all day if it eases his pain

44

 May 04, 2010 at 07:54 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
Anonymous Says:

Your wrong america justice system sucks what happened to Innocent until proven Guilty in japan they got treated better why no yarmulka ill tell u y they want to strip him of everything and the one thing that keeps us strong being a jew WEARING A KIPPAH!!! Just like hitler(rot in H)

wearing a yarmulke is not a halacha or even close to it but it is only a middas chassidus. the only need to wear one is by davening, learning, brochos, etc. wearing tzitzis is also not required if u don't wear a 4 cornered garment. this is silly

45

 May 04, 2010 at 08:33 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #27  
Anonymous Says:

why should we boycott agristar . if anything you should support him and everyone that you will only buy kosher meat from a REAL kosher establishment and not from a plant that treats its workers worse then the cattle that are killed

There was nothing unreal about Agriprocessors' kashrus.

46

 May 04, 2010 at 09:12 PM also not required... Says:

Reply to #44  
Anonymous Says:

wearing a yarmulke is not a halacha or even close to it but it is only a middas chassidus. the only need to wear one is by davening, learning, brochos, etc. wearing tzitzis is also not required if u don't wear a 4 cornered garment. this is silly

What's with the beard? - cut that silly thing. And why keep the weird ancient Jewish name - what's wrong with "Kevin"? Offensive outdated levush that makes goyim anxious - sillieness all around. Cholov Yisroel: silly superstition, besides, we have a heter for that. Mesirus nefesh to have some fraye yid spend Pesach in your house? Silly. Davening b'arichus - what for? Ahavas Yisroel - I'm yotze if I don't openly hate each and every Jew - so why do these silly people think they have to do more than sufficient al pi haloche?!! Plain silly. ... Or could it be that I am silly? Naah...

47

 May 04, 2010 at 09:20 PM .. Says:

Reply to #45  
Milhouse Says:

There was nothing unreal about Agriprocessors' kashrus.

You missed the play on words. REAL KOSHER is the corporate name for 999, the oldest glatt kosher meat company in the US.

As for the kashrus of Agri - there have been many problems over the years, from the poor job of nikkur (deveining) to the fact that the goyish truck drivers had rolls of labels that made the meats 'bet yosef' or glatt, when they weren't,

Some of the rubashkins were menchen and easy to deal with, while others weren't. Sholom was one of the gentlemen. HE bacame caught up in a business that devoured him. Too bad the real people that ran the plant do not take the blame for what they did.

48

 May 04, 2010 at 09:22 PM joe shmoe Says:

Reply to #10  
Can't eat? Says:

I can not believe they didn't offer him fruit (whole not cut)...If he turned that down, its his own fault. (He could use a napkin to cover his head to make a brocha.)

Can't walk without his Yarmulka? B'Shas Hadchak one can walk without a yarmulka, although he couldn't daven....Using these 'religious issues' as a reason to drop a trial is such Chilul Hashem.....

that might be your opinion! I have a different opinion. that using loopholes is a big chillul hashem. it sounds to me like your opinion is that the anusim were wrong for not using loopholes same goes to all the other hard times. mila is also nidche for p'kuach nefesh. same goes for shabbos etc.

it all boils down to how frum one is. and subsequently to how strong ones emunah is.

49

 May 04, 2010 at 09:22 PM Yidden Says:

Reply to #39  
Anonymous Says:

"SMR dont be stupid now !”

Why should he and his lawyers stop now. The way they have conducted themselves since the beginning has been a big busha and has subjected yiddin all over to greater risk and persecution. Their whole defense was that he was too simple minded to understand the complexities of the business world and his religious beliefs trumped any concerns about the legalities of what he was doing. Now they are insisting on special treatment for his state trial. No one will argue the sentence is too much for what he was convicted of but why do they continue to make this a daily spectacle and circus?

"special treatment"?? That's what you call allowing a yid to wear his yarmulke and tzitzis and eat kosher food? The terrorists in Guantanamo get their Koran, prayer rugs and halal, but this "public enemy number 1" is scronfully denied his basic religious needs.

50

 May 04, 2010 at 09:28 PM Rachmonim? Says:

Reply to #40  
Anonymous Says:

No jail or prison in the United States gives prisoners their choice of hashgacha in addition to providing basic kosher food. If SMR is deliberately trying to destroy whatever small element of good will and sympathy he may have obtained as a result of the excessive sentence requested by the federal prosecutors, he is being successful. Kvetching about not having the right hashgacha or walking wihthout his tallis katan is only going to make his situation even worse and he will have only himself to blame.

You interpret the article to mean "not good enough hashgacha" -- how do you know what they were offering him? But your kind heart jumps in to attack your brother who's blood is being spilled.

51

 May 04, 2010 at 09:36 PM silly? Says:

Reply to #44  
Anonymous Says:

wearing a yarmulke is not a halacha or even close to it but it is only a middas chassidus. the only need to wear one is by davening, learning, brochos, etc. wearing tzitzis is also not required if u don't wear a 4 cornered garment. this is silly

Even according to you, you contradict yourself: Tell me, how often must a Jew daven? Perhaps only once a year? You think they are bringing him his yarmulke when he needs to daven, learn and say brochos?!

I could tell you what certainly ISN'T middas chassidus nor even halacha: sitting in stern, scorning judgement against your brother who is being put through hell in prison.

52

 May 04, 2010 at 09:49 PM Anonymous Says:

There is only one type of food a Jewish prisoner in America gets; it's from the same place with the same Soloveichik hechsher no matter where you are sitting. If he refused the food given, it was because he was not given kosher food, not because he didn't like the hashgacha. I work in the federal prison system and there is no variety when it comes to kosher prison food

53

 May 04, 2010 at 09:50 PM Moral Warriors Says:

Reply to #44  
Anonymous Says:

wearing a yarmulke is not a halacha or even close to it but it is only a middas chassidus. the only need to wear one is by davening, learning, brochos, etc. wearing tzitzis is also not required if u don't wear a 4 cornered garment. this is silly

Where are all the "moral warriors" today? The ones who are so pained by the "child labor"? Why are they not raising hell? Aren't they angry that Agri managers who actually dealt with hiring employees have all been given the slip?

Or perhaps their holy fight has got nothing to do with law and morality after all... Huh? Perhaps it really is only about throwing their viscerally hated R' SM to the dogs...

If that's the case, just say so and stop charade. Just admit it: you hate the man and want his blood. Because if it had anything to do with "child labor" you would have been screaming bloody hell about the HR managers getting off the hook!

54

 May 04, 2010 at 09:59 PM Anonymous Says:

DOES anyone realize that with all those charges/risky conditions ACTUALLY NO ONE GOT HURT?? tHE state seeing how beaten this man is comes now while the feds are taking a break in delivering the snetence, it really bothers them that these minors worked, c'mon this is just anit-semitism and the state of Iowa will get his punishment big time, save the yidden.

55

 May 04, 2010 at 10:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
Anonymous Says:

The person who took over the company is a moron. iowa people are anti semites and someone to bail out the comany and reward the entire city as if business just goes on is a complete chutzpah to the entire klal yisroel and the Rubashkin family.

Everyone should boycot the meat coming from the former Rubashkin plant.

i am a jew who lives in Iowa and i am no anti semite

56

 May 04, 2010 at 10:32 PM You're right Says:

Reply to #53  
Moral Warriors Says:

Where are all the "moral warriors" today? The ones who are so pained by the "child labor"? Why are they not raising hell? Aren't they angry that Agri managers who actually dealt with hiring employees have all been given the slip?

Or perhaps their holy fight has got nothing to do with law and morality after all... Huh? Perhaps it really is only about throwing their viscerally hated R' SM to the dogs...

If that's the case, just say so and stop charade. Just admit it: you hate the man and want his blood. Because if it had anything to do with "child labor" you would have been screaming bloody hell about the HR managers getting off the hook!

I was very upset to see the HR managers getting off the hook. I don't know what happened. Maybe something was revealed in the pre-trial stuff that showed that they weren't responsible. I hope whatever happened will be revealed. I agree that they share some of the responsibility, although most of it still falls with Rubashkin.

I look forward to more information on this issue.

57

 May 04, 2010 at 11:18 PM some people just have to be right Says:

"No jail or prison in the United States gives prisoners their choice of hashgacha in addition to providing basic kosher food."

So I guess being given meat from 2nd Avenue Deli or Miller's cheese is OK for you? It's kosher enough, right? I'll pay & watch you eat.

58

 May 04, 2010 at 11:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #37  
Anonymous Says:

It doesn't say in the article that he didn't get kosher food, it says he didn't get kosher food kosher enough for him, it seems like he didn't like the hashgacha.

gee I did not realize that this is a piece of gamara, with a Rb Shimon. I can't believe that amongst us - achainy benai yisroel there exists a S%#K that can say this.
you make peshetlech to be metahar american rotxchim.
I don't understand why davka him - the others plead guilty - so obviously they ARE, Why can he not also plead guilty? would he be more guilty that the HR dept head?
I think we are missing the big part of the story

59

 May 04, 2010 at 11:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #56  
You're right Says:

I was very upset to see the HR managers getting off the hook. I don't know what happened. Maybe something was revealed in the pre-trial stuff that showed that they weren't responsible. I hope whatever happened will be revealed. I agree that they share some of the responsibility, although most of it still falls with Rubashkin.

I look forward to more information on this issue.

I'm glad to see that you still have a sliver of conscience to admit that. So maybe there is hope in talking to you. But why does "most of it fall with Rubashkin"? Where is the logic in that?? You had the people who dealt directly with the employees, and then you have someone in an executive office. And you are talking here about a handful of employees out of around 1,000... Witch hunt. Fall guy. Make that stubborn Jew pay.

Perhaps it has something to do with the Governor of Iowa coming out publicly that anything and everything will be thrown at this guy...? Maybe?

You are still not being honest with yourself. Sorry.

60

 May 05, 2010 at 07:08 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #44  
Anonymous Says:

wearing a yarmulke is not a halacha or even close to it but it is only a middas chassidus. the only need to wear one is by davening, learning, brochos, etc. wearing tzitzis is also not required if u don't wear a 4 cornered garment. this is silly

Actually u may not go" dolid amus" without tzitiz its a. " sokuna". Did u ever think maybe he's scared and the FOUR CORNERED thing makes him feel that hashem is watching over him. Give the guy a break they know how imp our religion is to us and that it gives us a sense of security and that's y they're, treating him like this I never knew being jewish was a crime.The time square bomber got charged with 5 counts of whatever and he was out to act out a mass murder on 1000 of innocent ppl.Funny
SLM got 9,021 something doesn't ADD up!!!!

61

 May 05, 2010 at 07:12 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #48  
joe shmoe Says:

that might be your opinion! I have a different opinion. that using loopholes is a big chillul hashem. it sounds to me like your opinion is that the anusim were wrong for not using loopholes same goes to all the other hard times. mila is also nidche for p'kuach nefesh. same goes for shabbos etc.

it all boils down to how frum one is. and subsequently to how strong ones emunah is.

This is not pekuach nefesh,he's not ship wrecked on a desert island. He's in a prison and knows his rites besides he's not doing time yet just keeping him because a flight risk so that means he should not be treated like a prisoner a person is innocent until proven guilty!! Innocent doesn't "tortured until proven guilty"

62

 May 05, 2010 at 07:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #49  
Yidden Says:

"special treatment"?? That's what you call allowing a yid to wear his yarmulke and tzitzis and eat kosher food? The terrorists in Guantanamo get their Koran, prayer rugs and halal, but this "public enemy number 1" is scronfully denied his basic religious needs.

The people in Guantanamo have no trial dates set, and a lot have commited no crimes. Do your research.....OR......how about he goes to Guantanamo? That seems to be the argument that you are making. He can eat whatever he wants if he spends his life there. He was provided food to suite his needs, and he was still difficult. Prison strips you of EVERYTHING, hence, it being PRISON and all, and that includes clothing. In prison you are equal to all the other inmates, and are being punished as one. If he doesnt like it, he wouldnt have done what he did. He knew what he was doing, and he knew how you would all act when it goes down. What you dont know is no one outside of the cult cares, and food/no food/ he will be sentanced fairly in a court of law based on his ACTIONS only....not what is draped across his scalp.

63

 May 05, 2010 at 07:55 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #62  
Anonymous Says:

The people in Guantanamo have no trial dates set, and a lot have commited no crimes. Do your research.....OR......how about he goes to Guantanamo? That seems to be the argument that you are making. He can eat whatever he wants if he spends his life there. He was provided food to suite his needs, and he was still difficult. Prison strips you of EVERYTHING, hence, it being PRISON and all, and that includes clothing. In prison you are equal to all the other inmates, and are being punished as one. If he doesnt like it, he wouldnt have done what he did. He knew what he was doing, and he knew how you would all act when it goes down. What you dont know is no one outside of the cult cares, and food/no food/ he will be sentanced fairly in a court of law based on his ACTIONS only....not what is draped across his scalp.

Nice going!! ever hear the saying?.Only A coward kicks someone when there beaten and down!!

64

 May 05, 2010 at 07:59 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #62  
Anonymous Says:

The people in Guantanamo have no trial dates set, and a lot have commited no crimes. Do your research.....OR......how about he goes to Guantanamo? That seems to be the argument that you are making. He can eat whatever he wants if he spends his life there. He was provided food to suite his needs, and he was still difficult. Prison strips you of EVERYTHING, hence, it being PRISON and all, and that includes clothing. In prison you are equal to all the other inmates, and are being punished as one. If he doesnt like it, he wouldnt have done what he did. He knew what he was doing, and he knew how you would all act when it goes down. What you dont know is no one outside of the cult cares, and food/no food/ he will be sentanced fairly in a court of law based on his ACTIONS only....not what is draped across his scalp.

He's not part of the prison system yet he's only being held because a flight risk. Maybe if u support him he won't haveto sit very long B"eH

65

 May 05, 2010 at 08:04 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #62  
Anonymous Says:

The people in Guantanamo have no trial dates set, and a lot have commited no crimes. Do your research.....OR......how about he goes to Guantanamo? That seems to be the argument that you are making. He can eat whatever he wants if he spends his life there. He was provided food to suite his needs, and he was still difficult. Prison strips you of EVERYTHING, hence, it being PRISON and all, and that includes clothing. In prison you are equal to all the other inmates, and are being punished as one. If he doesnt like it, he wouldnt have done what he did. He knew what he was doing, and he knew how you would all act when it goes down. What you dont know is no one outside of the cult cares, and food/no food/ he will be sentanced fairly in a court of law based on his ACTIONS only....not what is draped across his scalp.

Exactly!! r u listening to urself? So then let him wear his religous stuff! If don't make no differance in the outcome of his trial.I thought u jewish guys were"ONE FOR AND ALL FOR ONE" I don't think your G-D appreciates ur opinion

66

 May 05, 2010 at 08:05 AM Sliver of conscience? Says:

Reply to #59  
Anonymous Says:

I'm glad to see that you still have a sliver of conscience to admit that. So maybe there is hope in talking to you. But why does "most of it fall with Rubashkin"? Where is the logic in that?? You had the people who dealt directly with the employees, and then you have someone in an executive office. And you are talking here about a handful of employees out of around 1,000... Witch hunt. Fall guy. Make that stubborn Jew pay.

Perhaps it has something to do with the Governor of Iowa coming out publicly that anything and everything will be thrown at this guy...? Maybe?

You are still not being honest with yourself. Sorry.

Please, before you say I have a "sliver of conscience," show me your post where you expressed any compassion or concern for his underage employees.

Please stop crying anti-Semitism. We are like the boy who cried wolf. He's being tried as anybody would be. By the way, my boss once did something unethical and, even though it was technically done by others, he had to pay the fine, because he's the BOSS. Sorry, but I can't believe he walked through the plant ever and didn't see the underage employees, some as young as 13.

I am a Jew. I don't like seeing "stubborn Jews pay." I do like seeing guilty Jews pay. We live in a society with its own laws. Even in our laws, there are rules about these things, but I won't get into that.

We are creating anti-Semitism.

67

 May 05, 2010 at 08:08 AM Embarrassing Says:

This fasting thing is ridiculous. We always find food if we find ourselves on the road with no kosher establishments. He can eat fruit, vegetables and bread. No reason to try this silly hunger strike. People are thinking he's one big joke. And I won't even get into him demanding to be carried around.

68

 May 05, 2010 at 09:16 AM Anonymous Says:

One threatens the innocent who spares the guilty.

69

 May 05, 2010 at 09:57 AM Shaul in Monsey Says:

Reply to #47  
.. Says:

You missed the play on words. REAL KOSHER is the corporate name for 999, the oldest glatt kosher meat company in the US.

As for the kashrus of Agri - there have been many problems over the years, from the poor job of nikkur (deveining) to the fact that the goyish truck drivers had rolls of labels that made the meats 'bet yosef' or glatt, when they weren't,

Some of the rubashkins were menchen and easy to deal with, while others weren't. Sholom was one of the gentlemen. HE bacame caught up in a business that devoured him. Too bad the real people that ran the plant do not take the blame for what they did.

"HE bacame caught up in a business that devoured him. Too bad the real people that ran the plant do not take the blame for what they did. ”

So much truth in that sentence. This is where the real and as yet untold story is.

70

 May 05, 2010 at 10:53 AM Anonymous Says:

If ever there was an example of bigotry, this case is the epitome of bias against this man because of his obvious religious (Jewish) chassidic garb, etc. He has been selected out of hundreds of others with the same charges against them & who get away with no jail time or very little. It seems he's a scapegoat, and is being treated as if he was, G-D forbid, an outright murderer. Unreal. This whole case reminds one of darker times in history.

71

 May 05, 2010 at 10:56 AM Meatloaf Says:

According to US law, the buck stops with the top plant official. The CEO is responsible for all aspects of plant operation. To say that SMR didn't know what was going on in his own business is not an acceptable excuse.
What is interesting is that Aron won't have to take the witness stand. He is the epitome of the Teflon Don and the defense would do anything to keep him from testifying, because he could implicate the entire family and half the heshcher organizations in America. Magicians call this mis-direction: look here while I hide the real action elsewhere. Keep everyone focused on Shalom while Aron, Heshy and other family members walk.

72

 May 05, 2010 at 11:52 AM embarrassed Says:

Reply to #67  
Embarrassing Says:

This fasting thing is ridiculous. We always find food if we find ourselves on the road with no kosher establishments. He can eat fruit, vegetables and bread. No reason to try this silly hunger strike. People are thinking he's one big joke. And I won't even get into him demanding to be carried around.

Ridiculous of course. Since you are so easily embarrassed, I apologize if the following queries will embarrass you even more… Here’re some questions:
Do you personally know what they gave him to eat in prison? Do you know if they offered him *fresh* fruit – kiwis and all, do you think it’s clubmed by any chance? How long would you last on fruit? Did you happen to know that the abuse has come to the point that he was denied haircuts(!) for 5 months (well, he could take one on Shabbos, but he’s being stubborn and embarrassing everyone). And if so do you think these people would be willing to accommodate his “fresh fruit and vegetable only” diet?

But don’t you worry – whoever he embarrasses, it’s not you. It will take you a lifetime of avoido, tshuvo, learning and gmilus chassodim to get to his level – then you can talk about being embarrassed…

73

 May 05, 2010 at 12:02 PM Ridiculous fasting Says:

Reply to #67  
Embarrassing Says:

This fasting thing is ridiculous. We always find food if we find ourselves on the road with no kosher establishments. He can eat fruit, vegetables and bread. No reason to try this silly hunger strike. People are thinking he's one big joke. And I won't even get into him demanding to be carried around.

I personally have no idea what Iowa prison system has to offer in terms of menu. But as an example - a couple of years ago Chol Hamoed Pesach I visited a Yid in one of Toronto’s best hospitals (with a Jewish chaplain on staff no less). That Yid requested a “kosher” diet and the hospital was happy to oblige. The only problem was: they brought him a slice of bread (100% chometz / pumpernickel, I think) very "kosher" mit a shtempel and everything. Do you think that prison in Iowa is any better? I for one am neither surprised nor embarrassed that this Jew would rather starve than touch treif. So why are you embarrassed? Or you are just saying this because you are so frum that at the first sign of discomfort as a result of being 5 minutes late for lunch you opt for your nearest Burger King? Just wondering... and bon apetite...

74

 May 05, 2010 at 12:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #67  
Embarrassing Says:

This fasting thing is ridiculous. We always find food if we find ourselves on the road with no kosher establishments. He can eat fruit, vegetables and bread. No reason to try this silly hunger strike. People are thinking he's one big joke. And I won't even get into him demanding to be carried around.

Sure always food when were traveling!!" And 7-11 is coming to a prison near U" Its no wonder moishac is not here yet

75

 May 05, 2010 at 12:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #70  
Anonymous Says:

If ever there was an example of bigotry, this case is the epitome of bias against this man because of his obvious religious (Jewish) chassidic garb, etc. He has been selected out of hundreds of others with the same charges against them & who get away with no jail time or very little. It seems he's a scapegoat, and is being treated as if he was, G-D forbid, an outright murderer. Unreal. This whole case reminds one of darker times in history.

He's not a scape goat, he is the CEO. He is the BOSS who calls the shots. Period. Why cant you understand that????He is responsable for EVERYTHING, personally, that occured on his watch. Funny, though, he claims too 'dumb' to run a legal joint, but he wasnt dumb at all while remodeling his home and his bank accounts....they grew without any advice or problems, huh?

76

 May 05, 2010 at 02:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #62  
Anonymous Says:

The people in Guantanamo have no trial dates set, and a lot have commited no crimes. Do your research.....OR......how about he goes to Guantanamo? That seems to be the argument that you are making. He can eat whatever he wants if he spends his life there. He was provided food to suite his needs, and he was still difficult. Prison strips you of EVERYTHING, hence, it being PRISON and all, and that includes clothing. In prison you are equal to all the other inmates, and are being punished as one. If he doesnt like it, he wouldnt have done what he did. He knew what he was doing, and he knew how you would all act when it goes down. What you dont know is no one outside of the cult cares, and food/no food/ he will be sentanced fairly in a court of law based on his ACTIONS only....not what is draped across his scalp.

Nisht aine fun bnei yisroel

77

 May 05, 2010 at 02:18 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #69  
Shaul in Monsey Says:

"HE bacame caught up in a business that devoured him. Too bad the real people that ran the plant do not take the blame for what they did. ”

So much truth in that sentence. This is where the real and as yet untold story is.

The day when Shaul from Monsey waffles and declares that others were more responsible for the shenanigans in Agri that is the day that Chabad complete the sanctification of SMR. Ask yourself a few questions, is what SMR did akin to what Jews did in the dark ages to stay truthful to Hashem and Torah. What was the Spanish inquisition about? Or when the Russian czars, tried to destroy Judaism, that is why as Jews we were suborn, unbending and unyielding on our understanding what Hashem wants us to do. For sure, the willingness to give your life and treasures for Sanctification of God, but not for making a profit or submit fraudulent involves, using minors to work when they should be in school, exposes humans to harmful chemicals and power tools which is illegal for a minor to operate.
Let’s analyze fact what we know. We know that Agri did submit fraudulent invoices; SMR, just admitted to that during the hearing for sentencing, we know that Agri is guilty on employing minors and exposing them to harmful chemicals, and power tools against OSHA rules, how do we know that? Well Aaron Rubashkin pleaded guilty as the owner of AGRI (not as an individual) and for AGRI to theses charges, so we know that the company is guilty. Additionally, if someone criticizes SMR on any issue he would be vilified to such an extent that some would wish even cancer on their children, ask yourself what is wrong with this picture? Is this really what Torah all about? Not mine, the Torah I know is about love but also about paying consequences for any digressions of Torah law. The day you are ostracizing thousands of Jews who speak up, without fear of retribution that SMR and AGRI behaved in none Torah way, he should show contrition, and we will work on his behalf to minimize the sentence for the sake of his family, but stop blaming us for your misbehaver. Finally stand up like a men, admit to your mistakes, it is not enough to just say it in the sentencing hearing, how about writing a letter to VIN. Like SMR said he was and is a conflicted man.

78

 May 05, 2010 at 02:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #66  
Sliver of conscience? Says:

Please, before you say I have a "sliver of conscience," show me your post where you expressed any compassion or concern for his underage employees.

Please stop crying anti-Semitism. We are like the boy who cried wolf. He's being tried as anybody would be. By the way, my boss once did something unethical and, even though it was technically done by others, he had to pay the fine, because he's the BOSS. Sorry, but I can't believe he walked through the plant ever and didn't see the underage employees, some as young as 13.

I am a Jew. I don't like seeing "stubborn Jews pay." I do like seeing guilty Jews pay. We live in a society with its own laws. Even in our laws, there are rules about these things, but I won't get into that.

We are creating anti-Semitism.

True of False:

Did the Governor of Iowa come out publicly with an op-ed where he said he will instruct/demand that they dig up whatever they can on Agri and SMR and throw the book at him?

If it's true (and it is, it is public info): then how can one say he is getting fair treatment? When they drop charges against everyone (including the ones directly in charge of employment) and only charge him -- what does that show?

But the visceral hatred is just so deep...

Since you are crusader for child welfare, let me ask you: how many other child labor cases are you closely following and so deeply involved in? The company in Texas which was abusing mentally retarded employees and practically holding them as slaves -- have you waged your battle there? Are you even aware that the owners were let off with a slap on the wrist?

79

 May 05, 2010 at 02:39 PM bewhiskered Says:

Reply to #62  
Anonymous Says:

The people in Guantanamo have no trial dates set, and a lot have commited no crimes. Do your research.....OR......how about he goes to Guantanamo? That seems to be the argument that you are making. He can eat whatever he wants if he spends his life there. He was provided food to suite his needs, and he was still difficult. Prison strips you of EVERYTHING, hence, it being PRISON and all, and that includes clothing. In prison you are equal to all the other inmates, and are being punished as one. If he doesnt like it, he wouldnt have done what he did. He knew what he was doing, and he knew how you would all act when it goes down. What you dont know is no one outside of the cult cares, and food/no food/ he will be sentanced fairly in a court of law based on his ACTIONS only....not what is draped across his scalp.

"He knew what he was doing, and he knew how you would all act when it goes down. What you don't know is no one outside of the cult cares, and food/no food/ he will be sentenced fairly in a court of law based on his ACTIONS only....not what is draped across his scalp."

That's a pretty strong dosage of the אמת for the deluded Kool-Aid crowd, who couldn't recognize the אמת, if it walked right up to them, and bit them! Had Rubashkin been 1/10th as מדקדק in not violating דינא דמלכותא as he was in not walking ארבע אמות בלי ציצית, he would not be in prison (and concurrently on trial for other offenses) today. Well said: "He knew what he was doing, and he knew how you would all act when it goes down."

80

 May 05, 2010 at 03:41 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #62  
Anonymous Says:

The people in Guantanamo have no trial dates set, and a lot have commited no crimes. Do your research.....OR......how about he goes to Guantanamo? That seems to be the argument that you are making. He can eat whatever he wants if he spends his life there. He was provided food to suite his needs, and he was still difficult. Prison strips you of EVERYTHING, hence, it being PRISON and all, and that includes clothing. In prison you are equal to all the other inmates, and are being punished as one. If he doesnt like it, he wouldnt have done what he did. He knew what he was doing, and he knew how you would all act when it goes down. What you dont know is no one outside of the cult cares, and food/no food/ he will be sentanced fairly in a court of law based on his ACTIONS only....not what is draped across his scalp.

What are you talking about? Guantanamo?! That is a camp for prisoners of war caught out of uniform. They don't need to EVER be charged with anything; they can be held until the war is over or until they die, whichever comes first. It has nothing to do with the criminal justice system.

81

 May 05, 2010 at 03:43 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #66  
Sliver of conscience? Says:

Please, before you say I have a "sliver of conscience," show me your post where you expressed any compassion or concern for his underage employees.

Please stop crying anti-Semitism. We are like the boy who cried wolf. He's being tried as anybody would be. By the way, my boss once did something unethical and, even though it was technically done by others, he had to pay the fine, because he's the BOSS. Sorry, but I can't believe he walked through the plant ever and didn't see the underage employees, some as young as 13.

I am a Jew. I don't like seeing "stubborn Jews pay." I do like seeing guilty Jews pay. We live in a society with its own laws. Even in our laws, there are rules about these things, but I won't get into that.

We are creating anti-Semitism.

What was he supposed to be, a mind reader? How can you tell someone's age by looking at them? Every worker had papers saying they were of age; it was not his or anybody else's obligation to investigate any further.

82

 May 05, 2010 at 03:49 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #71  
Meatloaf Says:

According to US law, the buck stops with the top plant official. The CEO is responsible for all aspects of plant operation. To say that SMR didn't know what was going on in his own business is not an acceptable excuse.
What is interesting is that Aron won't have to take the witness stand. He is the epitome of the Teflon Don and the defense would do anything to keep him from testifying, because he could implicate the entire family and half the heshcher organizations in America. Magicians call this mis-direction: look here while I hide the real action elsewhere. Keep everyone focused on Shalom while Aron, Heshy and other family members walk.

How can there be a crime without mens rea?

And "Teflon Don"?! What are you, lusting for the old man's blood? You are a very nasty person, and you will yet suffer terribly for what you're writing now. When you come lema'alah nothing will save you: not your learning, not your mitzvos. Your bloodlust will condemn you. Every person the Rubashkins have helped in their lives will appear to testify against you, and you will have nothing to say to them.

83

 May 05, 2010 at 03:54 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #79  
bewhiskered Says:

"He knew what he was doing, and he knew how you would all act when it goes down. What you don't know is no one outside of the cult cares, and food/no food/ he will be sentenced fairly in a court of law based on his ACTIONS only....not what is draped across his scalp."

That's a pretty strong dosage of the אמת for the deluded Kool-Aid crowd, who couldn't recognize the אמת, if it walked right up to them, and bit them! Had Rubashkin been 1/10th as מדקדק in not violating דינא דמלכותא as he was in not walking ארבע אמות בלי ציצית, he would not be in prison (and concurrently on trial for other offenses) today. Well said: "He knew what he was doing, and he knew how you would all act when it goes down."

What's the relative importance of dina demalchusa compared with not going around without tzitzis? Do you have any idea? Wearing tztizis is a mitzvas asei de'oraisa. Dina demalchusa is what?

84

 May 05, 2010 at 03:56 PM So what? Says:

Reply to #78  
Anonymous Says:

True of False:

Did the Governor of Iowa come out publicly with an op-ed where he said he will instruct/demand that they dig up whatever they can on Agri and SMR and throw the book at him?

If it's true (and it is, it is public info): then how can one say he is getting fair treatment? When they drop charges against everyone (including the ones directly in charge of employment) and only charge him -- what does that show?

But the visceral hatred is just so deep...

Since you are crusader for child welfare, let me ask you: how many other child labor cases are you closely following and so deeply involved in? The company in Texas which was abusing mentally retarded employees and practically holding them as slaves -- have you waged your battle there? Are you even aware that the owners were let off with a slap on the wrist?

What do I care what the governor said? It's not unexpected that a politician will commit to "throwing the book" at a criminal. That doesn't mean the jury won't decide based on the facts.I'm very curious as to why the dropped the other charges. I thought his father should stand trial.They didn't drop all the charges against the others -- two of them will stand trial at a later date.If you were referring to the home where mentally disabled people lived (they were residents, not employees) in Corpus Christi, no I didn't get involved, although I was very upset and did write a letter. I didn't wage a battle there nor am I waging a battle here. I'm participating in a discussion. I don't see how that is waging a battle. FWIW, I have done volunteer work with mentally disabled adults, although it was in Upstate New York. I don't live in Texas. I like the way you say "crusader for child welfare" because I've expressed sympathy for the kids who worked there. Yes, if thinking kids should be in school and not employed in slaughterhouses makes me a crusader, I shudder at the thought of how you treat your children. Caring about young people makes you a human being, not a crusader.

85

 May 05, 2010 at 04:04 PM Emes preacher Says:

Reply to #79  
bewhiskered Says:

"He knew what he was doing, and he knew how you would all act when it goes down. What you don't know is no one outside of the cult cares, and food/no food/ he will be sentenced fairly in a court of law based on his ACTIONS only....not what is draped across his scalp."

That's a pretty strong dosage of the אמת for the deluded Kool-Aid crowd, who couldn't recognize the אמת, if it walked right up to them, and bit them! Had Rubashkin been 1/10th as מדקדק in not violating דינא דמלכותא as he was in not walking ארבע אמות בלי ציצית, he would not be in prison (and concurrently on trial for other offenses) today. Well said: "He knew what he was doing, and he knew how you would all act when it goes down."

You deride the people who are protesting the unfair and unequal treatment of a citizen of the U.S. and a fellow (to many, but not all, of the readers) Jew.

Even after it is becoming clear that R SM is on the receiving end of a severe vindictive prosecution (not my words, but the words of six former AGs of the USA), all you can think of is preach "emes" with sarcasm.

BTW, your aramiac and hebrew spelling is flawless - I wonder, though, about the rest of your limud hatorah - is it "lishmo" or is it "karum lachtoch bah"?

86

 May 05, 2010 at 05:19 PM Scary! Says:

Reply to #81  
Milhouse Says:

What was he supposed to be, a mind reader? How can you tell someone's age by looking at them? Every worker had papers saying they were of age; it was not his or anybody else's obligation to investigate any further.

Some of those kids were 13-16. You can't tell the difference between 13 year olds and adults? That's just scary and creepy.

87

 May 05, 2010 at 05:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #49  
Yidden Says:

"special treatment"?? That's what you call allowing a yid to wear his yarmulke and tzitzis and eat kosher food? The terrorists in Guantanamo get their Koran, prayer rugs and halal, but this "public enemy number 1" is scronfully denied his basic religious needs.

#49 - You're right! Sorry, so many of our fellow yidden have no ahavat chinam, just sinat chinam.

88

 May 06, 2010 at 02:59 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #86  
Scary! Says:

Some of those kids were 13-16. You can't tell the difference between 13 year olds and adults? That's just scary and creepy.

No, and you couldn't tell either. There's no color-coding, you know.

89

 May 06, 2010 at 04:48 AM bewhiskered Says:

Reply to #83  
Milhouse Says:

What's the relative importance of dina demalchusa compared with not going around without tzitzis? Do you have any idea? Wearing tztizis is a mitzvas asei de'oraisa. Dina demalchusa is what?

"What's the relative importance of dina demalchusa compared with not going around without tzitzis? Do you have any idea? Wearing tztizis is a mitzvas asei de'oraisa. Dina demalchusa is what?"

How fortunate for us, that we have you to teach us which איסורים are the important ones- like making a smorgasbord out of the תורה (for your information, walking ארבע אמות בלי ציצית is NOT an איסור דאורייתא). The obligation of דינא דמלכותא
is straight out of גמרא, which you have no qualms at all about dismissing, when it suits you (which other גמרא isn't applicable anymore?). In order to defend Rubashkin (who confessed to his offenses), you nonchalantly jettison the principle of דינא דמלכותא without batting an eyelash, never having realized that it was the very violation of דינא דמלכותא that put Rubashkin where he is today. So, please don't attempt to teach us which איסורים are the important ones, and which are not.

90

 May 06, 2010 at 04:54 AM bewhiskered Says:

Reply to #85  
Emes preacher Says:

You deride the people who are protesting the unfair and unequal treatment of a citizen of the U.S. and a fellow (to many, but not all, of the readers) Jew.

Even after it is becoming clear that R SM is on the receiving end of a severe vindictive prosecution (not my words, but the words of six former AGs of the USA), all you can think of is preach "emes" with sarcasm.

BTW, your aramiac and hebrew spelling is flawless - I wonder, though, about the rest of your limud hatorah - is it "lishmo" or is it "karum lachtoch bah"?

"is it "lishmo" or is it "karum lachtoch bah"?"

The expression is קרדום לחפור בו. So, the best you can do to defend your delusional perspectives, is to cast aspersions on me. How impressive! From this moment on, you are denied my person.

91

 May 06, 2010 at 01:54 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #89  
bewhiskered Says:

"What's the relative importance of dina demalchusa compared with not going around without tzitzis? Do you have any idea? Wearing tztizis is a mitzvas asei de'oraisa. Dina demalchusa is what?"

How fortunate for us, that we have you to teach us which איסורים are the important ones- like making a smorgasbord out of the תורה (for your information, walking ארבע אמות בלי ציצית is NOT an איסור דאורייתא). The obligation of דינא דמלכותא
is straight out of גמרא, which you have no qualms at all about dismissing, when it suits you (which other גמרא isn't applicable anymore?). In order to defend Rubashkin (who confessed to his offenses), you nonchalantly jettison the principle of דינא דמלכותא without batting an eyelash, never having realized that it was the very violation of דינא דמלכותא that put Rubashkin where he is today. So, please don't attempt to teach us which איסורים are the important ones, and which are not.

You have yet to show where it is written that one must obey דינא דמלכותא. Where does the gemara say that דינא דמלכותא creates either an obligation or a prohibition on any person to do any thing? I didn't say going without tzitzis is an איסור דאורייתא, I said going with tzitzis is a מצוה דאורייתא, and therefore more important than a mere dictum of the gemara.

The gemara says lots of things. It says to make a noise before you come home, to alert your household that you're coming. Do you always take care to do that? Do you think it's more important than wearing tzitzis? The gemara also says not to have blood drawn on a Monday, Tuesday, or Thursday. Do you obey that? Do you think it's more important than wearing tzitzis?

92

 May 06, 2010 at 01:59 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #90  
bewhiskered Says:

"is it "lishmo" or is it "karum lachtoch bah"?"

The expression is קרדום לחפור בו. So, the best you can do to defend your delusional perspectives, is to cast aspersions on me. How impressive! From this moment on, you are denied my person.

When you use your so-called learning (what little of it there is) to attack a good Jew for his carefulness in mitzvos, you demonstrate that לא זכה נעשית לו סם מיתה

93

 May 06, 2010 at 02:42 PM .. Says:

Reply to #83  
Milhouse Says:

What's the relative importance of dina demalchusa compared with not going around without tzitzis? Do you have any idea? Wearing tztizis is a mitzvas asei de'oraisa. Dina demalchusa is what?

Wearing tzizit is required on arba Kanfot. There is a mitzvah d'rabonnan on a tallit koton.

Chillul hashem is forcing 4 men to drag you around because you want to be holier that the next guy. Chullul Hashem is when you want to blame Hashem for your problems

94

 May 06, 2010 at 03:00 PM bewhiskered Says:

Reply to #92  
Milhouse Says:

When you use your so-called learning (what little of it there is) to attack a good Jew for his carefulness in mitzvos, you demonstrate that לא זכה נעשית לו סם מיתה

"When you use your so-called learning (what little of it there is) to attack a good Jew for his carefulness in mitzvos, you demonstrate that לא זכה נעשית לו סם מיתה"

Hey fella! Is insulting me the very best you can do? His carefulness in Mitzvos? Do you mean his carefulness in מצות like Federal Bank Fraud (to which he admitted), and creating a massive חילול שם שמים בפני עם ועדה?

While the rules of this blog certainly do not permit me to refer to you as the inordinate עם הארץ you happen to be, know that the above גמרא in יומא ע"ב ע"ב is NOT speaking about being or not being מזכה a Jew, but rather about being מזכה the תורה, as רש"י explains there. Take my advice, and don't make it a habit to denigrate another person's learning (for lack of your own). You are heretofore, denied my person.

95

 May 06, 2010 at 03:03 PM bewhiskered Says:

Reply to #91  
Milhouse Says:

You have yet to show where it is written that one must obey דינא דמלכותא. Where does the gemara say that דינא דמלכותא creates either an obligation or a prohibition on any person to do any thing? I didn't say going without tzitzis is an איסור דאורייתא, I said going with tzitzis is a מצוה דאורייתא, and therefore more important than a mere dictum of the gemara.

The gemara says lots of things. It says to make a noise before you come home, to alert your household that you're coming. Do you always take care to do that? Do you think it's more important than wearing tzitzis? The gemara also says not to have blood drawn on a Monday, Tuesday, or Thursday. Do you obey that? Do you think it's more important than wearing tzitzis?

"Where does the gemara say that דינא דמלכותא creates either an obligation or a prohibition on any person to do any thing?"

Denied my person!

99

 May 06, 2010 at 05:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #57  
some people just have to be right Says:

"No jail or prison in the United States gives prisoners their choice of hashgacha in addition to providing basic kosher food."

So I guess being given meat from 2nd Avenue Deli or Miller's cheese is OK for you? It's kosher enough, right? I'll pay & watch you eat.

And what is wrong with 2nd Ave Deli or millers cheese? They meet the minimum standard for Kashrus that a Jew needs to eat. You want to be machmir? If you do not hold from dina d'malchusa, then whatever the malchus does for you had better be good enough.

The standard Kosher food in prisons is under Rabbi Soleveitchik's hechsher. You have a problem with that? Or are you just grandstanding to prove your faux-piety.

100

 May 06, 2010 at 05:16 PM .. Says:

Reply to #59  
Anonymous Says:

I'm glad to see that you still have a sliver of conscience to admit that. So maybe there is hope in talking to you. But why does "most of it fall with Rubashkin"? Where is the logic in that?? You had the people who dealt directly with the employees, and then you have someone in an executive office. And you are talking here about a handful of employees out of around 1,000... Witch hunt. Fall guy. Make that stubborn Jew pay.

Perhaps it has something to do with the Governor of Iowa coming out publicly that anything and everything will be thrown at this guy...? Maybe?

You are still not being honest with yourself. Sorry.

The guy at the top is ultimately responsible.

If you get a red light ticket by the camera in New York, they do not go after the driver. they go after the owner.

I suppose if you lent your car to a goy and he got a ticket, and the bill came to you, you would probably cry anti-semitism.

101

 May 06, 2010 at 05:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #70  
Anonymous Says:

If ever there was an example of bigotry, this case is the epitome of bias against this man because of his obvious religious (Jewish) chassidic garb, etc. He has been selected out of hundreds of others with the same charges against them & who get away with no jail time or very little. It seems he's a scapegoat, and is being treated as if he was, G-D forbid, an outright murderer. Unreal. This whole case reminds one of darker times in history.

He made the choices all along. He decided to kite the checks to the bank. He decided to hire the illegal aliens. But you decided to deal the religion card from the bottom of the deck. Shame on you.

102

 May 06, 2010 at 05:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #72  
embarrassed Says:

Ridiculous of course. Since you are so easily embarrassed, I apologize if the following queries will embarrass you even more… Here’re some questions:
Do you personally know what they gave him to eat in prison? Do you know if they offered him *fresh* fruit – kiwis and all, do you think it’s clubmed by any chance? How long would you last on fruit? Did you happen to know that the abuse has come to the point that he was denied haircuts(!) for 5 months (well, he could take one on Shabbos, but he’s being stubborn and embarrassing everyone). And if so do you think these people would be willing to accommodate his “fresh fruit and vegetable only” diet?

But don’t you worry – whoever he embarrasses, it’s not you. It will take you a lifetime of avoido, tshuvo, learning and gmilus chassodim to get to his level – then you can talk about being embarrassed…

"It will take you a lifetime of avoido, tshuvo, learning and gmilus chassodim to get to his level – then you can talk about being embarrassed…"

Actually, I never stole from a bank. I never hired hundreds of illegal aliens. It will take him a lifetime to reach my level

103

 May 06, 2010 at 05:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #82  
Milhouse Says:

How can there be a crime without mens rea?

And "Teflon Don"?! What are you, lusting for the old man's blood? You are a very nasty person, and you will yet suffer terribly for what you're writing now. When you come lema'alah nothing will save you: not your learning, not your mitzvos. Your bloodlust will condemn you. Every person the Rubashkins have helped in their lives will appear to testify against you, and you will have nothing to say to them.

The 'old man', as you call him, can take care of himself. His sons and sons-in-law have plenty of experience on how to act in the prison system and Aron has thrown his sons to the wind.

Where were you to tell the Rubashkins that they were doing wrong all these years? probably eating the free boloney that they were giving to everyone else.

104

 May 06, 2010 at 05:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #85  
Emes preacher Says:

You deride the people who are protesting the unfair and unequal treatment of a citizen of the U.S. and a fellow (to many, but not all, of the readers) Jew.

Even after it is becoming clear that R SM is on the receiving end of a severe vindictive prosecution (not my words, but the words of six former AGs of the USA), all you can think of is preach "emes" with sarcasm.

BTW, your aramiac and hebrew spelling is flawless - I wonder, though, about the rest of your limud hatorah - is it "lishmo" or is it "karum lachtoch bah"?

THose 6 former AG's were solicited for the signatures on that letter. If they were so anti-semetic - why did they sigh??? What were they paid to do it???

105

 May 07, 2010 at 04:51 AM bewhiskered Says:

Reply to #101  
Says:

He made the choices all along. He decided to kite the checks to the bank. He decided to hire the illegal aliens. But you decided to deal the religion card from the bottom of the deck. Shame on you.

"He made the choices all along. He decided to kite the checks to the bank. He decided to hire the illegal aliens."

And, he is continuing this entire חילול שם שמים בפרהסיא, through his actions in prison, by using מצות such as ציצית and כשרות, to publicly show his disdain for the system that convicted and imprisoned him.

106

 May 07, 2010 at 05:51 AM .. Says:

Reply to #92  
Milhouse Says:

When you use your so-called learning (what little of it there is) to attack a good Jew for his carefulness in mitzvos, you demonstrate that לא זכה נעשית לו סם מיתה

"When you use your so-called learning (what little of it there is) to attack a good Jew for his carefulness in mitzvos"
Please define what makes him good? That he stole from the banks or that he hires illegal aliens?

What would be the difference when you do the attacking of someone you do not know?

When you use your faux-piety to attack someone that you do not know, well. your hypocricy is showing again.

107

 May 07, 2010 at 01:08 PM bewhiskered Says:

Reply to #106  
.. Says:

"When you use your so-called learning (what little of it there is) to attack a good Jew for his carefulness in mitzvos"
Please define what makes him good? That he stole from the banks or that he hires illegal aliens?

What would be the difference when you do the attacking of someone you do not know?

When you use your faux-piety to attack someone that you do not know, well. your hypocricy is showing again.

"Please define what makes him good? That he stole from the banks or that he hires illegal aliens? What would be the difference when you do the attacking of someone you do not know? When you use your faux-piety to attack someone that you do not know, well. your hypocrisy is showing again."

These deluded individuals who have absolutely no affiliation with the concept of אמת, are only regretfully capable of displaying a completely hypocritical פרומקייט (via a lack of any formal לימוד תורה), followed by the inevitable personal insult of those who are in disagreement.

Of course, what these disconnected individuals don't realize as well, is that denying the אמת, never helped a Jew (or anyone else for that matter). The last משנה in אבות פ"א, states:

רבן שמעון בן גמליאל אומר על שלשה דברים העולם עומד על הדין ועל האמת ועל השלום

A certain אמת may not be very well appreciated, but it is the אמת. Help Rubashkin? As another Jew- yes! But, that help must be honest help, which creates a קידוש שם שמים ברבים- not the constant barrage of חילול שם שמים בפרהסיא this whole affair has thus far generated.

גוט שבת

108

 May 09, 2010 at 12:30 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #75  
Anonymous Says:

He's not a scape goat, he is the CEO. He is the BOSS who calls the shots. Period. Why cant you understand that????He is responsable for EVERYTHING, personally, that occured on his watch. Funny, though, he claims too 'dumb' to run a legal joint, but he wasnt dumb at all while remodeling his home and his bank accounts....they grew without any advice or problems, huh?

#75 - Are you a Jew? Because your comment shows that there's no Jewish heart here!

109

 May 27, 2010 at 01:06 AM logic Says:

Reply to #77  
OMG Says:

The day when Shaul from Monsey waffles and declares that others were more responsible for the shenanigans in Agri that is the day that Chabad complete the sanctification of SMR. Ask yourself a few questions, is what SMR did akin to what Jews did in the dark ages to stay truthful to Hashem and Torah. What was the Spanish inquisition about? Or when the Russian czars, tried to destroy Judaism, that is why as Jews we were suborn, unbending and unyielding on our understanding what Hashem wants us to do. For sure, the willingness to give your life and treasures for Sanctification of God, but not for making a profit or submit fraudulent involves, using minors to work when they should be in school, exposes humans to harmful chemicals and power tools which is illegal for a minor to operate.
Let’s analyze fact what we know. We know that Agri did submit fraudulent invoices; SMR, just admitted to that during the hearing for sentencing, we know that Agri is guilty on employing minors and exposing them to harmful chemicals, and power tools against OSHA rules, how do we know that? Well Aaron Rubashkin pleaded guilty as the owner of AGRI (not as an individual) and for AGRI to theses charges, so we know that the company is guilty. Additionally, if someone criticizes SMR on any issue he would be vilified to such an extent that some would wish even cancer on their children, ask yourself what is wrong with this picture? Is this really what Torah all about? Not mine, the Torah I know is about love but also about paying consequences for any digressions of Torah law. The day you are ostracizing thousands of Jews who speak up, without fear of retribution that SMR and AGRI behaved in none Torah way, he should show contrition, and we will work on his behalf to minimize the sentence for the sake of his family, but stop blaming us for your misbehaver. Finally stand up like a men, admit to your mistakes, it is not enough to just say it in the sentencing hearing, how about writing a letter to VIN. Like SMR said he was and is a conflicted man.

kishka for brains, how do you know they didn't plead guilty to put this behind them, knowing there will be no jail time (or very little)
you speak like you know what you're talking about, no one other then the rubashkins knows what really happened

110

Sign-in to post a comment

Click here to sign-in.

Scroll Up
Advertisements:
Sell your scrap gold and broken jewelry and earn hard cash sell gold today!