New York – Areivim has done an outstanding job of raising public consciousness about the matter of uninsured members of our community and the need to find a better way to do things other than the heartbreaking campaigns that regularly occur – and for this we all owe them a debt of gratitude.
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As you can see from my correspondence with Areivim, I proceeded with the utmost respect for their efforts, and merely wanted to conduct my diligence regarding their very well-intentioned project. The two members of Kol Yisrael Areivim’s leadership with whom I met are polite, energetic people who are clearly motivated to help the klal – and are genuinely interested in receiving feedback. They have both invested enormous amounts of time and effort in this project and have been wildly successful in raising awareness about a critical subject.
Unfortunately, the more I looked into the organization, the more issues presented themselves. All the while, I was contacted by numerous professionals and community leaders who felt that the model created is too problematic and they encouraged me to share that information with Areivim and with my readers. Therefore, with a heavy heart, I advise all my readers who are subscribed or contributors to Kol Yisroel Areivim to dissolve your relationship with them – and it would probably be wise to do so in writing and by certified mail with return receipt requested, so you can have proof of your disassociation.
The Brisker Rov zt’l famously stated that one of the main functions of a Rabbi is to advocate for and support the weakest members of his community – to give a voice to the voiceless. I hope that I have fulfilled that sacred responsibility by advocating for the widows and orphans who might fall through the cracks of a well-intentioned but poorly designed safety net at some point in the future.
The above is a shortened version of the article, to read the full article go to RabbiHorowitz.com
Rabbi Yakov Horowitz is the founder and dean of Yeshiva Darchei Noam of Monsey, NY and founder and Director of Project Y.E.S. (Youth Enrichment Services).
Who ever you are: your “usid liten es hadin”. Who are you to decide on an organization that toils day and night for other people without making a profit.
Who are you to say your opinion on something that much bigger people said theirs.
Who gave you permission to abuse the platform you have.
Shame.
I can understand that Rabbi Horowitz doesn’t think that this Organization will have enough money down the road to cover all the donors for $100,000 per orphan, but why is it imperative to disassociate with them, after all it is a worthy Tzedakah that helps Almonas and Yesomim with your money.
Where does a single “yuchid” take the guts to say this is beyond me.
Bshem omro-The Brisker Rov was quoting his father R’ Chaim of Brisk (on whose gravestone was inscribed “Rav Chesed”)
KT
I’m shocked, I know you well Rabbi Horowitz and know that you’re a very responsible person, so how can you take it upon yourself such an Achreiyess with unforeseeable results? Some people are going to take your advice, but others won’t therefore what happens then? Do we now become kiitois kitois? You had good questions and they had good answers and those questions you didn’t ask, and those answers they didn’t give, were supplied by many readers. Rabbi Horowitz, I respect you greatly, but cannot fathom how you, a one man team can take all this responsibility on you shoulders. Wouldn’t it have been a better idea to call for an Asifa of Klal leaders to come to either conclusion? I personally have life insurance, but I joined anyhow and gladly paid the money when it was asked from me. I have a feeling that it has thousands of members like me; the main question remains, yes, you spoke up for the unfortunate God forbid future Almoness and Yesoimim, but did you speak correctly?
We can all be wrong, and maybe you’re right, but who can take such a responsibility?
Thank you for your well intentioned subtle character assassination of a fine institution.
From my experience it is run like a highschool project, total joke.
“The Brisker Rov zt’l famously stated that one of the main functions of a Rabbi is to advocate for and support the weakest members of his community”
I believe it was actually R’ Chaim who said that.
The title says ” Kol Yisroel Areivim” and in the article itself it says ” Areivim”. They are 2 separate organizations. Does Rabbi Horowitz hold the same about “Areivim”?
Is this recommendation only against being part of the organization “Kol Yisroel Areivim” and not the organization “Areivim” or it is against both organizations?
The people running areivem DONT have a good business history…..
We live in a internet world where a Rabbi can make conclusions and bury an organization like Areivim…I know of 2 almunes who benefit from them and b”h they received the $$$ what areivim stands for..How does Rabbi Horowitz take the achreies to condem such an org……I think he need Al Chyte with a hammer for this one……
I have a simple solution for areivim to come clean. A)the accounting firm you employ to come out with a letter of recommendation.(And it has to be a reputable firm) B)the board of directors / rabbis declare their stance(and these officers should be popular community leaders). After all playing with yesomim and almonos money is a huge aveiroh. And if this is ultimately legid , then hashem will bench you with kol tuv!!
Areivim was founded here in the USA by about 20 chesed organizations and project coordinators. They have a well staffed office and are running it very professionally; people are getting signed up, getting their confirmations, members are getting notified by phone, email, etc before money is taken etc. They have a vaad of rabbonim, a vaad balei batim etc. and boruch hashem to date they helped a nice few almonos and yesomim, a family Lakewood, a family in Williamsburg, a family in Monsey etc,
Hashem should help that the organization should close down fast, we shouldn’t need their services anymore, but in the meantime I wish them great hatzloche
Thank you R’ Horowitz. Showing us all once again what a true leader you are with true courage.
This is leadership we so desperately need nowadays, which is lacking.
Rabbi Horowitz just posted this on his website:
To Clarify:
I met with the heads of Kol Yisroel Arevim which is supported by Vaad Harabbanim.
However, the problems are the same with any of the 3 programs because they are all well-intentioned attempts to “recreate the wheel” and make an insurance program.
There are huge legal issues with that, aside from the practical logistical nightmares it will create.
As I see it, there are two options:
1) Do what I suggest and help people buy commercial life insurance.
or
2) Continue the Arevim model as is — but make it a pure tzedaka, meaning that you sign up to give money if there is c’v a tragedy. That way there are no legal issues and it is much simpler. (I suggested that to the Arevim people as well.)
As for the confusion between the 3 “Arevims”, that is part of the problem that I didn’t create. It IS confusing. And I am pretty sure that most people did not know that there were 3 Arevim programs in the first place.
And the issue with the endorsements needs a great deal of work.
I hope that clarifies matters — at least my position.
Thank you Rabbi Horowitz. For those who doubt Rabbi Horowitz’s conclusions you should read the correspondance yourself. It is full of evasive answers to the very straight forward questions posed. Make you own conclusion.
You don’t need to know rabbi horwitz to know this makes no sense and also illegal in america
Its a shame that our leaders are not educated financially and make such weird organizations based on no cheshbon
In theory this is a great idea, but it does not stand a chance of succeeding.
the fact that people complain shows there doing something good
Before you badmouth Rabbi Horowitz,Just imagine the following scenario, Yankel is 35 yers and healthy he could without any problem afford to buy plenty of Life Insurance but he just signs up with Areivim thinking he will have free Life Insurance, in 10 years from now Areivim for whatever reason is no longer around, Yankel is now 45 with 10 children but has Medical Condition and can’t buy Life Insurance or ch”v Yankel passed away and his almonah and yesomim are pennyless, why, since Yankel could have bought a Life Insurance and did not since he was made to believe that Areivim is Free Life Insurance and now his family will nebech suffer
Being Motzti Shem Ra on an organization that has already helped L.A. several
Almonos and Yesomin, is a VERY SINFUL act.
I am a member, whose children are B.H. married. When I receive the calls
from Areivim I am more than happy to be part of such a great mitzva, that cost so little..
Areivim is Mezake the Rabbim, by making thousands of people contribute to
each cause.
Nothing is garuanteed, and down the road, I hate to tell you that insurance
companies can also go bankrupt. Everybody has his own mazel, and so
does the beneficiary.
I hate to tell you, but we invested in insurance companies in Europe and
got back pennies on the dollars when the policies matured!
We are not supposed to play G-d, we must do Hishtadlus, and the outcome
does not depend on us. In the meantime, thousands of people gave
Tzedaka (by not making too big a dent in anybody’s pocket), quite a number
of needy people were helped B’derech Kovod, WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO
SAY, “IF YOU CAN’T FIX IT BREAK IT?”
Causing people to refrain from giving Tzedaka is a big Aveira,
This news blog did not sound like constructive criticism, this should never
have gone public, its a big shame (good intentions is not an excuse
My wife is an actuary, and she like almost all actuaries she knows are shocked by this program and very upset that people are participating rather than purchasing basic term life. There is numerous problems with this program including the lack of real underwriting, lack of any real transparency and oversight, lack of any financial soundness assessment, and much more. Folks are asking for trouble here.
This organization needs to get a frum actuary to run a full analysis and then present it publicly. They also need to have an enforceable legal structure where it isnt just a “board” who decides who get what instead of the flimsy benefit structure there is now. Also, they need to have a very public list of administration and staff so people know who they are giving their money to.
Until this is done, people are asking for serious trouble.
I don’t understand rabbi Horowitz how he takes his numbers that they won’t have money to pay $100000 for each yosem this is not N investmet to get money back this is only if unfortch
This is not a investment to get back money it’s only if Ch”I sombody needs it they ask money from the members thanks god I have a life insurance also some other investmen and I am a member I also had my married children becomeing members
“this is not a investment”
Rabbi Horowitz gives good advice in his article. and that is for anyone interested in insuring that people buy life insurance and not be in a situation where it is possible that they may leave almonois r”l with a burden on the community to support etc. this is the direction that they should go.
That is: make a campaign to encourage people to purchase term life which is much cheaper than whole life and covers you for your working years at least. Then raise funds and help people pay the premiums for term life.
Whats the different between the 3 Areivim programs thats out there??
Is this a Ponzi game all over again .
There is a very informative letter from an actuary in this weeks “Readers Write” section of the Yated. In it, the writer explains in great detail (with mathematical equations to support his hypothesis) why Arevim structures are not, in any way, viable. Definitely worth the read…
Anyone who wants to see why Rabbi Horowitz is advising all of you to drop areivim can go to his website where its all spelled out nice and clear. For starters they wouldn’t answer his basic questions . For ex
They won’t say who their posek is
They won’t name any of the “hundreds” of Rabbis who supposedly not only endorse the program but are “investing time, energy and heart in this project, one which has become a priority to them.”
They won’t provide a full list of board members, and 3 of the 16 people who were named contacted Rabbi Horowitz after their names were linked to the organization to deny any involvement.(In other words, they lied)
hey won’t name the people who run the office.
They won’t name the actuaries, lawyers and accountants who allegedly signed of on the program
They sidestepped questions about payments, fees and commissions.
They wouldn’t explain how investment or disbursement decisions will be made
They wouldn’t explain how grievances are addressed, or what is done if someone feels they’ve been mistreated
I have more on my blog dovbear.blogspot.com (I’m running out of characters here)
I’ve met with Kol Yisrael Areyvim on numerous occasions and while the heads of the organization are very well mannered people, many questions I posed were left either unanswered or answered in a very round about way. There was no transparancy as to who was responsible in the organization as well as where the “money” is held and how it was distributed. Additionally, their presentation was more focused on getting more people into a group and obtaining there credit card information, which in my mind was a red flag. While the people who i met with were polite, respectful and wanted to help yesomim I did not see it being a fit in promoting there work to the Klal.
In know way am i agreeing or disagreeing with RH I just want clarification
Why is pyramid or the classic chain letter a scheme.
The answer is that in chain letter you give me the first $5 for no LOGICAL reason, since I am not obligated to return you anything.
Looking at another angle: Why do I have to give $5 to your chain letter, I can start one myself and you give me $5,
The same is with areivim the first people paying out have no commitment in recpricate, since any member can decide to drop out. Getting new members is equivalent to getting new succers to bail out the old ones.
Furthermore, as pointed out at any given moment the progaram is not self sufficient should there be ch”v greater needs than their optimistic model.
But my main point is again since in theory all members can stop paying without penalty and leave the program the members have noting in hand.
I am a proud Member of Areivim. I understood that this is not adequate insurance, but unfortunately, there are many people who don’t afford even minimal life insurance. For them, this program is mamesh hatzolas nefoshos. I feel that this is tzedakah money well spent. Does anyone have a better idea of how to save a drowning penniless family? Cooling people off from sharing in this mitzvah is arrogant and plain rishus.
Our biggest problem is when you have Gedolei Yisroel that are put in the forefront of an organization and know very little if anything about it.
1. Go to any godol and say you want to open a tzedokah fund, he will clearly give you brochos and say its great
2. go to any godol and say you are advocating learning 5 mishnas a day for every child, wow thats great. Who will say don’t learn
3. Go to a godol and say we should observe an extra 5 minutes shabbos every week before candle lighting l’tovas that kinderlich should have a refuah, who will say no.
4. I want to open a yeshiva for baal tshuva, Avadeh, sure mit asach mazal etc etc
I have been there and know that this is the situation. Therefore when someone says that these organizations are backed by gedolim, they mean less than nothing.
Instaed of writing maasis about Rav Horowitz, discuss facts how he is wrong. Do not speak around the issue. Hit it directly if you can
Rabbi Horowitz spent much time and investigated this thoroughly before he would put his name on paper advising other avenues for life insurance. He would never do this without thought and restraint. There are not too many Rabbis (He is really not a “Rav”) who speak out and are not afraid to buck the system. He is a good man and does a tremendous amount of good for Klal Yisrael.
Areivim, never told anyone to cancel their life insurance policy, or not to
buy one.
But I know several people that fell into hard times and were forced to
let their policies lapse.
So, don’t put your faith in the Life Insurance, I have a good friend who did
fabulously at being a broker, and he dropped it, because he felt it was a
Huge Ponzi scheme, and he didn’t want to victimize his brethern.
People struggle to pay the premiums, only to receive the death benefit
which so many years later is worth almost nothing.
Forty years ago, my husband bought a $25,000.00 life policy. At that time
it seemed like a fortune. We rationed our meager income to pay the
premium, now what was 25,000 worth 20-25 years later when we were
marrying children? B.H. we married our children, but Och un Vei
if we would have had to redeem the worthless policy!
We have to put our faith in Hashem, and Hashem surely gets Naches
Ruach from thousands of Yidden who in joint effort were able to help
the widows and orphans, in this great zchus, everybody should be zoche
to marry of their children and grandchildren gezunterheit ad biyas goal
tzedek.
what they havent mentioned is if a spouse passes and they have children over the age of 28 said child will not receive any money because they are condired adults. of course each case is looked at individually but thats the general rule. so when he does his numbers they are a little off. also not everyone gets 100k a like for parents who are members and they only have 2 children when a parent passes only the kids get money not the spouse so there another 100k not shelled out. also if someone from the group passes and they have a substantial amount of life insurance the payout is less. so again theres more money in the pot. personally speaking…. I do not have that extra money each month to buy life insurance so we joined areiivim, i know its no substitute but at least i know my kids will have something if c”v….
Thanks for giving this Worthy Organization such publicity, it was an eye opener
(I never heard about this organization before) I have since done my homework
and was overwhelmed with their wonderful work. B.H. I am zoche to not only
become a member, but I also donated a generous part of my Maaser money
to this worthy cause.
In the zechus of this great mitzva, may we all be zoche to Aruchas yomim
veshonim .
Once again, it has been proven that every great organization will have opponents
who will to dampen the spirit of those who with much mesiras nefesh try to
accomplish.
Doson Veavirom also doubted the credibility of Moshe Rabeinu!
come on. how many people writing and trashing rabbi horowitz here WORK for areivim???
sorry to say, but its pashut to me that something stinks there.. its plain and simple – show us your board members, your exec. directors and managers – why the hiding and double talk ?? come clean or cloee up this operation..
People who don’t want to contribute, find that accusing the organizations of
being distrustful, a good way out.
If you don’t want to contribute, don’t….you don’t have to excuse yourself,
Why must you be a Chote Umachtee?.
can anyone verify if people think this is instead of life insurance??? i think its safe to say most people look at this as an efficient tzedaka org.
Do any of the people running Areivim have an MBA? CFA? CPA? Any credentials at all?
I’m not an actuary. Nonetheless, I was able to take the numbers provided by the program, the mortality rates published by the CDC and run the numbers to see if the program works.
The way the program is set up, it can accommodate 48 orphans per year. That’s based on the fact that the 16,500 members are charged a maximum of $288 a year. However, when I ran the numbers against the mortality rates, I found that there is almost no way a group can have less than 48 orphans.
I ran three scenarios and in the best of them there were 96 orphans — twice as many as the program could accommodate.
You’re free to check out my blog post (http://wolfishmusings.blogspot.com/2010/05/areivim-my-opinion-on-matter-and-some.html) about it where I describe my methodology and the assumptions I made regarding the population of the group. In the post is a link to a spreadsheet where you can see how I ran the numbers.
If you think my methodology is flawed in a way that will significantly alter the numbers, let me know and I’ll run them again.
Aside from the fact that the numbers don’t work, I also had numerous other concerns regarding how payouts are to be handled and who is eligible.
The Wolf
In its best light, the program masquerades as life insurance to efficiently collect tzedaka for yesomim and almonos by credit card debits. People don’t expect a subjective determination of their “needs” after the death of a parent by a shadowy board. Being straight forward.and removing the insurance mask would help this group a great deal.
Raboisai, I read all the comments until I reached about the 50th one. Eech hub shoin nisht kan koach!!!. With stupid people, that for some reason cannot respond or comment on the issues that were brought up, there is no sense in even “reading” you comment, forget about me responding to them.
One point I wanna make, look at all the comments, on all the blogs, and see how many agree with the rabbi and how many disagree. You will see the the “mee’ut” that disagree, are out voted, by far!!!
You know what Rabbi Horowitz and all Sonei Yisroel, we should not ask a Shailoh from anybody because nobody is perfect, No Shul is perfect No Husband No wife is perfect and No Business or Investment is perfect
im glad this is coming to the public
i am a member of kol yisrael areivim
but now is the time for the community leaders to see how they can improve things
not bash and critisize ,nothing is perfect
even the best insurance companies can go broke, nothing is secure
lets improve nobel orgonizations
I live in a part of the world where there have been many Ponzi schemes, and the earliest ones were actually run by people who are much like the Arevim chevra – they were not out to cheat anyone but really thought their business model of paying earlier participants with money from later ones was a valid one that could go on forever.
Yes, some people have (LA) gotten payouts. But Rav Horowitz is warning us that according to his careful research, the system is one set up by well meaning people with no business understanding and no viable model. Therefore at some point the system will collapse and leave disaster in its wake. He does so in a menschlich way and is not profiting himself from any alternative to Arevim.
What is the problem here? No one is laying out any money until Chas Vesholem someone passes away. And then it is a minimal amount.
DO you not send tzeduka to organizations that you NEVER know where the money goes, i.e. administrative fees, administrative SALARIES, fancy offices, OVERZEALOUS and OVERDONE Advertisements that plague your mailboxes???
I think this is a great idea.
I just worry if Kol Yisroel can get 16,000 members together>>
And also where Kol Yisroel’s expenses are getting paid from>>>
Bu to badmouth a great idea like this I never heard anybody do on this farnem. Especially by a reputable Rabbi Horowitz..
Can he please also be fair and check out ALLLLLL tzeduka entities that send letters out DAY IN DAY OUT.
Some are government funded , make huge fund raising affairs (again with the most extravagent advertisements) bombard our mailboxes and voicemails with hulabaloo and i really wonder how much money is left for the intended recipients……….
The only people who will get harmed by this are the people who are running this scam. Rabbi Horowitz asked them clear questions. They gave unclear answers. The people running this scam have every reason to keep the facts, supporters and haskamos quiet – Its because they don’t exist. I for one am sick of being told that behind the scenes there are askonin and rabonim – Why are the behind the scenes. Because they don’t exist.