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Jerusalem - Rav Elyashiv Slams Rabbis Who Sign on To Edict Saying Pens Should Be Taken Away From Them

Published on: December 9, 2010 03:30 PM
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Rav ElyashivJerusalem - Two municipal chief rabbis decided on Thursday to remove their signatures from a religious ruling forbidding Israeli Jews from renting homes to gentiles.

Dozens of Israel’s municipal chief rabbis had signed on to the letter, which came just months after the chief rabbi of Safed initiated a call urging Jews to refrain from renting or selling apartments to non-Jews.

Rabbi Simcha HaCohen Kook and Rabbi Yaakov Edelstein said they decided to remove their names from the letter because they did not agree with its content.

However, their decision is probably related to a statement made by leading rabbi of Israel’s non-Hasidic Orthodox sector, Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, who denounced earlier on Thursday the religious ruling.

“I’ve said for some time that there are rabbis who must have their pens taken away from them,” Elyashiv remarked.

“It’s interesting that these same Zionist rabbis support symbolically selling their land to gentiles during the shmita year,” he added referring to the seven-year cycle when agricultural fields in Israel must lie fallow.

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Read Comments (22)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Dec 09, 2010 at 03:45 PM joey Says:

Ohh so Sharf. love the shmitta punch.

2

 Dec 09, 2010 at 04:06 PM Askupeh Says:

He knows the Fufteh Chelek Shulchen Orich Oich.

3

 Dec 09, 2010 at 04:08 PM FredE Says:

I guess you could say the reverse too: How come during the non-shmittah years its okay for Charedim to sell to goyim, but davka not during the shmittah year? Maybe its better to give business to our friends in Gaza....?

But i have to agree with the ikar thought. There are many rabbis who should have their pens taken away. In all camps.

4

 Dec 09, 2010 at 04:28 PM Anonymous Says:

The Rabbonim (big and small) in EY are becoming a joke...every day there is another broigas where Gadol A makes some naresh comment prompting Gadol B to disagree and/or disassociate himself from the comment. Even the second and third-tier rabbonim cannot seem to help themselves and seem to feel obligated to make at least some outrageous comment to keep their names in the media. Perhaps if they would limit their agendas to issues of real concern to their kehillahas we would all be better off.

5

 Dec 09, 2010 at 04:38 PM shtill Says:

Reply to #1  
joey Says:

Ohh so Sharf. love the shmitta punch.

Perhaps you can explain those rabbis! or maybe not....

6

 Dec 09, 2010 at 04:57 PM Lawyer Says:

"I guess you could say the reverse too: How come during the non-shmittah years its okay for Charedim to sell to goyim, but davka not during the shmittah year? Maybe its better to give business to our friends in Gaza....?"

You don't have a clue about what you are talking about. Chareidim don't sell anything to Arabs either during or not during Shemittah.

There are some Chareidim (notably those in Yerushalyim) who buy produce from non-Jews during Shemittah. THis is the view of the Edah Charedis. Those in Bnei Brak do not rely on this view. These Arabs do not have to be in Gaza -- there are plenty in the Galilee and even the West Bank who are happy to sell their produce to Jews.

There is a prohibition in the Torah called lo sechanem which specifically relates to selling LAND to non-Jews in Eretz Yisrael. It does not apply to produce -- only to Land.

It is for that very reason that the Chazon Ish opposed hetter mechirah -- he held that the sale itself was an issur deoraysah, and hence was invalid, since ein sheliach le dvar aveirah.

7

 Dec 09, 2010 at 04:58 PM Israel Says:

First of all, as I understand it, Rav Elyahshiv didn't say that it is Muttar to sell or rent land to a non-Jew. He basically said that the Halacha which forbids selling parts of Eretz Yisroel to Goyim should not be publicized. Secondly, to compare the sale of land to a non-Jew and a "Shmitta Sale" is inappropriate. The "Shmitta Sale" is only of the topsoil, in which the produce grows. Those same Rabbis who hold of the Heter Mechira are consistent in selling just the topsoil since selling all rights in the land would be prohibited.

Bottom line, this all would not be an issue if those Jews voluntarily remaining in the Galus would buy property in Eretz Yisroel. I am not saying that you have to live in it prior to the arrival of Moshiach. However, I do guarantee that you will not lose on your investment. Can you imagine the prices on property once Moshaich arrives!!! On the flip side, can you imagine how much the value of your homes in Boro Park, Flatbush and Monsey will go down when all the Jews started moving out.

8

 Dec 09, 2010 at 05:08 PM Thoughtful Says:

Am i dreaming? Wasn't the ban against renting specifically to ARABS?? If so why would H'aaretz distort that with their typical anti charedi agenda by saying that it was gainst all NON JEWS???

9

 Dec 09, 2010 at 05:11 PM enlightened-yid Says:

I'm confused. J.Post and JewishJournal reported that Rav Elyashiv was one of the rabbis who signed the edict to prohibit renting to goyim. So he is against it?

10

 Dec 09, 2010 at 06:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Why didn't they discuss this with the Gedolim before they took it upon themselves to once again circulate a letter for signatures that will leave them with egg all over their faces. That is why Rav Eliyashuv talks about taking away their pens. They are too quick to sign because another Rav signed and not because they really thought things through.

11

 Dec 09, 2010 at 06:19 PM yeedle Says:

Wow glad to see our sage harav eliashiv so bright and sharp at his age

His comments makes more sense then most of the comments on this tread that are just hog wash with no thought

12

 Dec 09, 2010 at 06:41 PM Anonymous Says:

when he wrote that you should help rav elior chen and famely did you have the same opinion?????????????????????/

13

 Dec 09, 2010 at 08:47 PM charliehall Says:

Reply to #6  
Lawyer Says:

"I guess you could say the reverse too: How come during the non-shmittah years its okay for Charedim to sell to goyim, but davka not during the shmittah year? Maybe its better to give business to our friends in Gaza....?"

You don't have a clue about what you are talking about. Chareidim don't sell anything to Arabs either during or not during Shemittah.

There are some Chareidim (notably those in Yerushalyim) who buy produce from non-Jews during Shemittah. THis is the view of the Edah Charedis. Those in Bnei Brak do not rely on this view. These Arabs do not have to be in Gaza -- there are plenty in the Galilee and even the West Bank who are happy to sell their produce to Jews.

There is a prohibition in the Torah called lo sechanem which specifically relates to selling LAND to non-Jews in Eretz Yisrael. It does not apply to produce -- only to Land.

It is for that very reason that the Chazon Ish opposed hetter mechirah -- he held that the sale itself was an issur deoraysah, and hence was invalid, since ein sheliach le dvar aveirah.

It is a machloket poskim whether land in Israel can be sold to non-Jews; many rabbis of at least equal stature to the Chazon Ish say that it is permissible. In any case, non-Jewish monotheists (Muslims and Druze certainly qualify) have a right under Torah law to settle permanently in Eretz Yisrael and Chazal praise those who wish to do so.

14

 Dec 09, 2010 at 08:50 PM Anonymous Says:

He is right!

17

 Dec 09, 2010 at 09:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

Why didn't they discuss this with the Gedolim before they took it upon themselves to once again circulate a letter for signatures that will leave them with egg all over their faces. That is why Rav Eliyashuv talks about taking away their pens. They are too quick to sign because another Rav signed and not because they really thought things through.

The signers of this letter were chasuve rabbonim who can think for themselves and do not need to "check with the Gedolim" before they sign a kol koreh type of letter. While I don't agree with their position on the rental of property to Arabs, its refreshing to see some rabbonim who can think independently without mindlessly following some "Gadol's" opinion.

18

 Dec 10, 2010 at 02:26 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
charliehall Says:

It is a machloket poskim whether land in Israel can be sold to non-Jews; many rabbis of at least equal stature to the Chazon Ish say that it is permissible. In any case, non-Jewish monotheists (Muslims and Druze certainly qualify) have a right under Torah law to settle permanently in Eretz Yisrael and Chazal praise those who wish to do so.

Druze, yes. They live as gerei toshav. But we know that the others behave as Amalek and must be regarded as such. When it becomes possible for a Jew to buy in an Arab village (not a bad idea for haredi expansion) then I will oppose the courageous rabbis who publicize the correct halacha.

19

 Dec 10, 2010 at 05:13 AM shlomozalman Says:

Reply to #6  
Lawyer Says:

"I guess you could say the reverse too: How come during the non-shmittah years its okay for Charedim to sell to goyim, but davka not during the shmittah year? Maybe its better to give business to our friends in Gaza....?"

You don't have a clue about what you are talking about. Chareidim don't sell anything to Arabs either during or not during Shemittah.

There are some Chareidim (notably those in Yerushalyim) who buy produce from non-Jews during Shemittah. THis is the view of the Edah Charedis. Those in Bnei Brak do not rely on this view. These Arabs do not have to be in Gaza -- there are plenty in the Galilee and even the West Bank who are happy to sell their produce to Jews.

There is a prohibition in the Torah called lo sechanem which specifically relates to selling LAND to non-Jews in Eretz Yisrael. It does not apply to produce -- only to Land.

It is for that very reason that the Chazon Ish opposed hetter mechirah -- he held that the sale itself was an issur deoraysah, and hence was invalid, since ein sheliach le dvar aveirah.

A well known and very popular tactic is for the Arabs to buy the produce from irreligious kibbutzim, grown without any heter mechirah, and pass it off as their own produce. This way the chareidim get to eat pure issur, undiluted by any possible halachic heter. Everyone is happy. The kibbutz found a buyer. The Arab middleman made a profit. The chareidi ate prohibited produce (le'chol hade'os) , but who cares? He screwed the religious zionists, the biggest mitzvah of all.

20

 Dec 10, 2010 at 05:15 AM shlomozalman Says:

Reply to #6  
Lawyer Says:

"I guess you could say the reverse too: How come during the non-shmittah years its okay for Charedim to sell to goyim, but davka not during the shmittah year? Maybe its better to give business to our friends in Gaza....?"

You don't have a clue about what you are talking about. Chareidim don't sell anything to Arabs either during or not during Shemittah.

There are some Chareidim (notably those in Yerushalyim) who buy produce from non-Jews during Shemittah. THis is the view of the Edah Charedis. Those in Bnei Brak do not rely on this view. These Arabs do not have to be in Gaza -- there are plenty in the Galilee and even the West Bank who are happy to sell their produce to Jews.

There is a prohibition in the Torah called lo sechanem which specifically relates to selling LAND to non-Jews in Eretz Yisrael. It does not apply to produce -- only to Land.

It is for that very reason that the Chazon Ish opposed hetter mechirah -- he held that the sale itself was an issur deoraysah, and hence was invalid, since ein sheliach le dvar aveirah.

I agree with Rav Elyashiv here.
However, ironically, it is Rav Elyashiv's rabbinic puppets who need to have their pens taken away. Every other day there's a kol kore with a forged signature of Rav Elyashiv.

21

 Dec 10, 2010 at 08:58 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
Israel Says:

First of all, as I understand it, Rav Elyahshiv didn't say that it is Muttar to sell or rent land to a non-Jew. He basically said that the Halacha which forbids selling parts of Eretz Yisroel to Goyim should not be publicized. Secondly, to compare the sale of land to a non-Jew and a "Shmitta Sale" is inappropriate. The "Shmitta Sale" is only of the topsoil, in which the produce grows. Those same Rabbis who hold of the Heter Mechira are consistent in selling just the topsoil since selling all rights in the land would be prohibited.

Bottom line, this all would not be an issue if those Jews voluntarily remaining in the Galus would buy property in Eretz Yisroel. I am not saying that you have to live in it prior to the arrival of Moshiach. However, I do guarantee that you will not lose on your investment. Can you imagine the prices on property once Moshaich arrives!!! On the flip side, can you imagine how much the value of your homes in Boro Park, Flatbush and Monsey will go down when all the Jews started moving out.

I guess you know/understand something Rav Elyahshiv שליט"א doesn't know or understand.

22

 Dec 10, 2010 at 10:37 AM Kevin Says:

Reply to #3  
FredE Says:

I guess you could say the reverse too: How come during the non-shmittah years its okay for Charedim to sell to goyim, but davka not during the shmittah year? Maybe its better to give business to our friends in Gaza....?

But i have to agree with the ikar thought. There are many rabbis who should have their pens taken away. In all camps.

One is not allowed to sell shmitah produce.

23

 Dec 14, 2010 at 06:35 PM TzViBenRoshel Says:

Where is his proof? The Rabbis who signed agains't selling land to gentiles state the Rambam, Shulhan Aruch and other Torah sources. Where is the proof of the opposition?

24

 Jan 16, 2011 at 09:12 PM Anti-Zionist Says:

Rabbi Isaac ha-Levi Herzog, the first Chief Rabbi of Israel, wrote that "no rabbi with a brain in his head and with a modicum of common sense" would discriminate non-Jews. He specifically paskened, based on the opinions of Meiri and his own novel reasoning, that non-Jews must have full rights to buy land in Eretz Isroel, to build their houses of worship, to be elected for any public or political position etc.

However, there is no need for any "proof of the opposition", because the entire Zionist entity exists in diametrical opposition to Judaism. What various Torah sources meant is that a Jewish inhabitant of the Mamluk or Ottoman Palestine should refrain from selling his house to non-Jews, in order to keep the local Jewish community intact.

It's an entirely different picture that didn't cause real discrimination and didn't anger the Muslims. And many other Rabbis, including the Meiri, believed otherwise and didn't see any problem of selling land or houses to non-Jews, especially to the monotheistic Muslims.

So, the authors of that letter have no brain in their heads and no modicum of common sense. It's not my words. It's a quotation from Rabbi Herzog - a famous goen and poysek.

25

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