Brooklyn, NY – UPDATE: Clarification On Rabbi Krohn’s ‘Seder’ Shiur

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    Brooklyn, NY – Update: As mentioned earlier on VIN News, in a shiur yesterday (VIN Removed the earlier post) on Inyanei Pesach at the Agudah of Avenue L, well known lecturer Rabbi Paysach Krohn stated that the focus of the Seder should be one’s own children and that ensuring that the Seder runs smoothly for the children is a higher priority than inviting guests for the Seder.

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    In an exclusive interview with VIN News, Rabbi Krohn stressed that in no way did he mean to suggest that guests should not be invited for the Sedarim. In fact, in last night’s shiur he quoted the Rambam that speaks of the importance of including the unfortunate, such as almonos and yesomim to the Seder. However, if any guests would disrupt or disturb the Sedarim for the children, they should not be included as recounting the story of Yetzias Mitzrayim with one’s children is the prime focus of the Seder.

    “Kol Dichfin Yesey V’yeichol is an imperative,” said Rabbi Krohn. “But not at the expense of one’s children.”

    Rabbi Krohn emphasized the importance of ensuring that the seder should be a time to bond with your children. Additionally, Rabbi Krohn suggested that if having by having guests at the sedarim, your daughters will be bothered by the idea that they will be unable to sing timeless family niggunim, then they should not be invited.

    Rabbi Krohn also brought out the importance of starting the sedarim on time and making sure that everything be prepared in advance so that the entire night can be enjoyable for the entire family.


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    30 Comments
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    Thoughtful
    Thoughtful
    12 years ago

    He’s 1000% right. And to all those who criticized him (either those who didn’t take the 10 seconds to realize and see what he meant or those that did but coudn’t resist pretending that they didn’t) you owe him a sincere apology.

    musthavegum
    musthavegum
    12 years ago

    what diffrence does it make if its the sedurim or a reguler shabbes if the whole family is ok with guest it does not matter if its pasach ,if the family is not ok with geust he should not invite guest even shabbes

    come-on-r-u-serious
    come-on-r-u-serious
    12 years ago

    THANK YOU VIN!!!!!! The original post was unfair to Rabbi Krohn. All of us who were there last night were crystal clear on what Rabbi Krohn said. First he spoke about the importance of having guests and stressed that very much. Then he went on to the next point of staying focused on the Mitzva of the night of Vehegadita Levincha and how guests cannot be at the expense of ones children.

    Bottom line is that this 15 minute clip should be expanded to include the entire Drasha it is one of his best!!!!! What a shame that we cannot see the whole thing.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    12 years ago

    I’m not sure his “clarification” makes much more sense than the original statement. Why would we invite guests for any seudas mitzvah if those guests are likely to be disruptive, whether on shabbos or any other yomtov. What is the chiddush he is telling us:not to invite guests who will be loud, boisterous, intoxicated or insulting to our mishapacha? If someone is OK to invite for shabbos dinner, they are ok for the sedorim. If not, we shouldn’t have them in our homes at ANY time.

    MonseyMom2
    MonseyMom2
    12 years ago

    I have to say I understand and agree 100%. We recently did someone a favor and took a guest shortly before shabbos. A single older man. Well, we told him the only bed we have is in our kids’ playroom. No problem, he said. But when he got here, he said we have to lock the door because he has medicines and he doesn’t want the kids to get into it. So our kids were locked out of their playroom on a winter shabbos. He decided on shabbos he can’t eat at the Rabbi after all, because it’s too far too walk (never mind I hadn’t cooked for him). He hogged everyone’s attention the whole shabbos, requested specific things like some cut up garlic in middle of the seuda. All in all, it was a trying experience. Now that we are finally making a seder of our own, I don’t want my kids to have to go through that at the seder. We invited a single BT who we know, and yes, the girls can’t sing, but they are happy to have him join us. We love having over guests, but as for the people who are attention hoggers, I hope there’s another place for them until they learn acceptable social skills, because at this time, my children needs their parents.

    shvigger
    shvigger
    12 years ago

    Nothing should be at the expense of one’s children, expense as in a spiritual and emotional well-being trade off. Vehigadetah levincha is a deoraisa Pesach night, and guest must also realize that and sit on the sidelines.

    nyfunnyman
    nyfunnyman
    12 years ago

    i’ll give him a pass. R Krohn is a pretty vanilla guy, and he’s a mensch who really doesn’t get involved in controversial matters. let’s not make something out of nothing here.

    12 years ago

    I have a question regarding this. Let’s say a family has a few daughters. The eldest, B”H, gets married. Can the other daughters still sing in the presence of the new son-in-law?

    HaMaven
    HaMaven
    12 years ago

    Thank you VIN for the clarification and its vital lesson!

    12 years ago

    I personally heard Harav Wolfson was asked one Friday evening whether to invite home for the seuda a person who remained in shul,
    Harav Wolfson answered “your responsibility is to your wife and children. Having the guest will not allow you to give your family their full attention. Go home to them and have a gut shabbos”.

    12 years ago

    It is commendable and a beautiful thing for people to invite others to a seder. But that is when it comes from the heart on your own. But not when its a marketing propaganda.

    12 years ago

    Eating a Seder and saying “kol Dichfin” and not inviting guests or baal tshvas is like drinking only 3 kosos at the seder

    come-on-r-u-serious
    come-on-r-u-serious
    12 years ago

    #8 &#8 211; no they can&#8 217;t.

    I think Rabbi Krohn&#8 217;s point here was only that each of us should make our seder as memorable and enjoyable as we can for ALL of our children. If none are married and the girls want to sing then don&#8 217;t have guests. If the girls don&#8 217;t like or want to sing then have guests. If there is a son in law the girls won&#8 217;t sing. If there isn&#8 217;t and they want to they will. Don&#8 217;t focus on the singing. Focus on his point that the Seder night is a Deoraisa for you to give over to your children the Mesorah of Yahadus. Kvel in it, enjoy it, live it, embrace it, deal with it, prepare for it, cherish it and most of all make it memorable. However you need to do that for your kids is all Rabbi krohn is saying &#8 211; just make it a memory for life. Just focus on your kids!!!!!!!!!

    this is not rocket science here that needs Iyun into every word. All it is is a plea to make your Seder memorable and some practical suggestions on how to do that.

    williguy
    williguy
    12 years ago

    so let’s have it straight why does the torah say by avrhum that’s its rather to have guest then be mekabel punim hashem ?

    Liepa
    Liepa
    12 years ago

    What would Pesach be without guests?

    12 years ago

    Guests are the type of people Rabbi Krohn says to have by your table. Real guests not the ones you fool yourself and tell your kids are guests. It’s people who disrupt or disturb, hog everyone’s attention, request specific things and not having acceptable social skills it’s those kinds of people who you shouldn’t fool yourself into thinking these kinds of people are guests. THEY ARE NOT GUESTS. Guests are okay to invite though.

    pinnypinny
    pinnypinny
    12 years ago

    All Rabbi Krohn is saying is that one should be machmir in the mitzvah of V’heegad’ta l’vincha even if it requires one to be maikel in the mitzvah of Hachnosas orchim.

    AyeletHashachar
    AyeletHashachar
    12 years ago

    Thank you for this kinder post and clarification, Rabbi Krhon.

    However, as to your point of “daughters not being able to sing”, does it not say: “Kol Kevuda Bat Melech Pnima”?

    Yes, it is wonderful for girls to be able to sing with their family. But is it not all the more wonderful for girls to observe the beautiful mitzva of Hachnasot Orchim and learn to emulate this, thus enabling their inner radiance to shine more?

    Did not Avraham Avinu, the father of all Judaism, the chosen one, the light unto all our generations, go out of his way to serve guests even at the expense of his own comfort?

    For is it not understood that Avrahom Avinu was just after a painful Brit Milah in his aging years, when he went out to greet the guests?

    For his tents had four openinings so that guests might enter from every direction and at all times!

    And it is not mentioned (as far as I know) that he thought to put his own personal comfort or that of his children before that of his guests.

    However, I much commend your effort to clarify and soften your previous message – may you be blessed always to use this beautiful middah of learning from those you teach – and to go – me’chayil el chayil.

    MosheZuchmere
    MosheZuchmere
    12 years ago

    I personally host near 60 people on the first night and the second night I leave exclusively for my own family.

    sane
    sane
    12 years ago

    It’s important to bond with your family at other times too. No?

    lovejerusalem
    lovejerusalem
    12 years ago

    Having guest at your seder IS the best Chinuch you can give to your children. Teaches them what Yiddishkeit is all about!! The Lubavitcher Rebbe taught that there is a fifth son who doesn’t even know there is a seder!! It is our job to go out and bring him in, it’s not enough to have the four sons!!!