New York – Agudath Israel Clarifies Its Stand On Reporting Suspicions Of Child Abuse To Police

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    New York – Agudath Israel of America has received several inquiries in the wake of misleading claims that have recently been made about our stance on reporting suspected child abusers to law enforcement authorities. We take the opportunity to clarify our position.

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    As Torah Jews we live our live our lives in accordance with halacha. The question of whether and under what circumstances one is halachically permitted or required to report to the authorities suspicions of child abuse (including sexual molestation) has attracted the attention of a number of our generation’s most prominent rabbinic authorities. Many of their responsa have been collected in the respected Torah journal Yeshurun, Volumes 15 and 22.

    As elaborated at a recent Halacha Conference sponsored by Agudath Israel of America, these responsa make clear that when certain standards have been met it is not only permitted but in fact obligatory to report suspicions of abuse or molestation. The general principles that emerge from these responsa are as follows:

    1. Where there is “raglayim la’davar” (roughly, reason to believe) that a child has been abused or molested, the matter should be reported to the authorities. In such situations, considerations of “tikun ha’olam” (the halachic authority to take steps necessary to “repair the world”), as well as other halachic concepts, override all other considerations.

    2. This halachic obligation to report where there is raglayim la’davar is not dependent upon any secular legal mandate to report. Thus, it is not limited to a designated class of “mandated reporters,” as is the law in many states (including New York); it is binding upon anyone and everyone. In this respect, the halachic mandate to report is more stringent than secular law.

    3. However, where the circumstances of the case do not rise to the threshold level of raglayim la’davar, the matter should not be reported to the authorities. In the words of Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, perhaps the most widely respected senior halachic authority in the world today, “I see no basis to permit” reporting “where there is no raglayim la’davar, but rather only ‘eizeh dimyon’ (roughly, some mere conjecture); if we were to permit it, not only would that not result in ‘tikun ha’olam’, it could lead to ‘heres haolam’ (destruction of the world).” [Yeshurun, Volume 7, page 641.]

    4. Thus, the question of whether the threshold standard of raglayim la’davar has been met so as to justify (indeed, to require) reporting is critical for halachic purposes. (The secular law also typically establishes a threshold for mandated reporters; in New York, it is “reasonable cause to suspect.”) The issue is obviously fact sensitive and must be determined on a case-by-case basis.

    5. There may be times when an individual may feel that a report or evidence he has seen rises to the level of raglayim la’davar; and times when he may feel otherwise. Because the question of reporting has serious implications for all parties, and raises sensitive halachic issues, the individual should not rely exclusively on his own judgment to determine the presence or absence of raglayim la’davar. Rather, he should present the facts of the case to a rabbi who is expert in halacha and who also has experience in the area of abuse and molestation – someone who is fully sensitive both to the gravity of the halachic considerations and the urgent need to protect children. (In addition, as Rabbi Yehuda Silman states in one of his responsa [Yeshurun, Volume 15, page 589], “of course it is assumed that the rabbi will seek the advice of professionals in the field as may be necessary.”) It is not necessary to convene a formal bais din (rabbinic tribunal) for this purpose, and the matter should be resolved as expeditiously as possible to minimize any chance of the suspect continuing his abusive conduct while the matter is being considered.


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    85 Comments
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    12 years ago

    Duh!!! Why would anyone report abuse without Raglayim Ledavar?! You all know that sexual abuse reported is never a made up story.

    12 years ago

    a very wordy way of saying, “you must ask a rabbi first before reporting.”
    this released statement by agudah has no raglayim ladavar.

    Sherree
    Sherree
    12 years ago

    Mazal Tov!

    shredready
    shredready
    12 years ago

    the only problem is that Agudath cannot state even one case when asked point blank, after hearing the evidence have they said to a parent go to the police so in all the years Agudath has existed it seems they never encountered as case that meets raglayim la’davar

    who are they trying to fool

    LoveHashem
    LoveHashem
    12 years ago

    Baruch Hashem now that they clarified their position ben will not be able to keep up the maligning of agudas yisroel as being “pro-molester” instead of pro-victim. this statement is timely and appropriate so the whole frum community’s on the same page about the need to report to the authorities.

    12 years ago

    We live in a community where the gay lifestyle is so frowned upon that some loonies will even say a child is murdered as heavenly retribution for not protesting the gay lifestyle enough.

    Who in their right mind would then want to say they were a victim of/participated in male on male sexual activity, if it weren’t true????

    Takes alot of courage for a kid, but it seems the only time Agudah wants to actively address this problem is when they can sell magazines by passively writing about the taboo subject.

    OyGevald
    OyGevald
    12 years ago

    So now all that’s left to do is, have an official sign or poster to be hung in the front office of every school that decalres that in this school we don’t condone that behavior and not reporting known staff personnell will be teated equivantly as would be the perpetrator, meaning those who know but don’t tell will also be fired.
    Because without that, it’s just talk and no action!

    Darek
    Darek
    12 years ago

    I’m confused….. I think they are too

    LakewoodNJMom
    LakewoodNJMom
    12 years ago

    Contrary to the popular misconception frequently reported in the blogs, Jewish law is more strict than secular law in requiring the mandatory reporting of abuse by everyone (not just health care professionals, teachers, mental health professionals, etc.) to the authorities, as stated here, “This halachic obligation to report where there is raglayim la’davar is not dependent upon any secular legal mandate to report. Thus, it is not limited to a designated class of “mandated reporters,” as is the law in many states (including New York); it is binding upon anyone and everyone. In this respect, the halachic mandate to report is more stringent than secular law. I’m glad that the Agudah has finally clarified their position.

    Sherree
    Sherree
    12 years ago

    It is high time that the Agudah came around to the thoughts and statements that other Rabbonim were brave enough to make and stand by for quite a few years now. It is unfortunate that it was THIS statement which is what the Jewish Community at large needed in order to follow simple logic and halacha to protect themselves. It is the way halacha is interpreted that either aids or prevents one to do the right thing and do what is necessary in any scenario. One either has the green light to go ahead or one finds their hands tied depending who they ask and how they interpret. Many Rabbonim I have spoken too over the years who are as involved with kids as I am have told me plain and simple that when it came to this issue their hands were tied since the Agudah did NOT agree to go to the authorities. Others have said that although they respect the Agudah and are basically Agudahniks if a family came to them with this issue they would tell them to go to the authorities.

    Just yesterday, I was discussing with my colleagues that because of Rabbi Zweibel’s instructions to Jewish Mental Health Professionals to NOT report to the authorities even though they are Mandated reporters and risk l

    oy_vey
    oy_vey
    12 years ago

    Sick. Telling people to break the law and possibly lose their license! Shame on you.

    Joe-Shmoe
    Joe-Shmoe
    12 years ago

    My rav says, you could go to rav belsky he’s not afraid to give a heter to go to court. He’s not going to cover up if he considers it mutar to report. or you can go to any beis din you consider not afraid to be matir reporting.

    concernedmom1
    concernedmom1
    12 years ago

    I wonder if flashing is falls under that category. And I wonder what gedolei yisroel shomrim goes by, because there was an incident of two young girls being flashed in front of an elementary school where the perpetrator was caught on tape. The perpetrator was a “frum” man. Shomrim saw the video footage and said they know who it is that did it and said there was nothing they could do. There reason was that this man is a nebach and it will embarras the family. I was dumbfounded. So does flashing young girls fall under the category of raglayim ledavar? Who knows how many kids hes done this to, and when he may or may not do something worse.

    Sherree
    Sherree
    12 years ago

    continued:
    Just yesterday, I was discussing with my colleagues that because of Rabbi Zweibel’s instructions to Jewish Mental Health Professionals to NOT report to the authorities even though they are Mandated reporters and risk losing their licensees and parnasah, we have no choice but to send families in need to non-frum and non-jewish therapists so that they would get the appropriate help without a conflict of interest.

    B”H, the Agudah finally turned around and came to their senses after this terrible tragedy with Leiby Kletzky. It is a terrible shame that Leiby had to be a kaparah to make this happen and be the wake up call that they needed, but maybe Hashem saw no other way but to send them a very strong message. Who knows? All I have to say is better late than never. B”H, they finally made the statement ALL advocates for children and abuse victims have been waiting to hear. May we all work together to heal the pain of ALL victims of child abuse and victims of ALL forms of abuse.

    Anon Ibid Opcit
    Anon Ibid Opcit
    12 years ago

    This is a welcome change. Agudath Israel has always held the line by protecting molesters and rapists from justice. They’ve always recommended going to rabbis instead of the police. The rabbis and Beis Din have always covered it up until the last week or so.

    This is a long-needed development. Congratulations to A.I. for doing the right thing. It is a shame it took the sacrifice of a little boy to make them wake up.

    12 years ago

    I am a parent of an abused child and we have had rabbonim Literately spiting in our faces by giving chizuk to the guy we reported to him for abuse, this Rov turned our family in total turmoil even worse then the abuser himself, we as a family are very confused as why and how Rabbonim can be so insensitive to us, its a disgrace to the Torah and more so their worth as Rabbonim/Leaders

    LoveHashem
    LoveHashem
    12 years ago

    Ben what can you say now. you see molesters behind every corner like an obsession. now you cant blame agudas yisrael any more. they clarifiedthier position, an important contribution to help yidden know when to report, when to ask rav.

    12 years ago

    Maybe, just maybe if one person had called the NYPD about the butcher aron, little Leiby might still be alive.

    DRSLZ
    DRSLZ
    12 years ago

    Kudos to AlA for its statement.

    Will rabbis seek training in how to recognize child abuse and neglect? There are tell-tale symptoms and signs strongly suggestive of abuse.

    Also, a delay in reporting a case of suspected abuse can result in loss of crucial evidence. As a rule, the sooner there is an evaluation by trained experts in detecting abuse, the better. Will rabbis be trained to recognize the need for a quick decision?

    Yaakov2
    Yaakov2
    12 years ago

    I’t’s a bold face lie to make blanket statement that the criteria of “raglayim ledavar” is never clear as to it’s criteria.

    They are being deliberately vague and ambiguous to enable people, to find an EXCUSE why not to report it to Police, as it is a well established fact the can’t point to even ONE case where Aguda chose to report it to Police. If they can’t point to even 1 case it means they NEVER ever reported anything to police.

    Now how does that sound?

    How on earth can anyone even imagine, even in their wildest dreams that they could even possibly be serious if no once in their lifetime can this organization point to cases they referred to Police? i.e they judge all cases and “non-raglayim ledavar”.

    The EASY FIX, to not let them get away with being deliberately so ambiguous, is to ask them POINT PLANT “what if questions”.

    For example to ask them:

    “What if a child comes and say that his teacher touched him on private parts of his body”

    That’s easy enough of a question.
    – does that constitute Raglayim Ledavar? YES or NO.

    If Aguda can’t answer a strait and simple “yes” then they have said nothing at all so far to change the past “sweeping under the rug” problem.

    emes01
    emes01
    12 years ago

    The Agudah is dancing around the issue. If my child said he was molested and I was satisfied it was true I would report it immediately as that is the Raglayim Ledavar. Children don’t make up these stories. There is no requirement to have a Rabbi determine Raglayim Ledavar. With what we know today, reporting it to a Rabbi is more likely to get the incident stuck in an endless circle than to resolve the situation.

    RavShmuel
    RavShmuel
    12 years ago

    Rav Moshe Sternbuch of the Eida Chareidis, and a Talmid of the Chazon Ish zatzal, has always been at the forefront of reporting. Last week the Bais Din in Crown Heights ruled that there is no prohibition of of Mesirah when dealing with a child molester.
    Many Jewish educators, therapists and parents are faced with the difficult challenge of doing the right thing to save a molested boy or girl and reporting it to the authorities, even though it takes great courage to risk losing your job and social standing in the community. But remember that ultimately, each one of us will stand before Hakadosh Baruch Hu Who before Whom there is only truth. Let us make sure that we will be able to say in the Presence of the Eternal, “Yadeinu lo shafcha es hadam hazeh” – when I knew that this boy or girl was being molested, I did all in my power to save him/her, even though I endangered my career, shiduchim, and faced community pressure to do nothing. Your reward will be for all time.

    12 years ago

    i personally know a middle aged man who endured months of agony due to false complaints of molestation ,i challenge anyone to inform us how many perjury cases where brought to trial in nyc in the past 12 months ?, so what downside does an accuser of molestation have by filing a false complaint and causing immense pain to the accused ? 0

    12 years ago

    Reply to #75 & #76 .

    Read Rav Elyashiv’s tshuvah. It sets a criterion of raglayim ledovor. Others spell that out as well. No one tells us what that means. It’s the grey area the oft quoted possum say, not fabricated by Agudah. Their statement is to verify that this has been met. It inconveniences me, but that’s too bad. Which poskim bypass that criterion? How can one be sure that they have raglayim ledovor? Agudah suggests. Do you have a better idea? Reporting anything that walks does not follow Rav Elyashiv. Why do you need to see this as political or underhanded?

    Yaakov2
    Yaakov2
    12 years ago

    Agudas letter says the following:
    “raglayim la’davar” (roughly, reason to believe)

    It’s as simple as that and no further explanation is needed because the rest is up to each ones interpretation as he understands it.

    Rav Eliyashuv is a very bright person, if he thought you needed to as a rav each time he would have said so and if he didn’t say so it’s because Rav Eliyashuv specifically hold the Opposite of the Aguda position that one must specifically NOT GO TO THE RAV, rather to use your own head to interpret it as you see it.

    Rav Eliyashuv, Tshuva using the language “raglayim la’davar” (roughly, reason to believe) is intended to be non-precise specifically because he WANT A NON PRECISE DEFINITION because he wants it to be applied by each person using his G-d given intelligence and common interpretation as he sees fit.

    As Chazal say “Dibra Torah Beloshon Beney Adam”.

    IF Rav Eliyashav held that an exact definition was needed he would have told us the exact definition. He left it “OPEN ENDED” precisely BECAUSE Rav Eliyashuv WANTS and EXPECTS each individual to come up with his own common sees determination if he feels a given case is “reason to believe” that it is real Molestation

    Yaakov2
    Yaakov2
    12 years ago

    Rav Eliyashuv would certainly not want to cause anyone to make a mistake as in “Lifney Iver Loy Siten Michshol”.

    To know “pshat” in what Rav Eliyashuv meant, you can derive it form what rav Eliyashuv specifically made sure NOT TO SAY.

    We know for sure that whatever Rav Eliyashuv made sure not to say – that is for sure what he hold NOT TO DO.

    Rav Eliyashuv makes sure not to say what Aguda says to ask a rav – so Rav Eliyashuv for sure hold the opposite of the Aguda Position and Aguda is for sure going AGAINST DAAS TORAH of Rav Eliyashuv.

    What else does Rav Eliyashuv make sure to specifically NOT SAY?

    Rav Eliyashuv specifically makes sure not to spell out what he meant by Raglayim Ledavar and he certainly would not want anyone to sin by coming to the wrong interpretation.

    It’s obvious that the General Criteria (without being specific) is not an “unfortunate oversight” by Rav Eliyashuv but he wrote it in an open ended way specifically in order to give each and every one the freedom to interpret it as he sees fit and whichever way he sees fit THAT IS OK.

    “Ein Ledayan Ela Ma Sheinav Roos” in Molestation reporting, each one of us is the Dayan to decide what is “reason to believe”.