Israel – Rabbis Approach IDF Chief over Female Singing Conflict

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    Israel – Chief rabbis Yona Metzger and Shlomo Amar met with IDF Chief of Staff Benny Gantz Sunday and asked him to allow religious soldiers to excuse themselves from military events where women are singing.

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    Last week, four Officers’ Course cadets were decommissioned after leaving a function where women were singing. Gantz told the rabbis he plans to discuss the matter with Chief Army Rabbi Brigadier-General Rafi Peretz.


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    43 Comments
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    12 years ago

    The IDF should try to avoid these situations wherever possible and even allow soldiers to not attend certain events where women might women sing. However, bottom line is that this is an army and the needs for unit cohesion and military discipline must take priority over the preferences of some chareidi soldiers not to hear women sing. What will they do in battle if some women break out in song to rally the troops or sing Hatikvah or somthing like that. No normal person will have lewd thoughts from hearing a woman sing under combat circumstances or even when the troops are deployed along the border to protect EY against terrorists.

    SherryTheNoahide
    SherryTheNoahide
    12 years ago

    Ok, everyone can go ahead & throw virtual tomatoes at the Noahide for saying this but… I have to ask:

    Exactly what is it that women are going to have to do, in order to keep men from “lusting” after us… even when in uniform, serving their country?!

    Is the Arab niqab next? (lol)

    It’s one thing to try to keep things modest… but it seems to me, in this particular situation, she *was* dressed modestly, and was performing for her country!

    She didn’t dance around, or do anything provocative…. so what’s the deal??

    The woman can die for her country.., but can’t sing on stage at a military event?

    No offense, but maybe it’s time the men worry about controlling themselves! Period!

    And why should it always be OUR fault (the women), if they can’t?!

    12 years ago

    Amen to that…

    Misses
    Misses
    12 years ago

    I think the one of the reason s so few charidem go to the military is because of cases like this. If they dont respect their religion then its the militarys fault. These charidies are not ready to give up their religion.

    DRE53
    DRE53
    12 years ago

    What a joke.
    These rabbis are akin to someone trying to slaughter a pig according to halacha, thinking that it’ll somehow become kosher.
    The IDF isn’t a place for a frum yid to be, period. If a female will sing or not is irrelevant and makes no difference.

    12 years ago

    Sherry
    First women should do everything they can to keep men from lusting after them.
    Our torah does not require women to wear Arab Niqab.
    The issue is not whether she was dressed modestly the issue is that a man according to the Torah is not allowed to hear a women sing. In this incident the men did not stop the women from singing they just walked out to refrain violating the Torah.
    A woman is allowed according to the Torah to perform sing etc. in the army or elsewhere in front of a female audience.
    And yes you are right it was always the time men should control themselves.
    However if a women causes a man to lust she should share the blame.

    liverpool
    liverpool
    12 years ago

    Sherry,

    There is this thing called “Halacha”, and it’s pretty unambiguous when it comes to females singing live in front of male crowd. Whatever conjectures you may come up with don’t really hold water in this context. Especially given that your logic can be applied to do away with pretty much anything having to do with anything. Naked women singing – no problem, just close your eyes and control your dirty mind . Etc etc…

    12 years ago

    For those nutcases who say no frum yidden should not serve in the army and defend EY against its enemies, who would you rely upon to protect the borders and go after the terrorists. (Sorry, but the Ebeshter has other things on his plate and needs the help of his yidden to protect themselves). Your mindless rant about frum yidden sitting in beis medrash saying tehillim while their enemies prepare to slaughter them may have been part of your family’s mesorah from pre-War Europe, but for most of us, never again.

    Darth_Zeidah
    Darth_Zeidah
    12 years ago

    ” four Officers’ Course cadets were decommissioned”

    I don’t think I have ever seen Ynet mangle the English language so badly and in such a misleading manner.

    The four cadets (whose commitment to their religious principles I can only commend) were not “decommissioned” – that epithet applies to a ship that is about to be scrapped.

    What *did* happen was that they were dismissed from their officers’ training course and sent back to their units to continue their military service as enlisted men.

    Incidentally, it is by no means uncommon for officer candidates to be dismissed from their training courses for all sorts of reasons, some of which might be considered as trivial.

    The IDF is entitled to expect only the very best men and women to serve as its officers – but (IMHO) the pretext used in the case of the four charedi officer cadets was doubtful at the very least.

    12 years ago

    One principal aim in founding of the IDF was to create a uniform public that followed orders. The people who were instumental in this were products of central/eastern europe of the early 20th century. They had grown up with fascist and communist models in front of them and this was their aim for their new state. Every Israeli was to become a fighting machine, and follow orders till the death. Much of that mindset has remained. Just recall the recent ranting of the CiC Gabi Ashkenazi about enlisting haredim – as if he needs them! By any standards they would destroy it, but he has to get his claws into them just to prove that no one is outside the Israeli model. Now look at this ridiculous situation: it was not military function as such whatsoever – as evidenced by the fact that a few girls wer asked to sing – but woe betide anyone who dares to abstain. To follow one’s conscience or own mind goes directly against the purpose of the IDF. At least one positive result will emerge: thier most fanatical recruits, the dati-leumi, will now think twice before enlisting, or going for officer status. With the IDF comprising 25% Ukrainians, it has become a farce rather than a fighting force.

    12 years ago

    I agree with all of the commentators, regarding the prohibition of a man hearing a woman sing. However, there are certain situations whereby it is almost impossible to prevent such an occurrence. For example, there are frum Yidden who go to sporting events. It is almost impossible to know in advance, who will be singing the Star Spangled Banner, whether a man or a woman, or both of them, or a choir consisting of men and women. In a crowded stadium, one cannot just run out of his seat. Also, I remember being on a Southwest Airlines flight, when the flight attendant started singing. Again, what is one supposed to do in such a circumstance?

    Member
    12 years ago

    How to win a war against the IDF:
    Play some Cindi Lauper or Pat Benataur when you go to invade. This will make the troops run in all directions. Good luck.

    Member
    12 years ago

    Torah says no where that it is an abomination for a male to hear a woman sing. It is not agaist Torah law for a man to listen to say Heart or Pat Benatar.