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Beit Shemesh, Israel - Judge Declares Two Men in Contempt of Court for Refusing to Stand

Published on: May 14, 2007 12:29 PM
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Beit Shemesh, Israel - A Magistrate’s judge declared two haredi men in contempt of court after they refused to stand during their arraignment.

The men, who are facing charges of assaulting police officers creating a disturbance and making threats, told the judge that “they only respect the laws of the Torah” and refused his repeated request to stand facing the court, Jerusalem police spokesman Shmuel Ben-Ruby said.
One of the two suspects would not stand at all, while the other turned his back on the judge.

After being declared in contempt of court, the two men were remanded in custody for four days.  [J-Post]



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1

 May 15, 2007 at 11:50 AM Anonymous Says:

according to the ramban, dina d'malchusa dina does not apply to any government in Eretz Yisrael, whether "jewish" or not, except for the true Jewish malchus which will only be restored with Moshiach

2

 May 15, 2007 at 11:45 AM Chaim Says:

Satmar and Lubavitch are both anti-zionists (at least all the Lubavitcher Rebbes until the last. I'm not sure if the last changed Lubavitch's position or not.)

I didn't notice the Rav Soloveitchik you mentioned was "JB". Most of the famous Soloveitchik's were the Brisker Rov's (who also were all stringently opposed to zionism.) I'm not to well versed on who Rav JB S. was or stood for (other than I know he was somewhat sympathetic to zionism but wasn't pro-zionist.)

In any event, almost everybody believes their Rov is a Gadol. Who are we to compare and rank? It isn't our duty or ability to do so. (Some Gedolim are obvious to all or some that they are a Gadol, while others may be a Gadol albeit less well known.)

Almost any semi-reasonable position you take in the Torah you'll be able to find some Rov who supported it.

Did you ever hear the joke about the new Torah software program? The way it works is you put in your shaila, then you put in the answer you want, and the software tells you which Rov paskened that way!

3

 May 15, 2007 at 10:41 AM Litmus Test Says:

Anonymous said...
Litmus - Of course! The only thing I find shocking is that you could even ask that question, as if it is a question.

Chaim

May 15, 2007 9:54 AM

Then you have to agree that both sides of the debate (with the exception of the NK freaks) have a gadol on whom to rely.

4

 May 15, 2007 at 09:54 AM Anonymous Says:

Litmus - Of course! The only thing I find shocking is that you could even ask that question, as if it is a question.

Chaim

5

 May 15, 2007 at 09:49 AM Anonymous Says:

Anyone who has witnessed the zionist ''police'' on horseback storming into a crowd and beating them with heir batoons, fully understands how they are Nazi S.S.

6

 May 15, 2007 at 09:10 AM The Litmus Test Says:

Chaim said...
YOUR GEDOLIM LETZZZ? Get a life. Don't try to segregate and Balkanize Jews. A Gadol is a Gadol. Respect them all.

Punk.

May 15, 2007 12:37 AM

So you agree that the Lubavitcher Rebbe a"H, the Satmar Ruv a"h and Rav JB Soloveitchik a"h were all gedolim?

7

 May 15, 2007 at 09:08 AM Disgusted Says:

When all else fails, call your opponent a Nazi Storm Trooper.

How come I never heard anyone who ever saw Nazi Storm Troopers refer to anyone else as a Nazi Storm Trooper?

Your little charade of frumkeit has already kept you from serving in the army. Now you can drop the routine. The army doesn't want you anyway.

So stop insulting the children who were tossed around for bayonet practice by the real Nazi Storm Troopers by calling you political opponents Nazi Storm Troopers.

8

 May 15, 2007 at 09:00 AM Zionists are in charge for now - Deal with it Says:

Do any of you poor dopes have anything else in your lives than bash the zionists? You sound like a bunch of old geezers in the back woods of Georgia sitting around a broken moonshine still talking about the south rising again.

Like it or not they are here and they are in control (and, much to thier distaste, supporting more limud hatorah than anyone else has in history).

You guys lost this battle. Get over it. Time to get off the toilet and do something constructive with your lives.

No one who sits and whines about zionists all day ever accomplished anything or gbuilt anything.

In fact, you'll all end up like Reverand Fat Al and his ilk who can never get anywhere in life but can always run thier mouths for hours on end about it being someone else's fault.

NK should and Moshe Hirsh ymsh should stop blaming the zionists for thier failure to accomplish anything in thier own lives.

9

 May 15, 2007 at 12:37 AM Chaim Says:

YOUR GEDOLIM LETZZZ? Get a life. Don't try to segregate and Balkanize Jews. A Gadol is a Gadol. Respect them all.

Punk.

10

 May 14, 2007 at 09:52 PM Joseph Says:

LETZZZ - Re-read your own post. You clearly accused them of striking someone. Whether the judge or someone else, they were never convicted of striking ANYONE. And last I checked my chumush, as well as the laws of any civilized society, you are innocent until proven otherwise.

The same Daas Torah that implores us to keep away from the zionist institutions, advises us to not recognize these same institutions. Showing the so-called justice system of the zionist regime mentchlichkeit would be a de facto form of recognition. These heroes were right in NOT showing the zionist hooligans mentchlichkeit.

And finally, you once again blatantly assume they are guilty of striking someone or of some crime. They were NEVER CONVICTED of anything. Ever heard of the concept INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY? Its not just a secular concept; it is a TORAH concept as well.

Do not assume that because some zionist Nazi Storm Trooper hauled an innocent man into their corrupt courts, likely after beating the innocent man in the Streets of Jerusalem or Beis Shemesh, that there is even an iota of guilt on that victim of zionism.

11

 May 14, 2007 at 09:23 PM Anonymous Says:

Anon 7:47 If they do, they will get what they deserve. Vehamayvin Yavin

12

 May 14, 2007 at 09:20 PM LETZZZ Says:

Joseph said...
"LETZZZ - Get your facts in order. They didn't strike the Judge, or anyone else"

JOSEPH YOU ARE SO BLINDED, YOU CANNOT EVEN READ.

A. WHERE IN MY POST DID YOU SEE THAT I SAID THE JUDGE WAS HIT?

B. NOT ONLY DIDN'T YOU READ MY POST WELL, BUT THE ORIGINAL STORY SAID, "The men, who are facing charges of assaulting police officers"! IF WE MISUNDERSTOOD THAT, PLEASE EXPLAIN IT TO THOSE OF US WHOSE READING COMPREHENSION IS NOT AS GOOD AS YOURS.

C. LET US ASSUME THAT IN THE 54 MINUTES BETWEEN OUR POSTS, YOU ACTUALLY DID OPEN A SEFER (sic),
YOU ONCE AGAIN MISREAD MY COMMENT.
I NEVER INTIMATED THAT THEY WERE GUILTY OF ANYTHING OTHER THAN A COLLOSAL LACK OF MENSHLICHKEIT.

D. LASTLY; GRANTED, SOME OF THOSE WHO COMPRISE DAAS TORAH SAY WE SHOULD (and I quote you) "stay away from the zionists institutions", THESE TWO MENUVALIM DEFIED THAT DAAS TORAH BY PUTTING THEMSELVES IN THOSE VERY INSTITUTIONS BY THEIR OWN ACTIONS.

BUT I GUESS I CAN'T EXPECT YOU TO UNDERSTAND DAAS TORAH IF YOU CAN'T EVEN FOLLOW MY SIMPLE POST.

AT LEAST YOU'RE CONSISTANT!!

13

 May 14, 2007 at 08:37 PM Joseph Says:

LETZZZ - Get your facts in order. They didn't strike the Judge, or anyone else. At least they have never been convicted of any such thing. Last I checked, in the Torah and in every civilized society you are innocent until proven otherwise.

All they did was one of them refused to stand up for the zionist so-called "judge", while the second one faced his back to the zionist so-called "judge."

And yes, Daas Torah has unequivocally stated that we should stay away from the zionists institutions, including their so-called judicial system. Perhaps you don't like that, which would explain your dismissing them as "YOUR GEDOLIM" (not mine.)

14

 May 14, 2007 at 07:47 PM Anonymous Says:

To Anon 12:52 who said,

"but i think better they should move to darfour. let thme put their backs to the uncoming guerillas and murderes there...."

I have a better idea.
Send them to RIKERS, I guarantee they won't turn their backs on anyone!

15

 May 14, 2007 at 07:43 PM LETZZZ Says:

FORGET ABOUT DINA D'MALCHUSA
FORGET ABOUT NO GOVT TILL MOSHIACH
FORGET ABOUT DINIM(MITZ.BNEI NOACH)
FORGET ABOUT CHILUL HASHEM

WHAT ABOUT 'MENCHLICHKEIT'?
***********************************
THET TOLD THE JUDGE THAT THEY
'ONLY RESPECT THE LAWS OF THE TORAH'.

WHERE IS THE HETER TO STRIKE ANOTHER HUMAN BEING? (WHO IS CREATED B'TZELEM ELOKIM EVEN IF YOU THINK HE TURNED HIS BACK ON THE TORAH)
***********************************
JOSEPH SAID: Dina D'Malchusa does NOT apply to the zionist entity, as ruled upon by many of our Gedolim.

I SHUDDER TO EVEN MENTION THESE NAMES IN RELATION TO SUCH TRASH, BUT FEW GEDOLIM WERE MORE FIERCELY ANTI-TZIONI THAN THE CHAZON ISH AND R' Y. C. SONNENFELD AND YOU CAN BE SURE THEY WOULD NEVER HAVE ACTED LIKE THIS.
***********************************
JOSEPH SAID: as ruled upon by many of our Gedolim.

YOUR GEDOLIM; MAYBE.
DAAS TORAH; NO WAY.

I'D LOVE TO HEAR YOUR TRANSLATION OF 'DRACHEHO DARCHEI NOAM'!
***********************************
SOOOOO MUCH TZAAR IN KLAL YISROEL THIS WEEK, AND WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK FAR FOR REASONS! THANK YOU JOSEPH.

16

 May 14, 2007 at 06:37 PM Anonymous Says:

--The concept of Dina Dmalchusa Dina does NOT apply to the zionist entity, as ruled upon by many of our Gedolim.--

This has nothing to do with halacha or dina dmalchusa. This relates to one issue - stupidity.

17

 May 14, 2007 at 06:02 PM Joseph Says:

Anon5:25 - They listened to their Rabbonim, and did what they have with their approval.

Anon5:14 - You just DID reply; except you had nothing substantive to reply with, so you just blabbled. My original point still stands.

18

 May 14, 2007 at 05:27 PM Anonymous Says:

I believe that if I was in their position I would consult with my Rabbi and I hope I would have the courage to do as my Rabbi advised. I have to assume they did the same (Dan Lcav Zechus). Therefore I can only say Kol Hakavod that they are listening to their Rabbi How can anyone criticize?
Do you listen (or ask) to anyone other then your own gut feeling? What is worse, listening to your Rabbi with a controversial opinion or picking and choosing when and who to listen to?

19

 May 14, 2007 at 05:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Poor Joseph . I pity you, your just as nutty as those two nutcases in Israel . your comments are not worth of a reply. Its just that I feel so sorry for you and your likes, that I had to wish you a Refueh Shelaimoh

20

 May 14, 2007 at 04:00 PM Joseph Says:

These fine young men made a Kiddush Hashem. The zionists can break our backs but cannot take away our Kedusha.

The concept of Dina Dmalchusa Dina does NOT apply to the zionist entity, as ruled upon by many of our Gedolim.

They should be commended for standing up (or rather in this case "sitting down") to these corrupt and arrogant zionist "judges" and their so-called "court-system".

21

 May 14, 2007 at 03:41 PM Anonymous Says:

3:13 go back to the middle ages. I take it there is no Chilul Hashem either until moshiach comes. If there is no land either let them move to Chia or some other place where they can be free to practice your brand of Torah Judisisim.

22

 May 14, 2007 at 03:25 PM Anti-Sodom Says:

Hey idiots, "Din" is one of the Sheva Mitzves bnai Noach.

23

 May 14, 2007 at 03:22 PM Anonymous Says:

This would NEVER happen in the United States, we have too much respect for the law here.

24

 May 14, 2007 at 03:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Torah teaches Jews got no land until meshiach's here! therefore their not considered a malchus. judges, why of course there's a beit din. seems they were in court for protesting for Torah's sake. throwing what to whom? you to the dogs?

25

 May 14, 2007 at 02:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Does the Torah not teach us to appoint judges? Is there not a halacha of " Dina d'malchusa"? I wonder why these people were in court? Were they talking during davening? I think not. Throw the book, I mean torah at them.

26

 May 14, 2007 at 02:01 PM Anonymous Says:

this is sooo funny.

27

 May 14, 2007 at 01:42 PM Anonymous Says:

whats this got to do with torah

28

 May 14, 2007 at 01:30 PM Anonymous Says:

what exactly's the problem?? don't these authorities turn their backs on the torah?????

29

 May 14, 2007 at 12:52 PM Anonymous Says:

12:38 well said.
but i think better they should move to darfour. let thme put their backs to the uncoming guerillas and murderes there....

30

 May 14, 2007 at 12:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Idiots. If I were the judge I would give them 6 months jail time just on the contempt charge to teach them a lesson. They don't respect the authority - let them move to Sudan - there is no authority there.

31

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