New York – A revolutionary new initiative that would have Hatzalah of Borough Park and Williamsburg adding a women’s division to assist with labor, delivery and other emergency women’s situations is currently underway, according to an announcement made by B’Derech founder and attorney Ruchy Freier on NY Assemblyman Dov Hikind’s radio program last night.
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The division, called Ezras Nashim, is modeled after a similar program in New Square that has been operating successfully for the past three years. Ezras Nashim, which already has between two hundred and two hundred and fifty women EMTs and doulas enrolled, was formed after close consultation with numerous rabbonim to protect the tzniyus of women in labor, many of whom are uncomfortable having a man in their community delivering their baby.
“Women who have had a baby delivered by Hatzalah are grateful to them, but they are also embarrassed and humiliated by the experience,” said Mrs. Freier. “If they meet that EMT or Hatzala member, they will likely cross the street to avoid him. We are all so proud of Hatzalah. We can’t live without them. But the voice of the women now has to be heard.”
Freier pointed out that Hatzalah was originally founded in the late 1970’s with both male and female members in order to protect the tzniyus of women, but when concern arose about possible mixed situations between Hatzalah members, the decision was made to keep Hatzalah a men’s only organization.
While Ezras Nashim would be a division of Hatzalah, the two entitiess would be kept entirely separate. EMT training courses are forming now for women who would like to train to become part of Ezras Nashim.
Assemblyman Hikind expressed support for the concept, calling it “almost a no brainer.”
“We all have unbelievable admiration for Hatzala,” said Hikind. “We have a beautiful community here. We go to the nth degree for modesty, in this situation, it just makes sense.”
Heshy Jacobs, a member of Hatzalah’s executive board, told VIN News that adding women to Hatzalah is an idea that has been discussed numerous times and each time, the rabbonim who advise the volunteer ambulance corps have ruled against the change. Jacobs stressed that tzniyus is of the utmost importance to Hatzalah but expressed concern that the introduction of a women’s division to Hatzalah is a move that, while well intentioned, could be life threatening.
“There are many things at which women are superior, but when it comes to speed and physical strength, which are both of the essence in a medical emergency, it is a proven fact that men have an advantage,” Jacobs told VIN News. “Additionally we already have systems in place to get our responders in place as quickly as possible. Borough Park has cars out on the street all night who can respond within seconds. Flatbush has ambulances that are manned around the clock. We have this down to a science and can respond immediately to any situation. By introducing women into the scenario, you are adding another layer to the process and you are talking about a situation where a delay of seconds can literally cost lives. You don’t fix something that isn’t broken.”
Jacobs invited Mrs. Freier to discuss her proposition with Hatzalah’s Beis Din, a group of prominent rabbonim who have been advising Hatzalah for over twenty years and understand both the issues of tzniyus and the well oiled machine that is Hatzalah and said that if they approved of the idea he would be happy to implement it.
“I am not opposed to women,” explained Jacobs. “I am opposed to anything that can cause potentially life threatening delays.”
Voice your opinion in the comments section, but please do so respectfully.
Brilliant name! Thanks for the illustrative photo, it makes the whole thing much more clear.
Great idea
EMT class Forming now a class in Boro Park and in Williamsburg for women look out for the ads, Williamsburg will be daytime and Boro Park in the evenings
Dear Mr. Jacobs: I am happy to see that you are receptive to having women join. However, if your only “concern is saving lives”, Please stop taking patients to Maimonides and take them to a hospital where patients can be treated professionally and get the best care.
Hatzolah should insist that Maimonides improve their Emergency Room, Have better trained Radiologists and the general care should be better. The quality of care is inferior.
Long overdue, tznisdik women do not enjoy having men handling their bodies.
On the one hand, these women feel awkward to be treated by men, but most of them go to MALE Obstetricians and Gynecologists. The Schwartz team and the Rebarber team etc etc 15 Male physicians with two females. The teritz and excuse is that they are not heimisha from down the block. OK. So they feel more comfortable with a gentile or non frum individual , Nu, Nu.
Jacobs raises great points I haven’t thought about. Think of a blizzard situation; either they won’t be able to respond or the “men’s division” will need to lend a shoulder, which would defeat the purpose.
While i understand Mr Jacobs concern, i actually researched it and in as mentioned in the article New Square has it already for 3 years which was implemented by the Skvere Rabbi and they are very succesfull with the program and by the way they dont even have Woman driving there and its working out as best possible and i have family there which they say people are very happy, and since that’s the case and its not a situation where it should Chas V’shulem cost lives this should actually be a no brainer if this can be implemented all over, and on those things chzall teach us that the more the better.
Thanks to who ever is working on it to bring it active and i guess credit will also have to be given to who ever started it SKVERER RABBI and i Heard that Satmarer Rabbi from KJ also wants to implement it.
I happen to agree with mr. Jacobs 100% that men are a bit faster when it comes to driving and those sort but it wouldn’t be a bad idea to have woman just for delivering babies and not for other types of emergency that just my thought.
Monsey has had it for years and it has worked out realy great. The members are older frum labor coaches that try to keep a low profile and a calm atmosfire during delivery so not to scare the mother.
My mother was on Hatzolah in Washington Heights about 28 years ago.
The clientele at the MALE chiropractors in Boro Park and Bensonhurst are WOMEN. Its nice to say that the tseniyosdike women don’t want men to touch them, Makes alot of sense. But then answer to the question of the male obstetricians and the chiropractors.
Imagine 3:30am calls comes in Code 1, full trama, active delivery in progress…….
the appointed Female meber is in bed and needs to jump out of bed and be out of the house in seconds of course, and meanwhile the Male members are not responding they are leaving the call for the ezras nushim….
Don’t start saying that a member from EN will be up all night because these calls dont happen everynight and its a waste of time.
they should team up with the Doula program that is on-going in Maimonides Hospital every day of the week 24/7 (almost). Those Doulas do a great job and are all VOLUNTEERS
I think this should be a pilot program only and see how it works.
I believe in williamsburg woman will call Hatzalah and ask woman members for even a minor trauma. I believe it will go a little out of hand in the W
A womens’ division is a great idea and a long time in coming. As far as women responding slower to emergencies, Mr. Jacobs you are wrong. I know many women, myself included, who can be up dressed and ready to respond faster than any man. The strength issue might be of a concern but that will only harm a patient if the long time”Mens’ club” does not help out when a patient is too heavy for a women’s crew to move. As we (EMTs) all know most stretchers have wheels and a good EMT is taught how to lift and carry a patient.
As far as advantages that a woman might have over a man; 1)a woman would not think that the EXPOSE part of the exam is fun. Something I learned by teaching a Hatzolah class to men. 2) Women can also do more than one thing at a time without giving it a second thought, that is why Hashem made us mothers. 3) Women can more easily enter places where only women are allowed like MIkvahs, and treat other women with less embarrassement.
So Mr. Jacobs. it is time for you and the rest of your backwards thinking club to stop dragging your knuckles on the ground and not only come out in strong support for this, but encourage your followers to do the same.
As a member that assisted in 4 deliveries,1 of them a neighbor across the street, none of the women cross the street when they see me. Even though it’s uncomfortable the first few minutes, but if you do it with the PT modesty as a priority you can turn an uncomfortable situation into a comfortable experience.
My suggestion, that only older (white hair or beards) members should respond to these situations, as was the feedback of my PT.
If ladies only go on calls related to births etc. that would make it pretty obvious for neighbors and onlookers what’s going on. That could cause uncomfortable situations as well, as when men go on call it could be for any other reason.
It would be nice if the men do bring in a woman when it is a ob/gyn case if time allows. I use a frum ob/gyn in Monsey, but would still would not feel comfortable if someone I know responds to an ob/gyn emergency. However, at the same time, patient care should never be compromised and if a man is there and it is an emergency, he should definitely treat. Kol Hakovod to all of Hatzolo, men & women and may we only use you on simchas.
“But the voice of the women now has to be heard.”
Won’t the men all walk out?
Interesting.
The poskim say, that when it comes to chillul shabos it should be done by MEN who are versed in halacha, and NOT by women or minors. Lest people underestimate the value of pikuach Nefesh.
Are you kidding me these guys are rescuing men women and children everyday and now 30 yrs later its a problem to touch women wow what has this religion become
Hatzoloh admits it is working in New Square.
If it works there, it can work anywhere!
They don’t respond directly to calls. They don’t drive to calls. They are picked up by a Hatzoloh member that takes them to the scene.
What the Jacobs’ won’t like is, that when the women get in the back with the patient, no men are allowed to ride in the back.
To all those with this brilliant idea,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Great thinking!!! But just to let you know this will NEVER work out ,when you have such a call 3oclock in the morning it will take for a female member aprox 10 min to get ready which at that time we are en rout with pt to hospital, The fact that new square has it,, well they have a few hundred families while boro park/flatbush/williamsburg Each bl’h have over 11,000 families.. Now to you rabbi jackobs as always in your article you left out the williamsburg hatzolah, Just for all of you to know they were the 1ST with this overnite program without those special suburbans just everyone in there own vehicle.
Does anyone know how many babies are delivered by Hatzalah? From what I understand such calls are not common occurances.
Only a man can say that a woman can not drive as quickly or as safely to the scene of a accident. Speaking as a long-time EMT and driver, you are wrong. I can out-drive any of you. By the way not all women take so long to get ready especially in an emergency situation. I can name a lot of situations where a man might take a little bit longer to stop what he is doing to get ready and respond.
Do you have in willy woman that drive? Are they going to run by foot? Will they call a taxi to run to the call? How is this going to work exactly?
Where do you sign up? Classes?
I think there should be women EMTs but only for baby deliveries. B”h there are enough volunteers who respond to all emergencies and women aren’t really needed, in general.
sorry, but for many years in the 70’s and 80’s many geidola rabbunim from Willie, BP and Flatbush Hisachdes and the Agudah heard both sides about women joining and they clearly stated that women should not join, even on the issue of child birth, breast feeding problems and hemorrhaging.
I was present on more then one occasion with the late Debreztiner, Hurav Moshe Bick, Hurav Yecheskel Roth, Udevorerer Ruv, The Siggeter and later the late Satmar Rabbi Moshe Teitelbaum when not only were women joining Hatzolah an issue, but for women to dispatch and for a goy to drive back on shabbos was a major issue.
The Debretziner, R’ Moshe Bick and Yechskel Roth went to the eastside to discuss this with R’ Moshe Fienstien and he didn’t want it, R’ Fienstien had no problem with the Jewish driver coming back with the ambulance either.
I might have some tapes of this.
not to go into details, the issue of Yichud and how the lady will looklike at 3 AM and who will drive her was the major concerns and still are.
Hatzolah should not change the way it was set by the founder Heshel Weber, those rabbunim who worked with him and are no longer with us, were just as smart and educated.
Oy. Most of you folks out there seem to have cave cave man ideas of men and women…like the Flintstones. Women can’t drive fast? Women can’t get out of the house fast? Really? The rest of the world has female EMT’s, female trauma surgeons, female pilots, etc. Maybe your wife who can’t move without her hair and outfit just so isn’t a candidate for being a Hatzalah EMT. But speak for yourself. There are plenty of other women out there.
Hatzalah of Washington Heights always had females as well. The real problem is that too many women use a Hatzalah as a cab to the hospital!
My daughter is an RN, this would be perfect for her!
I want to see one woman that’s able to leave her kids and family, withiut hesitating, during dinner time
And if the woman is old enough that her kids are old enough that she can leave them, chances are she’s too old to respond quickly and efficiently.
I am a woman who will not use a male doctor for OB-GYN unless it is an emergency. All of my doctors are women. Women who use male OB-GYNs are a little hypocritical. How can you expose that part of your body to a man? That said, I hope this works, I would be mortified if a male member of the local hatzolah would deliver me. Unfortunately for me all my labors were very long so no problem getting to the hospital.
It’s time. If it can work in skver it can work here in the 5 towns, where we have a few frum female OBs and GYN PAs as well as EMTs.
I’ve been a doula for close to thirty years. I go to the homes of my clients ,drive them to the hospital and stay with them until after they deliver. There has been many a time (day and night ) when I’ve had very little time to get my client to the hospital and I did just fine, shatiel and all. The way New Square has it set up seems to work . Women in the back and men doing the driving and back up. Why not give us a chance .
Let’s get into fact about other calls that Deliveries,
How about hemohaging or severe cuts on the body that a women would not want to expose when men are around, or how about emergancies that happen while women are not modest, was it ok till now that men responded to these calls YES Hatzolah has a vaad harabanim and they screen their members very carefully, they do have protocolls and rules and regulations when and how to go about treating pationts in these situations.
Hatzolah did NOT want to accept women into the orgenazation but due to pressure they have to consider it but there is very little chance for this to work out. But if it does they will probbalbly send existing members wifes for training so they could respond together to emergancie.
Instead of having the women on “standby” and having to drive themselves separately to each emergency call, why not have at least one woman stationed with the the regular Hatzalah volunteers and have the men drive her to the location where she is needed so no time is lost. We are talking about emergency services, so there is no issur about having a man drive the woman paramedic to the site where assistance is needed. Nothing lewd or indecent is going to take place in the front seat of an ambulance. Alternatively, the woman can ride in the back but that would be a truly mindless concession to some fanatics.
and what about the new surge of frum men into the nursing field? i’m in my OB-PEDS rotation in nursing school and there is a frum guy in my class. he’s married but next semester there will be a single frum guy taking OB. is this any less embarrassing than a male hatzalah member? i haven’t seen anyone saying its inappropriate. and trust me when i say these teachers are NOT editing and using loshon naki for these classes. they discuss it in great detail with all the correct terms. *I* blush and squirm during these classes. how much more so a single frum guy will during these classes
As a member I would recommend that all women should take a course in medical emergencies and stop calling hatzoloh for non emergency situations like cuts and scrapes and to find out if they need stitches.
Hatzoloh is for life and death situations only
Gee, I guess if I live long enough women in Hatzala might come to be. I’ve been asking this for years. As a volunteer in the mountains I have worked with and know many members.My daughter is a paramedic and works with Hatzala often. Be it men or women patients quite often they defer to her experience..I believe it is an eveirah to embarass someone. Would this not happen to a women patient if her male neighbor showed up where her tznius would be comprimised?
Slow driving, yes without the sirens and lights the guys can’t go fast in traffic either.
If a women takes the EMT course which is over 120+ hours of commitment do you not think she will be on the road in a minute for the call.Perhaps set hours can be set for the women to be available so they can respond immediately as they know they are on call.
As far as putting on a sheitel and checking the mirror, narishkeit!
Give it a chance. It can be worked out.The glass is half full not half empty.
Females are just as capable as men. I was taught that lesson very hard when a young female surgeon showed up at 2am to do emergency life saving brain surgery on my husband. She got herself together and up in the middle of the night, don’t EVER under estimate the strengths of a woman.
As a member in Hatzalah I can attest that 90% off the calls are not true emergencies meaning life or death situations and are mostly called in by women. Let them first take a class in basic parenting and basic cuts and scrapes they shouldn’t get hysterical with every shtus. Then they should consider training for real emergencies.
Hatzlacha Rabah
This is fantastic! I cant imagine why any man has any opposition to it. Do they prefer to be the ones to do it….? I beg to wonder why……If its our safety you truly care about, thank you very much, but we have confidence in our woman we still prefer them!
Being someone that knows Ruchie Freier, she only takes action when there is a real need. I understand that this will be big a humbling pill for the men to swallow but the fact is that this is truly what women prefer! The men will have to deal with their egos and frankly this is a test if their intentions are truly Lshem Shamayim. Because if it is, they should embrace it wholeheartedly!!!
Who even comes up with arguments clamming that women in Hatzolah would endanger lives, when women around the world have been EMTs, Paramedics, Flight Nurses, Fire Fighters and non of these fantasy problems arouse in the thousands of departments. They can treat patients and carry them just as well. I know a young lady who was an Army combat medic in Iraq, came back and is a nationally registered paramedic and has been recruited by several private hospital corps till FDNY snatched her to lead their system. She is one of the best medics in NY state. I’m sure female Hatzolah members can handle the challenge. It’s not rocket science.
Great idea BUT ONLY with the sanction of the rabonim!
Most of these problems can be avoided 99 percent of the time if women dont wait till the last second, a common accurance in the w and b
I have the fullest confidence in the dozens upon dozens of female professionals with whom I’ve worked over the years. Could this be a turf battle? Provided this will not delay urgent care in the least, it may be worth a try. However, any pause to await a female attendant could result in harm to the newborn in some cases. All the concerns in the world do not justify a single case of brain damage due to waiting for a female EMT or paramedic during an obstetric or gynecologic emergency.
As a RH hatzolah let me clarify some things regarding new square why it works over there and might work in kj but not really anywhere else, most woman in new square use refuah health center for thier ob needs the ob group that serves refuah is a group out of mt sinai the head doctor is dr. Grazi ( if I spelled his name correctly ) which btw he’s a frum hemishe yid from Flatbush because of this most code 4 calls out of new square (or full trauma as you call it in the city) travel all the way to the city to mt Sinai and then and ONLY then are the woman dispatched by a pager system, how it works is the RH dispatcher dials a pager number and the woman on call calls in and the dispatcher dispatches a unit to pick up, this is all fine and dandy if it is not a code 4 imminent cause if it is even in new square they just scoop and go don’t wait for nobody and would transfer to a local hospitals which have pretty good maternity wards, as far as training goes these woman are not emt’s the cfr’s, as far as my opinion regarding mrs friers idea all sides ofvthe issue were already brought out but as I point out even in new square it only worked out because of the reality on the ground and cannot be implemented everywhere.