New York – Last night on the popular Jewish radio talk-line communication with Zev Brenner, Sasha Chavkin reporter for NYWorld and Columbia Journalism School student Melissa Franchy who rode the B110 williamsburg-boro park bus & created the media frenzy about women having to be back of bus, appeared on the show, explaining their positions.
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Callers to the show defended the fact that no woman feels discriminated, but the practice is rather a self voluntarily segregation, where man and woman don’t sit together, and no woman is ever forced to go in the back of the bus. Among those who called in, where community activist Chaskel Bennett, and community activist attorney Ruchi Freir.
The entire show can be heard here.
Was a great show, great callers,
Chaskel Benit was the Best!!
Is there any way I can listen to that show, was it recorded ?
No one feels discriminated against? No one is forced to move? What about the reporters who were told repeatedly “this is our way. move to the back”???
Others outside the community have a right to take this bus and sit wherever they want. if a lady wants to sit next to a man or vice versa (one isn’t frum), let the other one stand up politely (give an excuse- my stop is soon, you and your kid can sit ect). Be polite and nice. two men who aren’t related should just sit next to each other instead of taking up every seat on the bus (forcing women to stand or sit next to a guy).
It seems to be a lack of education by the community that has gotten them into this issue. This is America where there is a seperation between church and state. They cannot and will not win this one. However, that said, the bus provides an excellent and reliable service. I have frequented the line hundreds of times and I know that it would take more than twice the time to reach ones destination utilizing another mode of public transport. I am certain that this can be worked out to the satisfaction of all. Jeopardizing the line or the reasonable fare would hurt the many people who use it.
I am listening to the on-line show. The majority of the callers were very ignorant.
Trying to analogize to the example of an Amish bus line not wishing to use electricity etc. First of all, the Amish keep their religious beliefs in the private sphere, but comply with all public laws in the business world. The lawyer was very eloguent and I hope that those in the community listen to her words that the community needs to understand the Constitution and the difference between public and private space. Yet, she still missed a few points. Just because she or other Hasidic women do not feel discriminated against, does not mean a non-Hasidic woman can be forced to abide by a religious custom on a public bus.
I am glad that she was always met with respect when explaining herself. However, no matter how respectfully you ask or request a non-Jew to move his or her seat, the non-Jew is NOT obligated to do so on any public bus.
So, people, what do you take away from this. If a non-Jew gets on this public bus, leave him or her alone and it will stop being an issue
Gotta say talk-line communication with Zev Brenner is a great show lol
The caller says that the Orthodox are “handicapped,” by their beliefs, wow. I never felt my relgiion “handicapped” me. The analogy is offensive to me as both a Jew and person with a disability. No person CHOOSES to be disabled, but a person chooses to adopt a particular religion or a particular interpretation of a practice or belief. I am ashamed by the ignorance of most of the callers. The lady lawyer made some very good poiints. This insulated community needs to understand basic Constitutional principles and how one must behave in a public space. Just because these particular women do not feel “oppressed” or “discriminated” by this practice, does not change the law or the public nature of the bus. Modesty, modesty, modesty, NOT everyone interprets modesty the same way Please get this through your heads. You are free to practice whatever religion you want. Saying that this is your way is your right. Making others live YOUR way is the problem.
A non-Jew is not bound by any of our practices or belliefs and certainly not in any public accomdation.
Have some seichel people. If a non-Jewish passeger gets on the bus, leave them alone.\
Idiots that you are…
Its time to educate yourselves…
How is it that most comments by heimisha online or on radio are pure stupidity or kindergarten level at best?
Answer: most of you are uneducated, meaning-most of your lives are filled with emptiness, an average teen in yeshiva spends 99 percent of his time, doing nothing (shmoozing at best)…a boy goes into yeshiva at 3 and comes out, a 20 year old ignoramous especially in chassidisha yeshives, its sad to elaborate deeper…
Education does not mean secular studies only, if only those commentators would be educated in “gemara” they would be able to draw lines between fact,fiction,analogy, etc.
And that is exectly what is always missing in their calls or comments…
Any collage grad knows how to have a meaningful discussion, why? Education! Any education even a secular one will first of all set u straight so that u can have an intelligent conversation…
And now to the point…
Nobody is forcing anything on us, and so is nobody forcing the bus company to accept funding from the state, however if the bus company does choose to do so, then it of course must comply with the laws of the country!
What’s there not to understand?!
I would suggest that if it so important for us to have bus lines separated, then let us stop the government funding and support the company from our own pockets, kedusha is certainly not less important then any other tzedaka…or maybe it is….
I didn’t listen to the show, because I hate listening to Zev slanting the show against chasidim, there is never an open and fair exchange . Was it the case with this interview as well?
Didn’t these people ever learn that you don’t do things that will irritate others. To me this not a religious issue. 2 people came in and determined that they were going to do things which would be a disturbance to the great majority on the bus. I think that perhaps they should be arrested for disturbing the peace.
All this poor Shasha was saying last night was:
Oh public umm ho Bus uh ho hu he yes.!
next comment he said:
um uh uh ho hu hu Private bus!
Final (and Most intelligent) comment:
Respect uh umm uhmh uh ouh uh ouh religion!
Melissa Was Really Great! Smart! and Right on! if she pays $2.50 then this is a public bus and all she is saying that no one should tell her where to sit! and She said approx 397 times that she respects the Religion I’M GALD SHE RESPECTS IT!
i only have Rachmunis on Cheskel Benneth And Ruchy Frier they were Right on the issue but they didn’t realize they were talking to 2 College graduates uh uh with absolutely no common sense oh uhn umn
BTW
The only people that can make this thing go away is the “Educated riders” that make things worse….
A few of you with the same brilliant message “if a non-Jew gets on the bus leave them alone”.
If a Jew gets on the bus …. more specifically a Jewish woman and she sits in front somewhere … I would suggest you leave her alone as well. A woman who wants to follow the self-imposed segregation will go to the back on her own and anyone who decides to sit up front does not intend to go to the back of the bus. So leave her alone as well.
I think the bus company should change their schedule every 15 minutes for Men and next 15 for Women…If should a women decide to ride the Mens bus there will be enough space for her to sit on her own….
YedelfromBP very well said , keep up your good work
This Reporters had no Business going on that Bus they don’t live in BP and not in Williamsburg ,the only reason they went on the Bus I to harm MR Marmorsteins Business ,He should sue them ,He only has clients when there is separate seating if not the whole route not worth for his clients !
Is this the person who with our Dov wants to change the Emergency Medical Helpers?
This is a double stander-ed the chasdim don’t want a bike lane they don’t want certain ads on the wily bridge they don’t own the city
I have said this before and will say this again:
To the men in Williamsburg. You should appreciate the Chashivus of your women. (which I’m sure most of you do). You should hold them to the highest regard.
First they are told not to drive cars, then you tell them to sit in back of the bus which at any given moment there are pregnant women amongst them and it mightn’t be easy for some to sit towards the back, and the fact that they are doing it voluntarily……..Wow just Wow. Hats off to these women. I hope your respect for them is at its highest.!!
He’d have business even if they were no separate seating… since people that are frum would not sit in the same seat as the other gender, and second of all, there is NO direct public transportation between bp and willy. to go by train, you need to go through Manhattan. To go by other city bus, you have a real long route through bed stuy.
Second of all, I think that the heimshe consumers need to be made aware that by law this bus has to follow the same guidelines and rules as public transportation, so while we choose to self-segregate, if ANYBODY sits down in the wrong section, you zip your lips. (sign needed)
I, for one, would rather take a car service to Williamsburg than the bus. The men take 3/4 of the seats, while women and kids are standing in the back. Even if there is place to sit, its crammed back there. Pregnant women included.
I, also experienced where women get up for men if there are not enough seats for them. Again, I think this was voluntarily, but I was astonished. If it were an elderly man – for sure. What makes this woman think that she needs to get up. It IS in fact the feeling of “feeling inferior”. (not saying all women do, but this one probably did).
can the chasidim start thier rule of women Sit In back on the City Buses going down 13 ave ? what wud happen if goyim have a Rule Jews & Blacks in back of the Bus ? there would be Riots in willy….
the story of Abraham traveling and then noticing his wife in the water makes no sense
how could that be, is the Torah saying that Abraham was traveling sitting next to his wife.
how could that be she and other woman should have been in the back of the caravan.
something is not making sense
Legally i can say whatever i want to anyone else on a bus. If i want to tell all men wearing button collar shirts to get to the back of the bus, i can. If i want to tell all chinese people to exit at 34th st, i can. If i want to tell all women to sit in the back, i can. Of course, no one has to listen to me. But there’s certainly no wrongdoing on the part of the bus company or anyone else if some passengers say things to other passengers.
If I ever, EVER visit Brooklyn again (my children and grandchildren live there) I will make sure to only drive my own car or a rental car! I used to actually prefer taking the bus or subway because parking is so inconvenient, but, no more getting on a stupid segregated bus.
This also applies to my next visit to Israel.
What a Lame duck session, the majority of callers are an embarrassment with their intelligent level so low I’m not sure how they have the guts to speak on the air. The take away from this story: we have not legal right to tell anyone on a bus to change seats for whatever reason, this reporter had every right to report on this story regardless of what has driven them to report on this specific story, We all are getting to comfortable in this strange land to a point where we start harassing people, protesting against anyone deemed a treat to our way of life, We’d better smarten up or we will face the ultimate consequentses
Lets get the facts straight.
The facts as were stated was that the bus company was not getting funds from the government but were paying quite a hefty franchise fee for being allowed to run this route.
It is NOT a PUBLIC bus it is a PRIVATE bus run by a PRIVATE bus company along the city roads.
It is NOT part of the MTA and that is why it does NOT accept metro cards and it is NOT governed by the MTA. However it must follow non-discrimination laws. That is why Mellissa was wrong in saying that if it is a Jewish bus and she is NOT jewish she would NOT be allowed on. It is a Jewish bus but since they can’t discriminate she IS allowed on.
This bus company created this route specifically for the convenience of Jews who needed the connection between the religious community of Boro Park and the religious community of Williamsburg. It was a route created for this specific religious community to meet the needs of this religious community. Therefore the rules that were created on the bus was also created to accommodate the needs of this particular religious community.
The community has no problem with the rules so why should they? When do they plan to travel the route again?
Why don’t the men sit at the back so women with little kids & strollers don’t fall on the men as they struggle to reach the back while the bus is in motion?
Maybe women accidentally falling on & bumping into the men is OK. Hmmmmm. So what’s the difference if I don’t move into the street when a man approaches on the sidewalk? Taliban. Sharia Law. Same thing.
“no matter how respectfully you ask or request a non-Jew to move his or her seat, the non-Jew is NOT obligated to do so on any public bus” and nor is any Jew who does not hold by this Chassidic custom. Unfortunately living in a free land has made us feel we are the bosses and can do whatever we want. That arrogance is why so many goyim hate us.
#56 .sefasayim yishak mayshiv devorum nechonim’ I have no doubt that thos who mock our SU are MO and down. The underlying factor is that es shtecht that we adhere to SU .’ vyigbor libo bedarcay hashem;
#59 did you learn thru shas and SU? probably not so where do you get YOUR dass torah from? glamor magazine? maddonnah etc? i dont understand how a reform whatever or christian who dont belive torah min hashomayin comment on a shomer torah site!!
Are all the Yeshivas and Shuls who recieve all types of assisstance from the government ,( grants ,tax exemptions etc ) next???
Well,the same argument can be made, how dare you seat Women & Men seperatly , you are a public entity as you recive money from the government??
Also this hyseria that this is a public bus is nonsense.
this is a PRIVATE bus that has a franchise from the City , which is in essence a license to pick up / drop off passangers on city streets.
I have a NYS license and my car is registerd by the NYS DMV and I pay the state for the privilage to drive in NYS , am I now prohibited from having a rule in my car , men in front , women in the rear???
So many unedukated yentas….my goodness! Give it up already. if you think “they” aer not reading our blogs, wake up and smell the coffee…
You’re feeding right into them…and they’re lovng every second of it.
Mt father a’h always said: “If you pass a house with a big dog and he runs to the fence and starts ferociously barking at you, will you get down on your hands and knees and bark back or will you continue walking?” Hamayvin yovin.
Any reason why you guys have a problem when BP and Williamsburg Yiden want to keep Gidrei Tznious and you don’t have a good word for them ,But for the Reporters what the only reason she went on the Bus is to Damage Mr Marmorsteins Business you all Praise her ?
#85 yes, and a women who eats on yom kupper, eats and treifos but but does so much for charity etc is a tzedekous?! Why dont you crawl back under your covers.There are righteous gentiles who will have a share in thier olom habbah but we wont lable them tzedekous.When we talk on a site like this about noshim tzidkonoious it implies trying to adhere to all taryg and. its torah shebal peh. which you dont seem to be aqainted with. Do you no that ‘tzinious’ for the woman is the yesod of klall yisroel aka kedushas am yisroel. This topic is lonng to be explained on this site
You are mixing apples and oranges…one thing does not preclude the other. Modesty of dress is a requirement, chessed another one, each judged individually. I know the difference bet. tznius and tzidkonios…but you obviously did not understand my response …
We are not made to feel ANYTHING. WE enjoy our role in the “kitchen”, we don’t all feel the need to prove ourselves with a career outside the home or a “degree” in anything. Our role as homemaker and parent relies on every skill imaginable, rendering us very intelligent and accomplished women!!!!! I chose to stay home and raise my kids…no one forced me to….all the while enjoying(and making money utilizing my other talents)No one forces us to the back of the bus, we do it out of modesty and we have voices…No one stills our voice. We are not ignorant or as subservient as you think. We are equal partners….and based on statistics still have the happiest lives…
#87 you dont seem to know about tznious and tzidkonious. your saying ‘hes an ehrlicher yid but jus eats treif here and there’