New York – The public commuter bus between Brooklyn and the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community of Kiryas Joel has cushioned seats, small televisions and another, more unusual feature: a heavy blue curtain that hangs from the ceiling and separates male and female passengers.
Subscribe to our Daily Roundup Email
On a bus ridden by reporters from the New York World and the Forward, men and women walked and sat on opposite sides of the divider which runs nearly the length of the center aisle. And a female reporter who sat on the wrong side of the divide was asked to move, though left alone when she declined.
The commuter buses are operated by Monroe Bus, a private firm that received nearly $1.6 million in government funding from the New York State Department of Transportation between 2009 and 2010 to operate commuter lines to and from Kiryas Joel in Orange County, N.Y. The sex-separated seating arrangements on publicly subsidized commuter routes — viewed by many of the ultra-Orthodox riders as an accommodation to Jewish modesty requirements — are said by one advocate to violate civil rights laws. Yet the details of how they are enforced may be crucial in assessing the practice’s legality.
We difinitly have a mole in our midst
“”— are said by one advocate to violate civil rights laws.””
Who feels violated? Did anybody complain? So far the reporters are violating civil right
Let these reporters get a life and go after O&R for still having power outages. I know a family with fourteen kids kah that still does not have power and had to shell out money for a generator yesterday. But when you tell that to reporters they will say don’t have so many kids, even though when a yid has fourteen ke’h they take care of the fourteen better than others take care of one.
“The Forward” only publishes two types of articles: Orthodox bashing, and celebrity kissing.
If this what the community wants leave them alone aint bothering anyone! And I think by now we can call this discrimination what the reporters are doing! Cause if these were muslims they would dare say a thing!
The Forward is the product of left wing Jews who not only do not follow Halacha, which is their business, but do not want to support others in doing what the left thinks is antiquated. They are intolerant, and want the government to poke into everyone else’s business. A perfect example of the nanny state they believe in.
i actually dont mind separation it is not as tense as when woman are toghether with men
Why are they running all over looking for violations.? They do not travel those routes and buses..No ones right has been violated..this is the way we orthodox jews travel .
Those reporters are only there to show their anti semitisim towards the orthodox community…Lets not forget we are in Goolis and we have to stay away from those mamzyrem therefore no one should even talk to them and totally ignore them..
Who else travels out to Kiryas Yoel? Doesn’t the Forward have more important things to do, like find out if Lady GaGa’s meat dress was kosher or not?
These Media outlets are without a doubt abusing the reason behind the freedom given to them as well the responsibility they have to report on news that matters to the majority people, 99.9% of people using these Buses are satisfied with this set up, and regardless if it is reported in the news or not this will never change since there aren’t any riders interested in changes, the only logic reason of reporting these stories are that these young reporters who are desperately trying to have their stories published in order to have their unknown names plastered all over the media using such cheap shots at the vulnerable Orthodox communities who mind their own business.
You don’t see anymore reports from the Amish community in the paper regrading their beard cutting incidents, Because for some reason the Amish laws are so cute and adorable, Go on youtube and checkout what Amish runaways have to say about their tules of life, these young reporters should go to AmishTown and ride their horse and buggies for several days….
What these reporters are doing is making trouble for the sole sake of creating trouble.
However, we opened the door. By accepting public money, we are obligated to serve the public, not the community. The public at large are strongly against gender segregation. It goes against traditionally American values.
When the female reporter refused to move, she was left alone. That was 100% the correct response and I am so glad to see how a potential chillul H” was avoided.
Those who say “if nobody is complaining, why start trouble?” are correct in principle, but not in practice. Public money is meant to serve the public at large and not just one cultural minority.
Let me say again that I am so proud of the community. They showed how the community lives, but were respectful of the female reporter’s request to sit where she chose. They gave up the small battle, and in doing so they won the day.
I have no problem with these fanatics running a mechichitza down the middle of the bus, making the women sit in the back or even stuffing them into the luggage bins under the bus. My concern is simply that such discrimination not be publicly subsidized in any way. The subsidies, stipends and public certifications and franchises should be removed immediately and then they can operate any way they want. The same rules should apply to ANY group discriminating in any way, yiddeshe or goiyeshe.
Your comments, while valid sentiments are missing the point. You can do what you like as long as you don’t take public (govt) money to do it. Once you take public money, the govt has a say on how it’s spent
I think next she will go after separate bathrooms and michitzas is shuls. She is someone bored looking for publicity. There are a lot of bored people that wanna become famous so they do stupid things (by the himishe ultra-Orthodox too) and ruin it for everyone!
how did they decide who sits on the right and who sits on the left?
i ride the trains every day. why dont the reporters go after people whom mostly (minorites) eat ,make all different trouble ,drink, take two seats,beg,come with drums,ect. we are in goo-liss.they will never never understand us only if we buy dogs and live a loose life as they do.bottom line they hate us because they envey us.
How stupid. These reporters should be using their positions to do some real criminal investigations like child and spousal abuse, like drug abuse, like who is selling illegal guns etc. But no– they go after a bus company whose clientele doesn’t care that the men and women are separated on the bus. We are used to the separation and if it doesn’t bother us, then why should it bother them? Because government money is accepted –that’s why. It’s a lynch mob just like it was with Rubashkin.
These mamzayrim at the Backward are part of the religious liberals – where Liberalism IS their religion. Its time the frum yiddin realize that liberalism is NOT the way to go!
These sames children of dogs caused agmas nefesh for the Willy Bus & they are the same dogs that caused problems for the Monsey Bus many years ago.
They are all part of the rabble rousing crowd – those with no life so speak of who feel its their responsibility to make life worse for you so they feel better.
They are MAMZAYRIM!
Think about it this way, we like it when we read a juicy article which is ridiculing middle eastern governments how they treat their women forcing them to wear Hijabs covering their bodies from head to toe except for a net at their eyes.
The fact of the matter is that we also do treat women as second class citizens, we say “shelo osani ishoo”, “nushem daaton kaalos” they’re not good for minyan, mziman, rabbi’s, chazunim, dayanim, witnesses, etc, in KJ they’re not even allowed to drive.
There doesn’t go a week by without a letter from some khila, mosed railing against some immoral women stuff, let it be a dress, shoes, talking loud, having a cell phone, walking on the street, etc.
But I don’t have a problem with it if its fine with the women, and its also only because they’re constantly brainwashed and hypnotized.
but get this into your head: you can’t take government money and segregate between races, genders, colors, it doesn’t matter if it comes to you because you’re religious or a racist, government is secular and if you can’t follow their rules follow your own rules with your own money, put your money where your mouth is.
This shows again in again that if u take money from the government by the end they’re the bus you have to follow the rules this is everywhere here and Israel as true gdolim have said stop it now
The Forward and the Jewish Week – both like to look for the negative side of Orthodoxy instead of looking at themselves.
The Media has nothing better to do with their time.
Why stop here. Everytime I go to the bathroom. I find that I am forced to go to a mens only bathroom. I have even seen these discriminatory bathrooms in federal bulidings (gasp). My point is that many times constitutional rights clash and its hard to say that following on’s own idea of morality is discriminatory. Some people think there should be seperate bathrooms, Some think there should be seperate seating too. Who are we to determine others moralities.
Anonymous 9:54AM – That’s a pretty broad statement. Care to provide any physical research/evidence to back your claim? Don’t comment on a parents ability, until you become one yourself.
As for the bus situation, if the company is getting government funding, they are obligated to abide by the rules of the New York state. If they want to make their own rules, do not accept money from the government. Money, which is coming from everyone’s taxes.
This is what the NY Civil Liberties Union chooses to denounce as unlawful. This is what they choose to denounce as discriminatory and unfair? Busses that were put on route specifically to accommodate the orthodox Jewish need for a route between their very ultra religious communities. Busses and routes that are rarely used by anyone other than these religious Jews who have taken upon themselves to separate on these busses. THIS becomes an issue to write about and complain about?
The Government went after an innocent man who build up a sleepy ghost town in Iowa building it up and bringing it an economy that it never before had and never will again according to their own Mayor. A man that the Mayor vouched for. And because of the Government’s NEED to destroy him and be “RIGHT”, they forced him in to bankruptcy and panic and he made poor decisions that cost him his freedom. Then the judge who collaborated with the prosecution many times even before the crimes and before the trial sentenced him to 27 years in jail for a crime equal to what others are serving a year for. He was treated like a rapist or a murderer for a white collar crime.
continued.
Ok. So let’s get this straight. When it was the will/bp bus, all we heard about was how terrible it is to have women sit in the back. Now that women do get to sit in the front, they find some other dumb thing to complain about. Why do we even care what they say?
no problem, next time she refuses to move just put a mechitza around her seat.
Am I reading correctly? It is the JEWISH forward rag newspaper sending their reporters to stir up trouble. Shame on the reporters ,shame on the managers that send them, shame on the mother that bore children that go rat on other Jews , when there is no crime being committed , only a little tzniyus. We believe what is says in the torah that G d took us out of Egypt because we were modest. You reporters are trying to do the opposite. We won’t hit you or shame you, were smarter than that , but G d will definitely punish you.
It’s war against frum Yidden going to work. It started when former MTA head Jay Walder axed the X29 Express Bus. You were all silent then.
I am an FFB woman
I don’t think I would ever choose to sit in the back of the bus. It is much more bumpy and nauseating. I have much less of an issue with left-right, but I do have an issue with the mechitza, unless they are actively davening on the bus.
It is not against orthodox practice to sit mixed on a train or bus and certainly not a problem to sit with your husband, father, or son. But as long as they leave someone who sits in the wrong area alone, I don’t see a problem with simply the request.