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Jerusalem - Israeli Chief Rabbi: This Is Not The Way The Gemara Taught Us (audio)

Published on: December 28, 2011 08:26 PM
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FILE - Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi of Israel Yona Metzger. Flash90Jerusalem - As Mehadrin bus service and news of violence in Beit Shemesh continue to make headlines, Zev Brenner speaks with the chief rabbi of Israel, Rabbi Yona Metzger, on tonight’s Talkline program about the recent disturbances that are pitting segments of Israel’s population against each other. 

Condemning the extremist violence in Beit Shemesh, Rabbi Metzger advised that any man who feels strongly that he doesn’t want to be near a woman should remove himself from the situation, instead of insisting that it is the woman who must leave, quoting a Gemara stating that if someone is walking to a synagogue and there is a woman on the street, they have absolutely no right to tell her to leave, but instead they themselves should find a different route.

Displaying a wealth of insight and sensitivity, Rabbi Metzger explained how in order to acquire certain bus lines that would serve the Chareidi community and grow its customer base, Egged agreed to certain religious restrictions on the buses that served these particular routes, which included seating female passengers in the rear section of the bus.  Ten years later, Egged, a publicly owned company, now finds itself regularly in the headlines as customers protest being forced to abide by those same restrictions.

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While in the case of Egged the answer may lie in privatization, Rabbi Metzger suggested that in all other matters, it is tolerance and acceptance that is the key and that all members of society must learn to honor and respect the religious beliefs of others.

Hear below the full interview to be aired tonight on Talkline communications.



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Read Comments (31)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Dec 28, 2011 at 08:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Metzger is absolutly right in his views on all of these issues but unfortunately the "Chief Rabbi" of EY has about as much influence among the chareidi tzibur as Madona. The only listen to their own rabbonim who have been totally silent on these outrageous events.

2

 Dec 28, 2011 at 08:53 PM czyrankevic Says:

the gemora says that r.yehuda thinking on a female that she is a jewess ripped of a certainpiece of clothing which at that time was considered immodest and he got accolades for his mesiras nefesh so much so that just by removing one shoe tha rain came immediately without him uttring a prayer.

3

 Dec 28, 2011 at 09:00 PM harryw Says:

Let's make one thing clear before we go any further. There is no justifications for violence of any form towards anyone who you disagree with. Its not the torah way. Its not etical and its inumane.

Having said that, I must express my great dissapointment with these gvrmnt serving rabbis like metzger or law or yosef and sons who felt the urgency to condemn the aggresivness of the radicals within the frum community but completly ignored stressing the importance of torah observing woman to dress in a modest fashion. Moreover, they make no mention of the fact that the anti religous circles are riding a bitter hate and smear campaign aginst the orthodox community. There is no question that the non-observent campaign went too far and overboard with their negative propeganda.

These rabbis lost touch with halacha and have completly betrayed their obligation and responsibilities. They are affraid to keep a balanced response to this matter out of fear for their gvrmnt position or just to appease their wealthy modern congregants.

4

 Dec 28, 2011 at 09:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Metzger is absolutly right in his views on all of these issues but unfortunately the "Chief Rabbi" of EY has about as much influence among the chareidi tzibur as Madona. The only listen to their own rabbonim who have been totally silent on these outrageous events.

The extremists don't listen to anyone. They will say that the bedatz is too liberal for them too - the spitters and stone throwers have no daas torah - the problem is that most people don't know that and lump normal mainstream Satmar and Bedatz together with these crazies

5

 Dec 28, 2011 at 09:56 PM menachemwh Says:

Reply to #3  
harryw Says:

Let's make one thing clear before we go any further. There is no justifications for violence of any form towards anyone who you disagree with. Its not the torah way. Its not etical and its inumane.

Having said that, I must express my great dissapointment with these gvrmnt serving rabbis like metzger or law or yosef and sons who felt the urgency to condemn the aggresivness of the radicals within the frum community but completly ignored stressing the importance of torah observing woman to dress in a modest fashion. Moreover, they make no mention of the fact that the anti religous circles are riding a bitter hate and smear campaign aginst the orthodox community. There is no question that the non-observent campaign went too far and overboard with their negative propeganda.

These rabbis lost touch with halacha and have completly betrayed their obligation and responsibilities. They are affraid to keep a balanced response to this matter out of fear for their gvrmnt position or just to appease their wealthy modern congregants.

They havent lost the touch. I think you have. You dont understand when Torah is mocked and made to be looked upon as a work form yesteryear. We cant speak up about torah now becuase they made it look so foolish. Besides these kanoyim are attacking modern orthodox jews because of their beliefs and their psak halacha from their rabbonim. This has nothing to do with defense of torah values

6

 Dec 28, 2011 at 10:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
harryw Says:

Let's make one thing clear before we go any further. There is no justifications for violence of any form towards anyone who you disagree with. Its not the torah way. Its not etical and its inumane.

Having said that, I must express my great dissapointment with these gvrmnt serving rabbis like metzger or law or yosef and sons who felt the urgency to condemn the aggresivness of the radicals within the frum community but completly ignored stressing the importance of torah observing woman to dress in a modest fashion. Moreover, they make no mention of the fact that the anti religous circles are riding a bitter hate and smear campaign aginst the orthodox community. There is no question that the non-observent campaign went too far and overboard with their negative propeganda.

These rabbis lost touch with halacha and have completly betrayed their obligation and responsibilities. They are affraid to keep a balanced response to this matter out of fear for their gvrmnt position or just to appease their wealthy modern congregants.

I think it is you who has lost touch. How dare you refer to Rav Metzger, shlita or Chacham Ovadia, shlita as if they were "political hacks" who would say anything to appease the government. You should beg for mechila from these two gadoylei yisroel.

7

 Dec 28, 2011 at 10:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
czyrankevic Says:

the gemora says that r.yehuda thinking on a female that she is a jewess ripped of a certainpiece of clothing which at that time was considered immodest and he got accolades for his mesiras nefesh so much so that just by removing one shoe tha rain came immediately without him uttring a prayer.

That does not mean that one should do this today. We do not have the Bais Hamikdosh and lack the awareness of and fear of Hashem that existed before galus. Because of modern inroads, people have lost a feel for modesty.

8

 Dec 28, 2011 at 11:00 PM EYEPOPPING Says:

Must see, letter signed by Rav Shach, Rav Shlomo zalman and Rav Eliyashiv printed in michtovim umamorim, chelek 5, letter #551.
It is a letter publish to defend yidden who where arrested for graffiting advertisements in frum neighborhoods that where deemed immodest.
DAAS TORAH HEPECH DAAS BALEI BATIM PERIOD!

9

 Dec 28, 2011 at 11:19 PM esther Says:

Reply to #3  
harryw Says:

Let's make one thing clear before we go any further. There is no justifications for violence of any form towards anyone who you disagree with. Its not the torah way. Its not etical and its inumane.

Having said that, I must express my great dissapointment with these gvrmnt serving rabbis like metzger or law or yosef and sons who felt the urgency to condemn the aggresivness of the radicals within the frum community but completly ignored stressing the importance of torah observing woman to dress in a modest fashion. Moreover, they make no mention of the fact that the anti religous circles are riding a bitter hate and smear campaign aginst the orthodox community. There is no question that the non-observent campaign went too far and overboard with their negative propeganda.

These rabbis lost touch with halacha and have completly betrayed their obligation and responsibilities. They are affraid to keep a balanced response to this matter out of fear for their gvrmnt position or just to appease their wealthy modern congregants.

to tie the 2 together only gives the impression of somehow trying to justify the violence.

10

 Dec 28, 2011 at 11:28 PM ablydec Says:

Even if the crazies don't listen, people, as many as possible, must still speak up for what is right. When we label the extreme Neturei Karta (cozying up to Iran) as off the wall, they don't change, but at least they are established as a lunatic fringe, and the kavod of mainstream yiddishkeit is not impeached. If enough of us speak up for the truth, the hooligans will be seen as just that.

11

 Dec 28, 2011 at 11:31 PM Toras Hashem Temima Says:

Rav Metzger is a Tzaddik and completely right. I do not understand the logic of the people who are treating Bnos Hashem Yisborach terribly. They enforce their not-erliche interpretation of the Torah on all people. Are not they the ones who scream about in golus we cant have a Medinah or practice any power. However they seem to be quite militant and not acting within the golus spirit. They take advantage of living in a Jewish land, to cause Klal yisrael so many problems. Their actions are a huge Chilul Hashem. May Hashem have Rachmanus on Klal Yisrael and may the ways of the Tzaddik of Yerushalyim, Reb Aryeh Levin, be the ways of every member of Klal Yisrael.

12

 Dec 29, 2011 at 12:51 AM BaalMussar Says:

What we seem to forget here, is the fact that the frum people wanted their own bus services, but the government didn't want to lose the income from the chareidim so the government offered the Mehadrio line to keep jobs and income for the secular world since so many more Chareidim use buses than seculars because they don't drive. Also what we need to remember is that in the prisoner swap for Shalit the Israelis just completed, many secular guards and prison workers are without jobs.. so they decided to fill the prisons up with the Chareidim. please don't complain about the Chareidim not adding to the financial system in Israel.

13

 Dec 29, 2011 at 01:33 AM Respect Says:

Reply to #8  
EYEPOPPING Says:

Must see, letter signed by Rav Shach, Rav Shlomo zalman and Rav Eliyashiv printed in michtovim umamorim, chelek 5, letter #551.
It is a letter publish to defend yidden who where arrested for graffiting advertisements in frum neighborhoods that where deemed immodest.
DAAS TORAH HEPECH DAAS BALEI BATIM PERIOD!

First of all, this issue has nothing to do with Pritzus as that issue did. I'm not going to go into the particulars of the ads in question, but a frum 7 year old girl walking to her girl-only school isn't in the same position as the women in those ads.

That entire parsha isn't an issue anymore in Bet Shemesh or Yerushalayim.

14

 Dec 29, 2011 at 01:40 AM Repect Says:

Reply to #3  
harryw Says:

Let's make one thing clear before we go any further. There is no justifications for violence of any form towards anyone who you disagree with. Its not the torah way. Its not etical and its inumane.

Having said that, I must express my great dissapointment with these gvrmnt serving rabbis like metzger or law or yosef and sons who felt the urgency to condemn the aggresivness of the radicals within the frum community but completly ignored stressing the importance of torah observing woman to dress in a modest fashion. Moreover, they make no mention of the fact that the anti religous circles are riding a bitter hate and smear campaign aginst the orthodox community. There is no question that the non-observent campaign went too far and overboard with their negative propeganda.

These rabbis lost touch with halacha and have completly betrayed their obligation and responsibilities. They are affraid to keep a balanced response to this matter out of fear for their gvrmnt position or just to appease their wealthy modern congregants.

I hope you are thinking before you post. These are huge rabbanim you are dismissing.

As background on their roles:
There are rabbanim that speak strictly for their community, rabbanim that speak for the broader klal and rabbanim that try to speak for everyone. Those put in the position of being Rav HaRashi have a single goal: to increase shmiras hamitzvos in E"Y. This includes making sure that kosher food at the basic level is as broadly available as possible - which will make keeping a basic level of kosher easier. This isn't to say that they would keep by these standards, it simply means that they want SOME level of kashrus to be available for the masses.

The same is true on a host of other issues. This governing hashkafa invites the broadest possible community into shmiras torah umitvos. So we it comes to separate seating and the like, their role is not to set the top standard. Part of their role is to be an ambassador of torah values to the broader community - which does in involve politics - and is something few of us appreciate. That is not an easy job, and from what I've heard they both do it very well.

15

 Dec 29, 2011 at 02:18 AM favish Says:

Reply to #2  
czyrankevic Says:

the gemora says that r.yehuda thinking on a female that she is a jewess ripped of a certainpiece of clothing which at that time was considered immodest and he got accolades for his mesiras nefesh so much so that just by removing one shoe tha rain came immediately without him uttring a prayer.

Why dont you get the gemmorah straight ? wasnt reb yehudah

16

 Dec 29, 2011 at 02:22 AM faker Says:

Reply to #7  
Anonymous Says:

That does not mean that one should do this today. We do not have the Bais Hamikdosh and lack the awareness of and fear of Hashem that existed before galus. Because of modern inroads, people have lost a feel for modesty.

but you are against this not because of today yesterday or tomorrow, you are against it because of your dass ' vyisarvu bagoyim veyilmedu mimasayhem'

17

 Dec 29, 2011 at 04:09 AM HaNavon Says:

#2,

Relearn the gemara...
It says that he was wearing a red outfit. Look at the Rema in Y'D, hil. chukas akum, that red clothes are assur because it's goyish, the way of royalty, not because it was appealing to the teyvos!
Why are these people looking at married women and 8 year old girls?! They're sick in the head! What business is it of theirs what women look like?? They should tell their wives and daughters to dress tznius and fartik! R Chisda spoke to a zonah with a lashon nachas, why are nashim tzidkoonios, shomrei das any different?
Worst case, let them conveine a beis din and be mzamein the rosh hakahal of the mod-orth community, but spitting on a little girl?! It's sick!

18

 Dec 29, 2011 at 06:56 AM qazxc Says:

Reply to #8  
EYEPOPPING Says:

Must see, letter signed by Rav Shach, Rav Shlomo zalman and Rav Eliyashiv printed in michtovim umamorim, chelek 5, letter #551.
It is a letter publish to defend yidden who where arrested for graffiting advertisements in frum neighborhoods that where deemed immodest.
DAAS TORAH HEPECH DAAS BALEI BATIM PERIOD!

No such gemara. Period.

19

 Dec 29, 2011 at 07:18 AM SherryTheNoahide Says:

Reply to #11  
Toras Hashem Temima Says:

Rav Metzger is a Tzaddik and completely right. I do not understand the logic of the people who are treating Bnos Hashem Yisborach terribly. They enforce their not-erliche interpretation of the Torah on all people. Are not they the ones who scream about in golus we cant have a Medinah or practice any power. However they seem to be quite militant and not acting within the golus spirit. They take advantage of living in a Jewish land, to cause Klal yisrael so many problems. Their actions are a huge Chilul Hashem. May Hashem have Rachmanus on Klal Yisrael and may the ways of the Tzaddik of Yerushalyim, Reb Aryeh Levin, be the ways of every member of Klal Yisrael.

Beautiful post!

That is my wish too...

I was so impressed w\this Rabbi! This is the 1st I think I've heard of him, but apparently he's a big deal in Israel! And thank goodness! He seems level-headed, compassionate, intelligent, sound in Gemerah & more importantly... CORRECT!

He seems to be correct in his interpretation of the scriptures & I'm glad that you folks have someone so incredible helping to calm the tempers over there.

Now, whether or not the whackos will listen to him.... is another story I suppose.

20

 Dec 29, 2011 at 07:26 AM SherryTheNoahide Says:

Reply to #2  
czyrankevic Says:

the gemora says that r.yehuda thinking on a female that she is a jewess ripped of a certainpiece of clothing which at that time was considered immodest and he got accolades for his mesiras nefesh so much so that just by removing one shoe tha rain came immediately without him uttring a prayer.

Ok, am I the only one who was a little disturbed by your post? I hope not...

I understand that you are quoting Gemerah here, but just siting a place in the Gemerah were a VERY HOLY person, took action on a improperly dressed Jewish woman... isn't enough to make the case that spitting on children, calling PROPER women of Israel "pritzas", yelling, screaming, cursing, objectifying women, etc. is acceptable!

Do you honestly think that these whackos are following Gemerah, or even have the AUTHORITY to do such a thing, considering (a) Golus, (b) they make Chillul HaShem everywhere they go, (c) they act unbecoming of Torah when they make their points in the 1st place, and (d) they have been given no authority to behave this way, or to enforce the laws of Gemerah onto OTHER PEOPLE'S WIVES & DAUGHTERS!

No! They have no permission to do this stuff my friend & not to mention... what makes them so Holy, that they even think they have the merit to judge others, to act out like this, etc?

Maybe when the Moshiach comes, and everything has changed & the 3rd Temple is built!

Until then... they are to let OTHER Fathers deal w\their own wives & daughters & should be STAYING OUT OF IT!!!!

21

 Dec 29, 2011 at 08:39 AM One Torah Says:

Reply to #3  
harryw Says:

Let's make one thing clear before we go any further. There is no justifications for violence of any form towards anyone who you disagree with. Its not the torah way. Its not etical and its inumane.

Having said that, I must express my great dissapointment with these gvrmnt serving rabbis like metzger or law or yosef and sons who felt the urgency to condemn the aggresivness of the radicals within the frum community but completly ignored stressing the importance of torah observing woman to dress in a modest fashion. Moreover, they make no mention of the fact that the anti religous circles are riding a bitter hate and smear campaign aginst the orthodox community. There is no question that the non-observent campaign went too far and overboard with their negative propeganda.

These rabbis lost touch with halacha and have completly betrayed their obligation and responsibilities. They are affraid to keep a balanced response to this matter out of fear for their gvrmnt position or just to appease their wealthy modern congregants.

You are right on the mark, even though the liberal minds won't appreciate the honest truth you brought up, this is unfortunately the situation with some Rabbis that just want to please and "chanfa" the secularists and "oifgeklerte" .
When I'll see any form of a protest, or even throwing in atleast a word about the importance of kedushas yisroel, or a small sign of protest on the secular perpetrators and their violence as well as he condemns some charedim, then I'll suspect it has some connection with torah or honesty, other wise its one big baloney, torah fakers and partners to crime.

22

 Dec 29, 2011 at 08:40 AM wow-wee Says:

the RaMBaM's (maimonidies) son R' Avrum writes in his Sefer that CHASIDUS does not mean to wear thick wool clothing (apparently the then chasidishe levush) and his example for Chasidus is from Choinu Haamagol's grand son who when the chahcomim went to ask him to pray for rain, his wife came out to him beautifully bejeweled and he explained that it's "so that i shouldn't be interested in looking at other woman"

"נפקא דביתהו דמר כי מיקשטא, אמר להו "כדי שלא אתן עיני באשה אחרת
(Taanis 23b)
Yes 1000 years ago (and 2000 years) there where people that thought chasidus means to dress with CHANYOKISHE clothing the wife should wear a SHPITZEL and every SHIKSE with long hear should attract them.
instead R' avrum ben h'Rmbm says MAKE SURE YOUR WIFE IS ATTRACTIVE ENOUGH FOR YOU AND YOU WON'T CARE TO SIN "THAT'S CHASIDUS"

23

 Dec 29, 2011 at 08:54 AM Hypocrites! Says:

Reply to #3  
harryw Says:

Let's make one thing clear before we go any further. There is no justifications for violence of any form towards anyone who you disagree with. Its not the torah way. Its not etical and its inumane.

Having said that, I must express my great dissapointment with these gvrmnt serving rabbis like metzger or law or yosef and sons who felt the urgency to condemn the aggresivness of the radicals within the frum community but completly ignored stressing the importance of torah observing woman to dress in a modest fashion. Moreover, they make no mention of the fact that the anti religous circles are riding a bitter hate and smear campaign aginst the orthodox community. There is no question that the non-observent campaign went too far and overboard with their negative propeganda.

These rabbis lost touch with halacha and have completly betrayed their obligation and responsibilities. They are affraid to keep a balanced response to this matter out of fear for their gvrmnt position or just to appease their wealthy modern congregants.

Why?? when Mr. Libak was cursing and yelling slurs at an innocent charedi woman, and then started spitting on a 4 year old girl, why is everybody quiet?? how hypocritical can some people be?
Why? when a secular woman was spitting at a charedi yungerman in Bnei Berak this week while chasing him with dirty slurs I heard no protest not from those Rabbis and neither from those "righteous" commentators on the web, and of course not from the "Jew loving" secular media in Israel, where is everybody?
Why when a yungerman was spat on by a secular woman in Yerushalayim
we "hear" a big silence?
when the Beth Shemesh charedim, who live in a separate area with no seculars there, not even the MO, and the secularists come over to provoke the charedim, giving them hell about their lifestyle, stirring up commotions on shtussim, while the charedim never go down to the secular areas to tell them what to do, all this activity is taking place within the charedi quarters, but there is a deafening silence! I don't see no protests, op eds, rabbinical condemnation, bloggers,
Where are all the protests? where are those Rabonim that would only stand up when one person is accused of spitting on small kid?

24

 Dec 29, 2011 at 08:55 AM Nebech Says:

Whether the chareidim are right or wrong is a question,that only their gedolim can answer.
We can't pasken for them, and it makes no difference how we feel about it.

Now,should a person get up from another group and criticize them.
This person had better be one who keeps the whole Torah and knows what he is talking about .
Because the chareidim in the past have had gedolim who were known to be geonei olam and tremendous tzadikim ,and they supported a lot of this kannaais(because they loved the Torah and fought to keep it strong)

Now even though I have dissagreements in the level of action taken by these Chareidim
I understand that sometimes when you fight against something you have to over do it
To fortify your defenses
(and that's better than under doing it)

But there is one thing which I don't understand and that is, why do we attack the chareidim every free chance we get
Is it because of the fact that they don't work or join the army?
Why do we care?
Doesn't Hashem have his eyes over eretz yisroel always ?
Do we think our histadlus means anything?

You don't have to be a kannoi to answer these questions
Anyone who understands what eretz yisroel is
Knows that the land is only safe when people are keeping the torah,
And when nations filled up their scale of aveiros Hashem swept them out of there,
And that's why 100 years ago, only people who were ovdei Hashem moved there
Because the land is like one big beis hamedrash
(and it's assur by the way to idle chat in a beis hamedrash)

Now when this wonderful sweet person rabbi yona metzger gets up and criticizes
The chareidim,I find it very funny because it's not like he is a Talmud Chacham on the same caliber who can argue with the chareidim,
I mean he is a darling of a person, a complete sweet heart , (i heard him speak a few times)but that does mean Much, when arguing with geonei olam who were tremendous tzadikim who would have criticized him and excommunicated him for orchastrating mixed weddings with mixed dancing in eretz yisroe

May we merit seeing mashiach and the beauty of eretz yisroel in our days.

25

 Dec 29, 2011 at 09:01 AM Michael in Seattle Says:

Reply to #2  
czyrankevic Says:

the gemora says that r.yehuda thinking on a female that she is a jewess ripped of a certainpiece of clothing which at that time was considered immodest and he got accolades for his mesiras nefesh so much so that just by removing one shoe tha rain came immediately without him uttring a prayer.

And when he was wrong, he agreed to pay 400 zuz. That rabbi followed the law, whether for him or against him. The thugs in Israel are making up laws that only work for them.

26

 Dec 29, 2011 at 09:08 AM ModernLakewoodGuy Says:

What a breath of fresh air to hear him speak so intelligently and logically on this issue. I think he should also subject these spitters to counseling sessions, as they are clearly sexually aroused by a 7 year olds exposed toes in sandals. That must be the source of their agression, frustration over the fact that their wives do not let them stare at their toes when they want.

27

 Dec 29, 2011 at 10:16 AM qazxc Says:

Reply to #26  
ModernLakewoodGuy Says:

What a breath of fresh air to hear him speak so intelligently and logically on this issue. I think he should also subject these spitters to counseling sessions, as they are clearly sexually aroused by a 7 year olds exposed toes in sandals. That must be the source of their agression, frustration over the fact that their wives do not let them stare at their toes when they want.

I've believed and said to friends and family for years that the 'tznius patrols' are as obsessed with ervah as much as any pervert who spends his whole day thinking about 'pritzusdig' dressed women.

Add to that simmering anger over their perception that everyone else is having more fun with their allowed relationships, they feel trapped knowing their situation will never change so they'll never get a piece of the cake they think everyone else is enjoying and we have a group of very volatile, very aggressive, very frustrated, very angry, repressed men roaming the streets looking for 'kosher' ways to vent their frustrations.

R"L, they see spitting on little girls for having pretty toes as more 'kosher' than buying their wives a nice bottle of bright red nail polish and telling them wearing it will protect them from an ayin horah (or from foot fungus, which ever worries her more).
Might do wonders for their shalom bayis too. I know I wouldn't have much shalom bayis c"v if my wife saw video of me on Youtube, busy checking out little girls feet.

28

 Dec 29, 2011 at 11:13 AM Ben_Kol Says:

Reply to #2  
czyrankevic Says:

the gemora says that r.yehuda thinking on a female that she is a jewess ripped of a certainpiece of clothing which at that time was considered immodest and he got accolades for his mesiras nefesh so much so that just by removing one shoe tha rain came immediately without him uttring a prayer.

Actually, it was R' Adda bar Ahava. And according to Beis Yosef the garment was assur because it was shaatnez.

In any event, this Gemara is irrelevant. Only kedoshim u'tehorim like R' Adda bar Ahava (and Pinchas HaKohen), whose motives are totally leshem Shomayim, have the right to engage in kannaus.

29

 Dec 29, 2011 at 01:02 PM yaakov123 Says:

i hate to say it.... But these so called charedim (not the population as a whole) who fight for "torah values" are completely wrong and further more the people in the community who stand by them and dont protest to their violent ways are just as bad....
There is no reason to yell at a girl who grew up i a certain way, different from you prefference, or spit on children. These people are not tzaddikim and im not afraid to say it. Live and let live!
I real chossid can luve in the most horrible of places like our previous genrations in Ukrain and russia with the worst of people and most immodisstly dressed women, but they will still keep all the mitzvos of the torah and be the most g-dly people to roam the earth, and i dont here any ba'al shem tov stories about protests against women or spitting on children!....
A real tzaddik can look down or close his eyes and stay within his own daled amos. Simplicity is bliss!

30

 Dec 29, 2011 at 02:58 PM greg83 Says:

Reply to #29  
yaakov123 Says:

i hate to say it.... But these so called charedim (not the population as a whole) who fight for "torah values" are completely wrong and further more the people in the community who stand by them and dont protest to their violent ways are just as bad....
There is no reason to yell at a girl who grew up i a certain way, different from you prefference, or spit on children. These people are not tzaddikim and im not afraid to say it. Live and let live!
I real chossid can luve in the most horrible of places like our previous genrations in Ukrain and russia with the worst of people and most immodisstly dressed women, but they will still keep all the mitzvos of the torah and be the most g-dly people to roam the earth, and i dont here any ba'al shem tov stories about protests against women or spitting on children!....
A real tzaddik can look down or close his eyes and stay within his own daled amos. Simplicity is bliss!

Beatuful post! Could I not have said better.

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 Dec 31, 2011 at 07:21 PM favish Says:

Reply to #28  
Ben_Kol Says:

Actually, it was R' Adda bar Ahava. And according to Beis Yosef the garment was assur because it was shaatnez.

In any event, this Gemara is irrelevant. Only kedoshim u'tehorim like R' Adda bar Ahava (and Pinchas HaKohen), whose motives are totally leshem Shomayim, have the right to engage in kannaus.

please post exactly where i can refer to this bais yosef. rashi and all mforshim say no such thing

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