Jerusalem – Eida Chareidis Letter Authenticated

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    Jerusalem – The letter released yesterday by the Eida HaChareidis that was signed by the leading Rabbis of the Eida Chareidis caused some serious consternation among Bnei Torah throughout the world. VIN News asked Rabbi Yair Hoffman to reach out to his contacts within the Eida Chareidis to verify the accuracy of the Kol Koreh and to see what is behind it.

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    Firstly, it should be noted that the letter is authentic, and all the Rabbonim whose signatures appear on the letter were contacted. This being said, as in numerous letters that are issued by organizations –certain requests made by Rabbonim for paragraphs and or clauses to be removed – were not honored and their signatures were appended to this version, nonetheless.

    The two most prominent signatures were R’ Yitzchak Tuvia Weiss and R’ Moshe Shternbuch, and the general tone of the letter came out in support of the Sikrikim. There was strong condemnation for those who oppose voluntary gender segregation on buses, and the extrememly harsh and violent methods of the police.

    The letter describes Shmuel Weissfish, who finally admitted to causing both bodily and monetary damages to the owner of the Spice electronics store “a respected individual.” It characterizes recent events as “another chapter in our golus, with evil Jews who are in a position of authority persecuting righteous individuals because of a deep seated jealousy of those who fear G-d and worship Him in truth and sincerity.”

    It further stated that the obligation to maintain standards of modesty is even more necessary in light of the current situation “It is incumbent upon us to guard ourselves in all matters of tznius and holiness, to be extra vigilant in matters of tznius on our busses and to check the foundations of our houses to ensure that no strange influences, even those that claim to be from the chareidi community, penetrate our homes.”

    The letter also characterized the media as unfairly portraying the religious Jewish community and that many of the charges against the religious were false and trumped up.

    All the Rabbonim were very concerned about the daily religious oppression that is occurring. Some Rabbonim did not want the Weissfish section of the letter put in because they disagreed with it and only signed the letter on the condition that this be taken out. This was ignored by those who put out the letter. The fact that Mr. Weissfish received a sentence of two years, however, was deemed excessive by everyone.

    Members of the Eida believe that the spitting was isolated incident blown out of proportion and of course is “stupid.” The rock-throwing has been condemned in the past but will not be listened to each time. The silence of the Eida before the “holocaust rally” shows that there was no support for it from the Eida.

    Privately, members of the Eida Chareidis once again reminded this author that the Eida Chareidis has no spokesman and that anyone claiming such a position is misrepresenting things.


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    100 Comments
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    Ben_Kol
    Ben_Kol
    12 years ago

    I’m not surprised but I still feel sick.

    I don’t see how I can eat anything with a bd’tz hechsher. But in view of how their products permeate the kosher food industry, can anyone suggest how to avoid them?

    some1
    some1
    12 years ago

    Now they have to really come out and say with signatures on this issue, right or left, if not then this was a real kol koreh and now trying to get both sides on their side.

    NeveAliza
    NeveAliza
    12 years ago

    Why is this a surprise and why has it “caused some serious consternation among Bnei Torah throughout the world”? Therein lies the answer. The Eida are NOT Bnei Torah. So once you’ve established that, it should not cause any surprise. Or “consternation”. I like that. Consternation. Good one.

    CampRunamok
    CampRunamok
    12 years ago

    In other words, the right hand of the Eidah has no idea what the left hand is doing, both hands are basically undoing the work of each other, “freelance” individuals are basically doing whatever they want with the Eidah’s name and there is nobody qualified to say anything on the Eida’s behalf.

    Why should anyone ever trust anything that comes out of this organization; authorized or not?

    12 years ago

    It would be so much better, if the Heimishe start having real jobs. Yes, real jobs.
    They whould feel much happier about themselves, not frustrated about sitting around all day doing nothing.
    Then, all the protests, fights and Kanouos will stop, and they won’t have to come to the USA for Schnorring either.

    12 years ago

    I’m proud of the Eida, they are not afraid of anyone, any pressure, or media pressure or threat of a boycott.

    chaimme
    chaimme
    12 years ago

    they have just added fuel to a fire of sinat chinnum. well done.

    davidj
    davidj
    12 years ago

    “Privately, members of the Eida Chareidis once again reminded this author that the Eida Chareidis has no spokesman”

    How can they have no spokesman? This is absurd.

    Oyvey
    Oyvey
    12 years ago

    I have commented before that those that are doing these despicable acts are not just a few despite the claims of our Rabbonim who’ve tried to play it down. I wonder how they will be able to spin this new development. .
    The Satmat Rebbe is quoted as saying that there will come a time when chareidim won’t be able to live in Eretz Yisroel; these chareidim are doing their utmost to make this come true.

    Miguel
    Miguel
    12 years ago

    So much for the ‘few nutcases’ excuse. The media did us all a favor by blowing this story up. The Eida did us a bigger favor. This is NOT a small problem of a few rotten apples. This is a large and growing issue. And it’s not limited to Israel. Our women walk around like it’s a big funeral every day, dressed in black from head to toe. How many steps removed from a burqa is that? probably meany, but a lot less that it used to be. Sometimes I think frum people with the capacity for thinking on their own are a dying breed. Hashem Yirachem.

    indisbelief
    indisbelief
    12 years ago

    There is something wrong here –

    The Rabbonim of the Eidah (official spokespeople or not) clearly know that shtikah k’hoda’ah on these issues.

    They will continue to isolate themselves from mainstream Charedim with proclamations of these sorts.

    At the end of the day, each individual is responsible for his/her own actions before G-d…let each Jew on every side of this turn inwards first and ask, have I perfected my service of Hashem…

    Until such a day, Klal Yisrael will continue to divide itself.

    Lo Aleinu

    Barsechel
    Barsechel
    12 years ago

    Shame! Chilul Hashem! The Eida will have to give Din V’cheshbon fir this

    Babishka
    Member
    Babishka
    12 years ago

    This is very disappointing.

    MidwesternGuy
    MidwesternGuy
    12 years ago

    Interesting final sentence, where Edah members say that nobody speaks for the Edah.

    It’s just a way providing plausible deniability for any and all things. Real Gedolim stand behind what they say, no matter what, and are not afraid of saying the emes.

    dspiegel
    dspiegel
    12 years ago

    “… The silence of the Eida before the “holocaust rally” shows that there was no support for it from the Eida. …”
    Let us put this in perspective … Change Eida to Saudi Arabia and “holocaust rally” to “9/11”.
    Would any logical, rational human being believe that since Saudi Arabia did not say anything before 9/11, it means that they were not in support of it?

    Rabbi Hoffman SHLIT”O, do you actually believe this statement, or, are you merely repeating verbatim what the Eida spokesperson (Oh! … I forgot, they don’t have any of these (and I suppose that the no spokesperson statement is true too)) said?

    Even if this “statement” is 100% accurate, why can’t the Eida do a M’cho’oh afterwards to show their displeasure with people who (supposedly) get their Daas Toiroh from the Eida?

    Crazykanoiy
    Crazykanoiy
    12 years ago

    “The silence of the Eida before the “holocaust rally” shows that there was no support for it from the Eida.”

    Just the opposite. The silence of the Eidah proves that they tolerate if not encourage such rallies.

    ConcernedMember
    ConcernedMember
    12 years ago

    So it’s one of the two following scenarios:

    1) The Eida supports violent, self appointed criminals who harm other Jews and destroy their property.
    2) The Eida has no idea what’s being said in their names and no power to control the text of letters released by their own members.

    I challenge ANYONE here to please explain to me how any Jew can trust their hechsher. One of those two possibilities MUST be true. Either one should disqualify this group as being trustworthy. So please… someone tell me how we can trust that they are the people who should be certifying Kashrus.

    YJay1
    YJay1
    12 years ago

    This is ridiculous. Unless they get themselves a spokesman who speaks exclusively in their name, we cannot believe anything that carries these Rabbonim’s signatures, for the better or for the worse.

    They need to get themselves a spokesman, FAST!

    NeveAliza
    NeveAliza
    12 years ago

    A little gematria for you:
    העידה החרדית = 721
    ולא יכלו דברו לשלום = 721

    joek212
    joek212
    12 years ago

    Ok so all u people screaming for rabbonim to say something now they said what they think but your still screaming because they don’t agree with you so you never really cared what the gdolim have to say you just wanted they should agree with you! Or now you are going to be mevazeh talmeidei chachomim and say that they are wrong or worse not gedolim r”l!!!

    BaalMussar
    BaalMussar
    12 years ago

    LO SUGURU MIPNEI ISH this is your Torah opinion you are obligated to state it, no matter the backlash. My respect to this organization has been increased thousand fold. And it’s time to take HASHEM off from being for sale, every shnook with a computer is to decide what’s a Kiddush or Chilol Hashem.

    AYIDVOSTRACHT
    AYIDVOSTRACHT
    12 years ago

    The gaaved is concidered to be a moderate by the bdatz standards and he is against riots and most protests(do some research). Still he signed on to this proclamation. This shows that true Daas torah understands that we are under siege from the secular media and society as whole. He is not afraid to take a stand for the kedushah of klal yisrael.

    12 years ago

    No way Rav Moshe, Rav Yaakov,Rav Ruderman, Rav Pam, Rav Shlomo Zalmen, would have agreed with this drivel from Rav Moshe Shternboch and Rav Weiss. It is long overdue for the rabbonim who disagree with this to speak up and to speak up forcefully and publicly against this crumkeit. This is a serious problem because it is not only isolated to Bet Shemsh or Eretz Yisroel. We have Roshei Yeshiva and Rebbes in America as well who go along with this extremism. Besides the Rabbonim that need to speak out, the Baalei Batim who support this with their millions need to put their feet down.

    garyone
    garyone
    12 years ago

    FOLLOW THE MONEY$$$$$$$

    AYidela
    AYidela
    12 years ago

    I think its the same thing as we had by the hafguna’s for digging kvurim. As we all remember how the jewish weekly magazine Der Blatt wrote that Rabbi shternbuch (ravad) had a lot of pressure to stop sending ppl to be mocha and he said he will not stop cause its against the tora, a week later he stopped cause they got a message from the guverment if he doesn’t stop they will ban their hechsher in israel. And do you remember how they threw out that rabbi (I forgot his name) from the shchita cause he said it has problem’s and they need to fix it. Or they didn’t wanna rabbi mier branzdorfer’s son to be the ruv after his father ztz”l died cause they he was so strict as his father and they where scared from him. I think the same reason the satmar rabbi didn’t want his kehila should have a hechsher (cause look how hisachdes harabunim looks today) the same reason goes on in israel, when you had rabunim that wasn’t in for money just for kashres it was ok. But now they got some ppl that only want money. I’m not talking about the rabunim, I’m talking about the ppl around. That why all of this happen, like one day they say do this and one day they don’t do it cause it depands in the “MONEY”

    Reb Yid
    Reb Yid
    12 years ago

    First of all, the eida is not an organization as we know it. It’s a way of referring to the gedolim of eretz yisroel, and particularly yerushalayim. So of course it has no spokesman, it’s not really a single body. This is to distinguish it from the kashrus “division”, which is of course a well-run operation.

    Secondly, psak is only as good as the understanding of the metsius that goes into it. The rabbonim rely on askanim, who have their own personal interests, to tell them what’s going on.

    davida
    davida
    12 years ago

    knock it off guys. they are the daas torah. where is a letter from other rabonim that say the opposite. this is like the satmar ruv writing veoel moshe and other rabonim disagreed but couldn’t write a sefer to discredit his views

    qazxc
    qazxc
    12 years ago

    I wonder about Gd’s opinion of all this. Is He pleased with anyone involved in this mess? Is anyone concerned about His nachas ruach?

    AviKes
    AviKes
    12 years ago

    Two years is excessive for what he did? Maybe we can convince Giuliani to be mitgayer, make aliya and clean house here like he did in New York.

    AviKes
    AviKes
    12 years ago

    #39 , Rav Eliashiv, Rav Ovadia, Rav Metzger and Rav Lau all came out against them.

    RoshCham1
    RoshCham1
    12 years ago

     fjoyjudy MAYERFREUND

    Realy? most of the non charedim and cops are not jews? so most of the chayalim that are not charedi are goyim? You know what forget the outragous comment for a sec, where do you get your statistics on this information or are you following the Eida’s path and just pulling numbers out of the thin air? Are you for real or are you just trolling? I’m having a very hard time trying to figure this out, could be that your being sarcastic, yea thats it ill be Dan L’kaf zchus and say that your just being sarcastic.

    12 years ago

    This is truly disappointing! As one who considers himself as ” chareidi”, these Rabbonim do not represent me. Rabbi Horowitz has a petition on line regarding the chillul Hashem that is taking place in EY. I encourage everyone that feels the chilul Hashem should sign and encourage your Rabbonim to speak out. ILet the Eida Hacharedis know that they do not represent the majority of Chareidim that still believe in Ahavas Yisroel no matter what style of yarmulka or hat or neither of the above! ONLINE PETITION: http://www.unitedsilentmajority.org

    moshe1
    moshe1
    12 years ago

    COULD SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP ME…

    Mehadrin buses is a few years old it started after the chariedim made their own private bus company after being sued by Eged bus co. they came to an agreement that the chreidim will close their bus co and Eged will open Mehadrin buses.
    Now you have these liberal-left -feminist losers from other neighborhoods and trying to teach the chariedim what and how to to be losers like them.

    AND NOW “THEY” SHOULD TEACH THE CHREIDIM A LESSON IN AHAVAS YISREAL????

    12 years ago

    How I miss the Lubavitcher Rebbe zya!!!! The Rebbe had encouraged the old minhag as is printed in the siddur to say before davening shacaharis :Haraini Mekabel Alai Mitzvas Asai Shel Viahavta Liraiacha Kamoicha!

    Miguel
    Miguel
    12 years ago

    The onus is now on any rov or Rosh Hayeshiva with a congregation or followers to once and for all publicly denounce the eida and all of it’s followers. Otherwise the blood of your brothers is on your hands as well. The people who go off the derech because of things like this is your and our responsibility. I can certainy understand someone who is not well grounded hashkafawise (most people actually) seeign something like this and saying, this is not for me. Klal Yisrael! This is who your leaders are?! Ribbono shel olam! Stand up and take action! Implore your rabbonim to speak out! Hashem Yirachem.

    oiber-chacham
    oiber-chacham
    12 years ago

    i realy don’t know why we are all taking the AIDA HACHREIDIS so seriously ?,the fact is that they represent a very small percentage of the chareidi community in Jerusalem,they are not recognized by GER,BELZ,VIZNITS,and all the rest of the chasidishe courts that belong to the AGUDAH,because they have their own BEIS DIN,and of course they are not recognized by the so called YESHIVISH community,and neither does the SEFARDI community have anything to do with them,
    it is the TOLDOS AHRON and SATMAR and some of the BRESLEVER, and the NETUREI KARTA crazies whom they represent,basically they are completely irrelevant to the lives of the vast majority of the CHAREIDIM in Jerusalem,
    In reality what’s left of the AIDAH,is only an impressive multi million dollar HASHGACHA business.
    and with outrageous statements like this,they make themselves more and more irrelevant each and every day

    12 years ago

    I don’t get it.
    It seems that VIN did a pretty responsible thing in asking someone to attrmpt to authenticate the Kol Koreh in question.
    A whole article is written which basically says that the Rabbonim of the Eidah signed the Kol Koreh on condition that the parts that seemingly lent support to the Sikrikim were taken out.
    Tjis makes sense since everyone 5 year old boy in Yerushalayim knows that the Sikrikim do not get along with the wider B’datz.
    Then we have several dozen commenters condeming the Badatz for supporting the Sikrikim.
    It seems to me that all the commentors really have to read over the article.

    12 years ago

    As for Tinokes Shenishba.
    You all are aware that it is at best a machlokes if Frei Yidden in EY are considered in that category.
    Rav Shlomo Zlaman Aurbach zt”l (yes that one who was renowned for his Ahavas Yisroel for every jew) held that since Torah is so readily availible to anyone who wans to know it EY and they all are aware of the mitzvos the category of TS cannot be applied to them.
    But I am sure that many members of this board are qualified to argue with Rav Shlomo Zalman on Halachic matters.

    sechelhayusher
    sechelhayusher
    12 years ago

    as to all of you bashing of the leaders of eEidah, making them to low-ilfes people you can’t listen to there daas torah.
    to your info do you know that every rav that poskens choshen mishpat uses the psokem in 10 volume seforim of REB YAKOV BLAU, that almost every charedi mikvah in current days is built acccording to REB MEIR BRANSDOFERs psokim, biker cholim hospital and hatzolah yerushlayim was under supervission of REB MOSHE HALBERSTAM, tons of heimishe houses are filled with REB MOSHE STERBUCHs teshuvos as well as every halacha sefer that comes out quaots his words, every litvish yid in beis shemesh leans and depends on REB NUSEN KOPSHITZ, do you know who was rav in gur shtinbel in antwerp and poskened for all antwerp especially for the ger belz wiznitz and modern crowd not kanoim well thats REB TOVIA WEIS,
    SO GET YOUR FACTS WHO KLAL YISROEL CONSIDERS AS LOW LIFES OR GEDOLIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    brooklynjew
    brooklynjew
    12 years ago

    Being the last to comment here, I could clearly see that some of you havnt read the kol koreh properly…
    Let me explain: if you read carefully you will notice that there is nothing in there that we should disagree about, and here is why…
    It says that they the chilonim want to abolish the mehadrin buses which has run for a long time and that we should fight it…do any of you disagree? And if you do, then why? Why should one chiloni trouble maker who dosnt want to sit in the back be able to create a firestorm and be able to undo what has been running for years to the satisfaction of 99.9 percent of those passengers…
    #2 the statement that we are in exile and this is part of it, no disagreement there, we already know that as long as you have jews fighting extra stridengies in kedusha we are in galus indeed…
    #3 there is no mention of condoning spitting on people, which is a good thing…
    #4 the weissfish part was clearly disputed by some of the undersigned, and judging by how they have written it, you can be assured that this is what happened, a few askanim came in and told them that this weisfish is mamash a chushiva yungerman and is being thrown in jail for no reason, don’t forget the sikrikim group have no badges nor do they register as sikrikim, they are adults with backrounds from many groups etc. and to the average person the seem just a little overzealous, that’s all, but nothing of any danger, and this how this was presented to the rabunim…
    Most people are confused and do not distinguish what had happened here…
    #1 a irresponsible individual to say the least spit on a little girl,few months ago
    #2 people mainly youngsters demonstrate every day the modern orthodox school in their neighborhood, beit shemesh
    #3 sikrikim damage property and fight with people in mainly in yerushalayim meah shearim, as well as in bait shemesh
    #4 signs were put up in bait shemesh separating sidewalks in frum neiborhoods with consent of local community
    #5 thousands of charaidim travel the mehadrin segregated busses for past few years to the satisfaction of both men and women
    #6 chilonim took naama as a cover girl to incite againts everything chareidi, the busses, the signs,
    Where they went wrong is that, they have no right to fight segregated buses because of what happened as an isolated spitting event…
    Most important to remember:
    Rabbies of the eida hacharaidies, are enourmous talmidei chachamim as are other rabbies which they have a right to disagree with, and these eida rabbis would any day be m’kadesh shem shamayim and are moiser nefesh on any kitzoi she’ll yud, as any of our vin readers, so please put aside your anger and read between the lines…eizahu chacham hameivin davar mitich davar..besides even if we don’t understand, so be it, let yourself be m’vatel to daas torah, that dosnt say that you shouldn’t follow your own rabbis p’sak, only don’t talk against the very rabunim who in their merit our generation relies on… PLEASE PARDON MY ENGLISH my spell check was in a rush…thnx

    TmboT
    TmboT
    12 years ago

    How can “the Eida Chareidis has no spokesman and that anyone claiming such a position is misrepresenting things.”? If this is true, how would they annouce a genuine Kashrut problem?

    When a Kashrut Authority Licenses a restaurant, one of the things they do is look at if the owner is Shomer Shabbat. If the Eida are publically supporting people who are openly Chillul Shabbat (stone throwing, causing fires, endangering lives, etc) this must raise serious questions about the Kashrut standard levels of that Authority?

    12 years ago

    This thing about Rav Moshe zt”l psak is getting kinda ridiculous.
    Rav Moshe zt”l was one of the Gedolei Poskim in America.
    He paskened in America.
    B’H those who lived in America at the time were zoche to have someone like Rav Moshe live amongst them.
    However Rav Moshe did not pasken for EY and in no way Rav Moshe would have found it ridiculous that his psokim were being used in the context that people are attempting to use them.
    EY was zoche to GEdolei Poskim as well and in EY they go by the Gedolim who lived in and pakened for EY.

    12 years ago

    If it does not feel,sound,or smell right, it is not right. The proclamation from the Eda does not meet my smell test. Anyone with Daas Let alone Daas Torah would come to the same conclusion. Therefore I do not care how many seforim Rav Moshe Shternboch, Rav Tivia Weiss,Rav Kopshitz, ot any of these other rabbonim wrote, they are still wrong plain and simple. So as well is this entire meshugas of seperate seating on busses and seperate sidewalks.So as well these people with the long beards and payos shouting Pritza at women who walk by them on the street.etc.etc.etc. I say every day to Hashem Ata chonen Ladam Daas. I am sorry to say that it seems that lately Hashem is witholding daas from these rabbonim and their followers.