Israel – The Open House in Jerusalem announced on Monday that the city’s Pride Parade would take place on Thursday of next week, with the theme of “free love”. This year marks the parade’s seventh anniversary in Jerusalem, and it has become well-known for sparking annual controversy among the ultra-Orthodox communities in the city.
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One such protest rally took place on Monday, in the ultra-Orthodox neighborhood of Beit Israel. Rabbi David Batzri called on the participants in the rally to “be zealous towards the lord, and to hate those that fail and the evil that they create. Zeal is atonement for all of Israel.”
Rabbi Moshe Sternbuch, who has headed the fight against the Jerusalem parade during previous years and succeeded in sweeping much of the ultra-Orthodox community into the protests, also spoke at the rally in Beit Israel. This year, however, he had to make do with only the few dozen demonstrators present.
“I asked my rabbi: How were so many righteous men murdered during the Holocaust – because they did not protest,” Sternbuch called down from the balcony on which he stood. “Whoever does not protest is confessing with silence.”
He explained the reason for the parade to his followers: “The lord is testing us in this world and wants to see if we protest. If we don’t, there will be disasters. We are alone and they are many, but we are more in quality. They are evil criminals that have no place with the God of Israel.”
The Open House in Jerusalem announced on Monday that the city’s Pride Parade would take place on Thursday of next week, with the theme of “free love”. This year marks the parade’s seventh anniversary in Jerusalem, and it has become well-known for sparking annual controversy among the ultra-Orthodox communities in the city.
With all due respect to Rabbi Sternbuch’s comments,I dont believe anyone knows Daas Elyon in regard to the Kedoshim and we must be Mekabel the Milchama as “Gzeira He Milfaneia”.
Same as Churban Habayis and the assara harugay malchus.It behooves us to protest the Toava march with dignity and resolve not with what appears to me to be the utterances of smug self righteous musings.
Mordechai- The medrish does say that the reason why the Tzadikim were punished in the Churban Bayis was because they remained silent. Instead of protesting against the evils that were occuring, they were happy being a “Tzadik M’Peltz”
Is this the toiaiva march, approved by religious “frum” mayor Lupliansky?
It’s a Gemara “mideloi muchi shema mino deku nichu lei”
Mordechai the Tzadikim are daas elyon. “Hameharer achrei raboi keilu meharer achrei hashchinu” this is a Gemara. Every thing there is a chesbon somebody pays for every avlo done to another person. Most tragedies came because of aveiros bein odom lachveiro, even Yom Kippur dosn’t help. The Asoro Harege Malchus is written came to atone Mechirus Yosef.
So y don’t i hear rabbis protesting against our own toieivas? Namely the child molesters who have been protected by these carpetsweepers since the churban of WW2.
People need to understand that its no use with protests etc. What must be addressed is the fundemantal education of Jews in Israel. A kind word to a ‘chiloni’ goes alot further then a protest. Kol Hakavod to Chabad and Aish who have realized that the only way we have a furute is by being Mechanech Yidden of Yiddishkeit. That is our only hope!
Children in death camps suffered and died, but for nothing they had done. It is the ultimate conceit to claim to know the reason for the torture and destruction of our tehorim.
I think that we should make a list of all the possible reasons why the Churban Happened for example:
the Zionim
the Chassidim
the misnagdim
unnecessary machlokes betweem jews
any aveira you think someone else was over, and you were not
Not Listening to Gedolim
Listening to Gedolim
Do you get the idea?
11:19 even though there is a great need to educate, doesn’t mean that there is no need to be moicheh against these menuvalim. when our time comes to give a din v’cheshbon, when we will be asked why did you allow this chilul hashem, what are you going to answer? that chabad & aish were educating? in any case, these menuvalim are not at all interested in chabad/aish education. they are interested in legitimizing their own nevulois/toiaivois…
michoel
No reason to make a joke on such an issue I am sure that you had mishpocho that were in ww2
Good people were punnished for the sins of that DOR….
11:04 UNFORTUNATELY, the mayor Lupliansky has no power whatsoever. So don’t blame him.
VN: 11:10 Although they’re a terrible crime but they’re isolated incidences. There’s no reason to publicize these crimes by protesting. You can be sure that the Rabbonim are taking care of these problems in private.
This m’enivulim are responsible for all the Problebs Klal Yisroel have, its discracefull how any one can defend ther actions, :Casha’yourdin’ Yordin at le’mata. this the product of the Zianistic Chinuch, K’chol hagoim Lower then lowest goiem. Our M’edinala is a free country they have right to Publicly thumb ther dairty fingers on Hasem,
But g-d forbid if charaidim will protest they will be thrown into jail with no rights to the basic treatments allowd bi law.
If the mayor has no power to block it, that does not give him the ok to sign the permit, if he’s forced to do so by the Israeli court, the Torah requires him to step down and not have on his fingers this all chazerei and filth.
Now that I think of it, even from a wholly-secular point of view, it’s suicidal to have these public parades of abomination and perversion in the heart of the Moslem Middle East.
The Israelis are surrounded on all sides by religious Moslem Arabs who will expliot these parades to the fullest to prove that the Jews in Israel are morally corrupt and no longer have any claim to the Holy Land or Chas VeSholom, to even life itself.
“Liberalism is a mental disease”–Michael Savage
WE should also ask, why the M.M.
(molesters and mosrim) are swept under the carpet amongs us? Now thats a major chilul Hashem!
Al of our tzuris including Bayis Sheyni was because tzadikim and gedolim were silent regarding unacceptable public humiliation/behaivior.
Why is it that copy centers are shooting out Kol Korehs about everything and anything however when it comes to fundimental gras roots decency,education and protection of our children.
I think that a Kosher cell phone is great for kids, but like years ago if a yeshiva buchur R’L wants to sneak a look at the dirty magazines he will be creative enough to do it.
It is time to spend more time with our children in the home be good parents show by example.
Anyone who was killed in Europe died there because the Gedolim DID protest against leaving Europe and the people DID listen. Hashem Yerochem.
Those Chazals’ that explain reasons for the churban, are not conclusive. In fact all Midrashim explaining the “Aseirie Huregeh Malchus” are contradictory! All Midrashim explaining the Churban of the Bayis Rishon and the Bayis Sheini are loaded with conradictions!
No one even our Holy Tanaim didn’t have any ideas …. they only attempted to figure out the cheshbon of the Ribono Shel Olom.
On the Bayis Sheni the gemarrah says that since there wasn’t Sfichas Domim, and Znus and Avodah Zorah, so it had to be by elimination, Sinas Chinum. This was only a guess, but not conclusive!
No one, not even Moshe Rabeinu knew or knows the ways of the Ribono Shel Olom! Moshe in fact asked H “Haarinu Nu Kevoidcha” He wanted to know, H only showed him the Kesher Shel Tefillin. He never found out!
For someone to come along and give the reason for the Holocaust is very problematic, since it makes it sound that he knows more than the Moishe Raibienu
when will the Rabbonim come out against the child molesters in our community. It is easy to go against the cheelonim however let’s see a gadol take care of our internal problems first
Just_A_Thought SAID
VN: 11:10 Although they’re a terrible crime but they’re isolated incidences. There’s no reason to publicize these crimes by protesting. You can be sure that the Rabbonim are taking care of these problems in private.
06-17-2008 – 12:12 PM
Yes indeed, the Rabonim are taking care-YES, 25 years of info on kolko and where is the taking care, where was it???????
to “just a thought”: if lupliansky has no power why do we need a frum mayor?
Dovid,
to suggest that the holocaust occurred because of the sins of that DOR is arrogant and insensitive. The reasons for the Holocaust are beyond the scope of human understanding.
The Lubavitcher Rebbe, ZT’L rejected all theological explanations for the Holocaust:
“What greater conceit — the Rebbe would say — and what greater heartlessness, can there be than to give a “reason” for the death and torture of millions of innocent men, women and children? Can we presume to assume that an explanation small enough to fit inside the finite bounds of human reason can explain a horror of such magnitude? We can only concede that there are things that lie beyond the finite ken of the human mind. Echoing his father-in-law, the Rebbe would say: It is not my task to justify G-d on this. Only G-d Himself can answer for what He allowed to happen. And the only answer we will accept, said the Rebbe, is the immediate and complete Redemption that will forever banish evil from the face of the earth and bring to light the intrinsic goodness and perfection of G-d’s creation.”
Seems to me that there is a difference between why there was a Holocaust (which only 1 Bashefer knows the reason) & “How were so many righteous men murdered during the Holocaust”? which some gedolei yisroel may give their take on.
as far as the reason why the gedolim don’t protest our “own toiaivos”? the answer may be that while our own molesters etc., know that what they’re doing is wrong & so does everyone else, but these menuvalim are trying to convince the world (& themselves?) that there’s nothing wrong in what they’re doing. For that there is a need to be moicheh.
Anon 1:4 said: “when will the Rabbonim come out against the child molesters in our community. It is easy to go against the cheelonim however let’s see a gadol take care of our internal problems first”
There is no reason to make public protests and droshos against molesters, (besides the fact that in many cities there are big droshos being delivered on a steady basis to warn parents about the dangers on the street, and to send a message to the pervs that there is a watching eye on them) cause every single person – including the pervs know exactly how wrong it is legally, ethically and by torah. the only things left to do is, that teachers and mechanchim have to teach the students from the very young and small age about the severeness of indecent acts, and the heavy penalties and onshim involved, and to be aware of those sickos out there. and this is being done (at least by most mechanchim)..
the second and more crucial part is, “trouble shooting”, to address the situation when an incident of molesting etc. happens. and as an askan (not necessarily in kedusha and tznius issues) I can tell you, rabbonim, rabayim, principals and askonim are very busy with these issues of discipline and addressing really hard the cases of accused molesters in the community, and yes, in more than one instance the perp was arrested by the advice of the askonim with the fullest haskoma of the rabbonim. and NO! nobody is sweeping these stories under the carpet, no rabbinical authority would shield or protect a pedophile! there may have been some isolated cases that the molesters managed to fool around their superiors and principals convincing them of their innocence, when they were in fact a danger to the kids, and this is also very wrong and should’nt happen.
but as a general fact, each teacher and mechanech and “plain civilians” know, that being caught with indecency, would carry the maximum damage to them and their family, and will bring the most severe punishment to them, because of the way these cases are being handled by the rabbonim and chinuch authorities.
The Minchas Eluzar z’cuso yagen alenu…riled about the chilonim..against the “treifina medina” known as America, and used to say “communistin,tzionistin,mizrachistin and agudistin” will destroy the world..
NO TRUER WORDS WERE EVER SPOKEN
“Anyone who was killed in Europe died there because the Gedolim DID protest against leaving Europe and the people DID listen. Hashem Yerochem.”
Some Gedolim protested some didn’t some listened & perished some didn’t & were saved & vice versa. When there is a Gezeira RL even the biggest Gedolim holy eyes are blocked from seeing the right things. Look at Mechiras Yosef what the Holy Shvatim did. As written Yakov had to go down to Mitzraim shackled. The R S O twisted the whole story he should go down bekovid. So stop this nonsense about the Gedolim and the Holacust. My mother has a tatoo on her arm from aushwitz I never heard her blame the gedolim or any body it was a Gezira min hasomayim.
P.S. BTW some people didn’t listen & left by boat & were torpedoed on the way by the Germans YSV.
Like my grandfather, a European Rov, said after he lost his eldest son in Auschwitz, sais, “Men veis nisht”.
interesting to se how all the bloggers here ne-veeim , false ne- veem but never the less ne-veem. How can anyone here say for certain why we had ww2, or why any bad incident took place . its sheker and u are mocking the torah and hashem . only hashem knows why he did things.
I don’t think that Rabbi Sternbach was saying that that was the makeh u’patish. He also said it was why the tzadikim suffered not why the Holocaust happened. It probably isn’t the smartest thing to say in the face of the people whose mental capacity is reduced to blogging, but he did. Rav Shach zt”l also said some things that were misconstrued for Daas Elyon. The gemarah says the churban bayis was for many different things. I don’t think Rabbi Sternbach was trying to say Daas Elyon as much as he was saying he was affraid from his din v’cheshbon if he doesn’t protest. Also, there is a story from the Chofetz Chaim about his protesting something solely on the grounds as to not have it asked of him in the din v’cheshbon why he remained silent. Of course the issue is how does one say someone, who can put you in his back pocket and make you look like an am haaretz, did something wrong. if they were here, i am sure they could defend themselves. However, Rabbi Sternbach is probably saying that were he to be there and if he was being punnished not through issurim shel ahava and not on behalf of klal yisroel, he, Rabbi Sternbach, would be punnished if he didn’t speak out. The problem is people get aroused in their commitment to the cause that they don’t say clearly what they mean. Now, if he says that people died in Askelon because of Shas being in he government and UTJ trying to squirm in and the back room deals these politicians make, he probably would be more correct. Furthermore, if he now calls a press conference to say he didn’t say it or that the bochurim from rav kook’s yeshiva……then you know he said it and meant wrong and got his head handed to him by his money people. However, I realy can’t find anything really wrong in what he said and I am not his biggest fan. Now, if you want to talk about Shas, UTJ, NRP, Chacham Ovadia Yosef, R’ Dan Segal, child molestors, Monsey etc. I am open.
The Torah warned us twice in the tochochos of the consequenses of not following Hashem and His Torah.We all must improve ourselves and leave the running of the world to HKB”H.We must protest against public display of immorality and we must be mekareiv the innocent with love.We are all role models and all our behavior is being watched by our observers at all times.No one has THE answer.
To Daas Elyon:
You write:
“It probably isn’t the smartest thing to say in the face of the people whose mental capacity is reduced to blogging, but he did.”
1) I think that you didn’t do R” Sterbach shlitah any good by denigrating bloggers.
2)When a Godol says something out of his mouth it is his obligation to think twice how the “Hamoin Am” (which includes those “whose mental capacity is reduced to blogging”)are going to react, so that these people are not “nichshal” of being “mevaza” a Talmud Chochom.
3) No one knows, or ever knew the ways of the Ribono Shel Olom, that includes everyone from Moishe Rabeinu, Tanaim, Amoriem and including R’ Sterbach Shlitah,.
4) All we know is that when the Ribono Shel Olom sends pogroms and Holocausts etc., we all have to examine our individual and collective ways and do genuine Teshuvah.
May the RBS”O send us an immediate yeshuah!
no one understands the holocaust,as it defies any reasoning.
what about the 1,500,000 children,murdered?
sternbuch knows himself,he does not know.
you should not be fooled by his statements,that he believes,in them.
the churbanhabayis,is recorded in history as a revolution,against the romans,but the holocaust,by the deutchen yimach shmom,is not comprehensible.
remember,the other nations,were standing by.
look in ohrhchaim,hkokdosh, behar possuk kof hei,
where he admonishes gedoilei yisroel,for not promoting to move to israel,and be close to the table of their father,and leading a torah life.
but the reason for the holocaust stays unanswered.
a satmar
Just_A_Thought Says:
comments – arrow VN: 11:10 Although they’re a terrible crime but they’re isolated incidences. There’s no reason to publicize these crimes by protesting. You can be sure that the Rabbonim are taking care of these problems in private.
The only thing the Rabbonim are doing is trying to sweep it under the rug and keep it quiet. The Rabbonim will protect the molester and threatening the victim. This has been documented and proven over and over. The only time they will do anything to thye molesters is when it is publicly exposed. Just like what happened with the church.
as far as your statement is concerned “isolated incidences” It seems just the opposite is true and might even be higher in the Orthodox then in the secular society. You could put you head in the sand if you want, just like our Rabbonim do.
like i told my kooky hebrew teacher [ms weiss/david] who said the same thing: shut up.
The frum community has to become more sophisticated and stop portraying the image of wild-eyed fundamentalists who are salivating and throwing stones all the time.
There are better ways of protesting than street demonstrations. Baruch Marzel was on the ball when he followed up the toeiva rally last year with a “protest” by cows and goats in the streets. This kind of leitzanusa d’gilui arayos is far more effective than the other kind of demonstrations.
Imagine if a day before the toeiva demonstration this year, the frum hold a “demonstration” supporting marriage rights for animals with cows, goats and sheep parading in the street and accompanied by signs that say “Why can only humans marry? Animal rights now!” This would get across the frum’s contempt much more while upholding our dignity.
Unfortunately not, the Knesset would probably approve the marriage rights for cows and goats and then someone would file a discrimination suit on behalf of pigs and dogs. I believe a compromise would be the best option. They should be allowed to march anywhere they want through east Jerusalem. This will show our tolerance and desire to share cultural advances with our Moslem cousins. Barring that, I would suggest people who live in the area to check out “spud gun” on youtube.com cheap, effective, non lethal.