Jerusalem – The ultra-Orthodox community has come up with a response to the growing popularity of Israel’s organ donor, or Adi cards. The community has issued a new card called a “life card” which expressed its holders’ wish not to donate organs.
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The new card says “I do not give my permission to take from me, not in life nor in death, and organ or part of my body for any purpose.”
The initiative came after the organ donor law, intended to regulate organ donations in compliance with Jewish law in cases of brain and respiratory death, was approved by the Knesset in March.
Shmuel Peppenheim, a spokesman for the ultra-Orthodox community in Israel, said “we are promoting this card these days. We want to expand into the general public, and we know that all of Israel is loyal to the Torah and everyone wants to live and die as a Jew should live and die.”
Sources within the ultra-Orthodox community said today that organ donation cards were actually a “method to steal organs from helpless people.” The community is urging everyone to sign a “life card” and in the event of brain death, not to donate anything but simply pray for a miracle.
MK Avraham Ravitz (United Torah Judaism) said today that even the Adi organ donor card contains a clause that says that family members can consult with a rabbi of their choice. “There is a real debate regarding the exact time of death… There are instances when the heart is still beating but there is no rain. It isn’t always unequivocal.”
Does this card mean that the possesor won’t accept donated organs as well?
What does beating heart have to do with a rain? Fact is, since the law was passed there have been many people who’s lives have been saved and enhanced with these donations. Dignity for the body is one thing, hatzla of a living neshoma is sometheng else…The orthdox/yeshivish community should be brave enough to redefine death in light of medical knowledge, and come into the 21st century, instead of the 17th century.
Ben, Halacha does not conform to your sense of fairness.
Moishe M
That was a typo it was brain not rain.
Do you say Ani Mamin? the Torah does not change with the centuries….
Lo sehai torah acheres
killing someone to save someone else is that muter?
Moishe, your comment is offensive. Isn’t it funny how medical knowledge evolves. Today they are certain that coffee is bad for you. 5 years ago it was good for you and five years before that it was bad for you. Same thing with wine. What if tomorrow they come out with a machine that can detect brain waves previously undetected. Would you then admit that what has been happening was nothing short of murder, or would you say that they were acting correctly based on the knowledge they had, so now this new machine should be the judge of life. Science is not a science.
This is just a publicity stunt, intended to aggrandize themselves.
The organ donation program in EY is the most careful and conscientious in the entire civilzed world. To even suggest that they would simply “take” an organ without permission is a blood libel.
What a Chillul Hashem!
Here is the rest of the article quoted above:
When an approved doctor sets the moment of death – after which the patient can be disconnected from life support devices and organs may be removed for transplant – he must inform the family of the patient’s lower-brain-death status. The family is entitled to receive all documentation and to consult with a clergyman before deciding whether to give organs. If accepting lower-brain death is regarded as forbidden by the patient according to information provided by the family, the ventilator will not be disconnected until the patient’s heart stops beating.
well just don’t be surprised or angry if the time comes when surgeons refuse to peform transplants for people who have those cards.
The Israelis have the worst record of Nivul Hameis of any “civilized” country in the modern world. I wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw Ariel Sharon (speaking of brain dead, why don’t they take from him?)
# Moishe Says:
comments – arrow This is just a publicity stunt, intended to aggrandize themselves.
The organ donation program in EY is the most careful and conscientious in the entire civilzed world. To even suggest that they would simply “take” an organ without permission is a blood libel.
What a Chillul Hashem!
08-06-2008 – 10:24 AM
————
Moshe – Are you smoking crack???!!!
we jews are always on the good side cant give thats because he is alive we could take because we have to save our selve by the way everthing will be solved when they will be able to do brain transplants
any honest neuro doctor will tell you that there are many unknowns in regards to the brain. just because someone is unresponsive does not mean he’s “brain dead”.
Are the Rabbonim not going to take organs?give me a break!they will be the first ones to find a heter when their grandchilds life is at stake…and so they should do..for all of klal israels life..find a heter not a chumrah…they are available…vechai bohem..ever heared of that?
Ani Ma’amin does not preclude the FACT that Halacha has changed and needs to conform to new situations all the time. Learn some history, please. That is what makes the Torah eternal and infinite….The fact that Torah is flexible to deal with any situations….To say that halacha does not change, and hasn’t changed, is a sign that your EEG is flat. Consider a donation.
This is a terrible decision. Please look at this from the perspective of the non-ultra orthodox community in Israel. Currently, the ultra orthodox refuse to serve in the military but expect rqual protection from it. The refuse to donate organs but would certainly accept them from others. They berate the non religious government, but gladly accept government assistant checks. This is not something that can continue much longer. I understand that halacha can not be breached just to make a better neighbor. However, it does not appear that the ultra-orthodox are making any effort to FIND ways that they can contribue to the greater Israeli community. True SOME learn all day and torah protects the world, but what is the average ultra orthodox person contributing? I will try to remain open minded to anyone who cares to respond
To ABC, who wrote, “Moshe – Are you smoking crack???!!!.”
Thank You for your highly informative and incisive response.
I stand by what I wrote.
Not only does the Israeli system have the most safeguards in the civilized world, but it is endorsed by many great Rabbanim, Rav Ovadiah Yosef for instance.
It is time to stop the CHillul Hashem. This is driving people away from Torah, from both within and without the Torah camps. The problem is the Torah world is so insulated and isolated and the children are kept so ignorant, they have no idea what is going outside of the daled amos and they have no idea how to act. Why do you think so many are going off the derech?
Moishe M
The Torah and Halacha are eternal BECAUSE it is not flexible.
The Torah was written thousands of years ago and it is so deep and broad that it covers all future contingencies.
Reform and Conservative Judaism conform to the times, that is why there are virtually no 3rd generation reform or conservative Jews.
It’s funny how people Quote halacha.1st of all organ donation is not a cut and dry thing at all it’s taboo. There is such controversy it is not from the Torah not to donate your parts once your dead and even alive!The same Torah tells us saving one person is like saving all. Whats the difference if you donate 1 of your kidneys to your family member or anyone while your alive
or if you donate a body part of someone who just passed? To think that when we are told not to desecrate a dead body it could be misconstrude as not to donate. To think people say that when Moshiach comes those who donated organs will be missing, I hate to give the science lesson here but bodies decompose in the ground there ain’t no organ left at the end of the year!!
There are gedolim who support organ donation. and each person SHOULD research and learn ALL aspects and sides of this issue it is a huge misunderstood halacha in our community!
To Yachtzel:
“Brain Death” has nothing to do with merely being “unresponsive.”
It has to do with complete, irreversible cessation of blood flow to the lower part of the brain. This means that the brain, deprived of blood and thereby oxygen, begins to break down and turn into soup. Ariel Sharon is not in that condition.
Never in recorded history has a properly diagnosed patient “come back to life.” All cases you hear about of “miracles” are do to hasty decisions by eager doctors who rushed into declaring someone brain dead before the proper tests.
The procedure in EY is the most careful in the world and this cannot happen there, given all the safeguards and the number of people who must sign off.
Aside from this, no one is being forced to donate, so there is no reason other than a burning desire to be Mechallel Hashem that anyone would distribute the “I refuse” cards.
With that kind of selfish attitude, religious Jews who need transplants themselves should not hold out any hope.
the secular israeli gvmt. gladly taxes the ultra orthodox and ets not forget the UO have an avreage of 5 to 10 kids now figure how much food gas utilities petrol and what not they will SPEND “and alot of these taxes go to secular hads wouold you say it is wrong to benefit somewhat of that back… you have to be very narow minded to comment the way you do showing total ignorance to what is going on in the real world. look at how many innovations,schools,businesses, real estate, even govmt jobs are held by UO’s youo have to be kidding me that they only take take take
one more thing for you to ponder: who is leaving israel in droves? the UO ? in the last 10 years 100.000 left for USA and another 100.000 to other places FAR AWAY FROM israel, without intending to return. now were do most UO yeshiva boys go to learn, and recently married coupels.. you guessed it ISRAEL
so please stop talking out out of ignorance and pretend you researched this matter…
Sorry Charlie….Torah is always on the move…How can you say the Torah stands still? We have 2500 blat in Gemorrah that is full of machlokes…That means, even 2000 years ago, there was MUCH controversy as to what Torah Shel Ba’al Peh was all about…Let’s not hear any more nonsense that the TORAH given 3,000 years ago doesn’t change….Doesn’t change from what?…Even the Ta’naim couldn’t answer that question….I still recommend that you donate your brain, your eeg is flat.
The ultra-Orthodox community has come up with a response to …. organ donor, or Adi cards. The community has issued a new card called a “life card” which expressed its holders’ wish not to donate organs.
The appropriate response is, to create a National Data Base of people with Adi cards and “life cards”, and when an organ is needed Adi card holders get preference, then people without any cards and at last people with “life cards”. I think that will help to solve the problem.
H.