Crown Heights, NY – NYPD Search Of A New ‘United Patrol’ Due To Conflict Between Shomrim and Shmira, Rejected

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    Brooklyn, NY – After continues controversy and infighting between Crown Heights Shomrim and Shmira Patrol units, the local precinct was taking applications to create a new united patrol organization.

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    Due to the recent conflict between the two patrol factions in crown heights, Shmira and Shomrim, the NYPD 71st Precinct has started working on creating a new Community Citizen’s Patrol, under the NYPD’s guide.

    Captain Peter Simonetti who has replaced Frank Vega as the new Deputy Inspector of the 71st Pct, has asked both Shomrim and Shmira members to join in efforts to unite as one. Some members from the Crown Heights Jewish community have volunteered to join the patrol, were registered and soon will be issued official identification cards.

    Sources tell VIN News that Shmira said yes to the request of 71st Pct CO, but Shomrim has declined working together as one team, leaving the whole plan to work as a united group hanging.


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    42 Comments
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    oy vei
    oy vei
    15 years ago

    maybe they do that with BOBOV/VISHNITZ/SATMER….???

    mccain palin 08
    mccain palin 08
    15 years ago

    oy veyz mir

    Yoile
    Yoile
    15 years ago

    Hey guys when it comes to security matters you break bread. When it comes to protecting another jew you dont see colors or politics…So guys get real sit down iron out,shake hands and break bread.

    anon
    anon
    15 years ago

    I agree with Yoile.

    JBC
    JBC
    15 years ago

    Gee. I wonder if they will work with the African American Community on this. That would definitaly help curtail some of the tensions. What I don’t understand is why we need shomrim, shmira, KCSP, Ect.. If people want to help police their community, join the Auxilary Police. Many frum people have. U work when u want and ur working with the Police. Oh wait, then U don’t get to have a radio and a buffed out car, which leads me to question why do people really join?

    Mendy
    Mendy
    15 years ago

    Henie matov umanaim sheves achim gam yachdov!

    Oiberchochom
    Oiberchochom
    15 years ago

    Why don’t they (the NYPD or NYC Council) ban multiple patrols in one precinct. Especially those that limit membership to certain ethnicity or congregations? There should be only one recognized patrol per precinct working in conjunction with the NYPD, open to all local residents.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    im a little upset at this story, you just say that one side says yes and the other says no

    you dont say why!

    i also wonder how inspecter Simoneti is even thinking about working with shmira, the ones who are responsible for the beating of andru charls

    also i dont blame shomrim for not being intrested in joining the other patrole shomrim is part of a network around all jewish comunities in brooklyn who each have their own Buffer problems….

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Part of the problem is the NYPD. They don’t always take police reports or like to patrol certain areas, like alleyways. They also don’t care about drugs in the community, but neither do the patrols. The police are too involved in issuing tickets to care about policing.

    Yiddel
    Yiddel
    15 years ago

    Sad to say, but BH the new Inspector doesn’t want to deal with the infighting so there will only be one Security Patrol Group. If one side doesn’t want to join what the NYPD has to offer then it’s obvious who the problem was. Regardless, now that there is one patrol that will work in conjunction with NYPD to protect the community your headline is misleading since it was accepted by those that are willing to put their differences aside and protect the community now.

    Yiddel
    Yiddel
    15 years ago

    Sad to say that it had to be a goy, but BH…..

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Yiddel i find what you say intresting,

    first of all their is not all of a sudden 1 patrol

    that will work with nypd Shomrim are still around and they have just like you and me citizins rights.

    who has what problem, who says their is a problem i think its great that shmira joined the nypd finally some one will take proper a full responsibility for their actions, no more funny buissness…

    Rugged Individualist
    Rugged Individualist
    15 years ago

    Police do not have the same interest as residents. Shomrim have been shown to reduce crime — and catch bad guys. The response time and ability to spread out are FAR more effective than the police could ever be.

    So what is the harm in multiple patrols, really? Is it that police have more criminals to arrest, crimes to report, and work to do? Cry me a river.

    I am all for achdus, but not all community organizations work the same way. Some patrol. Others respond. Merging these two means you lose half your volunteers.

    yossi
    yossi
    15 years ago

    Let me tell you the facts. Shmira was formed in mid 1960’s in 1997 the name was changed to shomrim,in 1999 it was changed back to Shmira.

    Shomrim coordinators (not the members)have been at odds with shmira ever since they were voted out in oct 1999. A vote was done and the majority of the members said they wanted new coordinators. Ever since then the shmira was run under new coordinators, under the vaad and rabbanim of the community, and supported by its residents.

    Due to the escalation of fighting by the shomrim coordinators, shmira has tried many times thru many leaders to have shomrim sit and settle their grievences. It was and is the position of shomrim coordinators to not settle their issues and cause a chilul hashem to our community. That is their choice and they must take responsibilty for their action.

    To everyone involved with shmira and shomrim, from dov hikind, to the heads of CH hatzalah, to the vaad, and many others it was proven that Shomrim does not want to settle their grievences, instead they prefer to fight, That’s their choice! It is clear to everyone who is not involved, but reads all the news about shmira and shomrim, that action speaks louder then words, and shmira is interested in reducing the fighting and arguments in the community, not shomrim!.

    The police made an offer, let all the coordinators from both shmira and shomrim step aside, and let all the members come together to one patrol, no fights, no arguments, and to do the right thing for the community. Again, shmira stepped forward and said yes, and shomrim said no.

    Life is short, and we all have a din vachshbon to answer too, there are close to 20,000 neshamos to protect, and thatis whats most important!.

    I was the coordinator of shmira, for 10 great years, I am proud and humbled to have served my community, now, I pass on the mantle to others to carry on this great and vital service to a community so deserving.

    I commend Inspector Simonetti, and the police commissioner for their involvement, and I thank all the CH leaders, dov hikind, and all others who I have worked with and their efforts in helping Crown Heights turn a page for the better.

    May we all be zoiche to see the day when there are no more fights, and our services are no longer needed.

    Yossi

    Yiddel
    Yiddel
    15 years ago

    Obviously the reason why there were 2 groups, Shomrim and Shmira wasn’t because Crown Heights is so big or the need for a patrol so large that there were 2 patrol organizations. It was because there was a problem and people weren’t getting along so a second one was started. What the problem was is irrelevant. When you have 2 groups in the same community doing patrols especially in this situation the issues will become aggravated as well as the community loses out.

    As far as their still being a Shomrim patrol and one that works directly with the NYPD I’m assuming that Shomrim will simply fold. They don’t work under the auspices of the NYPD and they are, in large part the reason that we came to this junction and that’s now clearly obvious to the NYPD. They will simply be ignored till they are gone. Its not like there weren’t practically begged by community leaders, Kelly, Vega, Simonetti and the heads of Shmira to make peace for the sake of the community. Thank G-D they didn’t because this end result is much better.

    i agree
    i agree
    15 years ago

    Why should Shomrim have to join, they exist on their own, they patrol the neighborhood, help out people in need.

    they have coordinators in boro-park Williamsburg and flat-bush and they happen to work very nicely and do a fantastic job.

    Yiddel
    Yiddel
    15 years ago

    In response to I agree,

    You don’t seem to be paying attention. The issues / problems that all of the above mentioned people have been trying to solve for the last few years is the fact that with 2 patrols working the way these 2 did the community loses out. And Shmira was willing to dissolve for the sake of the community Shomrim STILL clearly does not. Need I say more?

    As far as them helping people, they (Physically) hurt community members more then they helped.

    And whatever relationship the coordinators of Shomrim do or don’t have with other communities or members of them is completely irrelevant in regards to this issue.

    CHAIM YOSELLE
    CHAIM YOSELLE
    15 years ago

    WILLIAMSBURG AND CROWN HEIGHTS SHOMRIM SHOULD MERGE,,ITS SO CLOSE NOW ALREADY. We caught a perp on Lafayete and Bedford. from here to CH is a stone throw….It would save alot of extra duplicate resources ..Williamsburg & Crown height should join

    emes
    emes
    15 years ago

    people who are’nt members of a civilian patrol, or don’t know the inside story … should have no say in this matter !! people involved who intrested in saving lifes and /or money & by keeping the neighborhood crime free thru going out patroling etc. only they may have a say in this & they should decide “”al pi torah”” what’s in the best interest of the WHOLE COMMUNITY but only with the EMES

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    hey yossi you speak well

    except you changed one thing from the truth

    the split happaned after the current coordinators of shomrim were told to vote to get out. the curernt shmira was opened by those same guys who got kicked out are the curernt coodinators of today. the reson they opened is bc they were upset and wanted to out do and shut down shomrim and have bean doing everything they can since

    to date: they have not, nor will they ever

    shomrim is made up of people who car and will never stop caring, trying to bring bad light to what they do, or negitive feelings about how they have no intrest in making peopce is wrong and stupid

    and all you loose by trying to join forses is having to make the shomrim coordinators speak out hy they wont make pease

    so its up to you, if you keep pressing the isssue and you keep going out of your way to make it public in order to have people stop asking for help it aint gona work and your building your own grve

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Sounds like the Aharonis,and Zalmans,in Williamsburg.

    Everybody is busy with Mi B’rosh,and cloaks it in altruistic matters,with what is good for the Community.

    It is politics as usual,and probably some money down the road.

    CH resident
    CH resident
    15 years ago

    it seems as though the author of this article and most of he people who’ve commented don’t really know much about the history of Shomrim or Shmira, (except for Yossi who sounds very biased).

    It is not in the best interest of Shomrim to work under the police. Shmira on the other hand did some major mess up and is willing to bend any direction to make themselves look good.



    I myself do not take side, I strongly beleive that competition is great for the community.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    As a former resident of Crown Heights, I personally witnessed Shomrim massering on another Yid. I figured I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt. However, There was too many stories in the same manner.

    I hope that the people of Crown Heights know the full story, and supports a group that doesn’t care about wearing the uniform. The truth shall set us free.

    Kesivah VE’Chasima Tovah, and peace to all.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    The Crown Heights shomrim disrespected the late Rabbi Marlow ZTL. I wish they have the heart to ask for forgiveness. This is one of the reasons for their breakup.

    Shmira has tried very-hard to make peace, but since Shomrim of Crown Heights gets attention support from other neighborhood Shomrims, they are not interested in peace! Why? They consider themselves as part of the big Shomrim family. which means, a big ego boost for them so why should they lower themselves to a small humble group that doesn’t have such fancy jackets as them.

    Bottom line all other shomrims have a stake in preventing peace from coming their-way, BP Flatbush & Williamsburg Shomrim coordinators, please help Crown Heights you are the only people which can get CH shomrim to make peace, Shmira wants peace.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    This following comment was written by Yossi Stern who is the director of CH Shmira and I found this comment on a Shmira article on a Chabad website a few months ago.

    To all the readers,

    Shmira has a relentless job in protecting the Community residents and their homes. The Shmira members cannot afford to pause and spend time on the politics of Shmira and Shomrim. The politics are left to those that love to stand by the side never help, but only criticize.

    The Shomrim members must make a decision whether they want to make a difference in this community or not. Every person will have a din V’cheshbon, and each of us must answer at the end of the day whether we made a difference for the better or for the worse.

    Shmira has promised to put several Shmira patrol cars on the streets, and we did it! patrolling every night, deterring crime, and assisting the police in arrests.

    The Shmira organization, we will help anyone at any time in any situation pertaining to the community , its residents, and the security issues!

    Shmira thanks the entire community for its support, and we continue to count on the community for its continued support.

    For the record, i am putting this offer on the table, should anyone succeed in getting the Members of Shomrim to work with Shmira, to work in a unified manner for the interest of peace, and achdus, we will come to the table. Until such time we the members of Shmira will be there when you need us most. Shmira Hotline 718-221-0303.

    SHOMRIM FAN
    SHOMRIM FAN
    15 years ago

    HOW CAN SOME ONE FORCE ANOTHER TO PORTAL WITH SOME ONE HE DISLIKES (FOR WHAT EVER REASON IT MAY BE)?

    IF AN NYPD OFFICER DOES NOT WANT TO PATROL WITH A FELLOW OFFICER IT IS HIS RIGHT TO REQUEST THAT (AND HE CAN NOT BE FORCED TO DO SO).

    THE PEOPLE (IN THE COMMUNITY) HAVE THE G-D GIVEN RIGHT OF “FREE CHOICE”, WE CAN CALL WHO EVER WE WANT FOR HELP, WHY ARE THERE PEOPLE TRYING TO DICTATE WHO I CAN CALL AND WHEN, IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!

    shmira WAS IN THE PITS LIKE A CHICKEN WITH OUT A HEAD AND A FISH WITH OUT WATER, OF COURSE THEY TOOK ANY OFFER THAT CAME THEIR WAY. IT’S CALLED DESPERATION!

    SHOMRIM IS A STRONG AND GROWING ORGANIZATION (GROWING EVERY DAY FROM STRENGTH TO STRENGTH) WHY SHOULD THEY JOIN A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ARE CRIMINALS AND SCAMMERS WHO DON’T GIVE A FLYING HOOT ABOUT ANYBODY ELSE BESIDES THEMSELVES. BESIDES THAT THOSE SAME PEOPLE (shmira) WERE THROWN OUT OF THE ORIGINAL SHMIRA (WHICH IS NOW SHOMRIM) FOR BEING WHO THEY ARE. NOW THEY MUST JOIN? SHOMRIM DOES NOT NEED THAT! THE COMMUNITY DOES NOT NEED THAT! SHOMRIM AND THE COMMUNITY ARE DOING JUST FINE!

    IF shmira CARE SOOOO MUCH, LET THEM US THEIR G-D GIVEN RIGHT TO SHOT THEMSELVES DOWN 9AND LET SHOMRIM DO THE GREAT WORK THEY DO).

    SHOMRIM HAS ALWAYS AND STILL WORKS WITH NYPD.

    THE ARABS ALSO “SAY” “TALK” ABOUT “PEACE”. DOES ANYBODY TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY?

    IS THERE A גבול (a limit) TO DOING חסד (kindness)?.

    HOW LONG HAS THE NEW INSPECTOR BEEN IN CROWN HEIGHTS TO BE ABLE TO DETERMINE WHATS WHAT AND WHO’S WHO?

    AFTER BEING HERE FOR 3 WEEKS WHICH 2 OF THOSE HE TOOK A VACATION HE WAS ABLE TO COME TO THIS CONCLUSION????????

    SHOMRIM IS SHOMRIM AND WILL ALWAYS BE SHOMRIM,

    YOU DON’T NEED A SPECIAL ID OR ANY RECOGNITION FROM ANY BODY BESIDES G-D TO HELP ANOTHER JEW.

    ALL YOU NEED IS THE TRUE WILL רצון AND DESIRE AND YOUR GOOD TO GO!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Many attempts were made by Shmira coordinators thru family members of CH Shomrim and thru community leaders to the ppl running CH Shomrim to sit together with Shmira to work out any 8 year old issues they might still have not forgotten, just for the benefit of the community, but shomrim have steadfastly refused

    resident
    resident
    15 years ago

    Shomrim fan, you should have written Shomrim Member.

    now we can all see from your rant, how much hate you have for Shmira.

    Do what’s best for us, if you want to help the community, you can create Chavarim instead.

    youre all babys
    youre all babys
    15 years ago

    kids kids play nice!

    Yiddel
    Yiddel
    15 years ago

    For all those that are reading this blog I’m assuming you now understand why Shmira had to start working with the police. Shomrim members will resort to saying or doing anything to create a different image then what the reality really is. They refuse to co-operate with anyone for the sake of the community. Shmira has around 4 times the amount of members that Shomrim has and is way more accepted by the community then Shomrim. They just didn’t want to make peace and now they are on the outside and will stay there. Even the website they control, is not reporting the new developments, they figure if THEY don’t tell anyone no one will know. So sad that they prefer hating, over helping other Jews.

    SHOMRIM FAN
    SHOMRIM FAN
    15 years ago

    I’ll let g-d almighty be my Judge.

    He knows my heart and mind better then even I do.

    I also have some faith in man kind, I think these “humans” can also make up their own mind (with their g-d given gift of free chioce).

    Thank you!

    To shomrim:

    nothing stand in the way of רצון -will-desire.

    Who ever has the true desire and will in his heart and mind will be the ones to survive.

    You keep on trucking doing only good things,

    we all love what you do and what you stand for.

    Just do what you do best and all will just get even better!

    all the best,

    wish I had the time and courage to be a shomrim member.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    hehe shmira has 4 times the amount of members… yeh so why they take 6 times as long to respond to calls. and as far as i know their areonlt 17 guys sighned up for that COP BS, so so much for somany mambers what are they trying to do play with the new inspecter, it will come back and bight them in your face

    Being/doing right is not easy
    Being/doing right is not easy
    15 years ago

    TO Shomrim Fan and all those that fight for the right:

    They say that I am a well-known purveyor of hate…with a history of false and defamatory statement…but they do not manage to quote any…this is a common tactic…instructive lesson in bully-boy tactics…that is, to accuse every critic of purveying hatred and bigotry…everyone, no matter what…

    it’s good to see that you are not intimidated. I am not intimidated…so I’m here to tell you about the Truth about shmira…

    And the truth hurts.

    Yiddel
    Yiddel
    15 years ago

    In response to;

    Being/doing right is not easy,

    I figured you plagiarized that entire post since nobody from your entire group knows how to spell and never seems to make any sense. I googled the first line, lo and behold it was said by Robert Spencer in a speech in august of 2007 in regards to his heroic defense of our liberties which is the complete opposite of what you and your kind constantly do.

    And that’s the point with you and your kind constantly ripping off other people’s sayings and accomplishments. And besides this low level plagiarizing that all can see, I dealt with it first hand. Funny how it’s so easy to spot a fake. Haven’t you ever stopped for a moment and thought that if just you, the real problem here, left town this entire problem facing the community would simply disappear.

    Shmira Flying High
    Shmira Flying High
    15 years ago

    Shmira Fly high (enjoy), but know where you’re going to land???

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    You say Shomrim Massered on other Yidden? Bring proof! Names, dates, times and locations. Dont make a sweeping statement, similar to how the KGB operated back in the times of Stalin, and not back it up with any proof. What you did has an ‘easy to remember’ name, its called PROPAGANDA.

    You say Shmira tried to reach out to Shomrim and make peace and try to settle an 8 year old ‘issue’? DO YOU ALL KNOW WHAT THAT ISSUE WAS?

    Let me tell you a story:

    Dovid Rogatsky went and tried to rob a safe on a Friday night 8 years ago in Montreal, him and his co-horts were busted and arrested.

    Word reached Crown Heights about the failed heist and SHOMRIM (the name was changed when they were still one group) and there was a vote to oust the criminaly involved members, which he was voted out. This infuriated a number of the members who decided to quit and reform together with Dovid as port of their group.

    That is the source and root of the fight. Now on to the bs about peace:

    You say Shmira tried to reach out and make peace with Shomrim, well chew on this; Shmira orchestrated an elaborate Messira on 7 Shomrim members on December 29 in the dorm of 749 Eastern Parkway, this was the first unpervoked attack by Shmira on Shomrim in 5 years, what prompted it, I do not know, but fact is it happend.

    During some of the ‘peace talks’ (think Israel and Hamas) one of the issues brough up was the Messira, where Shomrim demanded that the Messira stop, and only then will Shomrim be willing to sit down to talk.

    The request was stedfastly refused, by none other then Yossi Stern himself.

    So dont sell me all that bs about peace and Shomrim not wanting to make peace, its easy to say it what Shomrim doesnt make a big deal of it all and does not run to defend itself, what is even the point?

    For the grand finally, Police say that there were 16 applications. SIXTEEN?!?! DOESNT SHMIRA HAVE A FORCE TRIPPLE THE SIZE OF SHOMRIM?!?! DONT THEY HAVE OVER 100 MEMBERS?!?! IS THAT ALL THEY CAN MUSTER UP?????

    Keep in mind, these are only APPLICATIONS, it does not mean that they were accepted, fingerprints need to be run, backround checks, and employment evaluation.

    If there is more then 6 applications that are accepted, I WILL BE SUPRISED.

    SO WHERE IS THE HUNDREDS OF SHMIRA?

    goodbye shmira
    goodbye shmira
    15 years ago

    c.o.p. community observation patrol is not something new for nyc and is not something new for the united states. in some states c.o.p. volunteers get training, medical, search and rescue etc. for nyc c.o.p. go to nyswww.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/community_affairs/community_participation_programs.shtml –

    all you get is a bright orange jacket and get to hang out with a pricint community affairs officer

    so shmira will dissolve as someone put it, and will become observers, shomrim will never dissolve, and they wont just observe they will take action and do.

    the shmira-shomrim issue
    the shmira-shomrim issue
    15 years ago

    what does it matter what someone did 8 year ago?? If your objective is “helping the community” and “doing chesed” then would you not do anything (even risk your life, possibly) to protect a fellow brother?

    If your answer is “no that’s not why I’m here” then you don’t deserve to run an organization in the community. But if your answer is “Yes that is our objective” then you would go out of your way to make piece because that is what is best for the community.

    By bringing in other issues, like 749 that have to do with your mistakes that you committed against others, who have nothing to do with either organization is absurd.

    By not coming forward (even though it might be hard) you show that you are not “for the community” you are only for yourself.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    WHAT DOES IT MATTER WHAT SOMEONE DID 8 YEARS AGO?!?! WOULD YOU HIRE A BABYSITTER WHO WAS CONVICTED FOR CHILD MOLESTATION 8 YEARS AGO????

    Dont got and say that its not the same, IT IS THE SAME! A criminal is a criminal and he has no place amongst a group of volenteer patrolmen.

    When somone calls Shomrim that want to be assured that they will be helped and not robbed when C”V they need Shomrims assistance in their home.

    Then you go and say “im bringing in other issues” well with all due respect your an idiot. Everything is related, and other issues are what is makeing the main issue. If Shomrim isnt willing to sit at a table with Shmira because of a Messira that they did, the only thing for shmira to do is TO STOP THAT MESIRA AT ALL COSTS, not go and say “its an other issue”. THAT IS CALLED HELPING THE COMMUNITY AT ALL COSTS.

    AS I SEE IT SHMIRA *IS NOT* DOING THAT. THEY ARE JUST PUTTING UP A DAM GOOD DOG AND PONY SHOW.

    TO Anonymous
    TO Anonymous
    15 years ago

    First of all, those people that you claim are “not fit” to be volunteer patrolmen were willing to step down and away from the patrol. You however refused that option since once again you are not worried about the community you are only worried about yourself.

    Secondly, you have an issue with some bochurim that are filling charges against you for something you allegedly committed against them. This is not the first opportunity you have given them to do so and now, after being beaten one too many times they are persistent in their path. You must find a way of dealing with that by yourself and if you for some reason cannot then try speaking to a Rov that you know they will listen to and work something out that way. All this has absolutely NOTHING to do with making peace and trying to work together to find a solution on how this can be worked out.

    Don’t forget negotiations are always made up of compromises from BOTH sides.

    To Anonymous
    To Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Why is it Shmira’s responsibility to clean op after your mess??

    The objective of shmira (as i understand it) Is to protect their fellow brother to the best of their ability that does not include convincing ppl to or not to press charges against a fellow brother. they cannot be responsible for other peoples actions.

    P.S. amazing analogy you got going there.

    shomrim fan
    shomrim fan
    15 years ago

    “Why is it Shmira’s responsibility to clean op after your mess??

    The objective of shmira (as i understand it) Is to protect their fellow brother to the best of their ability that does not include convincing ppl to or not to press charges against a fellow brother. they cannot be responsible for other peoples actions.”

    thats right!

    so why did they do just that?

    The fact is they did mix in (that is the main cause of the fighting [now].

    thanks well said