Jerusalem – Ultra-orthodox bachelors over the age of 20 must move out of Jerusalem, Rabbi Yaakov Yosef, head of the Hazon Yaakov yeshiva and son of Shas’ spiritual leader Rabbi Ovadia Yosef ruled this week.
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According to the rabbi, in the past it was customary to banish “older” single men from the capital as punishment for their refusal to marry and provide for a family.
In recent generations, Sephardi rabbis decided to annul this regulation, but according to Rabbi Yosef it should be reinstated. “Only a yeshiva student who studies Torah has an exceptional permission to postpone marriage, if he fears that marriage might distract him from his studies.
“But normally one must not delay marriage till after 20, and those who do had better leave Jerusalem and go study somewhere else,” he wrote.
Last week the rabbi discussed in his column the question of what was the right age for marriage, and concluded that men must wed no later than age 19.
“Any man who reaches the age of 20 must hurry without tarrying, or he might find himself looking for many more years,” he stated.
how old was he when he got married? just curious.
That’s ridiculous! Boruch Hashem I’m ashkenazi! (Also, I’m already married, and not chareidi!)… BH!!
WOW!
This will certainly be controversial. Chassidim in general (Yes, I know this is not universal) agree that a man should marry by 19, and certainly no later than 20, but we have never asked someone to move.
It is true that if a man allows 20 years to pass without being married, his chances of marrying, at least marrying decently, drop precipitously. But that is due to our cultural bias. In groups where it is common to wait, they have no problems waiting.
However, in the populations where people actually “Date” …. then I can see what the Rov here is saying. If one “Dates” one after the other, without finding his mate, he will never tend to find her. Why? First of all, he is being too picky. Second of all, eventually he will compare each one to ones he turned down, and remembering good points of the ones of the past, which he turned down, and each successive girl will seem to possess fewer of these midos. The ones of the past will blend together in the seeker’s mind, and form a standard which no woman can beat.
So, I fully agree it is important to not tarry, and to marry quickly. “Marry, don’t tarry.”
But, I am not comfortable with re-instituting the concept of banishing those who do not.
Due to the crazy shidduch situations today, sometimes something “happens” in a person’s family, or to a person, which temporarily makes it very hard to get a shidduch. A few years later, he/she finds a shidduch, usually with someone else who had such a barrier.
But, it is not my place to tell the Rov what to say or do. I am only voicing my thoughts, which to sum it up are: Encourage early marriage, but do not banish.
This rabbi seems to be blaming the haredi bochurim for delaying marriage. how bout they just ain’t find their bashert. or their parents couldn’t before the astronomical amount of money that has to be put down with a shidduch for half or more of an apartment. and wat bout the litvish or sefardi world, they don’t get such rules? wat are they different. just coz their track record is earlier marriage?? That’s being abusive and racist.
He forgets that according to the Halacha a person has to have established a parnasa with which he can support his family before getting married.
If he insists on enforcing one detail he should also enforce this one!
I don’t think 19 is the right age. I just know of the bochurim here in america they are still babies they first have to grow up and be mature when you get married, you have to know what you want in life, what kind of wife you want
they should do it in new york as well!!!!
I have no doubt we are only seeing a minor part of the story. There HAS to be more to this.
I support the death penalty for Men Women & Children age 20+ and not married period. Kill’em so they don’t interfere with the married peoples lifes.
It’s “Rabbis” like this that make a mockery out of Judaism,instead of showing compassion for people who haven’t been zocheh to find their bashert,he forgets,Drocheho darchei noam…
that’s a good way2 solve the problem. I am 26 not married only b/c I can’t find a girlm I date and ask people and do all that is needed. I work go to college going for a degree volinreer in the community. if I lived in jerusalum should I b banished ? few freinds of mine got married after 20. let see u have 24 26 29 28 30 those r ages of freinds that all got married should they have been banished ? he is a rabbi so respect is due to him but mayb he should get a PR person
…And all woman must wear burkhas as well…this is pure old school fanaticisim
And after marriage to go out and work, not back to yeshivah!
The Satmar rabbi in his holy sifer V’yoel Moshe says it was a T’kuna that all men above the age of 20 and younger then 60 singles were not permitted to live in Eretz Yisroel, because an Oviera there is more punishable
In today’s economy how to these Rabbis expect a nineteen year old to support a wife and maybe a year later a child. Sometimes, parents are not “wealthy!!! Parebts cannot always support children!!! Rabbis expect a lot!! Rent, electricity, food, just the basics today let alone insurance are expensive!! You cannot expect children to go to their parents for everything. !! We did not! Our parents made our weddings!! That’s it!!! If e ever needed anything all we had to do was ask!! Thatr never came up!!Kids today have to learn to stand on their own two feert or they never will!!!!!
Years ago, I don’t think young people dated. Even in non-Chasidish circles parents would choose their children’s mates and the children would listen to their parents and marry each other. The parents would initially support the children. Our lifestyles have evolved so much from those simpler times, that our youngsters have become to independent and don’t listen to their parents anymore. They think they know better than their parents. I think the old way was better. Marry them off young and you don’t have a “shidduch Crisis”
this is a perfect example of whom chazal meant,when they said,”kol tamid chacham she ain boh daas,neveilo serucha tova mimenoi
How many married men in Yerushalayim keep the mitzvah of supporting a wife and family?? I thought there there might be other reasons given (I think the whole ban is nonsense) but support a family! The later the boys get married there are fewer families living in poverty.
Actually, people mature based in their curcumstances. For example, in times of sorrow R”L, people grow up very quickly.
The problem is that the American school system stunts the growth. These days, kids are still in Elementary school until close to 15, then in High School untill close to 19. How do you expect them to mature?
If we would shave off one year in elementary (or start one year earlier as it used to be), theb kids will mature a year earlier.
And if we do it to High School too, then we would have solved the Shiduch crisis. It used to be the accepted that a 16 year old was in “Bais Medrash” (They used to finish 12th grade english while in Beis Medrash). In europe they were even younger. I believe R’ Elchonon Wasserman’s Z”L Yeshiva was for High School age Bochurim, and believe me, they wer mature!
I think banishing the bochurim is not the right thing to do, if someone is getting married only so they not banished its a good thing???
As a chassidishe bochur I think the age of getting married depends on the individual as we all need time to develop and become who we are. Instead of banishing bochurim help them find their shidduch!
I am 22 and only starting to look now as I was focusing on my studies and a parnossa, BH I guess Im Ashkenazi
Actually, people mature based in their curcumstances. For example, in times of sorrow R”L, people grow up very quickly.
The problem is that the American school system stunts the growth. These days, kids are still in Elementary school until close to 15, then in High School untill close to 19. How do you expect them to mature?
If we would shave off one year in elementary (or start one year earlier as it used to be), theb kids will mature a year earlier.
And if we do it to High School too, then we would have solved the Shiduch crisis. It used to be the accepted that a 16 year old was in “Bais Medrash” (They used to finish 12th grade english while in Beis Medrash). In europe they were even younger. I believe R’ Elchonon Wasserman’s Z”L Yeshiva was for High School age Bochurim, and believe me, they wer mature!
Most of you are totally going off topic. R’ Y. Yosef is simply making note of the aforementioned agreement of the rabbis of Israel that was enacted years ago, obviously all he’s trying to do is reenact that ruling.
Now whether he’s right or wrong, is a halachic discussion, not just any topic open to every Tom Dick and Harry that would like to voice his opinion on marriage.For a lenghty ruling regarding the annulment of the agreement, see his father’s work Halichos Olam chelek 7 pg 75.
how old was rav elyashiv when he got married? how old were his sons and grandsons when they married
Instead of making an idiotic statement about banishing single bachurim from Jerusalem, why not bring single girls TO Jerusalem and help those single bachurim get married?
And where exactly are these bachurim supposed to banished to?
What a mockery. Sounds like the son of someone famous trying to make a name for himself so he can live up to familial expectations at the expense of common sense and sensitivity to those who haven’t yet found their zivug.
This Rabbi sound more like a Taliban Moola than a talmid chuchum. Heaven help us.
being banished will make it even harder for him to marry!! so should he stop learning and go to work? where should he go, what should he do?
Why not banish single girls to the same town as the boys. Then they could meet and get married and move back to Jerusalem.
Anyone who knows anything about this rebbe will know that his words will be ignored, even within his own community. This is one of the dumbest takanahs ever issued, and will only will serve to undermine his credibility even among the hareidi community. He has shown how a Gadol can quickly show himself to be a katan, at least as far as his daas torah is manifest in his naresh words and illogic.
How about all rabbis over 40 leave Jerusalem and get jobs? Would he like that decree?
We in Judaism have become so frum over the generations making separation of genders more and more and then we expect to get married right away, going from one extreme to the other is not good. Also people do not mature as they used to so people get older because at 19 they are usually mature as a 14 yr old
It is not really a new “Takana”
It is actually a halacha which is more chomur in Eretz Yisroel.
We have been maikil on it for years.
But, now that we have recovered from the Holocaust, and have gotten things together again, he is saying it is time to follow the halacha again, and not rely on the heterim used during the past crises.
The article talks about men who refuse to marry. A man must have a woman who is willing to marry him in order to get married. I am in my late 40s and was never in the position of having a Jewish woman showing enough interest in me to want to marry me.
If a man has a low income, how likely is it for there to be a Jewish woman who will be willing to marry him? Before punishing men for being single over a certain age, they must be given opportnities to get married and refuse them. Perhaps if there are arranged marriages, and a man has real chances to get married but refuses them, then perhaps if he is over a certain age(20 is too young though. Imo 28 would be more reasonable in this day and age) he should be blamed for staying single. Why place the blame on men though? Why not place the blame on women? It seems like women tend to be much more selective than men when choosing a mate, and that women are more likely to reject someone they have a date with than a man is. If a man has no access to a Jewish woman who would marry him, then why should he be blamed for remaining single? Perhaps there should be a system of arranged marriages for women who reach the age of 30 and are still single.
Such stupidity. This may be the dumbest thing Ive heard in a long time (including the presidential election!) What if someone CAN’T find a shidduch? Would you add insult to injury by throwing him out of town? Is every 19yo ready?
I got engaged at 19. I married at 23. I know this sounds strange, so I’ll explain. We knew we wanted to marry each other. However, I wanted to get my career going, and so did she which meant we had to go to school. I moved a bit futher away from her in order to create an appropriate distance, but we would talk on the phone or email. Our parents became very close during this time and we would see each other on occasions with the entire family present (never alone). Once we felt set, we picked a date and went with it. H” brought 2 independent, strong, like-minded people together who knew how to handle the intense pressure, and it is the first thing I thank him for every day.
Neither of us were ready to get married. We knew we could not support each other properly yet. Everyone was pushing and pushing me to find someone… and I did… lucky for me we were both sick of the whole thing and wanted to establish ourselves first. There is no single “plan” that works for everyone so why cram one down everyone’s throats?
Should a bochur be forced to enter a marriage he doesn’t want? Should he be forced to have children he doesn’t want? Is a life filled with regrets and resentment any kind of life at all?
Satmar Man, how dare you compare women to cars?! The fact that you would do so to illustrate your (incorrect) points shows how little respect you have for women. Women are not belongings that you buy. A marriage is about a relationship. In order for a marriage to be right it the people have to meet each other at the right time and they have to “click”.
Several people here have mentioned that in the olden days people just married the first person their parents stuck in front of them. And they think that was somehow better! How many people lived with a person whose personality clashed with theirs? How many were not attracted to their spouse from the very beginning? How many thought of their marriages as just blah instead of being excited to get married and had truly happy marriages? Have you thought about that?!
Dating exists so that people can get to know each other and find the person that is right for them. Yes some people are too picky and never satisfied. But I don’t believe that the majority are like that. And rushing young people to get married just makes people even more reluctant to settle down. I think that Satmar Man is in a mediocre marriage and wants more people to end up just like him because misery loves company.
I married my husband at age 25 and I’m glad I waited. There was a guy my parents were pressuring me to marry when I was 21 but I didn’t like the way he spoke to me. He was attractive and wealthy but I knew it wouldn’t work. So I waited a few years for the right man. I used my own judgment and things turned out well. Marriage is the most important decision a person will ever make. It should not be rushed.
“During the 12 months out of seminary almost all these girls undergo a radical change. Och un vei if they are married and drag their husband, who has barely achieved emotional maturity himself, through this metamorphisis. If Yeshivas (especially) and Seminaries would spend a little bit of time teaching interpersonal skills – with particular focus on married couples, the situation wouldn’t be so grim.”
I completely agree. Several of my friends who got married right out of seminary got divorced within one year. And those that didn’t had a lot of work to do. Seminaries could do a lot better when it comes to teaching about the relationship aspect of marriage. Yes they talk about “compromise” etc. but a lot of it is very vague and impractical.
Perhaps a a new state can be created a state for bachlors only? Just kidding I respect the Rav I am sure he knows what he is speaking about. I have a feeling he thinks that families and bochurim have become so choosy that they forget what life is all about and leaving home would help them remember. In any case I don’t know the Halacha so I can’t comment properly I wish everyone to find their true zivug quickly.
Halachic point. The Gemara (Kiddushin 29b) says that men can delay getting married in order to learn. Most people, including the Mechaber (EH 1:3) assume that this means even past 20. Even if you assume like R’ Yaakov that 20 is the ultimatum, the Rama (ibid) rules that bizman hazeh we do not force people to get married by 20. Thank G-d that I’m Ashkenazi.
I can tell you from the many girls I have worked with, that Seminary girls have no better track record in marriage than those who got married at 17 or 18.
Though I am sure each and every one of you personally knows an exception, the girls who marry at 17 or 18 with no Seminary, actually have a better chance at a happy marriage.
This was shocking to me, as I teach in a Seminary, and used to believe it was a good thing for a girl to spend that year or two in Seminary.
Now, I secretly counsel otherwise.
in conversation with gdolei yisroel(that deal specifically with youth problems),
they all advised early marriage. when i mentioned the maturity issue , the explanation was , today’s kids look at themselves like babies when they’re teenagers, because they don’t get married till later.
if the system changes and early marriage is encouraged, maturity will happen earlier.
you won’t have a lot of the problems we have today because of immaturity.
Have all the Rabbis in EY gone crazy? This wont solve the shidduch crisis, it will only exacerbate it. Maybe the girls shold start gettting married at 12 or 13 so it will leave the 19 year olds with more to choose from. Serioulsy, the last few Psaks from EY have ben Cuckoo!
has the world gone completely mad or just the good rabbi. what next…. banishing jews for jay walking or using the mikvoh before the shower.
This is a centuries-old takana in Jerusalem.
Read the book “Jerusalem, where heaven touches earth” you’d be surprised who was kicked out of jerusalem because of this centuries old takanah.
Imo arranged marriages are the answer, at least for people who reach the age of 30 and are still single. Why not just tell the women that she needs to find a husband before she is 30(or perhaps 25 or 28?) or one will be chosen for her. Blaming the men isn’t the answer, as typically the single man doesn’t know a Jewish woman who is willing to marry him. Perhaps women need to be more assertive in finding a mate, and not be passive. The tradional model of a man pursuing the women he finds interesting doesn’t seem to work today, as the women seem to be much more discriminating than the men when it comes to who they would accept as a mate.
Perhaps women need to be taught to actively pusue the men they are interesting in, as often these men would not go out of their way to show interest in her, but would often seriously consider her if she pursued him.
Sorry to tell you that the older boys are just as picky. If the girl isn’t skinny, pretty or young they are NOT interested. (A lot of them could stand to lose a few pounds themselves. And the girl will hopefully become pregnant soo).
Now true, the girl will more often turn down the second date, etc.. but the boy is usually harder to pin down for a first date, you see. They have lists. And lists. They forget they are not 20 themselves. Some don’t even try to make a good impression. They are only out to have a good time or a meal companion.
#55- If you are constantly being turned down and not getting dates, it’s possible enough people don’t know you. Call shadchonim, there are many organizations today that help. If that is not the problem, ask yourself WHY you are being turned down. Talk to someone or see a relationship coach. They are fabulous! Hatzlacha rabah.
#80 , you don’t want them to just get married, you want them to STAY married. Your idea is lousy.
This is disgusting and insensative. You have know idea how much you hurt a single person by saying this. Hashem didnt make it so that we all find the right person at the same time. Now you are pushing people into getting married or banished. You know what this causes????? Unhappy marriages, divorce, children from messed up homes, and G-d knows what else. All this does is make people who havent found the right person by the age of 20 depressed and either 1. they run to marry who ever they can find-even if its not a healthy relationship and they dont even like each other OR 2. the single person gets so depressed that they cant have a healthy relationship and they wind up not getting married for a while or at all. WHAT YOU ARE DOING BY SAYING SUCH A THING IS PERPETUATING THE CYCLE OF BOTH HIGHER DIVORCE RATE/UNHAPPY MARRIAGE RATE AND A SHIDDUCH CRISIS. YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF-THIS IS NOT THE TORAH WAY. SOME OF THE GREATEST GEDOLIM DIDNT GET MARRIED TILL THEY WERE OLDER AND NOT FOR LACK OF TRYING BUT B/C THEY DIDNT FIND THE RIGHT PERSON TILL THEN. ARE YOU SAYING THAT THESE MEN WERE NOT TRUE TORAH JEWS.
I got married at the young age of 19. I thought I was ready. Since then, things have soured. Maybe I should’ve dated more than two girls before deciding on this one. Four years later, I am stuck in a marriage with a woman who doesn’t get me and is also an ugly troll.