Israel – The television will be closed in the closet, internet connections will be offered only to married couples, and there will be an option to separate the beds. These are some of the services some 20 hotels in Israel have taken upon themselves in order to accommodate ultra-Orthodox guests.
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A little more than a month after senior haredi rabbis ordained the “Committee for the Character of the Jewish People” to establish a list of vacation spots appropriate for the haredi public, it seems as if their efforts are bearing fruit.
Five of the hotels that have taken upon themselves to uphold the stringent modesty standards of the haredi public are under religious ownership. These hotels have agreed to impose the standards all days of the year. The other 15 hotels have committed to institute the set modesty code during certain short time periods during which ultra-Orthodox guests increase.
The code operates such that even if a haredi guests wishes to act against the modesty code – and watch television, for instance – the guest will not be able to do so.
In addition to the list signed, the 20 hotels have committed to act according to the instructions of current rabbinical religious authorities. If they fail to do so, the committee will remove the hotel from the list and will make it known to the haredi public that the hotel is no longer among those authorized by the committee. It was agreed that in such a case, the offending hotel will have no legal recourse against the committee.
Following is the list of modesty regulations the hotels have committed to keep:
• Television
“The television equipment will be disconnected, at the very least by removing the cable and closing it away in storage, as well as disconnecting the central control in reception, such that no one can turn it on. The television itself will be covered or closed in a closet. A guest who does not observe the Torah and mitzvot, or someone who claims he has a television at home and his looks prove this, will be directed to a rabbi who will authorize that he be connected to the television.”
• Internet
“The wireless internet will be locked in the whole of the hotel compound. The computers in the lobby and other places accessible to hotel guests will not have internet access. Internet cards sold by the hotel will be available only to (married) adults.”
• Pool
“It will not be possible to observe bathing from any location. Male bathing will be overseen by a male lifeguard, and female bathing will be overseen by a female lifeguard.”
• Bars
“There will be a separate bar men and a separate bar for women in the dining room and anywhere else. In the hand washing area, a separation between men and women is also needed.”
• Hotel employees
“Women to be dressed modestly”
• Beds
“The beds will be separable in the rooms, or, otherwise, an extra bed may be added.”
But there is some controversy in the background.
The “Committee for the Character of the Jewish People” is taking action on the modesty front while the rabbis responsible for granting kosher certificates to hotel kitchens are waging a war against them.
The kosher-granting rabbis claim that the modesty demands being made are exaggerated and will only lead to unnecessary revocation of kosher certifications since rabbis would not dare grant certificates to establishments that are not on the committee’s modesty list. The implied linkage between modesty and kashrut, they claim, will bring unnecessary economic damage to hotel owners.
The opposing rabbis also claim that the committee is acting out of its own self-interest that is not always connected with modesty.
In a rare step within the framework of internal haredi power struggles, an anonymous letter was sent some two weeks ago to the senior haredi rabbis, kosher supervisors in the hotels, and members of the committee accusing a senior rabbi of a long list of offences – both halakhic and criminal.
According to the anonymous writers, they are “young Torah scholars for whom the character of the Jewish people is truly important,” and that the motivating factor of the accused man is “money and women” only.
The letter writers detailed the acts allegedly committed by the man called the rabbis to get rid of him and warned, “Heaven forbid this material reaches the secular press, then there would be defamation of God and the reputation of the committee rabbis will be damaged.”
Well, I’m glad to see that we’re now getting a clearer picture (oops excuse the tv reference) of the dangers of the internet not extending to married couples – a valuable kula to keep aware of.
KT
Only married people are allowed to use the internet? That sounds crazy. Improper use of the net can be done by a married person or a single person. So can proper use of the net.
Aahhhh….necessity is the mother of invention. All this comes about probably because the “hospitality” of Israeli heimische hotels became insufferably bad and the hotel-patronizing public was left with no choice but to patronize secular hotels that are run professionally and to accommodate the public and not just being run “into the ground” like the best of the chareidi establishments. The damage that results to the Charedi public is, in their attempt to “kasher” the secular hotels, the behind-the-scenes squabbling and back-stabbing tends to surface, which, in the end, paints a comical and ridiculous picture of the Charedische elitel (to the snickering of the secular public). It is funny and ironic, but the best examples of Yiddischekeit and kiddush hashem usually come from baalei teshuva like Rabbis Amnon Yitzchak and Uri Zohar.
What does being married have to do with internet access? Also, most, if not all, hotels offer rooms with twin beds.
Most of this is laughable! Especially loved the part “or someone who claims he has a television at home and his looks prove this, will be directed to a rabbi who will authorize that he be connected to the television.” Would love to know what looks are required to prove that someone has a television at home.
in the words of the great Bob Grant “they are sick and getting sicker”
And the Talibanization of Israel begins. Personal responsibility is no longer an option: The hotels must make those weighty choices for its guests.
This is what sends are children of the derach . When you shelter them to much & than they grow up & see there’s all these things out there they go runing after it. For example a lot of kids that never saw a television till they’re 18 & than when they see it they get glued to it . As long as halachicly its not oser we shouldn’t be sheltering them like this unless we know that we can keep them sheltered there whole life
if the guy is ultra he cant control him self from turning on the tv or going on the internet?if they have no control they should live in a box.everything in this world can be used for good or bad.and you know what hashem wants be a big boy come on.
LOL. I agree with comment #4 . Absolutly crazy.
Yes I want the rabbi to stop me from going on the internet or watching TV these are evil activates. I cant wait for the hotel to open.
Mafia anyone?
Is there any hotel in Eliot in this group?????
If anyone wants to know why there is such contempt for these self-appointed watchdogs of public morality and why the orthodox rabbinate has become the focus of such jokes and disrepect, this article (assuming it is not a bad joke) will provide enough material for every late-nite comedian in EY and elsewhere. If I want to check my email, I have to go to their “internet mashgiach (who I presume is an unemployed rebbe from some chareidi bes medrash) to establish my bona fides as a “non-believe in torah and mitzvot”. And you wonder why the respect for orthodox rabbonim is at such an all time low.
These rules do not go nearly far enough.
What about requiring a husband and wife to bring their kesuba?
Even more importantly, the rabbonim must require any married couple who wants a room with one bed to bring in a signed and dated certificate from the wife’s mikvah, so her Taharah status is certain.
Otherwise, what kind of rav would give a kashrus hashgacha to a hotel that allows husbands and wives to sleep with one another without ensuring they comply with hilchos niddah?
OK, I’m going to buck the trend here and state that I don’t really have a problem with this. The hotel made a business decision and determined that they’ll be better off if they can attract more chareidim — even if it means attracting fewer non-chareidim to the hotel. They will either thrive or fall on their decision. As long as the policy is stated so up front, and there are other accommodations available for those that want it, then I don’t have a problem with this.
One thing I’m curious about, however, is how you tell by looking at them if a person has a TV in their home? 🙂
The Wolf
is this a late april fools joke?pray tel;l me it is
Great step! Any religious person will find this a great relief and peace of mind. I wish we had decent hotels in the USA that also did this once in a while. The choice is to stay in a horrible, chintzy hotel that smells funny, or to be uncomfortable in a secular hotel because the staff and guests don’t understand how to accommodate our needs. How can someone keep Shabbos in a hotel while there is a giant television in front of the beds, it just doesn’t feel right to us. Tizku L’Mitzvot!
Insane.
So a married couple is allowed to look at improper web sites on the internet, but single people can’t???
Why don’t they just offer internet with blocked content to all the guests of the hotel???
Hahahahahaha! Only married couples can use the internet? No wifi in the lobby or anywhere else? Well I hope they have people that actually WANT these ridiculous rules because for many people it would be a dealbreaker. I’m on business but I’m not married, ooooopps, no internet for me!!
Maybe I’m missing something,
“someone who claims he has a television at home and his looks prove this”
Does anyone know how to distinguish a person who has a television by his appearance?
Is there a reason that married people are allowed internet access?
Some of the points are valid and appreciated, bit others are a little bizarre.
I know that although I’m Frum and Hasidic, I will make every effort to avoid these hotels,. I do not need anyone dictating to me what I’m allowed or not allowed to do. especially not some yukel working the front desk at the hotel. If i want to watch TV i can, I dont need a hotel for this…
To all the people who feel that they one should be able to control one self KAFRIM!!
What happened to the gemara of not going past a Bais Zoina which applies to evryone. SHAME ON YOU!!
(by the way would you send your children on a unsupervised trip to Amsterdam if they wanted??? just wondering.)
#17 , I believe that it is a business decision. As these hotels get run down and require renovations in order to compete with the mainstream hotels, they are choosing to keep them outdated and REDUCE their services i.e TV’s, internet connection, replace old beds etc and maintain high occupancy levels. It is just a shame that the chareidi community doesn’t see it for what it is and/ or care. Just my thoughts.
These new takonos are not stringent enough. In order to safeguard the public, the use of all hotel phones( and perhaps home phones) should be banned unless a responsible Rabbi is listening in on the line. This would prevent the prevalence of rechilus , lashon hora , and most importantly talking to members of the opposite gender.Telephones are used more often to commit aveiros than both television and the internet.It is time that the use of such a dangerous instrument should be strictly controlled . In addition there should be two separate buttons on the telephone to insure that male guests speak to only to male operators and women to women operators.I am confident that instituting these relatively minor improvements will hasten the coming of moshiach.
Which hotels are on this list?
What if you are a grown man (single) in Israel on business (no internet?????Sometimes the rules do not make sense — are they going to find hima wife so he can use the internet?? he will go home or do business elsewhere!!
This is truly appalling and will have severe impact with our acheinu bais yisroel.
There is a big difference in trying to put in neutral accommodations to facilitate frum people but this is problematic. Having employees dress appropriately, separate beds and washing stations is ok, or even having special rooms without TV’s or internet, separate beds . But this should be the requested option not vice versa.
When the hotel is rented out to Chareidi operators the other guests should not be rented to as to avoid ill feelings for no reason as has happened often in Israel.
The Satmar rebbe went to wedddings even when there were women in the hall and not everyone shaved their heads (maybe not in later years!) . But We should not impose our ways on secular guests but accommdate our needs not make them the exception unless we rent out entire hotel. No concerts , no internet no Secular study program for our children— Really smart !!!
might as well rent a tent and sleep at massada, this whole thing is nut’s those demanding these restrictions have lot’s of time on their hands. so i quess pay per view is not even offered, maybe they can show lipa concerts for the ultra frum ones.
Who would want to go to these hotels—Frum people should boycott all these hotels as they will foster sinas chinom against our fellow Jewish brothers.
There should be no female emplyees either or at the least wearing veils!!
What hotels are these? I want to know so that I can avoid them when I visit Israel in September.
I think every woman entering the hotel should be given a burka to wear.
And we say the Taliban are crazy
I see that there are alot of board people in Israel. Riots, new hotel rules, ect.
Now I will know which hotels not to go to. Forcing people and telling them what they can or can’t do has never done any good. How many israelis have become religious because we won’t let them take a bus on shabbos? We lose more of our children than we gain by adopting these methods. We are being percieved just like the taliban or the mullahs in iran
what a joke 2 say singles rnt aloud on the net & married ppl r aloud… as if the net doesn’t harm only 4 singles…. in my opinion this would b the proper thing: net would b the kosher net (j net etc.) & permitted 4 both married & single & tv -which its harm doesn’t even come close 2 the harm of the net- would b permitted 4 cpls if they ask 4 it!!! (& NO prove needed if they have it
home) & mayb even 4 singles some channels (like sports or news)!
The people behind this the ‘kanoim’ are usually the biggest perverts. They project all of their sick fantasies onto other people. If they go to a hotel with a tv and can’t resist watching adult content they think all of us are the same. Get a life, and keep your paws off little children
I’m gonna go find me a kallah so I can get me some internet!
can they still get television
if a man and a woman come in and se has a sheitel but they are not married to each other will the rabbi still let them have internet and a same room
what is wrong with these rabbis
we are losing children every day to drugs and molestation but this the rabbis are busy with
give me a break thats why i am so disgusted with the so called leadership
close aguda close torah temima close ohel
lets start anew and if these rabbis would have lived during moshe rabbeinus time they would have thrown out aharon hacohen for sppeaking to a woman
There is a concept of free-choice.
The “Committee for the Character of the Jewish People”, and no committee for that matter, can ultimately control people. If someone chooses not to follow a communal standard, that is their choice. People are not robots, or dogs on a leash, whose every action could be controlled by another.
Additionally, the way the rule is structured, the Rav is seemingly not concerned about the spirituality of people who don’t look Charedi. For if TV is problematic, why would a Rav in good conscious be, de facto, part of allowing a non-Charedi to have TV? A Rav should care about the spiritual behavior of all Jews!
A better option for the “Committee for the Character of the Jewish People” would be to remove TV’s from all rooms and have people ask for it. The potential embarassment of a person looking Charedi, and still asking for a TV would no doubt discourage many people from asking for it. However, you can not, ultimately, control someone who wants to veer from communal norms.
The only nice thing about this is the swimming- I have been to many hotels where they claimed to have “women’s only” hours only to get to the pool and find men going in and out.
As for the separate beds, that’s available in all hotels, and is actually the default option in most cases (unless you ask for a bridal suite; I still remember the funny looks we got on our wedding night when we asked for a room with 2 beds).
TV’s- there is a simple concept: DON’T TURN IT ON. I have not watched TV in a hotel since I stopped watching TV. Anyway, it’s usually in a cabinet that can be closed, so you don’t even have to look at it.
The Internet thing is just patently ridiculous. Married people go to inappropriate sites all the time, and many marriages in our community are r’l destroyed by this; likewise, single people are perfectly capable of restricting themselves to business emails and Torah sites. Either you allow it (with filters) for everyone, or you forbid for everyone.
What kind of ‘rabbis’ are in this world? I am sure the rabbis of yesteryear are turning in their graves. I am sure they did not give up their lives in the Holocaust for this stupidity. This is yet more proof that this religion has just become another ‘ism’ and a money maker. This is no different than other ‘religions’ or ‘faiths’.
When you have ‘rabbis’ who are more interested in money and respect than actual problems, you begin to get a clear picture of the nonsense which is going on. When you have ‘jews’ like madoff, rubashkin, merkin, money scandal jerk… and ‘rabbis’ who cover up these and abuse scandals.. it is clear this is all a Sham!
Will they put net-cams over the sing in every room to make sure we wash negel vasar?
Also, they should send someone around friday afternoons to remove the toilet paper from every room.
Can I use my Starwood points for a few nights stay. It sound so exciting! Especially for hide and seek. Articles like this is what turns people away for religion.
I don’t have a problem with this. If you don’t like the rules in these hotels, don’t stay there!
Most of these posts are patently rediculous. Did any of you ever hear of darka achrina or giruy hayetzer? Now these rules might need some fine tuning. But the basis for this is, the Charedi public is looking for vacation sites without all the objectionable material and the Rabonim are trying to accommodate them.
I wish them all success!
However, are there so many chareidim who pay high hotel prices, and will still do so without their freedom?
I would imagine that some people would think the hotel bill should be a quarter of what it is, without these new “restrictions” for chareidim.
The other three quarters should perhaps be made up in other ways. Perhaps, for the price of a one-bed room, the chareidi should recieve a 4-bed room, but without the TV etc.
#49 ..you can lways join the catholic, hindu..etc they are perfect
#36 nowhere in the torah or 4 parts of jewish law is burka mentioned, so why should we? on the other hand all the things mentioned are assur and even ‘mideoireise’. EG: mixed swimming, TV.also if the hotels feel they’ll get more business by complying why does a chiloni object, he can go to other hotels. by the way, if someone can explain, ,even without rabbinical ….what heter is for a ben torah to supply a dovor huassor , whats with l’ifnei iveir llo sitain micshol’?