New York – In honor Of Rav Meir Shapiro zatzal Founder of The Daf Yomi on his Yahrtzeit today zayin Cheshvan, VIN News is launching a daily Daf HaYomi column written by Rabbi Yair Hoffman.
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The column will highlight one issue of interest on the Daf. It is requested that the comment section for the column be reserved only for Torah discussions and questions on that particular Daf only. It is hoped that this column will help achieve the unity, friendship and achdus in Avodas Hashem that Rav Meir Shapiro zatzal dedicated his life to achieve. Amain!
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Many of us have experienced it. We hear someone make an error in Torah and we feel awkward about correcting them, or perhaps we do not want to embarrass them. But surely errors in Torah must be corrected! Or should they?
In today’s daf (Bava Basra 65) – we see the parameters of what should or should not be corrected.
There is a debate as to what a seller has in mind when he sells an item to a buyer. Is the seller generous or stingy in what he includes? Rabbi Akiva holds that he is generous, while the sages hold that he is not. The halacha is like Rabbi Akiva that, in fact, we assume the seller is generous. Shmuel held like Rabbi Akiva and Rav did not. (We hold like Shmuel who holds like Rabbi Akiva).
Rav Yirmiah Bar Abba tried proving that Rav’s opinion was in accordance with Rabbi Akiva’s. He tried proving this by saying that he had said over the halacha many times in front of Rav and Rav did not correct him!
Rav Huna understood what had transpired. Rav Yirmiah had misattributed the two views. He had switched Rabbi Akiva’s position with that of the Chachomim. Although he had misattributed the views, Rav Yirmiah Bar Abba still had the halacha correct in Rav’s view.
It is clear from the Gemorah that Rav Huna held that Rav did not correct Rav Yirmiah Bar Abba for the misattribution – since he had the halacha correct.
We can learn a remarkable lesson from here. The only time that we should correct another person when it is awkward, embarrassing or we may embarrass another is when the halacha that comes out is incorrect. If the error lies in a factual detail that has no halachic ramification than the greater part of valor is to remain silent.
Although we do not pasken like Rav in regard to the halacha as to what a seller has in mind when he sells things and does not spell out ompletely what he has sold, we would follow him in terms of when or when not to correct others.
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I agree with your outcome so I should not realy correct you but since I’m a rebal rouser I’ll try my best anyway just kidding but in all seriuesnes I agree but from this gemarah I don’t see the rayeh I hear the sevarah but mehicha tesie to say that is the real reasson maybe he had other reasons for not corecting him and even if not mehacha tesie that we would pasken like him in this regard please bring rayos to your made up sevaros as good as they maybe
This will be gevaldig for shtiging in learning, I travel alot so this is going to be my link whne i am in a goishe city, Looking forward for this new forum
Perhaps there were two “girsaos” for the “machlokes”. Rav himself may not have been sure which was correct, he was only sure what the “Halacha” is.
Because Rav Huna was sure that he would have corrected him – it is a shtarke raya. Otherwise halacha keRav. Rav Hoffman is right on the mark!
great great, very much appreciated. thanks a lot.
Interesting I have noticed that when someone had halitosis everybody reframes from telling that person, based on this we should tell them at least not in front of everybody.
In my humble opinion, I believe that the point made is indeed valid, but the proof is not. The point can however be proven from a Gemorah in Sukkah 10B.
It is possible that all Rav Yirmiah Bar Abba had said in front of Rav was that the Halacha is like R’ Akiva, without clarifying WHAT R’ Akiva held. Therefore, Rav could not have corrected him, since Rav believed that R’ Yirmia is actually stating that Hamocher Beayin Roh Hu Mocher.
I think a better proof would be from Sukka 10B wher R’ Chisda and Rabbo bar Rav Huna slept in a sukka which R’ Nachmun supplied, although it was Posul according to their own shiatta (the decorations were over 4 tefachim away from the schach). They refrained from saying anything, since in any case they were putor from mitzvas sukka at that time, as the Gemara mentions.
Otherwise, I would like to commend Rav Hoffman for his tremendous work and insights. His thought-provoking and intelligent posts are a TREMENDOUS asset.
Thank you for this important and informative forum.
It is obvious that when the halachah in is question, one must correct another. However, the question stands as to whether one can perhaps correct another in a way that would not embarrass them?
Disagree with # seven – Rav Huna knew that Rav had Rabbi Akiva and the chachumim correct – so it is a proof!
I agree with # 3.
thank you very much VIN for this forum. it is important that we dont forget that we ar torah yidden.
Upon second thought, there is no proof that Rav Yirmiah Bar Abba was misquoting Rav Akiva-it could simply be two “Loshonos” of who said what, which is a common occurrence in Gemara, so RAV had nothing to correct.
In fact, the Gemara DOES often expend much effort on attributing things correctly, probably because “Haomer dovor beshem omroy mayvee geula leolam”. See Rashbam Pesachim 104B, that the source is important, since the deceased Tzaddik is zoche that “sifsosof dovivos bekever”.
i look forward to reading this every day. excellent idea.