New York – It is long established pattern of the hired cheer-leaders of the EJF to attempt to blacken the name of anyone who criticizes their activities in any way – the pot of gold that the EJF has found is worth $25 million and counting and who wants to lose out on that?
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But it is clear who the real ganef is in this sad story – it is anyone who associates themselves with this organization whose sole function is to leech as much money as possible out of Mr. Kaplan. The feeble attempts to publish fact sheets in the jewish media demonstrates what and who they are – no serious or well meaning organization finds it necessary to print fact sheets stating that they are not low-lives, not ganovim, etc etc. this is usually a given in any moisad – and if they have to publish something of this nature it can only be that they are and always have been goineiv daas habri’os on a giant scale.
Some real facts:
EJF is an organization entirely funded by a (well meaning) secular Jew whose interests are the preservation of wild cats which are endangered by encroaching civilization and the preservation of Jewry which is endangered by intermarriage. His solution for the latter is to encourage the non Jewish partner to convert – the same approach taken by the reform and more recently, the conservatives.
The EJF has a rolodex containing botei din across the USA to which it refers potential converts which it claims to have selected and vetted. Many of those botei din have expressed surprise that potential geirim were being referred to them – small and relatively inexperienced, instead of being sent to the big established botei din in the major centers of yiddishkeit.
The reason is simply that the EJF refers cases which it claims are ready for giur to a small beis din that will accept their recommendation when a larger more established beis din would not consider the case in any way suitable. (additionally the EJF besmirches the name of botei din with track records measured in decades and whose credentials are impeccable but who have the temerity to question their judgement and qualifications) Rabbonim from small towns across the USA were continually surprised over the last few years that intermarried couples who they reckoned were unready for giur – even though they might qualify with a year or two of work – were leaving town and returning a month or two later having been converted through an EJF recommendation and officially having been mentored successfully by the EJF.
Without taking a stand for either side, I don’t see how the EJF defending itself from criticism can be considered an attack on R. Dunner. They were responding to comments he made against them.
Wow, powerful stuff.
please know the facts……reb moshe z”tl wrote in his teshovos that if a intermarried couple would have a option to use a nonhalacha geuris (reform ect) then ther bais din shoud use every heter to make a guir khalacha. this was to prevent a lot of problems later halachkly….i myself was shocked that many rabbonim werent aware of this when i showed them these teshovos, they all agreed how correct reb moshe words…..so before everyone says their 2 cents know the facts….its easy to talk, but there is a bif problem out there….the way to erectify it is not by being machmir but by being practical and seeing the big picture.
Finally someone within is standing up to these menuvulim birshus hatorah.the next battle rabbi dunner should get involved with,roshei yeshiva & administrators that refuse those without “connections”to mosdos hatorah.”ein cholken koved lrav bmokom sheyesh chilul hashem”.chazak vemutz rabbi dunner
Kudos to Rabbi Dunner – your humor is refreshing. Ad meah v’esrim…
Remember what Deep Throat said in the Watergate scandal: “follow the money”. The trail will lead you to all of the rabbanim and their yeshivas which have benefited from the Tropper well.
I am curious as to what Lubinsky’s response will be to this libelous attack against him. If he does nothing, then we will all know that Rabbi Dunner’s allegations are true. If he sues Rabbi Dunner for libel then he subjects himself to the discovery process during the litigation and the possibility that his own books will reveal the money trail. Some dilemma! I am waiting with baited breath to see how this plays out. The only thing that everyone can agree upon is that our rabbis are guilty of another Chillul Hashem.
to anyone who has any doubts, i suggest try speaking to tropper and dunner yourselves, depending on who you vote for you will know how normal you are or arent!
This is the saddest story I have ever seen in the Frum community and the more we dig deeper in this story its gets more shameful and more shameful.
We are only learning how people we are meant to look up at, Gidolim and community leaders are being led by money and corruption and even worse.
Is there any true Torah leadership any more?
Dunner began slinging the mud and now himself has become sullied. This emotionally charged name calling he calls a response is pathetic. Dunner took money and has as much a hand in this cookie jar as the rest. He should have kept his mouth shut.
At the end of the day, for those of you who form your worldview of the state of yiddishkeit based on articles and comments on VIN, you will continue to be disenchanted with rabbonim and left feeling leaderless. For the rest of us, who have personal poskim and madrichim, we will continue to turn to them for guidance and direction.
I urge you all to choose your leaders carefully, wisely and completely. I urge you to begin the process today. Call your Rav. Get to know him better. Get him to know YOU better. The onus is upon you as the clock relentlessly ticks.
#9 you state and i quote,
“Dunner began slinging the mud and now himself has become sullied. This emotionally charged name calling he calls a response is pathetic. Dunner took money and has as much a hand in this cookie jar as the rest. He should have kept his mouth shut.”
slinging?
mud?
emotionally!!! yes he cares , he cares he has a conscience.
Charged?
name calling?
pathetic?
took money?
should have kept his mouth shut? why
Chaval, chaval.
With respect to both sides (since I DON’T know the real truth), but R’ Dunner did not begin answering the question how did he voice an opinion in the name of the entire Beis Din without consulting R’ Eurenroy???
His ‘facts’ are simply inaccurate.
What people are missing is that Torah society should protect people from the incursions of others. We have failed to do that. Completely. We have failed to protect potential geirim. We have failed to protect former geirim. We have failed to protect Rabbis. We have failed to protect Klal Yisroel from having geirim that were not to speed. All by allowing EJF to continue unchecked. Rabbi Dunner addressed many of these issues. He was unfairly attacked for it.
To Rabbi Dunner and all those who praise his words.
Did you read the letter signed by the 5 Gedolai Eretz Yisroel ?
They have all praised Mr Kaplan and EJF.
Isn’t that precisely what what Rav Dunner is saying that any prestigious organization will never defend themselves, wow what hypocrisy!
#23 Nice drasha. Unfortunately for you, Rabbi Tropper was never an RCA member. He’s too Chareidi for that. In fact, he has been a vocal opponent of the RCA and its conversions. You’ll have to find a different way to try to smear the RCA.
The letter didnt praise anyone and didnt discuss EJF Raed it caarefully, it just told tom kaplan to continue his work
Since when do you need to include the London Beth Din in with the voice of the British rabonim. We’re talking Toireh athourity not the political forum.
Didn’t Rabbi Dunner blow the whistle on Indian wigs? I think this changes things a little!!
Rav Dunner presents us with a laundry list of complaints against the EJF that he couldn’t have put together in the few weeks since the scandal – the way he writes, he clearly knew of these problems all along. So why is he only speaking up now that Tropper was exposed? Hmmm…..