New York – After the horror, the disbelief, the shock, the emptiness, I next thought what many others must have.
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He had to have been a pedophile. I messaged a colleague, a respected rov, and asked what he thought. I will post it anonymously; I haven’t gotten to him yet to ask to use his name:
I am sure he was, and I am sure he molested many others, and i am sure that there were people that knew and hushed it.
It is time to forever bury the myth that reports of pedophilia can be managed and dealt with by committees of rabbonim, even for a short time. It is time to bury the myth that there is a serious halachic barrier to going to authorities to deal with credible reports of such behavior. Enough baalei halacha have told us that there is no barrier.
Choshen Mishpat 358:12 tells us that those who vex the public can be handed over. Any pedophile does at least that, and poses a danger of doing much more. Moreover, mesirah of a molester exposes him to a safek of danger; pedophiles pose a much greater danger level to many more victims.
It is natural and good that many people were not eager to rush to modes of address that themselves could be too sweeping and harsh, with terrible consequences to people and their families. They thought that various types of modus vivendi were possible. By now they should realize that this is not true. Rabbonim cannot handle the issue. We have enough evidence of this. Failure to take notice of this could have been said, figuratively, to be shefichas damim/ bloodshed.
Today, it is no longer figurative.
It is not a stain on our record that it took time to learn the facts about molestation. Reacting far too slowly is a terrible stain, though.
Leiby’s horrific petirah can save the lives of many others – those who could meet a similar fate, r”l, and those victims whose lives are a living death.
I may still be proven wrong, but the analysis will not change.
Parents will be speaking about safety to their children. Whatever really happened to Leiby, the fact is that our kids are often in far greater in school, shul and camp than from encounters with detested “others” while walking home.
The greatest aliyah for Leiby and nechamah for his family will come from all of us getting serious about molestation.
If your rov doesn’t get it, think of getting a new rov.
Rabbi Yitzchok Adlerstein is an Orthodox rabbi who has played an important role as spokesman, teacher, and writer on behalf of Orthodox Judaism.
If your rov doesn’t get it, think of getting a new rov.”
Greatest line ever, and can’t be more true. We need more Rabbis with your courage.
Cannot agree with you more. You are right on the money. It is not Mesirah when you report someone who may hurt other children. We need to get serious about this terrible issue and our Rabbonim better wake up fast.
WORNG. This is not the time to say such a pusek
Shulchan Aruch. Chosehn Mishpat, Siman Shin Pei Ches
A Yungerman told me of an eppisode that happened to him. He was at a Simcha and went to the bathroom. he was at the urinal when he heard the cry of a young boy, from the cubical, calling for his father to come clean him. This Yungerman just left the bathroom thinking to tell the father, who should be outside, that his boy was finished. But there was no father outside. So this Yungerman just left, not dearing to go back to help the boy. He felt very guilty, but he felt, that protecting the respect and well being of his own seven children comes first. Nobody wants to be accused.
Regarding our story with a kid walking down 44th street looking lost and desperate, and nobody offering any assistance, the fact is that Yungerliet avoid approaching young boys.
very well said
refreshing
wish there was more
Yishar Koach to Rabbi Yitzchok Adlerstein on this brilliant piece.
If all Rabbonim thought like him we wouldn’t be finding ourselves in the mess we are in now.
You bring out a great point. however we must be 1000% certain that the pedifile is a pedifile. In today’s day and age there are many people who cry wolf when in fact they are just trying to get back at some one. The alleged molester who indeed is innacent then is ruined for life. as a parent I wouldn’t let my children near an alleged pedifile even if he’s acquitted because I would still be peraniod. Justice isn’t always served…
It is foolish to make assumptions and rush to judgment. It seems pretty clear that the murderer has a history of psychiatric problems and there is a report that he had a serious brain injury as a child. It is way to early to try to pin blame for this on anyone other then the murderer and the Ribono shel Olam until all the facts come out. It is also a disservice to lump this psychopath together with other pedophiles. The typical pedophile is the person you would least suspect. Yes, pedophiles should be exposed and reported, but don’t use this case which is extreme and very rare to further other agendas. There are a lot of mentally unstable people in the community, but they are not going around killing and chopping up people.
Hit the nail on the head, it is so true that for long enough we have been favouring brushing these things under the carpet rather than go an report this activity to the authority’s. How many people go to the Court over a Yerusha or for money reasons. But for someone’s life, suddenly we are frum. Enough is enough.
I firmly believe abuse should NOT be covered up and reported to the Police and public and perp/perv should be ostracized from community.
That said, Why does everything have to turn into a “stop covering up abuse”?
Finally!!!
The NYPD has said there isn’t a shred of evidence that this monster was a molester.
The words of Rabbi Yitzchok Adlerstein is 100% right, and agreed, if anybody can reply how this story should be told to underagers, please do so, and is it even confirmed that leiby was molested?
Finally a voice of reason from a rabbinical authority!
Well Said!
Yasher koach, Rabbi Adlerstein. I agree 100%. But there is one qualifying word in your article which really requires definition and serious consideration. You write: “It is time to bury the myth that there is a serious halachic barrier to going to authorities to deal with credible reports of such behavior.” What constitutes “credible”? Are you prepared to say that every time a child reports such misbehavior it should immediately be reported to the authorities without further investigation? I think your inclusion of the word “credible” would make the answer – “absolutely not”! (Regardless of parents’ disclaimers [“My child would never lie”], children have been known to exaggerate.) On the other hand, how much time must we spend/waste convincing ourselves that such a report is called for when there is a real possibility that there is a rodef out there waiting for his next victim? I understand that there is no one-line answer to this, but as someone who has discussed this matter with gedolei Yisroel, your input would be most valuable.
The Police Commissioner of the New York Police Department has stated at a press conference that there was no molestation in this case. The Police Commissioner also stated that the victim and his killer never met before and didn’t know each other. The police further stated, the suspect has no previous criminal history, molestation or otherwise, other than a misdemeanor public urination ticket from a year ago.
Honestly, nothing could have been done differently in this case. This person could not have been incarcerated or even involuntarily institutionalized as he has zero history that would legally allow the authorities to do anything.
So, frankly, this case does not advance the point the author is trying to make.
“He had to have been a pedophile” – Why? Why? Why? Perhaps he was, but his actions fit the profile of a psychotic killer not a paedophile. In addition, there is no facts on the ground to suggest this, so why make this story even more horrible than it already is?
Molestation= Murder of the soul.
“I am sure he was, and I am sure he molested many others, and i am sure that there were people that knew and hushed.”
Let me say this, from all the evidence it does not look like ppl knew or we hushed about this guy, and it does not look like we could have convicted him for any serious crime, and put him in away. (usually such animals have history of many crimes, molestation, drugs, etc. He didn’t have any, I think only one small thing)
So what ur saying that we should go to the authorities regarding such ppl, this story just shows the opposite, it would not have helped one bit in this case. I’m not suggesting not to report molesters sure we must, but the only real solution is to teach ur kids not to talk to strangers, and say tehilim daven to hashem he should protect them, be urself ehrlich, live with the Torah and the rest leave to Him.
Will we be finally fingerprinting all employees of the yeshivas??
It is harrowing to see how some people use unspeakable tragedies to further their own agendas. Thus far, all the investigations haven’t turned up a SINGLE shred of evidence that this monster ever harmed a child before. There are reports that he previously attempted to lure a child into his car, but, by all indications, the reasons why he wasn’t reported to police had NOTHING to do with mesira, rabbanim hushing, etc. It may have been bad judgment or perhaps the belief that law enforcement wouldn’t take any action against him at that point, when he hadn’t physically attempted to abduct anyone. There is NO evidence or even solid claim that any Rav or askan was ever consulted on how to deal with him and told anyone to be quiet.
“I am sure he molested many others, and I am sure that there were people who knew and hushed it.”
HUH????
The liberals and the media were “sure” that Jared Loughner shot Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords because he was a conservative talk radio listener.The media and everyone else was “sure” that DSK was guilty of rape. The truth in both cases was vastly different.
When Hashem is demanding achdus, you go ahead and baselessly bash Gedolei Yisroel. Shame!
This is only another example of how out of touch the mainstream rabbinate is. Use an unrelated case to advance an agenda that should have been standard practice decades ago. And when they find out that the killer was not a molester, are they going to go back to advocating sweeping things under the carpet?
Sorry, Rabbi Adlkerstein, but you make a baseless assumption and present it to people as fact, and you do a great disservice spreading what amounts to loshon hora.
You write “He had to have been a pedophile. I am sure he was, and I am sure he molested many others, and i am sure that there were people that knew and hushed it.”
What do you have to base this on? From all published factual reports there was no sign of molestation. Why are you “sure” that he molested Leiby and others? Isn’t is it enough that this psychotic had a break from reality and acted insanely, why do you assume that this included molestation? from all reports, he did not approach lewiby, a”h. He admitted killing and butchering him, but denied vehemently that he molested him. why? to save his reputation? The only thing that indicates molestation is your “feeling”.
This is a terrible tragedy as it is. Your wild, baseless speculation making this even more horrendous for a little personal publicity is reprehensible.
I personally don’t know that Aron was inherently evil, rather that he was psychotic, a sociopath who had a very severe break with reality with tragic results. WHAT’S the Basis for your CLAIM?
Even if the child wasnt molested, Aron was trying to lure kids to him before this incidient occured according to police reports. The police should have been notified immidiately that such behavior was going on. Our whole aproach needs to be much more vigilant and proactive.
There is one question I would like to ask the public and PLEASE try to answer to yourself with EMA’S
WHY is it so. that in all our community’s we have dress and behavior codes and with respect to each community if somebody starts to dress a bit “out of the box” (and let me make this clear I am not premoting here that people should go against there community rules) but if somebody is believed by the RAV or Vadd in the Khilah that a person is “out of the box ” they will send away the kids from school. put a bad name on the family. shame the parents. and even if they try to go or move to an other place they will give bad information for the new school that they are trying to put there kids in. but when it comes to all the molesters and yes we have them in every community and YOU and I know who they are it becomes” Loshen Hora “we can not shame his kids his family WHY are the molesters not getting a least the same punishment we give for somebody that dresses “out of the box” ?????????????????????
Sweeping statements like:
“Rabbonim cannot handle the issue.”
is kfira.
Beyond that problem, jumping to conclussions and being SURE of them, when there is little evidence to support the theory, is a sign of psychosis.
Finally, leave the victim alone. Whatever was done to him was tragic. According to the laws of shmiras haloshon, it is forbidden to “believe” anything derogatory about another Jew, unless having that belief will help protect oneself. So why postulate and believe such derogatory things about the victim, being “sure” that he was abused more than the police have reported.
The Rabbi’s message may be good and appropriate, however to use the heading of “Yodeinu Shofchu Es Hadam Hazeh” Rabbi A, speak for yourself !!! how dare you condem klall yisroel before you even know facts. You as a rabbi should know better than to base facts on assumptions…..or perhaps you wanted your picture in the news like many others, looking to cash in and get their pictures in the news or take credit for various aspects of the apprehention…..
It’s better for the NYPD to be flooded with 100,000 false positives of pedophiles than to miss one real one.
The public service message you see all over stating “If You see something, Say something” applies not only to suspicious abandoned packages suspected of possibly being a bomb.
It applies to us observing or hearing about any human being suspected of being a pedophile = a human bomb threat.
My child was very frightened, but I told him that this was so rare that it happened once in 100 or more years, and probably will not happen in another 100 years. There is a greater chance of being killed by lightning, as nebech happened to two men walking home from shul a year ago.
One cannot destroy one’s child’s faith in humanity. It is important to realize that we are still a holy and kind nation, and 99.999999% of people would never do this.
Yes, one should never go anywhere with a stranger, but to forbid kids to talk to people is taking things too far.
this is the stupisest article i have ever read in my entire life… first of all wha do you know about divorce maybe it was lonliness and nothing to do with pedophilia… you are precisely the problem it is people like you that made our whole communities paranoid ad everyone is a choshud.. in lakewood they are telling people not to give choshuve yeshiva bochurim hitches to yeshiva cuz anyone can say anything…. it is cuz of people like you that the vice president of bmg can claim his about an enemy and effectively kill him and it takes a year of tha poersons life to clear it up…. yadav shofech es hadam hazeh rasha
Expect the usual politicians and talk-show hosts who always show up in front of a camera to introduce legislation and give press conferences seeking to exploit this tragedy. I won’t name any names, but its the usual suspects who cannot resist an opportunity to get publicity. Maybe, for a change, they will keep a low profile and respect the memory of the niftar.
“If your Rov doesn’t geit it, think of getting a new Rov.”
Yes. You can always get a new Rov. You can get a new Gadol, a new Yeshiva, a new moysad. Your child, however, is irreplaceable.
While we may never know if Leiby was molested, the Torah compares one who rapes to a murderer and calls him a rodef. Psychoanalyst Dr. Leonard Sheingold calls child sexual abuse “soul murder.” And while in New York State only certain professionals are mandated by law to report child abuse to the authoritirs (as opposed to New Jersey and Maryland and other states, where all adults are required to report) as Jews we answer to a Higher Authority. The Poskim have ruled that child molesters are rodfim and must be reported to the police. Not to do so is to transgress “Lo Saamod Al Dam Reyecha”.
As a psychologist who treats.children who have been abused and adult survivors of abuse, the torment that many suffer daily from their truama is very difficult.for others to understand. That is why tragically, many victims choose to suffer in silence.
For many survivors of child abuse by predators in our community, the feeling of shock and horror we all feel about Leiby’s tragic murder brings up overwhelming feelings. Suicidal ideation has been expressed to me by more than one abuse survivor.
Providing safety for children from future attacks and reaching out to victims of abuse to support them, accept them, and hear their pain are two sides of the same coin.
May we all be as united in our resolve to do all we can for this life and death issue for our children as we are now in our feelings of grief.
To the Kletzky’s, HamakomYanachem Eschem Bsoch Shaar Aveilei Tzion V’Yerushalayim.
This has nothing to do with molestAtion. This is someone who kills for the thrill.
But as someone involved in chinuch for the past 15 years, and young enough and with-it enough to know what’s going on in the world, I can tell u that the “rabbonim” are not to blame.
Families, both of victims and perpetrators, (often the same family) usually want things hushed up, for a variety of reasons.
Shame, fear of destroying the family, finger-pointing etc are part of it.
I don’t have the answer.
How do we make the issue less ‘sensitive’ without destroying our very ‘sensitivities?
i totally agree! ITS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! covering up!!! a molester kills a child emotionally and views the child as an object which thus can lead to physically killing a child! they are capable of anything!!!! a moser is someone who reports someone to the IRS for nekama not when someone reports a RODEPH- a molester who kills children every time they act…R”L!!!! how can we protect someone that is spiritually and emotionally killing innocent children??????? as a community we MUST protect our children from pedophiles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in honor of leiby’s neshama we should hang up posters of every known pedophile -even the suspected ones……
we dont know if leiby was abused….and i sincerely hope not….he suffered too much….but why was this animal taking in a little boy in his car in the first place???? major red flag!!!!! he hung around plaaygrounds?? sickening!!! the pedophiles are sick and so are the ones that choos to cover up for them and further hurt the innocent victims. we must do our share and with HaShems help may we eradicate this horrible trend in our communities. May we never hear of such tzaros! & may Leiby Z”L be a meilitz yoishe 4 us & bring mashiach!!
If it is mesirah to report, then maybe Levi Aron should still be walking the streets chas v’sholom. Wake up everybody and smell the pain in the Kletzky house. Publicize the list that shomrim has that our kids know to stay away from them and all others. There are unfortunately yiden on the predator list in all neighborhoods and it should be that way. If you did the crime do the time and stay away from our kids. May hashem protect them all.
There is no evidence that he is a pedophile. By now, someone would have come forward with a prior incident or arrest. His personal bio is not consistent with being a pedophile. He was married twice, had hundreds of attractive women a s “friends” on his facebook account, and never held a job where he would have access to children.
It is more likely that he is a psychopath, perhaps schizophrenic and delusional with previously hidden violent tendencies.Our community has little experience with people like this. His ex-wife said in Court papers that he was on medication.
We will know more when the psychiatric tests are complete, but it looks more like he was motivated by the desire to murder and dismember, than anything else.
The author of this article, a self described “important” Orthodox leader, should wait for all of the facts before he accuses all of us with such guilt.
Yodenu LO Shafchu es hadom hazeh; it was a one deranged person and a maaseh Soton.
Let’s get something straight – G-D sends tragedies to further his agendas. It is our responsibility to interperet it to the best of our knowledge. When something is so striking and so many people share the same thought, it becomes pretty clear what G-D’s agenda is.
How sad that rabbi alderstein has chosen this venue for transmitting an otherwise very important message!
The fact is, this perpetrator would not have been vetted even if rabbi alderstein’s recommendations had all been implemented!
This tragedy was so uncommon, and SOOO different than any criminal model, that it is clear to anyone with open eyes that Hashem is trying to send us a message, however it’s clearly not the message R’ Alderstein is bearing, for even if we’d heard and listened to this message before, this wouldn’t have been avoided.
What’s even more perturbing is that R’ Alderstein is implementing the methods of Korach, appealing to the masses to drum up support. If you feel you have a message to deliver, the way to do it would be to approach the Rabbinical Authorities, and have them promulgate the message, with the authority of their Daas Torah backing it up, and in the manner they see fit. To take your message on your own, to the masses, shows that you feel it wouldn’t stand up to the scrutiny of our gedolim. If you believe in your message, instead of trumpeting it for your own glory, fight the fight by getting our gedolim to promote it, if they refuse, then YOU are wrong, Not them. And it’s VIN that should get new posters, not klal yisroel that should choose new rabbonim.
The sad fact is that 75% of molestations are perpetrated by close family members and friends.
It’s very easy to jump on the bandwagon and throw a loony psychotic loner to the dogs, but who has the courage to do the same their father, or uncle or brother??
chabadsola.com had a shiur given by Rav Elchonon Tauber several months ago that has an in depth look at the dinim regarding molesters and why they have the din of rodef. The shiru is posted under Halacha Srs 02-04: A Sexual Molester has the Din of a “Rodef”.
It is so saddening that we needed Leiby a”h to be a korbon to teachus this. But the lesson couldn’t be more true.
May he be a meilitz yosher for all of us.
#49 Do you have any support to back that up?
If “our leaders” try and influence us not to moser on Molesters then these leaders have a Din Rodef, themselves.
As The President of the USA said after the Twin Towers were hit that we make no distinction between the Terrorist himself and those who harbor him and THOSE WHO PROTECT THEM (the leaders who protect them).
If any given, so called ‘Jewish Leader’ protects Molesters by trying to tell us not to report them then these so called leader has a Din Rodef himself and it’s permissible to Moser HIM, himself suing all legal means to bring him to the attention of Police.
Let all protectors of Molesters be put on notice that if they protect “them” we will go after the protector.
Chachomim, Hizaharu Bidivrechem!
Although the gist of this article is timely and important, unfortunately, it is undermined by the “I’m sure this…and I’m sure that” .
No one can be sure of anything, before we know or there is proof. At present, there is not proof of molestation. So unless the good Rabbi is a novi, that type of language strikes me as emotional rather than rational.
This is not to say that there was no molestation or planned molestation; there very well may have been. Simply, it would have been a lot more honest to say: ” it is LIKELY that there was attempted molestation or molestation” or” it is POSSIBLE that there was molestation or attempted molestation. “
Furthermore, it is very unhelpful to call a community that did everything in their power to find the boy – that galvanized in such a way that it attracted national attention – responsible for murder.
That is not responsible and very unhelpful.
Rather, we can say that there is a strong possibility that an attempted molestation was involved, and that we must resolve to do everything in our power to prevent such a tragedy from occurring again.
The police said that the second wife had an order of protection and he broke it. They were divorced. Maybe one place to start is bad divorces where women are beaten. I realize that people are ashamed to come forward but if a man can beat a woman or break an order of protection, what else can he do?? We should start an organization where everything would be kept confidential and people will not be afraid to come forward!! What do you think?? Gut shabbas!!
While much of the issue discussed is valid, I must express my revulsion at the jump to the conclusion that this “must” have been molestation. There is serious mental illness here. That is obvious. I am clueless what importance that has for the legal aspect, nor can I diagnose the illness. “Just plain nuts” is a working diagnosis. It is certainly possible that there is pedophilia here, but every angle of investigation finds no support for that. All that is accomplished by bring that element into discussion, as if it is fact, is the mud slinging that is directed at the leadership of Klal Yisroel. And that is a disgrace. The hateful messages have never saved a child. Moreover, I seriously challenge those that have dedicated themselves to this throwing of schmutz, including the many “advocates” for children as having agendas that are unrelated to child safety. They are preoccupied with degrading and defaming gedolei Yisroel. There is a time to speak about molestation, but it is dishonest and self-serving to bring that topic up here. I would hope Rabbi Adlerstein and other writers would exercise better judgment.
“If your rov doesnt get it, think of getting a new rov”
Great Idea!! Now I can do whatever I want!! I could steal from chaim yankel, and if one rov paskens that I need to give the money back, I just go to a second rov!!!!