Jerusalem – Rabbi Melamed: Mehadrin Busses Undermine Family Structure

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    Rabbi Eliezer MelamedJerusalem – In a weekly column to be published tomorrow in the Israeli newspaper Basheva, a well known halachic authority stated the there is no basis for enforcing segregation between men and women on busses. According to a report in Haaretz.

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    Rabbi Eliezer Melamed, dean of Yeshiva Har Bracha, located in Lev Hashomron, and the prominent author of the popular Peninei Halacha series, came out strongly about the importance of distinguishing between halacha and chumra.

    “There are very clear boundaries in halacha distinguishing between what is required and what is optional. When you try to obligate people to follow a custom that is laudatory but not actual halacha, you destroy the foundations of Torah and halacha.”

    According to Rabbi Melamed, enforcing separation between men and women on busses is detrimental to the family structure as men are unable to sit with their wives, fathers are unable to sit with their daughters and mothers are unable to sit with their sons. While Rabbi Melamed is in favor of segregation in public venues, he considers a bus to be a completely different circumstance.

    “It is very important not to add additional stringencies when it comes to matters of tznius,” warned Rabbi Melamed.


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    44 Comments
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    12 years ago

    Ok, a baby step in the right direction.

    CampRunamok
    CampRunamok
    12 years ago

    Prishas Derekh Eretz was one of the harms afflicted upon B’nei Yisrael by the Mitzrim.

    CountryYossi
    CountryYossi
    12 years ago

    Very interesting that the Goyim in NY when the Willansburgh-BP bus was in the papers and i was standing on 18th ave. with news reporters most said that they understand why we sit segerated and they respect the jews for folowing their segeration but Rabbi Melamed dosent understand it…Does he really NOT understand it or he needs to please some of his followers or mispalelim.?
    Its mamesh unbelievable how this world has turned around that a frum RUV can pasken this way…..

    azisvort
    azisvort
    12 years ago

    come on, i’m sorry but nothing personal,what he said made no sense.
    first of all many frum people don’t want to sit or be pushed with ladies, so give them the full respect to keep their kosher busses in their neighborhood.
    secondly, can’t a mother separate from her 11 year old son for a small bus ride?

    Yeshivish
    Yeshivish
    12 years ago

    Is everybody obligated to listen to the his psak? Absolutely not! Especially when there are so many well renowned gedolim and poskim stating otherwise.
    I suggest his talmidim should go look for mixed buses, most preferable where the women go in summer clothing (..), and those yidden that listen to the other gedolim should board the mehadrin buses.

    Yeshivish
    Yeshivish
    12 years ago

    Good chance to get head lines.. He made it.

    12 years ago

    #1 Yossi: he does understand it. He said it’s a stringency. The fact that you hold something else doesn’t mean that the “world has turned around.”
    #4 azisvort: “frum people don’t want to sit or be pushed with ladies.” Well, all the frum ladies I know are people (your sentence implies that ladies aren’t people). Also, not all bus rides are short.
    #5 Posek: So now turn your sentance around–is everyone obligated to listen to your Posek? Absolutely not.
    #6: shredready: “nonsense and not based on the Torah.” Why is it necessary to demean someone that you disagree with?
    Has V’shalom! Has the Torah shrunk and become so small that there is only one halacha, one psak, one derek? Torah is now “my way or the highway”???

    Sad

    YJay1
    YJay1
    12 years ago

    What many fail to realize (now including Rav Melamed) is that the problem is NOT segregated buses per se. These buses are used by a crowd who WANTS these buses out of their own free will. The problem is the “zealots” who seek to impose this chumrah on everyone else.

    I ride these buses every day and from my personal experience I can tell you that: 1) 95 percent of the passengers WANT this “segregation”. 2) The other 4 percent respect the 95 percent and don’t make any problems. 3) The last 1 percent don’t want to respect the 95 percent and choose to sit in the “wrong” place – but guess what, it’s their right!

    So what happens? On a typical day – nothing. On a blue day – some crazy “zealot” will come along and start screaming, make a Chilul Hashem, and ruin it for all of us. Just like the story that was printed here on VIN earlier today.

    So who is the problem? The thousands of Jews who want these buses, or the few “zealots” who make it to the headlines? Anyone who condemns these buses because of the handful of stories featuring these “zealots” are simply playing right into their hands!

    Should women stop wearing long sleeves because the “zealots” are trying to impose it on others?

    deskjockey627
    deskjockey627
    12 years ago

    I just love the way the commentors who waste their time on this website (me included) are sufficient experts in halacha to deride this rav. I would like to know what are your credentials? And don’t tell me other rabbanim have said otherwise, that gives you no grounds to challenge someone that has an well grounded alternate interpretation. Don’t follow it, but you have no right to disrespect it. The whole yiddesh world sits on mixed busses, so don’t pasul everyone just becuase someone wants to one-up in chumra land. You want tznius, ditch your mcmansions and show-off shtreimlach, that is tznius also.

    HaNavon
    HaNavon
    12 years ago

    1,4,5:

    There is absolutely no halachic basis whatsoever for forcing other people to sit seperately!

    We have a Shulchan Aruch, and it’s got all of the dinim that we need to live, don’t quote anyone who adds anything to our religion! They’re not doing k’din by saying that sitting next to a woman on a bus is assur. There is no such issur!

    Oyvey
    Oyvey
    12 years ago

    In today’s world it is rare to find a posek that differentiates between halacha and chumra..
    Unfortunately, in our chareidi community this distinction has been obliterated with so many insisting that chumra is halacha.
    Reading thsi is like breath of fresh air.

    lakewooder
    lakewooder
    12 years ago

    Which Posek says that we should have separate busses? I am not aware of any pesak in favor of segregating busses.
    On the other hand these buses are private. The history is that originally there was a private company running these lines. When Egged saw that it was profitable they used their government connections to force the company to sell it to them.
    This is a private line and the provocateurs are leidigeyers who should find jobs that enrich others’ lives instead their own 15 mins of fame. What has N.Ragen done for the world that she feels she can disparage others?

    Halaivy
    Halaivy
    12 years ago

    I keep on following these stories and realize that it’s the modern that keep on bad mouthing the chareidim and trying to impose their opinion and pesack halacha.
    The time has come to start respecting other peoples believes and if their poskim say that this is the torah says even if they are wrong they must listen to them.
    I have yet to see one single comment from a chareidy bashing the modern and would love to see the same from the modern

    Crazykanoiy
    Crazykanoiy
    12 years ago

    Yasher Koach! These so called “chumras” must stop. If buses become segregated then the next thing will be separate sidewalks and then separate stores and on and on. We have enough real Halacha issues to be makpid on and we do not need artificial chumros.

    12 years ago

    Vayigash 46:7 7. “His sons and his sons’ sons with him, his daughters and his sons’ daughters and all his descendants he brought with him to Egypt.” separate seating?

    12 years ago

    This rav is completely right. These mehadrin buses are not good for the families of klal yisrael. If a boy needs to travel with his mother or sister its forbidden. This can cause a lot of psychological and emotional issues within klal yisrael.

    Respect
    Respect
    12 years ago

    what R Melamed is saying makes sense. Mehadrin buses are a chumra or a geder. This isn’t to say that there aren’t communities who have accepted this chumra, he is just saying that stricly al pi hallacha they aren’t required.

    His other point about detriment to family structure is not a direct quote. Please be wary of any points attributed to a Rav, but interpreted by someone else.

    AviKane
    AviKane
    12 years ago

    Some food for thought. My neighbor in Kiryat Sefer says that his daughters are uncomfortable sitting in the back of the bus where the Arab workers usually sit. So one chumrah is actually causing an avlah to frum Beis Yaakov girls who feel that they’re being gawked at.

    abeee
    abeee
    12 years ago

    The psak maybe good for his shul. But the Gedolei Hador stated otherwise.
    “Yesh Darke Achrini”, if it’s possible to go a different way (a Mehadrin Bus for that matter) you have to do it. We are Frum jews ? we have to follow them. Otherwise, “Avdo B’hefkeire Nicha Lei” .

    SherryTheNoahide
    SherryTheNoahide
    12 years ago

    Sorry, but it’s SherryTheNoahide w\another question for everybody! (I always have a million of them!)

    What exactly is “Chumras”? Is that like, a “law” that is set up by a Rabbi, that really isn’t a “Law” at all? More like, a moral code that would be best to live by, so that you can remain more Holy? Or…??

    Thanks!

    Mark Levin
    Mark Levin
    12 years ago

    If these r’shoyim think by acting like unmentionable body orifices they will bring about ba’alay tshuva and Moshiach, they are sadly mistaken.

    If they have a problem with women on the busses, let them not be cheap & GO USE A CAR!